John Piper

[M30USA]

This was the first sermon of John Piper's I ever heard. This guy is absolutely fearless in his teaching, if you ask me. Modern day John the Baptist.

 

John Piper - You can't serve God and money - YouTube

[TheFinalWord]

This was the first sermon of John Piper's I ever heard. This guy is absolutely fearless in his teaching, if you ask me. Modern day John the Baptist.

 

John Piper - You can't serve God and money - YouTube

 

I'm not Calvinist, but I've always liked Piper...he reminds me of Wycliffe.

 

John Wycliffe - biography - YouTube

[M30USA]

I'm not Calvinist, but I've always liked Piper...he reminds me of Wycliffe.

 

John Wycliffe - biography - YouTube

 

I'm a Calvinist...and an Arminianist.

 

I think we've talked about this before. Forms of logic which exceed human logic.

[pureinheart]

I'm not sure what I am:) a sinner saved by grace?

 

M30, thank you for this video- this is what it spoke to me. It's time to get real. I can say that I'm this that or the other (speaking of sin), that this that or the other is not my God nor idle....BUT- I am guilty of all whether I think money is not my god, whether I think man is not my god, whether I think anything under the sun is not my god.

 

I am guilty of all sin whether I "think" I am or not.

 

Want to add, these words are not this major need to "cut myself down", it just the plain simple truth. Every once n awhile I do get something right, BUT that's because He did it and not me:laugh:

 

Thanks again M30

[pureinheart]

I'm not Calvinist, but I've always liked Piper...he reminds me of Wycliffe.

 

John Wycliffe - biography - YouTube

 

I love this video TFW, and paused it partway through as to not forget this thought. The precept of man is the concept that we can "buy" our way to heaven, and it's not always through money, it can be through self, works, all sorts of different man made ideals.

 

The concept that forgiveness is free is just too much for human comprehension. The price that Jesus paid causing salvation to be free is just too easy and I think that is why it is rejected to the degree it is. It's too simplistic. Man likes to make things complicated and hard, I know I do- it's why I'm always in there to "help" God:rolleyes:

 

I don't want to confuse the price that Jesus paid with the price man must pay also through cleansings, purifications and refinings- but this price is to rid ourselves of the many man made preceptions.

 

If it's simple it's God, if it's complicated it's man.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

This was the first sermon of John Piper's I ever heard. This guy is absolutely fearless in his teaching, if you ask me. Modern day John the Baptist.

 

John Piper - You can't serve God and money - YouTube

 

I like listening to his sermons, however there are two hangups that I have:

 

First, I can't get past the fact that he looks and sounds like Larry David.

 

Secondly, and more seriously is I strongly disagree with his position on women in leadership. I recognize that I'm a minority on this issue, and understand that not everyone is going to agree on every theological point. I just steer clear of pastors that are on the conservative side of the spectrum.

[M30USA]

I like listening to his sermons, however there are two hangups that I have:

 

First, I can't get past the fact that he looks and sounds like Larry David.

 

Secondly, and more seriously is I strongly disagree with his position on women in leadership. I recognize that I'm a minority on this issue, and understand that not everyone is going to agree on every theological point. I just steer clear of pastors that are on the conservative side of the spectrum.

 

You are correct. Women not being permitted in Church leadership goes against everything our society believes (and even fights for). I can't argue that. However, the fact remains that Scripture prohibits it. This is something that everyone must decide for themselves. You don't have to believe Scripture. If you don't, I can't argue that. But if you choose to believe Scripture, you must recognize what it says and not try to pick and choose. You either are dealing with just another ordinary man-made book or you are dealing with God's revelation and instruction. If the latter is true, then no matter how contrary to society's convictions it is or how mad it makes people, we must always dump what society says and obey the Word. Societies come and go, opinions change, "...but the Word of our God stands forever." (Isaiah 40:8)

[Betrayed&Stayed]

You are correct. Women not being permitted in Church leadership goes against everything our society believes (and even fights for). I can't argue that. However, the fact remains that Scripture prohibits it. This is something that everyone must decide for themselves. You don't have to believe Scripture. If you don't, I can't argue that. But if you choose to believe Scripture, you must recognize what it says and not try to pick and choose. You either are dealing with just another ordinary man-made book or you are dealing with God's revelation and instruction. If the latter is true, then no matter how contrary to society's convictions it is or how mad it makes people, we must always dump what society says and obey the Word. Societies come and go, opinions change, "...but the Word of our God stands forever." (Isaiah 40:8)

 

We read the Bible differently and I'm OK with that. Jesus says "You have heard that it was said...But I say to you..." six times in Matthew 5. Even Jesus says not to read the Bible (Torah) too literally.

 

I'm not going to nullify the call that God extended to all of the ordained female pastors. Women have talents and a rightful place in leadership of the church.

 

Scripture is not clear on women's role. If it was so clear, then why doesn't every denomination/church agree? What about what Paul says about Phoebe, "a deacon of the church"?

 

When it comes to interpreting Scripture EVERYONE "picks and chooses". Paul clearly condones slavery (Eph 6:5; 1 Peter 2:18). Are women required to wear head coverings in your church (1 Cor 11:5-6)? I've never heard of anyone plucking their eyes out or cutting off their limbs (Matt 18:8-9). Jesus said anyone who divorces and remarries is an adulterer (Luke 16:18). Do you touch your wife while she is menstruating (Lev 15; Ez 18)? Do you advocate killing anyone who does yard work or cooks on the Sabbath (Ex 31:15)? How about killing adulterers (Deut 22:22)?

 

Back on topic: I could never be a member of a church/denomination that treats women as a second class Christian.

[M30USA]

We read the Bible differently and I'm OK with that. Jesus says "You have heard that it was said...But I say to you..." six times in Matthew 5. Even Jesus says not to read the Bible (Torah) too literally.

 

I'm not going to nullify the call that God extended to all of the ordained female pastors. Women have talents and a rightful place in leadership of the church.

 

Scripture is not clear on women's role. If it was so clear, then why doesn't every denomination/church agree? What about what Paul says about Phoebe, "a deacon of the church"?

 

When it comes to interpreting Scripture EVERYONE "picks and chooses". Paul clearly condones slavery (Eph 6:5; 1 Peter 2:18). Are women required to wear head coverings in your church (1 Cor 11:5-6)? I've never heard of anyone plucking their eyes out or cutting off their limbs (Matt 18:8-9). Jesus said anyone who divorces and remarries is an adulterer (Luke 16:18). Do you touch your wife while she is menstruating (Lev 15; Ez 18)? Do you advocate killing anyone who does yard work or cooks on the Sabbath (Ex 31:15)? How about killing adulterers (Deut 22:22)?

 

Back on topic: I could never be a member of a church/denomination that treats women as a second class Christian.

 

Is your opinion coming from a desire to follow your own understanding (along with conforming to society) or is it coming from a desire to understand God's Word which stands forever? This is a good starting question.

 

God didn't make men to have babies. It's not sexist. It's just how it is. In like manner, God made men to have spiritual discernment which women do not possess. Sexist? Sure. But Eve was deceived by the Serpent. Women to this day are more likely to fall victim to the deceptions circulating around the world. For this reason, men are to be leaders of matters of spirituality.

[pureinheart]

Is your opinion coming from a desire to follow your own understanding (along with conforming to society) or is it coming from a desire to understand God's Word which stands forever? This is a good starting question.

 

God didn't make men to have babies. It's not sexist. It's just how it is. In like manner, God made men to have spiritual discernment which women do not possess. Sexist? Sure. But Eve was deceived by the Serpent. Women to this day are more likely to fall victim to the deceptions circulating around the world. For this reason, men are to be leaders of matters of spirituality.

 

God holds extremely high regard for women, so high that He holds men accountable for leadership, and equipped them accordingly. It's my understanding there is a chain of command if you will.

 

As far as discernment and the apple...lol, we could have a major discussion on this one!

[BetheButterfly]

We read the Bible differently and I'm OK with that. Jesus says "You have heard that it was said...But I say to you..." six times in Matthew 5.

 

True. While Jesus did not nullify the commands in the Torah, he went deeper into them.

 

Even Jesus says not to read the Bible (Torah) too literally.

Where did he say that? I think Jesus' focus was on peoples' hearts, not on people mindlessly obeying thou shalt nots, you know?

 

I'm not going to nullify the call that God extended to all of the ordained female pastors. Women have talents and a rightful place in leadership of the church.

100% agreed!!!

 

Now, the church I go to does not have a "woman pastor" BUT the pastor's wife, as well as many women in the church, are leaders of women Bible study groups as well as are leaders of children and teens and family groups in the church. I think that's fine. I personally would be a bit uncomfortable with a man leading a women's Bible study group

 

One lady who I have learned a lot from is Joyce Meyers, and she is a pastor. I don't think she should be not allowed to preach due to being a female, and I don't think Jesus specifically said that women cannot preach or be pastors.

 

In his time period, women did not have the social status that they do today in Western cultures, and I personally believe it's very important to note that keeping women in a low social status is against Jesus' command to love. Love knows no social status; love elevates everyone to the same status as being children of God.

 

Scripture is not clear on women's role. If it was so clear, then why doesn't every denomination/church agree? What about what Paul says about Phoebe, "a deacon of the church"?

Good point.

When it comes to interpreting Scripture EVERYONE "picks and chooses".

It seems it depends on the person's heart (mind/soul) in what they pick and choose. For example, a person who is hungry for war is going to want to go justify war through the Old Testament accounts of history, whereas a person who values love and peace will focus on Jesus' teachings to love.

 

Paul clearly condones slavery (Eph 6:5; 1 Peter 2:18).

1 Peter is not known to be written by Paul. Rather, it is considered to be written by Peter. Peter is not advocating slavery, but rather obedience to masters, seeing as how many Christians (followers of Jesus) were slaves to other people when they begin to follow Jesus. Christianity appealed/appeals to the poor and to slaves.

 

Paul clearly advocates freedom from slavery (1 Corinthians 7:21, Philemon 1-8-21).

 

Are women required to wear head coverings in your church (1 Cor 11:5-6)?

Nope. I'm not in Corinth in that time period, and interestingly, the only place in the entire Bible (Old and New Testament) where head coverings are mandated is only in Paul's letter to the church in Corinth. That is important to note.

 

I've never heard of anyone plucking their eyes out or cutting off their limbs (Matt 18:8-9).

Hyperbole is a form of speech that Jesus uses here to stress how important it is not to disobey God.

 

Jesus said anyone who divorces and remarries is an adulterer (Luke 16:18).

Jesus was talking to men who divorced their wives, leaving her desolate and "undesirable" and married others for selfish reasons.

 

Do you touch your wife while she is menstruating (Lev 15; Ez 18)? Do you advocate killing anyone who does yard work or cooks on the Sabbath (Ex 31:15)? How about killing adulterers (Deut 22:22)?

Christians are not under the Law of Moses, but are under the commands of Jesus Christ.

 

Back on topic: I could never be a member of a church/denomination that treats women as a second class Christian.

I couldn't either.

 

One of my most dearly beloved role models is Corrie ten Boom, an amazing lovely lady who preached about God's love and forgiveness. She had been through "hell" because of helping rescue Jewish people from the Nazis, but after she escaped the concentration camp (though her sister died there and her Dad died in prison years before), she preached in many churches. Many women are wonderful preachers of God's goodness, and they should not be silenced simply for what Paul wrote long time ago to certain churches.

Edited March 21, 2013 by BetheButterfly

[pureinheart]

 

 

 

Now, the church I go to does not have a "woman pastor" BUT the pastor's wife, as well as many women in the church, are leaders of women Bible study groups as well as are leaders of children and teens and family groups in the church. I think that's fine. I personally would be a bit uncomfortable with a man leading a women's Bible study group

 

One lady who I have learned a lot from is Joyce Meyers, and she is a pastor. I don't think she should be not allowed to preach due to being a female, and I don't think Jesus specifically said that women cannot preach or be pastors.

 

 

 

Hhahahaha Bethy, you beat me to it! The Pastors wife has a great deal of authority as they are responsible for the women. I'm real strong for the mostpart on men dealing with men and women dealing with women, even in the secular.

[pureinheart]

Hey^^^^^^ I almost multi-quoted:D