Why Can't I Get Angry at Him?

[Techie Artist]

Techie, I will let you in on a secret. I had a big problem with depression. Thankfully I have come out of it, but my god its been hard and I know just how tough it will be for your husband to beat his demons. In fact I believe only a fully committed spouse could go through the various ups and downs ahead. That commitment would need to be incredible on your part, cause he has already sucked so much out of you.

 

My family and friends tried to help me with my battle against depression. To combat this 'help' that I never felt I needed, my defence mechanisms become more and more clever. I was a proud man. I was a strong man. This offer of 'help' was insulting to me. I was living in the past though, or dreaming of a happy future. Not in the here and now.

 

I would turn the blame onto them, when there was any kind of confrontation. The thing is, I was never a cynical or a manipulative person. I genuinely believed my family, my ex's, my friends were the problem. Not me. Honestly I wasn't living in the real world. It's hard to explain to someone that hasn't suffered from depression.

 

I think he genuinely believes what he is saying to you. It just means that he is going further and further away from reality each and every day. The saying you have to want to help yourself, goes deeper then maybe you fully understand. If you genuinely don't believe you are the problem, how can you help yourself?

 

Sadly unless he snaps out of this desperate funk that he is in, I feel there is only one option for you and the kids...

 

Thanks for sharing that insight with me, Mack. I get it. I'm done being so committed that I'm being stupid. He made the MC appointment under duress, but my hopes are not high. He's dashed them with depression wrapped up in pride to form daggers at me.

[Techie Artist]

Yup.

 

Honey, quit 'telling'.

 

Start 'showing'.

 

So, Tara, you have been consistent in your advice. What is your take on marriage and the terms on which divorce is tolerable or acceptable?

[happykat]

The time to divorce? Is when you no longer feel anything, and your incapacity to feel anger is a clear sign that your "Give a Damn" meter is ON "E". Your marriage ~ relationship has reached mental-emotional atrophy.

 

I completely agree with this. Personally, I knew it was time to leave not because I found that my spouse was looking elsewhere, but because I didn't care that he was. In fact, I was secretly hoping that he WOULD find someone else and leave, because being the one to end the marriage was so difficult. But once faced with those facts, I couldn't waste anymore time of my life on it.

[TaraMaiden]

So, Tara, you have been consistent in your advice. What is your take on marriage and the terms on which divorce is tolerable or acceptable?

 

A marriage is essentially, a business partnership.

It is a contract between two people, usually pre-emptively agreed upon when an engagement occurs, and cemented in Law, when the actual ceremony takes place.

In may countries, a church wedding by itself is not adequately binding; in France and Italy, for sure, a Civil ceremony is also necessary.

So we can see that it is an official binding agreement.

 

of course, there is romance, love, the wedding day itself, the joy, the flowers, the confetti, the tears of happiness... all the usual regalia associated with the day everyone hopes will signal the 'Happy ever After'....

 

What an awful lot of people forget, is that a wedding is not the culmination and climax of the relationship: A wedding is a sign that the hard work of building a marriage, starts here.

 

A Relationship is a 50/50 responsibility thing, and both partners are 100% responsible for the care, maintenance, polishing and upkeep of their part. There is no imbalance here, just as there cannot be only one member in a relationship of two. It's clean down the middle...

 

Please note: 'Responsibility' is different to 'blame'.....Blame can be massively disproportional.

 

You have to establish effective communication to discuss what exactly broke the relationship.

You both have to own your parts, and you both have to take responsibility, and you both have to work damn hard to modify and repair and make good whatever went wrong.

 

Remember:

"Finding" the problem isn't the hard work.

 

Fixing the problem, once you've found it - is when the hard work begins.

 

And you have to both want to work equally hard.

 

You have to both want this relationship to succeed , to the same level.

If you're in it 100% of your 50% - but he's only in at 60%... you can't make up the 40% shortfall on his half.

That's not co-operation on both your parts - that's the 'one' desperately seeking to make up the imbalance - for two.

 

It can't be done.

 

And as I see it, you should be done - being done.

[Techie Artist]

A marriage is essentially, a business partnership.

It is a contract between two people, usually pre-emptively agreed upon when an engagement occurs, and cemented in Law, when the actual ceremony takes place.

In may countries, a church wedding by itself is not adequately binding; in France and Italy, for sure, a Civil ceremony is also necessary.

So we can see that it is an official binding agreement.

 

Tara, thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I appreciate and respect what you've stated as it relates to the human condition and societal expectations. However, I have beliefs that go deeper. So I don't mean to pry, but I don't know whether you believe as I do that a man and a woman become one when married before God. There was a covenant. I do believe that our covenant has been broken between each other, but there is an expectation that God bridges the brokenness.

 

Now, this is blasphemy where I come from, but I'm doubting (based on what I have experienced) just how engaged God is in our lives. It's called a crisis of faith.

[TaraMaiden]

.... I don't know whether you believe as I do that a man and a woman become one when married before God. There was a covenant. I do believe that our covenant has been broken between each other, but there is an expectation that God bridges the brokenness.

 

With the greatest of respect, that's a load of BS.

 

Like I said, in some countries, a 'marriage before God' doesn't mean diddly-squat - National Law over-rides such Patriarch-imposed, so-called 'sanctity'.

I had a civil wedding as neither my H or I are Christians.

 

Historically speaking, a marriage between two families was originally a business transaction designed to perpetuate the combined wealth of two families, unite them in strength as land and property owners, and increase heir productivity. Wives were expected without question to be faithful to their husbands and were viewed as goods and chattels - after all, they also came with a dowry. (this is why traditionally, the Bride's family would be the ones to foot the wedding day bill.) They were given away by their fathers as merchandise. The engagement ring, such a romantic and precious gesture, was actually a mark of promise. A forfeit to would be payable to the would-be groom's family, if the marriage did not take place.

No such forfeit was due to the prospective brides, although they got to keep the ring. A husband had no obligation to remain faithful to his wife - UNTIL the church, seeing that marriages could qualify as 'nice little earners' got in on the act.

Too many bastards were being born, therefore the Church imposed a sanctity upon the union of man and woman, and began to charge fees for conducting ceremonies.

Which is why, once the church took over, recorded and official marriages only occurred in the upper classes.

 

Now, this is blasphemy where I come from, but I'm doubting (based on what I have experienced) just how engaged God is in our lives. It's called a crisis of faith.

 

If you had any notion of how many good "God-Fearing Christians" get divorced every year, without such qualms, I would say you have nothing to worry about.

 

Please don't allow something unseen to grip control over your own future happiness.

 

Sometimes, some things just don't work out.

I very much doubt God will seek you out for punishment in this case.

I think if he exists, he probably has more pressing matters to consider.

This is hardly earth-shattering in comparison to other issues.

[Techie Artist]

Historically speaking, a marriage between two families was originally a business transaction designed to perpetuate the combined wealth of two families, unite them in strength as land and property owners, and increase heir productivity. Wives were expected without question to be faithful to their husbands and were viewed as goods and chattels - after all, they also came with a dowry. (this is why traditionally, the Bride's family would be the ones to foot the wedding day bill.) They were given away by their fathers as merchandise. The engagement ring, such a romantic and precious gesture, was actually a mark of promise. A forfeit to would be payable to the would-be groom's family, if the marriage did not take place.

No such forfeit was due to the prospective brides, although they got to keep the ring. A husband had no obligation to remain faithful to his wife - UNTIL the church, seeing that marriages could qualify as 'nice little earners' got in on the act.

Too many bastards were being born, therefore the Church imposed a sanctity upon the union of man and woman, and began to charge fees for conducting ceremonies.

Which is why, once the church took over, recorded and official marriages only occurred in the upper classes.

 

I knew a lot of this, but in my heart when I got married I believed in my vow. It seems a little "indian giver" to retract it when it was already given. I guess I need to acknowledge that I'm being manipulated by religion in this regard and just focus on my personal relationship with God to drive my actions.

[TaraMaiden]

There are two massive angles which are frequently used to manipulate and govern what people are, think and do.

 

One is the notion of War.

The other is the notion of God.

 

The Militia, and the Church, have for centuries been the two main power-houses by which the populace is controlled.

A massive amount of the National Purse goes towards maintaining an armed force - which we are assured, on a daily basis, is an absolute essential for defence and safety.

And the Church wields a different, but almighty power, with a huge impact of its own.....

 

If you were to take a cross-section of Christians, from different denominations, from Catholics to Quakers, every one of them would give you an interpretation of what 'God' means to them.

 

And they'd all be different.

But you know what?

They'd all be right.

 

Because every Christian I've ever known has their own specific relationship with God.

You have to separate what "Church" says God is, thinks and does, and what "Techie Artist" says God is, thinks and does.

 

Only you have your own personal relationship with he whom you personally call God.

And if I'm blunt, this is what you have to decide:

Are you going to let outside forces and influential religious voices tll you how you ought to react, or are you going to listen to the 'still small voice' within your heart, and go with that?

 

Because if Reason prevails, you will know this is a done deal.

 

If 'Church' prevails - then you might as well give up posting and complaining, put your shoulder to the boulder, and keep on keeping on, the way you have been.

 

Which, for your ultimate peace of mind, personal happiness and contentment - would YOU prefer to do?

[Midwestmom12]

Techie,

 

Like you I am an African American woman. I am in the process of divorcing my husband. We have been together 7 1/2 years and have a 5 year old son. Like you I struggled with my decision. I didn't want to hurt my son. I didn't want to be a statistic. I don't want my son to be a statistic but I knew I could no longer carry the weight of the marriage on my shoulders.

 

My STBXH has always been irresponsible with finances. He drinks. He blames me for everything. Struggled to keep a job. I can go on. Our marriage counselor believes he has NPD and that I am his codependent. I agree with her. Divorcing him isn't easy for me but I feel healthier and happier now that has moved out. Dealing with my sons emotions is the hard part but it is still easier than carrying an adult who should be doing his part.

 

Your husband has to want to change. Don't be scared. Forget the what if's and know it's ok to choose yourself.

[thefooloftheyear]

These are the reasons I always believed that a marriage should be a renewable contract. Like a driver's license. Maybe every four years.

 

OP. I understand your issue ALL too well. I lived it for many years and because of GUILT (for her AND my kid), I bit my tongue and trudged my way through a miserable existence. Then I had an awakening...One person cannot bear this load. I tried EVERYTHING.

 

Bottom line is this. There is only one life to live and each day is a gift. You can get killed in a car wreck or contract some form of a disease. Heck, I lost a good friend in a matter of months at age 49 from Pancreatic Cancer. 8 weeks and he was finished. Give it an opportunity and if you get no help or you get stonewalled, then you have no options. I respect your faith and beliefs and they are honorable, but you cannot sacrifice yourself for someone else. Its that simple.

 

If you want to relieve your guilt, you do realize that in many states divorces can be rescinded. Sometimes it takes some major event like this to make people realize that they have to work at it. I have heard of successful reconciliations this way, albeit they are rare...

 

I wish you the best.

 

TFOY

[Techie Artist]

Then I had an awakening...One person cannot bear this load. I tried EVERYTHING.

 

Bottom line is this. There is only one life to live and each day is a gift.

... you cannot sacrifice yourself for someone else. Its that simple.

 

If you want to relieve your guilt, you do realize that in many states divorces can be rescinded.

TFOY

 

TFOY, thanks for your comments. I am going to look into the rescinding of divorce...was not aware of it.

 

Latest update: husband read the book (finished yesterday) and doesn't want to talk about it. I'll bug him. It's been 6 weeks since my formal declaration of wanting counseling and 4 weeks Wednesday since the letter expressing my feelings.

 

He has been keeping house better, and speaking with civility, but he's dropping comments like "if this doesn't work out" kinds of stuff. I think he knows deep inside that we're over, too. If he does come to this realization, then perhaps our separation/divorce will be amicable.

[amaysngrace]

Have you gone to marriage counseling at all?

 

I would strongly recommend doing that before you think any more about a divorce.

 

Maybe you just need a vacation alone with him?

 

Also too, before you go file for a divorce, see what he thinks about going down to your local courthouse together so you can file it civilly. It may just open up the conversation that is long overdue.

[Techie Artist]

No, Amays. No counseling. He's resisting. At this point, I just don't want to keep waiting around for him to decide he wants to do something. He's lazy, depressed, and depressing. I am miserable!

 

I have a family vacation coming up that I started planning a year ago. On my grace and generosity, he'll be there, since this is for the kids. I would feel bad to leave him home, and the kids would be missing him the whole time. As for some vacation between us, I don't see it. The thought of him is a turnoff. Even when we're talking about the things we must, he disgusts me and it takes everything within me to remain civil.

 

This is what goes thru my head:

I gave him money to go grocery shopping. I told him it would be helpful if he would coupon. Nope...didn't do it. I am currently trying to turn down all our services and get rid of cell phones. Cable is about to be dropped. I asked him to find a better cell and cable plan 2 months ago. Nope...didn't do it. If I had asked him to spend money, it would've been spent!

 

I don't love him anymore. I only care about him in relation to our kids. If he disappeared tomorrow, I'd cry for my kids...not myself.

[Mack05]

You do realise Techie staying in a loveless marriage will damage the kids more longterm. I really don't like your strategy here..

 

"The good news is you are coming on holiday, the bad news is I don't love you anymore and I want a divorce". The more indecision you show the harder this will all be (for everyone)

[Techie Artist]

Hi, Mack and supporters! Yes, I do realize that staying is bad. I go to IC Friday. I'll ask for recommendations for a D attorney. I have a lot of assets that I need to protect, so that's why I've tolerated the slow pace. I'll be damned he has me paying alimony when he's perfectly capable of taking care of himself...even if he's not currently employed.

 

I am strategizing, calculating, planning, and fact checking. I've got to protect what's rightfully mine and the kids'. Remember, this is a guy who took the kids' money.

[Techie Artist]

So, my counselor gave me names of tough attorneys to contact. I've been out of town for work, so I'm back now and will call for appointments tomorrow. Some interesting developments:

 

Husband has been mellow, friendly, and on best behavior. He's been getting a lot of rejection letters, and I know he wants to give up. I feel bad dropping it on him that I want a D.

 

Our vacation is coming. He finished a contract job I got for him and will get paid next week. I suggested that he keep the $ in his pocket to help relieve the pressure of him being around my family and obviously mooching from me. Why am I considering his dignity? I think it's for the sake of the kids.

 

Went to a funeral in Feb. Saw xBF from 13 years ago who left our relationship for mature reasons (to take care of dying mother out of state). We've reconnected as friends, but we had an unresolved ending well before my marriage. Wanting closure, last weekend I met xBF, told him how I felt when he didn't return to me. He apologized. Now I'm feeling attracted to him, and he acknowledged the rumors amongst our mutual friends that I was "the one that got away." I kinda feel like I want to give us another chance.

 

I am careful not to put my emotional eggs in his basket. I did tell him I was in a bad relationship heading toward D. He seemed interested to wait, but is encouraging me to try everything to save the M. Obviously, my feelings for him are still there, but I question myself too.

 

What's hard is that I haven't felt wanted by my H in so long that it makes this little bit of attention so interesting. I feel more like I want the D because I have a perceived safety net in my xBF. However, I'm aware that this is an illusion. But...what if we really were meant to be together? How do I nurture that relationship during a lengthy D? I don't want to start an affair, but he really sparked my interest.

[TaraMaiden]

Dangerous territory, as I'm sure you're aware....

 

This has the potential to put some of your ideology firmly on its head...

 

See the Lawyer first.

 

File for D.

 

THEN - tell him.

 

See what his response is.....

[Techie Artist]

Status update: Hello, everyone. I'm back from vacation.

 

Background: I helped my 3-years-out-of-work spouse obtain a contract job that paid $500 about 4 weeks ago. We talked about his keeping the money so he could feel good about himself while we were on a family vacation last week. Short version, because I left my credit card at home, I asked him for some cash until my replacement card arrived...$50. He gave it to me, but asked for it back by end of 1-week vacation in order to pay for airport parking.

 

So, I am trying to figure out where the $500 went. For those who don't know my story, I am currently paying for everything...house, car, food, etc. He has no expense. I also checked the joint bank account and there is no deposit in the $500-ish amount. He must have another account or cashed the whole thing.

 

I already asked for counseling and he refused. I told him I wanted him out, and he refused. Do you think he spent it or is stashing it away?

 

BTW, we were civil toward each other, but there is absolutely nothing between us anymore other than our kids. So sad.

[Keenly]

Wait... I thought you told him he could keep the money.

[Techie Artist]

Yes, I did. The point is that we agreed that since he's feeling like such a loser, I would cover the major trip expenses. All he would have to do is help make the vacation memorable for the kids. He could pretend in front of the family that he had his own cash.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Techie Artist
typo

[Shocked Suzie]

Status update: Hello, everyone. I'm back from vacation.

 

Background: I helped my 3-years-out-of-work spouse obtain a contract job that paid $500 about 4 weeks ago. We talked about his keeping the money so he could feel good about himself while we were on a family vacation last week. Short version, because I left my credit card at home, I asked him for some cash until my replacement card arrived...$50. He gave it to me, but asked for it back by end of 1-week vacation in order to pay for airport parking.

 

So, I am trying to figure out where the $500 went. For those who don't know my story, I am currently paying for everything...house, car, food, etc. He has no expense. I also checked the joint bank account and there is no deposit in the $500-ish amount. He must have another account or cashed the whole thing.

 

I already asked for counseling and he refused. I told him I wanted him out, and he refused. Do you think he spent it or is stashing it away?

 

BTW, we were civil toward each other, but there is absolutely nothing between us anymore other than our kids. So sad.

 

Under the circumstances if he has stashed or spent it, that's pretty unfair! But it seems that if there is no bank deposit then that's what has happened...would you ask him?

 

Why doesn't he want to try counseling?

 

SS x

[TaraMaiden]

He's not playing ball, but still pulling strings and controlling the rules.

He won't go to Counselling.

you won't file for divorce.

 

The more you 'feed' this guy safety lines, the more he will make you dance.

 

If you want out, show him by your actions, that you ARE out.

Consider yourself 'Divorced'.

 

And treat him like a house-guest you don't know very well.

Don't give him any leeway.

Or else you will just keep giving, and - well, guess what....?

 

Honestly, TA.....

[Shocked Suzie]

He's not playing ball, but still pulling strings and controlling the rules.

He won't go to Counselling.

you won't file for divorce.

 

The more you 'feed' this guy safety lines, the more he will make you dance.

 

If you want out, show him by your actions, that you ARE out.

Consider yourself 'Divorced'.

 

And treat him like a house-guest you don't know very well.

Don't give him any leeway.

Or else you will just keep giving, and - well, guess what....?

 

Honestly, TA.....

 

 

Think you've hit the nail on the head! Seems maybe to be pulling all the strings

[2sunny]

Yes, I did. The point is that we agreed that since he's feeling like such a loser, I would cover the major trip expenses. All he would have to do is help make the vacation memorable for the kids. He could pretend in front of the family that he had his own cash.

 

You've removed him from being the man.

 

You set the rules. He follows your rules - you get mad he follows yours rules.

 

He's mooching off you - I get that. But you allow it by not divorcing him.

 

It's obvious you need to be in charge.

 

I would find any M that far out of balance very unappealing.

[Techie Artist]

He's not playing ball, but still pulling strings and controlling the rules.

He won't go to Counselling.

you won't file for divorce.

 

The more you 'feed' this guy safety lines, the more he will make you dance.

 

If you want out, show him by your actions, that you ARE out.

Consider yourself 'Divorced'.

 

And treat him like a house-guest you don't know very well.

Don't give him any leeway.

Or else you will just keep giving, and - well, guess what....?

 

Honestly, TA.....

 

Tara, I am in the process of filing. I have collected all financial records and completed the state paperwork. I have consulted with one attorney and have two others to interview. I'm not sure about chicken/egg kinds of things like: Do I file first, then tell him? Do I tell him I'm about to file? When/where do I inform him? Also note that things like our car insurance cannot be changed without them notifying him. I don't want to tip my hand yet, but I've lined up all the businesses and services that will need quick changeover.

 

What I was trying to do was give him a chance to show some glimmer of maturity. No matter our marital situation, I'll still be dealing with him as father of our children. Now I can clearly see he's just not going to change and I'm doing myself a disservice by prolonging it any further.

 

No, Susie, I don't even want to ask him. I'm in disbelief. If he cashed the check yet had no significant amount on vacation, he must have it stashed or has spent it. This means he's still spending every dime like a child, or he's planning on being out of the house at some point anyway.

 

*sigh*