Why Can't I Get Angry at Him?

[phillygirl]

Phillygirl in this situation I choose to assume, as I was looking for extra information, which I turn got. If you read my post carefully which you clearly did not, you would have seen I apologised in advance if I was wrong. My posting style was to garner more information from the OP. Assuming in scenario's like these, is not always negative. In this situation it helped me gain a far better understanding of the OP's spouse and his/their problems.

 

I could give you the name of female posters and links to their threads, who have admitted they have emotionally checked out well in advance of a breakup, leaving their partners shocked when they leave. This is common practice amongst many women (and of course men). It's happened to me. There is no assumption there. It comes down to poor communication and a poor way of handling conflict.

 

Now I couldn't be assed going back and forth with you. I have learnt over the years if you have a personality clash with someone to just leave it be, as you can't fill a cup which is already full.

 

 

Once more, please see my previous post. Mea Culpa.

[Act Two]

 

I could give you the name of female posters and links to their threads, who have admitted they have emotionally checked out well in advance of a breakup, leaving their partners shocked when they leave. This is common practice amongst many women (and of course men). It's happened to me. There is no assumption there. It comes down to poor communication and a poor way of handling conflict.

 

I think your advice about trying MC is great. I tend to suspect though that the idea of the "Walkaway Wife" is overblown. In reality, I think there are probably many women who tell their husbands about problems in the relationships or things they would like to see change, and it isn't until they are hit with the 2 by 4 of leaving or threats to leave that they listen. Then there is shock that there was a perceived significant issue. I know this isn't always the case but seems to be a common theme in another online support group I am part of for separated/divorced women.

[Techie Artist]

Well, March 3 was the day I told him I was unhappy, and finally gave him the dreaded letter I had been composing for 6 months. Spouse is having a pity party and not setting up marital (or personal) counseling. See my thread "Anchor weighing me down" for other details. I bought him a copy of "Should I Stay or Go?" book and have asked him twice to schedule MC. He hasn't touched the book or followed thru with making an MC appointment. What ticks me off is that he's read a 500-page Star Trek novel or two since I gave him the letter!

 

He stated that he doesn't want a D, but his actions are not consistent with fighting for our marriage. If I b*tch about it, he'll do it because I'm fussing, not because he really sees the need. I'm insulted that I don't merit the fight. I am a good woman...not perfect by any stretch...but certainly a good wife. With all the neglect, I'm at the point where I CAN imagine my life without him. I've prayed, but no miracle yet. Strangest part is I can't get angry anymore. I think I've mentally moved on. Is it too late?

[TaraMaiden]

Yup.

The time for Words is long over.

the time for Action is long overdue.

 

Put your money where your mouth is.

File.

serve.

 

Then SEE what he does.....

[Techie Artist]

Yup.

The time for Words is long over.

the time for Action is long overdue.

 

Put your money where your mouth is.

File.

serve.

 

Then SEE what he does.....

 

So are you recommending I do this as a tactic to get his full attention, or do you think he's not going to do anything and I'm being too patient?

[TaraMaiden]

No, I recommend that you do this to divorce.

 

There is no ulterior motive here.

This relationship is done.

 

You can't make an adequate effort for the both of you on your own.

He is clearly set on not making any effort at all.

 

So why struggle any further?

[Gunny376]

The time to divorce? Is when you no longer feel anything, and your incapacity to feel anger is a clear sign that your "Give a Damn" meter is ON "E". Your marriage ~ relationship has reached mental-emotional atrophy.

 

You can stick around and poke it with a stick from time to time, if you like? But you're pretty much just dragging around a dead horse and saddle at this point in the game.

 

Basically the only difference between your marriage and the Titanic? The Titanic had a band playing as she went under the waves?

 

EVERYTHING in life has a beginning, middle, and end ~ your marriage has reach its end. I can say this with certainty because you've stated what you have about in inablity to feel anger. And his preference in literature is a clear sign that he's grown complacent and takes you and your marriage for granted.

 

My XHEX told me that I needed to change. My deluxe brain housing group at the time, just couldn't 'compute', (It would have helped a lot if she had spelled it out to me!) It changed me for sure and certain. Mrs. Gunny reaps the harvest from my XHEX throwing me under the bus.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Gunny376

[M30USA]

My ex wife pulled the same thing. After abusing me, instead of apologizing which is all I asked, she pulled what I call the B3 approach: bully, bluff, and bumrush. I didn't fight against the divorce. Why? I never got a simple apology for a board being swung at me 4 times in a rage. Sorry. No deal.

[Mack05]

Techie do you want the marriage saved or have you had enough? If you still want to fight (for the right reasons) you sit him down and say we are in last chance saloon. You explain he either REALLY tries to improve, or you and the kids are leaving. You state clearly the area's where you feel that he lets you down. The ask him for his opinion and listen. Hopefully you can both find a middle ground and move forward.

 

I think the 'divorce' word should ONLY be used if you are 110% sure that this is the path that you want to take. If divorce is what you want to do, then you need to just tell him. I think people should tell their spouses before serving them papers..

Edited March 18, 2013 by Mack05

[thatone]

I think your advice about trying MC is great. I tend to suspect though that the idea of the "Walkaway Wife" is overblown. In reality, I think there are probably many women who tell their husbands about problems in the relationships or things they would like to see change, and it isn't until they are hit with the 2 by 4 of leaving or threats to leave that they listen. Then there is shock that there was a perceived significant issue. I know this isn't always the case but seems to be a common theme in another online support group I am part of for separated/divorced women.

 

Not to try to derail, but this isn't the whole story.

 

Context is why the vast majority of those threats/complaints/issues/whatever you want to call them don't get taken seriously. Fact is a high number of women were never told by their parents or anyone else that they have to be able to control their emotions and express themselves rationally, so they are simply unable to do so.

 

Having her hair dryer go out and that devolve into a screaming/crying "YOU NEVER TELL ME I'M SEXY ANYMORE" over a span of about ~2 minutes is not going to get those complaints taken seriously...ever.

[Techie Artist]

No, I recommend that you do this to divorce.

 

There is no ulterior motive here.

This relationship is done.

 

You can't make an adequate effort for the both of you on your own.

He is clearly set on not making any effort at all.

 

So why struggle any further?

 

I guess I'm stunned that it's over. I am in disbelief that he could let me and our beautiful 6-year-olds just slip away! Is he stupid? Overwhelmed? Guys?!?

[Techie Artist]

My ex wife pulled the same thing. After abusing me, instead of apologizing which is all I asked, she pulled what I call the B3 approach: bully, bluff, and bumrush. I didn't fight against the divorce. Why? I never got a simple apology for a board being swung at me 4 times in a rage. Sorry. No deal.

 

We've never had any physical abuse...just words. Emotion. I would happily apologize for anything I've done to which I'm oblivious at this point. I can't imagine I've hurt him emotionally more (or deeper) than he has me. We took vows that I do honor and thought he did too. I kinda feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.

[Techie Artist]

Techie do you want the marriage saved or have you had enough? If you still want to fight (for the right reasons) you sit him down and say we are in last chance saloon. You explain he either REALLY tries to improve, or you and the kids are leaving. You state clearly the area's where you feel that he lets you down. The ask him for his opinion and listen. Hopefully you can both find a middle ground and move forward.

 

I think the 'divorce' word should ONLY be used if you are 110% sure that this is the path that you want to take. If divorce is what you want to do, then you need to just tell him. I think people should tell their spouses before serving them papers..

 

Honestly, Mack, I don't know what the right reasons are. I care about him and love him as a person who's the father of my children, but I don't have romantic feelings for him. He's abused my self esteem enough that I don't think I can get that "gooey" feeling back. I don't feel special with him. He's abysmal with money to the point of danger, so I don't trust him with finances. He's depressed and depressing. But is that enough to end a marriage? I was taught that love never fails and that God has put us together. It's hard to just walk away after such a fizz out ending. It's kinda like getting all excited for something uber special only to find out it was a dud. That disappointed feeling punctuated with a question mark.

 

I've argued, I've simmered, I've gotten logical and given him a direct letter, I've talked plainly, I've hinted. By his response of "I don't want a divorce," I can only assume he understood me. I'm so confused!

[Mack05]

I guess I'm stunned that it's over. I am in disbelief that he could let me and our beautiful 6-year-olds just slip away! Is he stupid? Overwhelmed? Guys?!?

 

Try not view this as a reflection on you. This is a man who is desperately unhappy inside. He is going further and further from 'reality' every day. I find it incredibly sad that he has let it get this far.

 

This is as serious a scenario as I have ever encountered on Loveshack. This man is in grave danger. His depression and self loathing is so bad, I would seriously worry about suicide. If not suicide, then he is a heart attack waiting to happen. I understand just how dramatic a statement this is but I honestly feel this is as serious as it gets.

 

He is suffering from severe depression. To say he is not thinking clearly is an understatement. I know it must hurt that it seems he wants to give up. The sad thing is that this is bigger then giving up on a marriage. This man has given up on himself. Therefore its impossible to have a happy relationship. Unless he gets serious help NOW this will get worse and worse. His abuse of your self esteem, is him reflecting his self loathing onto you.

 

He has to want to help himself.For me getting this guy the help he desperately needs, is more important the marriage right now. You have been incredible to stay as long as you have. I wish I had a wife like you. Seriously. You have shown amazing loyalty. Most women would have left.

 

I'm not sure the marriage can be saved. That will be up to you two. I am sure if he doesn't get the help he needs NOW then your kids could conceivably grow up without a father. I would ring some advice lines specializing in depression. I would talk to his family. I would talk to a therapist. You need to get this man into therapy. You need to get this man caring about himself again. He has to want to lose this weight. He has to want to get his life back. Right now he has closed himself off from the world. This is code red when this happens.

 

You are thinking why doesn't he want me or the kids. God knows what he is thinking. Leaving him will just cause the spiral to go more and more out of control OR it could be the thing that's needed to snap him out of this funk. For me the situation is to precarious to just suddenly leave. It's time to have the heart to hearts to end all heart to hearts. I just hope he breaks down and lets you in..

[M30USA]

Are you saying that her STBXH is in grave danger merely because he pulled away and is not communicating?

[Mack05]

Are you saying that her STBXH is in grave danger merely because he pulled away and is not communicating?

 

M30usa read her first thread. Her husband is dangerously obsese. He is 500 pounds. He doesn't leave the house anymore and can't hold down a job. He is avoiding dealing with the marriage problems because he can't confront the self loathing he feels inside. This is a man who has avoided all his problems/emotions and has gone so far down the wrong path that now his life is in danger and is on the verge of losing the things that matter the most in the world to him.

[Techie Artist]

Try not view this as a reflection on you. This is a man who is desperately unhappy inside. He is going further and further from 'reality' every day. I find it incredibly sad that he has let it get this far.

 

This is as serious a scenario as I have ever encountered on Loveshack. This man is in grave danger. His depression and self loathing is so bad, I would seriously worry about suicide. If not suicide, then he is a heart attack waiting to happen. I understand just how dramatic a statement this is but I honestly feel this is as serious as it gets.

 

He is suffering from severe depression. To say he is not thinking clearly is an understatement. I know it must hurt that it seems he wants to give up. The sad thing is that this is bigger then giving up on a marriage. This man has given up on himself. Therefore its impossible to have a happy relationship. Unless he gets serious help NOW this will get worse and worse. His abuse of your self esteem, is him reflecting his self loathing onto you.

 

He has to want to help himself.For me getting this guy the help he desperately needs, is more important the marriage right now. You have been incredible to stay as long as you have. I wish I had a wife like you. Seriously. You have shown amazing loyalty. Most women would have left.

 

I'm not sure the marriage can be saved. That will be up to you two. I am sure if he doesn't get the help he needs NOW then your kids could conceivably grow up without a father. I would ring some advice lines specializing in depression. I would talk to his family. I would talk to a therapist. You need to get this man into therapy. You need to get this man caring about himself again. He has to want to lose this weight. He has to want to get his life back. Right now he has closed himself off from the world. This is code red when this happens.

 

You are thinking why doesn't he want me or the kids. God knows what he is thinking. Leaving him will just cause the spiral to go more and more out of control OR it could be the thing that's needed to snap him out of this funk. For me the situation is to precarious to just suddenly leave. It's time to have the heart to hearts to end all heart to hearts. I just hope he breaks down and lets you in..

 

As I read your comments, Mack, I winced, I smiled, and I nodded. You're absolutely 100% correct. I can't think of any area where you're incorrect, except that I don't think he'll kill himself outright...he'll eat and isolate himself to death.

 

I have fought a good fight, and this is the final uppercut to smack some sense into him or it's the exhaustion knockout. The part that I'll continue to present in individual couseling (IC) is my feeling of inadequacy. I hear you, tho. It is not humanly possible for me to "fix" him. I also feel badly that I am exhausted toward my marriage. There's guilt there, but it's coming from a place of self preservation rather than loathing. What a sad state of affairs!

 

I'm going to ask the kids' godmother to get the kids so I can have this talk. I just feel like a jerk to kick the man when he's down. If I put him out, he has nowhere to go. No job. No money. No car. No healthcare.

 

Phillygirl called me his sugart*t. So am I enabling him if I continue to cover his counseling and living expenses? Am I within my rights to emotionally separate? I need a pass to freedom. I need to not look at him. I need fun and engaging conversation. I need love and tenderness. Most of all, I need peace.

[Mack05]

As I read your comments, Mack, I winced, I smiled, and I nodded. You're absolutely 100% correct. I can't think of any area where you're incorrect, except that I don't think he'll kill himself outright...he'll eat and isolate himself to death.

 

I have fought a good fight, and this is the final uppercut to smack some sense into him or it's the exhaustion knockout. The part that I'll continue to present in individual couseling (IC) is my feeling of inadequacy. I hear you, tho. It is not humanly possible for me to "fix" him. I also feel badly that I am exhausted toward my marriage. There's guilt there, but it's coming from a place of self preservation rather than loathing. What a sad state of affairs!

 

I'm going to ask the kids' godmother to get the kids so I can have this talk. I just feel like a jerk to kick the man when he's down. If I put him out, he has nowhere to go. No job. No money. No car. No healthcare.

 

Phillygirl called me his sugart*t. So am I enabling him if I continue to cover his counseling and living expenses? Am I within my rights to emotionally separate? I need a pass to freedom. I need to not look at him. I need fun and engaging conversation. I need love and tenderness. Most of all, I need peace.

 

What a great person you really are. One of my favourites that I have encountered on this site. You are all heart. To still be thinking about him when you feel so sad is really something. Can I ask Techie are you codependent? A great book on Codependency is Codependent no more by Melody Beattie. Another great book is called 'The Enabler' which I think would really help you. You can get them both on Amazon.

 

Try not to look at it as kicking him when he is down. It simply can't go on like this. He will suck all the energy that you have left. He will bring you further and further down. He will make you more and more sad and this will end up hugely effecting your kids.

 

You have to do right by you and the kids. I keep saying this, but he has to want to help himself. If he does not want to, then it is not your responsibility. You have already suffered enough. To say he has been grossly unfair to you is an understatement.

 

A marriage is a partnership. It's a team effort. Ok some days, weeks, (worst case scenarios months) its not 50/50 split. Sometimes one partner has to be strong for the other, but this shouldn't be a long term thing. When one partner offers little to the marriage, how on earth can it survive? Like a plant without water it will die.

 

Let us know how this talk goes. I wish you well..I just hope something triggers in him. You will be in my prayers tonight.

[Techie Artist]

What a great person you really are. One of my favourites that I have encountered on this site. You are all heart. To still be thinking about him when you feel so sad is really something. Can I ask Techie are you codependent? A great book on Codependency is Codependent no more by Melody Beattie. Another great book is called 'The Enabler' which I think would really help you. You can get them both on Amazon.

 

Let us know how this talk goes. I wish you well..I just hope something triggers in him. You will be in my prayers tonight.

 

First, thank you for your kindness and directness. I really appreciate your contributions to my threads. I consider you a new friend...especially one who says a prayer on my little behalf.

 

So, I had to look up the definition of "codependency" to be able to answer your question. I do not think I'm codependent. To use your metaphor, I have been dying on the vine for some time now, and I have to replant myself in better soil. I'm fully conscious that I need to preserve myself. If I don't take care of myself, no one will be able to step in and care for my children like I would. Plus, I deserve better than I've received. I'm not saying that I'm entitled to some fairy tale, but I'm a good woman who should get as good as she gives.

 

I think I'm simply afraid. I fear all the damage and loss of a divorce, but I do know that I'll be happier without him in this dangerous condition. I am a black American, so I have a little baggage when it comes to the plight of the black male (spouse) and how hard it is for them in these times. I fear that my children will hate me if we can't amicably find a way to get him to leave. I fear "being divorced" to some extent...like how a perfectly good Whopper must feel when dropped on the ground. And I do fear that he self destructs with no one in the world to support him. Tragic. I fear the logistics of working, schooling kids, weekend visits. I fear the what ifs and the what could've beens. I don't want regrets.

 

However, I can imagine being healthier, happier, having no stress from finances, feeling appreciated, finding a new love that brings passion and companionship, spending time with others with whom I have things in common, traveling again...woosah! Sounds like fun!

[imtooconfused]

Not to try to derail, but this isn't the whole story.

 

Context is why the vast majority of those threats/complaints/issues/whatever you want to call them don't get taken seriously. Fact is a high number of women were never told by their parents or anyone else that they have to be able to control their emotions and express themselves rationally, so they are simply unable to do so.

 

Having her hair dryer go out and that devolve into a screaming/crying "YOU NEVER TELL ME I'M SEXY ANYMORE" over a span of about ~2 minutes is not going to get those complaints taken seriously...ever.

 

She's overly emotional, and that's a reason to not take her seriously?

[Act Two]

Not to try to derail, but this isn't the whole story.

 

Context is why the vast majority of those threats/complaints/issues/whatever you want to call them don't get taken seriously. Fact is a high number of women were never told by their parents or anyone else that they have to be able to control their emotions and express themselves rationally, so they are simply unable to do so.

 

Having her hair dryer go out and that devolve into a screaming/crying "YOU NEVER TELL ME I'M SEXY ANYMORE" over a span of about ~2 minutes is not going to get those complaints taken seriously...ever.

 

That post is so offensive. Do you really just assume that most or all women in unhappy marriages or with marital problems are too emotional and do not know how to express themselves rationally?

 

I'm sure that mindset about women works wonders with them!

[imtooconfused]

My post is not directed at the person who posted this but rather at someone who stumbles upon this thread who has experienced the following. Thinking more about that post makes me want to clarify:

 

Having her hair dryer go out and that devolve into a screaming/crying "YOU NEVER TELL ME I'M SEXY ANYMORE" over a span of about ~2 minutes

 

If you have experienced this, you have to understand that in the hypothetical example above the emotion directed towards the hair dryer had very little to do with the hair dryer going out and everything to do with not being appreciated. I am sure a woman in that situation would be able to cope with the hair dryer, but when that happens while she is fussing over her relationship and her feelings of that being taken for granted, it's sometimes impossible to deal with even the most trivial problems. The fixing her hair would have been an attempt to try to look good for her husband in the first place. This is not just a "woman thing" as it could have to do with a bolt getting stuck during a car repair or some other trivial "guy problem." Recently, I reacted in an uncharacteristic way that had nothing to do with the question at hand and had everything to do with how I felt about the relationship. I guess that makes me hot headed, but if the relationship were stable, I would have no reason to explode.

 

My experience is that when someone shows a disproportional emotional reaction to something, it almost always means some other emotional crisis is at play below the surface. The more unusual the reaction, expect that the crisis to be more serious. So if you do come across such a situation, it would be wise to ask "what's really bothering you" rather than accuse that person as being too emotional.

[Techie Artist]

So, I laid down the gauntlet. Guess what I got back? One upsmanship.

 

I said, "I've been unhappy for a while..." He said, "It's been 5 years." He said that I've ignored him and he's been holding it all in all this time. I'm not blameless in whatever is unsavory between us, but is he really trying to outdo me? Is this a defense mechanism?

[TaraMaiden]

Yup.

 

Honey, quit 'telling'.

 

Start 'showing'.

[Mack05]

So, I laid down the gauntlet. Guess what I got back? One upsmanship.

 

I said, "I've been unhappy for a while..." He said, "It's been 5 years." He said that I've ignored him and he's been holding it all in all this time. I'm not blameless in whatever is unsavory between us, but is he really trying to outdo me? Is this a defense mechanism?

 

Techie, I will let you in on a secret. I had a big problem with depression. Thankfully I have come out of it, but my god its been hard and I know just how tough it will be for your husband to beat his demons. In fact I believe only a fully committed spouse could go through the various ups and downs ahead. That commitment would need to be incredible on your part, cause he has already sucked so much out of you.

 

My family and friends tried to help me with my battle against depression. To combat this 'help' that I never felt I needed, my defence mechanisms become more and more clever. I was a proud man. I was a strong man. This offer of 'help' was insulting to me. I was living in the past though, or dreaming of a happy future. Not in the here and now.

 

I would turn the blame onto them, when there was any kind of confrontation. The thing is, I was never a cynical or a manipulative person. I genuinely believed my family, my ex's, my friends were the problem. Not me. Honestly I wasn't living in the real world. It's hard to explain to someone that hasn't suffered from depression.

 

I think he genuinely believes what he is saying to you. It just means that he is going further and further away from reality each and every day. The saying you have to want to help yourself, goes deeper then maybe you fully understand. If you genuinely don't believe you are the problem, how can you help yourself?

 

Sadly unless he snaps out of this desperate funk that he is in, I feel there is only one option for you and the kids...

Edited March 19, 2013 by Mack05