Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I certainly many in my marriage, which I think is pretty good..... Five to be exact, and it gets worse year after year.... And yes there are more...... Thoughts? From Yahoo Here, marriage experts share some of the most common reasons husbands resent their wives and how to protect your relationship. Photo by Getty Images. 1. Not fighting fair. Happy couples don't necessarily fight less, Dr. Navarra says; they just fight better, by "describing their own feelings and needs rather than labeling their partner as faulty." And the ball is probably in your court for that. Research shows that wives are more likely to bring up problems for discussion, while husbands are more likely to withdraw at the first sign of an argument. When this keeps happening, women tend to start conversations on a negative note, which only makes things worse. Instead of resorting to personal attacks-"You're such a slob!" "We're going to be late because of you!"-which lead to defensiveness, Dr. Navarra recommends sticking to "I-statements," such as "When (this happens), I feel (frustrated, angry). What I needed was..." Related: Discover 9 fights you should have with your husband. 2. Treating him like a child. "A big issue I see in couples is a man resenting his partner because he feels she talks down to him," says Mary Kelleher, LMFT. This can leave him feeling "less-than," and nothing triggers resentment faster than inadequacy. So avoid threatening his independence-the way pressuring him to go for a promotion so he'll bring home more money may be perceived-suggests couples therapist Vagdevi Meunier, PsyD. "No one wants to feel 'managed' by a spouse," Dr. Meunier says 3. Involving other people in your marriage. What you might think of as harmless complaining to friends and family can actually break your husband's trust. It threatens the safety of the "couple bubble" you've created together. "Men find this humiliating and hurtful," says Norene Gonsiewski, Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW), a couples' therapist at the Portland Relationship Center in Oregon. If you really need to vent, consider talking to a doctor or therapist to keep things confidential. Related: Check out 10 things husbands should never do. 4. Not showing appreciation for thing he does right. "Men will never ask for it," Gonsiewski says, but regular doses of praise are important. "They need to hear that their wives are proud of them." Scott Haltzman, MD, author of The Secrets of Happily Married Women, notes that men tend to be more action-oriented than women, which means they show affection in different ways. "He may empty the dishwasher as a way of saying he cares about you." Haltzman's suggestion: "Pay attention to what he does, and let him know you notice." 5. Withholding sex as punishment. While women generally need emotional intimacy to make love, men express emotional intimacy through sex, says Marla Taviano, author of Is that All He Thinks About? When a wife turns down sex, in her husband's mind, "she's turning him down as a person," explains Taviano. Using sex as a bargaining chip to get your needs meet isn't negotiating-it's emotional blackmail, which can alienate him. "Withholding sex may make your partner feel less love from you and give you less love in return," says Dr. Haltzman. Related: Learn 8 secrets of sexually satisfied couples. 6. Trying to change him. "Every person can change, but it's better to focus on our own changes, rather than our spouse's behaviors," says Anne Ziff, LMFT, author of Marrying Well. And yet, some women see marriage as a starting point for a "husband makeover." This isn't all bad-studies show that married men tend to eat healthier and have fewer problems with drugs and alcohol than single guys-but avoid creating a relationship in which your husband can't be himself. "When a man feels his home is not his castle, and he can't just be a guy-whether it's walking around in his boxers or letting out a burp-he'll feel like he's been put in a box where he has to act prim and proper all the time," Dr. Meunier says. Sometimes, it's smarter to let the little things slide. 7. Making important decisions without his input. Research shows that money is a top source of disagreements among married couples, even those with bigger budgets. In a lot of ways, money equals power, and balancing power is important to harmonious relationships, Meunier says. Whether you're considering booking a vacation or buying a dishwasher, your partner deserves a say. The same goes for decisions that affect how you and your husband spend your time, such as inviting company over for dinner or signing up your kids for soccer. Although it may seem simpler to beg for forgiveness instead of getting him on board, unilateral decision making can drive you two apart. 8. Not giving him the chance to be the kind of dad he wants to be. Mothers often parent differently than fathers, but not necessarily better. For instance, some studies show that parenting styles more common with dads, such as rough-and-tumble play, offer children unique developmental benefits. "Men's resentment grows as their children develop with gaps in their competency and independence, two attributes men rate highly," Gonsiewski says. "When a woman doesn't trust her husband to parent she sends a message that he's wrong and only she's right." Instead, "reinforce your husband for the positive contributions he makes to your children's lives," Dr. Haltzman recommends. 9. Acting jealous when he looks at other women. Men are visual creatures, Dr. Meunier says, so it's not surprising that a typical heterosexual man would notice a good-looking woman. "Women who understand this and don't take it personally minimize unproductive fights about jealousy." When a wife overreacts to a situation, her husband will likely feel defensive, and eventually, resentful. Dr. Meunier's advice? "Chill out." Responding to a visual cue isn't cause for worry, she says-curious comments or behaviors, like dropping your hand to head across the room to talk to another woman, could signify a lack of commitment to you. 10. Expecting immediate forgiveness after you apologize. Studies show that seeking and granting forgiveness greatly contributes to marital satisfaction and longevity. But beware of empty words. While apologizing manages conflict, Dr. Navarra says a simple "I'm sorry" often isn't enough. To truly earn her husband's forgiveness, a wife needs to show that she understands why her husband is upset. Dr. Haltzman recommends being specific about what you're apologizing for, accepting responsibility for what you did, acknowledging that you what you did was harmful and lastly, asking what you can do to make it up to him. "If you've gotten to the first three steps cleanly, most men will say 'forget about it' to the last question," Dr. Haltzman says. Link to post Share on other sites
Koekie Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I feel like crying when I read this. I have then in the general sense been a good wife. Too bad it still wasnt enough to melt my husbands icy heart. I have never withheld sex and always made sure he knows how much I desire him. I have never interfered with him buying expensive toys and things for himself. In fact I supported each and every hobby, regardless of whether it received 100% more attention and time than me. I have never told him what to do with his professional life. I have given him space each and every time to cool off if I did something wrong. I have never been annoyed about him looking at other women, in fact Ill joke around and point out pretty ladies. Still. My needs have gone unmet. Thank you for your post. At least now I know I did my part. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I feel like crying when I read this. I have then in the general sense been a good wife. Too bad it still wasnt enough to melt my husbands icy heart. I have never withheld sex and always made sure he knows how much I desire him. I have never interfered with him buying expensive toys and things for himself. In fact I supported each and every hobby, regardless of whether it received 100% more attention and time than me. I have never told him what to do with his professional life. I have given him space each and every time to cool off if I did something wrong. I have never been annoyed about him looking at other women, in fact Ill joke around and point out pretty ladies. Still. My needs have gone unmet. Thank you for your post. At least now I know I did my part. I can only say sorry...... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 I found this very interesting and still count 5 on this list as things that will be discussed in counseling at some point. Surprised there was so little discussion on this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 My takeaway from the list, other than some really glaring examples that, like a dope, I absorbed for many years, is that we only have control over ourselves and our own choices; the rest is out of our control, including any actions and/or words from/by our spouse. Counseling clarified a lot of this; boiled it down to specifics which we could communicate about clearly. I hope it does the same for you, and before one or both of you pushes the 'eject button'. Link to post Share on other sites
cocorico Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I certainly many in my marriage, which I think is pretty good..... Five to be exact, and it gets worse year after year.... And yes there are more...... Thoughts? From Yahoo Here, marriage experts share some of the most common reasons husbands resent their wives and how to protect your relationship. Photo by Getty Images. 1. Not fighting fair. Happy couples don't necessarily fight less, Dr. Navarra says; they just fight better, by "describing their own feelings and needs rather than labeling their partner as faulty." And the ball is probably in your court for that. Research shows that wives are more likely to bring up problems for discussion, while husbands are more likely to withdraw at the first sign of an argument. When this keeps happening, women tend to start conversations on a negative note, which only makes things worse. Instead of resorting to personal attacks-"You're such a slob!" "We're going to be late because of you!"-which lead to defensiveness, Dr. Navarra recommends sticking to "I-statements," such as "When (this happens), I feel (frustrated, angry). What I needed was..." Related: Discover 9 fights you should have with your husband. 2. Treating him like a child. "A big issue I see in couples is a man resenting his partner because he feels she talks down to him," says Mary Kelleher, LMFT. This can leave him feeling "less-than," and nothing triggers resentment faster than inadequacy. So avoid threatening his independence-the way pressuring him to go for a promotion so he'll bring home more money may be perceived-suggests couples therapist Vagdevi Meunier, PsyD. "No one wants to feel 'managed' by a spouse," Dr. Meunier says 3. Involving other people in your marriage. What you might think of as harmless complaining to friends and family can actually break your husband's trust. It threatens the safety of the "couple bubble" you've created together. "Men find this humiliating and hurtful," says Norene Gonsiewski, Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW), a couples' therapist at the Portland Relationship Center in Oregon. If you really need to vent, consider talking to a doctor or therapist to keep things confidential. Related: Check out 10 things husbands should never do. 4. Not showing appreciation for thing he does right. "Men will never ask for it," Gonsiewski says, but regular doses of praise are important. "They need to hear that their wives are proud of them." Scott Haltzman, MD, author of The Secrets of Happily Married Women, notes that men tend to be more action-oriented than women, which means they show affection in different ways. "He may empty the dishwasher as a way of saying he cares about you." Haltzman's suggestion: "Pay attention to what he does, and let him know you notice." 5. Withholding sex as punishment. While women generally need emotional intimacy to make love, men express emotional intimacy through sex, says Marla Taviano, author of Is that All He Thinks About? When a wife turns down sex, in her husband's mind, "she's turning him down as a person," explains Taviano. Using sex as a bargaining chip to get your needs meet isn't negotiating-it's emotional blackmail, which can alienate him. "Withholding sex may make your partner feel less love from you and give you less love in return," says Dr. Haltzman. Related: Learn 8 secrets of sexually satisfied couples. 6. Trying to change him. "Every person can change, but it's better to focus on our own changes, rather than our spouse's behaviors," says Anne Ziff, LMFT, author of Marrying Well. And yet, some women see marriage as a starting point for a "husband makeover." This isn't all bad-studies show that married men tend to eat healthier and have fewer problems with drugs and alcohol than single guys-but avoid creating a relationship in which your husband can't be himself. "When a man feels his home is not his castle, and he can't just be a guy-whether it's walking around in his boxers or letting out a burp-he'll feel like he's been put in a box where he has to act prim and proper all the time," Dr. Meunier says. Sometimes, it's smarter to let the little things slide. 7. Making important decisions without his input. Research shows that money is a top source of disagreements among married couples, even those with bigger budgets. In a lot of ways, money equals power, and balancing power is important to harmonious relationships, Meunier says. Whether you're considering booking a vacation or buying a dishwasher, your partner deserves a say. The same goes for decisions that affect how you and your husband spend your time, such as inviting company over for dinner or signing up your kids for soccer. Although it may seem simpler to beg for forgiveness instead of getting him on board, unilateral decision making can drive you two apart. 8. Not giving him the chance to be the kind of dad he wants to be. Mothers often parent differently than fathers, but not necessarily better. For instance, some studies show that parenting styles more common with dads, such as rough-and-tumble play, offer children unique developmental benefits. "Men's resentment grows as their children develop with gaps in their competency and independence, two attributes men rate highly," Gonsiewski says. "When a woman doesn't trust her husband to parent she sends a message that he's wrong and only she's right." Instead, "reinforce your husband for the positive contributions he makes to your children's lives," Dr. Haltzman recommends. 9. Acting jealous when he looks at other women. Men are visual creatures, Dr. Meunier says, so it's not surprising that a typical heterosexual man would notice a good-looking woman. "Women who understand this and don't take it personally minimize unproductive fights about jealousy." When a wife overreacts to a situation, her husband will likely feel defensive, and eventually, resentful. Dr. Meunier's advice? "Chill out." Responding to a visual cue isn't cause for worry, she says-curious comments or behaviors, like dropping your hand to head across the room to talk to another woman, could signify a lack of commitment to you. 10. Expecting immediate forgiveness after you apologize. Studies show that seeking and granting forgiveness greatly contributes to marital satisfaction and longevity. But beware of empty words. While apologizing manages conflict, Dr. Navarra says a simple "I'm sorry" often isn't enough. To truly earn her husband's forgiveness, a wife needs to show that she understands why her husband is upset. Dr. Haltzman recommends being specific about what you're apologizing for, accepting responsibility for what you did, acknowledging that you what you did was harmful and lastly, asking what you can do to make it up to him. "If you've gotten to the first three steps cleanly, most men will say 'forget about it' to the last question," Dr. Haltzman says. This list seems spooky to me - it's exactly how my in laws describe my H's previous M (aside from her belittling him in public, and being outright abusive to everyone). Link to post Share on other sites
DaisyLeigh1967 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I certainly many in my marriage, which I think is pretty good..... Five to be exact, and it gets worse year after year.... And yes there are more...... Thoughts? From Yahoo Here, marriage experts share some of the most common reasons husbands resent their wives and how to protect your relationship. Photo by Getty Images. 1. Not fighting fair. Happy couples don't necessarily fight less, Dr. Navarra says; they just fight better, by "describing their own feelings and needs rather than labeling their partner as faulty." And the ball is probably in your court for that. Research shows that wives are more likely to bring up problems for discussion, while husbands are more likely to withdraw at the first sign of an argument. When this keeps happening, women tend to start conversations on a negative note, which only makes things worse. Instead of resorting to personal attacks-"You're such a slob!" "We're going to be late because of you!"-which lead to defensiveness, Dr. Navarra recommends sticking to "I-statements," such as "When (this happens), I feel (frustrated, angry). What I needed was..." Related: Discover 9 fights you should have with your husband. 2. Treating him like a child. "A big issue I see in couples is a man resenting his partner because he feels she talks down to him," says Mary Kelleher, LMFT. This can leave him feeling "less-than," and nothing triggers resentment faster than inadequacy. So avoid threatening his independence-the way pressuring him to go for a promotion so he'll bring home more money may be perceived-suggests couples therapist Vagdevi Meunier, PsyD. "No one wants to feel 'managed' by a spouse," Dr. Meunier says 3. Involving other people in your marriage. What you might think of as harmless complaining to friends and family can actually break your husband's trust. It threatens the safety of the "couple bubble" you've created together. "Men find this humiliating and hurtful," says Norene Gonsiewski, Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW), a couples' therapist at the Portland Relationship Center in Oregon. If you really need to vent, consider talking to a doctor or therapist to keep things confidential. Related: Check out 10 things husbands should never do. 4. Not showing appreciation for thing he does right. "Men will never ask for it," Gonsiewski says, but regular doses of praise are important. "They need to hear that their wives are proud of them." Scott Haltzman, MD, author of The Secrets of Happily Married Women, notes that men tend to be more action-oriented than women, which means they show affection in different ways. "He may empty the dishwasher as a way of saying he cares about you." Haltzman's suggestion: "Pay attention to what he does, and let him know you notice." 5. Withholding sex as punishment. While women generally need emotional intimacy to make love, men express emotional intimacy through sex, says Marla Taviano, author of Is that All He Thinks About? When a wife turns down sex, in her husband's mind, "she's turning him down as a person," explains Taviano. Using sex as a bargaining chip to get your needs meet isn't negotiating-it's emotional blackmail, which can alienate him. "Withholding sex may make your partner feel less love from you and give you less love in return," says Dr. Haltzman. Related: Learn 8 secrets of sexually satisfied couples. 6. Trying to change him. "Every person can change, but it's better to focus on our own changes, rather than our spouse's behaviors," says Anne Ziff, LMFT, author of Marrying Well. And yet, some women see marriage as a starting point for a "husband makeover." This isn't all bad-studies show that married men tend to eat healthier and have fewer problems with drugs and alcohol than single guys-but avoid creating a relationship in which your husband can't be himself. "When a man feels his home is not his castle, and he can't just be a guy-whether it's walking around in his boxers or letting out a burp-he'll feel like he's been put in a box where he has to act prim and proper all the time," Dr. Meunier says. Sometimes, it's smarter to let the little things slide. 7. Making important decisions without his input. Research shows that money is a top source of disagreements among married couples, even those with bigger budgets. In a lot of ways, money equals power, and balancing power is important to harmonious relationships, Meunier says. Whether you're considering booking a vacation or buying a dishwasher, your partner deserves a say. The same goes for decisions that affect how you and your husband spend your time, such as inviting company over for dinner or signing up your kids for soccer. Although it may seem simpler to beg for forgiveness instead of getting him on board, unilateral decision making can drive you two apart. 8. Not giving him the chance to be the kind of dad he wants to be. Mothers often parent differently than fathers, but not necessarily better. For instance, some studies show that parenting styles more common with dads, such as rough-and-tumble play, offer children unique developmental benefits. "Men's resentment grows as their children develop with gaps in their competency and independence, two attributes men rate highly," Gonsiewski says. "When a woman doesn't trust her husband to parent she sends a message that he's wrong and only she's right." Instead, "reinforce your husband for the positive contributions he makes to your children's lives," Dr. Haltzman recommends. 9. Acting jealous when he looks at other women. Men are visual creatures, Dr. Meunier says, so it's not surprising that a typical heterosexual man would notice a good-looking woman. "Women who understand this and don't take it personally minimize unproductive fights about jealousy." When a wife overreacts to a situation, her husband will likely feel defensive, and eventually, resentful. Dr. Meunier's advice? "Chill out." Responding to a visual cue isn't cause for worry, she says-curious comments or behaviors, like dropping your hand to head across the room to talk to another woman, could signify a lack of commitment to you. 10. Expecting immediate forgiveness after you apologize. Studies show that seeking and granting forgiveness greatly contributes to marital satisfaction and longevity. But beware of empty words. While apologizing manages conflict, Dr. Navarra says a simple "I'm sorry" often isn't enough. To truly earn her husband's forgiveness, a wife needs to show that she understands why her husband is upset. Dr. Haltzman recommends being specific about what you're apologizing for, accepting responsibility for what you did, acknowledging that you what you did was harmful and lastly, asking what you can do to make it up to him. "If you've gotten to the first three steps cleanly, most men will say 'forget about it' to the last question," Dr. Haltzman says. Vice versa, people. Vice versa. Men are guilty of this too. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted September 6, 2014 Author Share Posted September 6, 2014 Vice versa, people. Vice versa. Men are guilty of this too. Actually these I see overwhelmingly as female traits. I would say 2,3,4,5,6 & 8 in particular. I'm sure there is a female list, but stand by my opinion (not that I wrote this)..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DaisyLeigh1967 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Actually these I see overwhelmingly as female traits. I would say 2,3,4,5,6 & 8 in particular. I'm sure there is a female list, but stand by my opinion (not that I wrote this)..... Nope. Men want women to change, involve others in the marriage (their moms usually) withhold sex as a way to punish the wife, treat their wives like they are children, and all you list, men have done it too. Especially the no appreciation and sex withholding. Believe it or not. Link to post Share on other sites
ForeverTainted Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Actually these I see overwhelmingly as female traits. I would say 2,3,4,5,6 & 8 in particular. I'm sure there is a female list, but stand by my opinion (not that I wrote this)..... 2. My husband has had the tendancy to condesend and treat me like a child. I have known other men to do this. It may feel different from a male or not be noticed by males but trust me. It is more than common among males. 3. Didn't you just involve another woman in your marriage??? Don't quite a few guys do that? I'd say a need to vent may be far more female as it is "accepted" but look at all the wofe blastinf here. There are guys who blast or mock thei wives. It is pretty much the same thing. 4. This is absolutely not even close to just a male thing. Happens all the time for women too. Once again a human flaw and not even close to a woman only problem. 5. Never done this and defently with the stereotype that is given about woman and sex you won't hear about this. But, maye it isn't punishment. Maybe a lot more is involved as was stated later. But if it is done as punishment it would e sinilar to a guy who withholds affection because he is pissed. I've seen and heard of that. 6. I would say that a lot of young girls marry and fall into this trap. But there are guys who in their own way try to change their partner. Make her cleaner, more forward in bed, more guy like and more accepting of their faults. 8. This is a personality thing not a gender thing. OCD or type A people tend to be this way. It is that they have a hard time with "dangerous" stunts or things that go against "the plan". Link to post Share on other sites
iiiii Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Yes, I'm afraid men do many of these things too - and women resent them for it. Perhaps this spouse needs to be titled "Reasons marriage partners may resent each other"? For example, number 3. I have a dear friend who divorced a few years back, and her husband contributed to that marriage's destruction by going home to his parents and whining about his wife every time they fought. Of course, his mother supported her son, so the husband would come home after being soothed and flattered by mummy and being told "of course it's ALL her fault". It was absolutely toxic for the relationship. I'd also say about number 5... this does happen, but sometimes I think people mistakenly misinterpret women genuinely not wanting sex as trying to "punish". If I had a big fight with my OH, I wouldn't feel like sex afterwards. I'm not "punishing" him - I just wouldn't feel safe enough to relax around him until we'd patched up our differences. I'm sure many people feel similarly. Link to post Share on other sites
GemmaUK Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 That list pretty much describes my last ex...a man! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted September 7, 2014 Author Share Posted September 7, 2014 I did not write it, only found by accident and posted it. I thought it hit many points (and certainly in my marriage). Of course there are mama's boys, men that still treat women as inferiors, and maybe a small % who use sex as a weapon (though that is probably a much larger problem), certainly those who spend money without discussion..... There are two well known jokes about marriage that are gender specific (and sorry for the lousy delivery). "What is the greatest libido killer for a newlywed wife?" A. The Wedding Cake "Men marry because they want their wife just the way they are. Women marry so they can change their husbands" Link to post Share on other sites
Priv Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 not married but I can readily identify with a lot. 1-2-3-4-6-7 and 10 but only in the never having recieved any apology whatsoever. Pretty good list of destructive behaviours in a rs. Link to post Share on other sites
DaisyLeigh1967 Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 I did not write it, only found by accident and posted it. I thought it hit many points (and certainly in my marriage). Of course there are mama's boys, men that still treat women as inferiors, and maybe a small % who use sex as a weapon (though that is probably a much larger problem), certainly those who spend money without discussion..... There are two well known jokes about marriage that are gender specific (and sorry for the lousy delivery). "What is the greatest libido killer for a newlywed wife?" A. The Wedding Cake "Men marry because they want their wife just the way they are. Women marry so they can change their husbands" I never wanted to change him. I only wanted to be treated with respect. Link to post Share on other sites
Tayken Posted September 7, 2014 Share Posted September 7, 2014 Not many women will admit that they do indeed indulge in all this, especially on a forum like this...but most inadvertently or otherwise do indeed practice these behaviours and it's only going to get worse when you look around at the teenagers we have today, who are mostly self centered, have been raised to feel entitled, will rather spend time on social media than have a conversation verbally with people Point: 2,3,4,5,6,7 are deal breakers for me when dating or in any potential partner. However, I am realistic that in my age group of 40 plus, a lot of people are set in their ways and are just looking to take advantage to suit them because retirement is around the corner. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Actually these I see overwhelmingly as female traits. I would say 2,3,4,5,6 & 8 in particular. I'm sure there is a female list, but stand by my opinion (not that I wrote this)..... Feel free, but you're not in the shoes of a woman who's experienced this. You're getting pushback here. Maybe it's for a reason. It's always better to stick to what you know for sure - your own marriage. No one else's. 1,2,4,5,6,7,10. Yeah. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) Feel free, but you're not in the shoes of a woman who's experienced this. You're getting pushback here. Maybe it's for a reason. It's always better to stick to what you know for sure - your own marriage. No one else's. 1,2,4,5,6,7,10. Yeah. I did...... I said 5 were issues in my marriage. Again someone else wrote it and I posted it 18 months ago. I will freely admit men too can indulge in many of the points on the list. Edited September 8, 2014 by Toodamnpragmatic Link to post Share on other sites
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