kids seem 2nd best!

[TaraMaiden]

Suzie - be there for them. Before long, they will begin to lose interest in ever seeing their father.

Sad - but true.

 

Tell them the best revenge is to live well.

 

A very famous an dpopular female TV personality here in the UK, grew up alone with her mother, because her father abandoned them when she was still a young girl.

Once she achieved fame, he tried to re-establish contact - and she told him where he could shove his good wishes.

 

I suspect much the same, more or less to different degrees, will happen with your kids.

And that's not down to you to remedy.

 

Sadly, there is no Law that compels us to demonstrate or manifest affection and attention for others. he will learn the hard way, that it works both ways.

[Shocked Suzie]

Tailspin they are so selfish! ... It's the only thing that really fully rattles me

 

yes Tara, thank you... I will ensure I'm there for them, not pass judgment make my time with them positive. He 'will' learn the hard way, my kids are starting already to expect nothing from him and prepare each week in some way to be let down, his lame excuses and lies are ridiculous!

 

As long as they have me and support from family and friends that's what matters now

 

X

[TaraMaiden]

I love how people bang on about kids in a divorce/one-parent families, how they 'need a father'.

 

No - they don't.

They need a reliable, loving, committed and focused father.

 

This father?

They don't need.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Of course, that goes for mothers too. I would never usually differentiate, but I'm just speaking in the context of this specific situation, here.......)

[Shocked Suzie]

The amazing thing is I really think he doesn't think he's doing any wrong

[TaraMaiden]

I actually believe deep down he knows it.

 

He just chooses to suppress his conscience and live like he wants to, not like he knows he ought to....

 

It will all come back to haunt him in the end.

 

His actions are Karmic - the resulting 'Vipaka' will be a nasty blow.

 

[Calvin's wagon]

Hi!

 

Shocked Suzie, first of all, I'm really sorry to hear what you and your kids are going through! I really hope that 1.) you will all come through this ok and 2.) that he will work hard to repair what can mended.

 

I don't have personal experience with parents getting divorced, so from that aspect I can't give you any useful advice and perhaps my advice might inadvertently be counterproductive.

 

But perhaps it would be beneficial to try to contact (online,...) certain support groups for single parents, children of divorced parents etc., so you could get their advice and experience what you and your children might do to lessen the negative impact of his abhorrent and frankly shameful behaviour. For example, it might be (depending on their age etc.) beneficial for them if they start writing a diary of their feelings etc.,

 

Likewise, I see little risk and potentially big benefits in looking up books with advice for divorcing parents, with focus on how to best protect the children. Unfortunately I don't know any such books, but I would nevertheless recommend you two other books, that have immensely helped me to deal with my parents toxic legacy (feeling of inadequacy, of not being worth my parents' attention, love, suppressing negative emotions,... - sth that, judging from what you've written, might be(come) an issue with your kids) and my issues in general.

 

First is Toxic Parents by Susan Forward (available for free online in PDF if you google it - if you can't find it, I'll send you a link), the second is Families and how to survive them by Skynner (this book is much more "lightly" written (co-authored by John Cleese:)) and I think appropriate also for younger people...).

 

Those books, especially parts of Toxic parents, I hope their Dad will also read. And I think eventually (depending on their age, advice of experts/people with more experience, and most importantly your gut feeling) it would be good for your kids to read.

 

Is their anyone that your kids at the moment seem to trust a lot beside you? A family member, friend,..., that you also trust? I think it might help them to spend some quality time with an adult who is not so involved with all this, so that they could either temporarily forget all this or perhaps even be able to tell them things they are afraid to tell your or their dad...

 

And is their anyone that might be willing to put some sense in your husband's head? Parents, friends? Some 3rd party that might try to get your husband to start working on his relationship with the kids, on their well-being?

 

I would also advise you to make sure that your kids know that you love them no matter what etc. - they need a lot of positive reinforcement right now, in my opinion, because I imagine (from what I know from psychology and personal experience) that at the moment they might feel (perhaps subconsciously) that in a way it's their fault and that they're not good enough to be worthy of their Dad's love and attention, of him staying with them/his family. So when you tell them to talk to your dad about how they feel, let them know that you will always!! be there to listen to them, and that when you encourage them to talk to him/others, you're not doing this because you don't want to talk to them or want to talk less, but in addition to talking to you.

 

Also, if it's financially viable (I don't know where you live and what's the health system like etc.), it might be worth to give thought to some counselling for you&the kids. I know I wish I had started therapy a long time ago... Perhaps those support groups can give you advice where to look, who's the best, who's affordable etc. And hopefully there are, like in my country, some institutions that offer pro bono counselling (some with professional therapists, some more in the form of "talking",...), pro bono telephone lines etc.

 

Also pay attention (when reading books, talking to people) to what to do for yourself - I can only try to imagine how hard it must be for you, and it is crucial that you keep your well-being (both physical and emotional)! Regular exercise, time alone with your friends, ...

 

I could also write down some stuff that I do to make me feel better (like I said, I'm coping with a lot of stuff, a lot of parental (mostly emotional) abuse and neglect), like writing down on pieces of paper every day everything that has in the past hurt me, made me feel bad, every day write down what i'm afraid of, and then burn it. I will write more if you're interested.

 

There's also a post somewhere on this site about how to go LC with someone with whom you have children, that a lot of people like (the post), but at the moment I can't find it. I hope others will post it.

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and your children, and for their dad to pull up his head out from his arse as soon as possible and start taking care of his children.

 

Best wishes!

[TheBladeRunner]

So frustrating!! He's seemed to have walked away and his new life/GF seem to be his main priority??..he's always been a really good loving dad, i'm shocked that he's so far off from the children's emotions and feelings since he left! anyone else experienced this??

 

I so get this! My theory on why my STBXW had an affiar and demolished the family was solely for her own convenience. She has proven this many times by saying things like "four days is a long time to have her (our daughter)", and she is constantly telling me "I need a break". Just today she texts me and tells me that she is blowing off the required parenting class so she can go do something with a woman at work (get drunk). The thing that blows my mind is that we have a 50/50 custody arrangement.

 

This whole crappy deal really feels like she wanted to end the marriage so she could just do and be what she wants to be and it was done with no regard to my feelings or what the divorce would do to our daughter. I just don't know how people can be so fu#$%&g selfish.

 

She does all this so she can party and date.

Edited April 1, 2013 by TheBladeRunner
Forgot something

[TheBladeRunner]

Kudos for NOT bad mouthing the kids dad! I assure you that when you do "go there", nothing good will come of it. The kids will figure it out on their own; my daughter has already stated to figure this out herself and she is young. I didn't have to say a thing.

[Shocked Suzie]

Thank you so much CW sorry for late reply I've been at work, I will look into the books not thought about books like that for the children...great idea. They are also both going counseling and I think it's help them to open up a bit in their sessions... sadly I have no family close by as I've emigrated... From the UK now in Australia. It's a real shame as my side of the family and part of my XH would be great emotional support for my kids! I on the other hand do have a great and very varied group of friends here and know the perfect person for my kids to turn to if they wanted. My daughter has a few good friends she talks to, who also have separated parents and gets great comfort from them. With this forum and my friends, chats with my family Im very lucky, I'm a very open person so feel I'm

getting some pretty good support/advice... I'm also going counseling too.

 

I've been on the right track with regards to letting them know they will be safe, loved and that I'm there for them always... I tried to give my XH a heads up about the kids, which was a mistake I learnt from... There sadly isn't anyone that would probably want to get involved in talking to my XH with regards to him & the kids... Maybe one person, but my XH has pretty much walked away from our joint friends too.

 

Im finding new interests with the kids to ensure they have fun quality time with me, which we are really enjoying.

 

Thanks for you help, I'll have a look through on here too :)

Edited April 2, 2013 by Shocked Suzie

[Shocked Suzie]

I so get this! My theory on why my STBXW had an affiar and demolished the family was solely for her own convenience. She has proven this many times by saying things like "four days is a long time to have her (our daughter)", and she is constantly telling me "I need a break". Just today she texts me and tells me that she is blowing off the required parenting class so she can go do something with a woman at work (get drunk). The thing that blows my mind is that we have a 50/50 custody arrangement.

 

This whole crappy deal really feels like she wanted to end the marriage so she could just do and be what she wants to be and it was done with no regard to my feelings or what the divorce would do to our daughter.

I just don't know how people can be so fu#$%&g selfish.

 

She does all this so she can party and date.

 

they are amazing hey! I just don't get it! If it was me they really would be my priority....he was a fab dad, very selfish and slack now. It will be our Ex partners loss in the end!

 

50/50 must be so frustrating with her being like that!!! Feel for you hope karma comes soon to these self-centered people.

[Calvin's wagon]

Thank you so much CW

 

Thank you for saying so, very nice to hear that:)

 

sorry for late reply I've been at work

 

no problemo, take all time you need to reply, i cannot imagine what a supermom and superwoman you are be at the moment!

 

he books not thought about books like that for the children...great idea. They are also both going counseling and I think it's help them to open up a bit in their sessions.

 

I'm so happy to hear this! Awesome, you're an amazing mom to provide them with this!

 

I only started therapy in my mid 20s and I'm so sorry I didn't have it much much sooner. So I can understand how incredibly much you will have helped your children by doing this&everything else you've mentioned! They are really so lucky to have you for their mum.

 

sadly I have no family close by as I've emigrated... From the UK now in Australia. It's a real shame as my side of the family and part of my XH would be great emotional support for my kids!

 

That is a shame, but from what you've written, you've done everything humanly possible at the moment for them. And there is always Skype, mail,..., which is still a lot for them to get comfort from their/your family! And I hope it's just a matter of time before we get cheaper airlines to fly from Europe to Australia:) (I've always wanted to go see kangaroos, Australian Open and so many more...)

 

I on the other hand do have a great and very varied group of friends here and know the perfect person for my kids to turn to if they wanted. My daughter has a few good friends she talks to, who also have separated parents and gets great comfort from them. With this forum and my friends, chats with my family Im very lucky, I'm a very open person so feel I'm

getting some pretty good support/advice... I'm also going counseling too.

 

Great! It's so nice&rare to read posts like this, where I'm afterwards really reassured that things will turn out great, even though it might be hard!

 

I tried to give my XH a heads up about the kids, which was a mistake I learnt from...

 

What makes you feel like this was a mistake? I think (allowing for my lack of experience) that this is the best you could do - by this you've tried to open his eyes, and if you hadn't, you would perhaps be at times accusing yourself "why didn't I warn him", blaming yourself for not doing everything to protect your children...

 

I think it was the right and responsible thing, even if it didn't yield the results we'd all hope for, ie him realizing he needs to take care of the children... And who knows, maybe in time it will sink in and that it will contribute to him realizing this sooner rather than later, and he'll never be able to accuse you or console himself by saying "well she didn't warn me, how was i suppose to know..."etc.

 

 

There sadly isn't anyone that would probably want to get involved in talking to my XH with regards to him & the kids... Maybe one person, but my XH has pretty much walked away from our joint friends too.

 

Hmm, that sucks... Well, I don't know who this person is, but I'm not sure what you have to lose by asking him to help, and the potential reward for your kids makes the risk probably worthwhile?

 

Im finding new interests with the kids to ensure they have fun quality time with me, which we are really enjoying.

 

Great:) It's cool that you have common activities when you can just have fun, no need to talk about anything or remember anything!

 

 

It was really really really great to read your post, and I'm so glad that you&your kids will get so much love, help and support! Looking forward to hearing more from you, best wishes:)

[Shocked Suzie]

Thank you, I've been told I'm doing very well by friends but its nice to hear it from you and others that don't know me personally

 

Your right with regards to me trying to give my XH a heads up, at least I can say I tried to warn him.

 

I hope you've personally found peace, seems like you've had a rough time yourself...

 

I'll keep this post updated every now and then, hopefully one day he will wake up and comeback into their lives properly... Sadly I feel he will only step up to the mark when my children are prepared to meet his GF, which i feel is pretty lame but my kids will work that out for themselves.

 

Looking forward to building even better friendships with my fab kids

[Calvin's wagon]

Hi:)

 

Your right with regards to me trying to give my XH a heads up, at least I can say I tried to warn him.

 

I wanted to add here that I'd suggest you talk to your friends, experts, books, ..., about what you can do to make it as easy and as likely for him to realize and reestablish a functional relationship with his kids as possible.

 

I imagine in my mind that two things might help:

1. "warning" him/telling (preferably in writing as well) him about his kids periodically. At the moment he might not be mentally willing/reading to hear how he is needed by his kids, but he might be in the future when he gets one of the future warnings.

 

and just in case somewhere down the line it might come to some sort of custody dispute etc., it's good to have proof of all you've done for the kids and all that he has failed to do despite his warnings.

 

that just reminded me -> I know it's a touchy subject and might seem unnecessary at the moment, but it might be time in the near future to contact a family lawyer and ask him what are steps of precaution you can and should do for your kids and yourself (custody, finances,...) if things continue to deteriorate. At the moment I cannot imagine him behaving even worse, but I also would find it hard to imagine that any parent would be so indifferent/careless/... about his kids as he is at the moment...

 

2. periodically telling him that he hasn't burnt all the bridges down and that you&the kids still want and need him to reestablish a good parental relationship with the kids and a functional/civil co-parental relationship with you. I know that some people, after realizing what idiots they've been, are reluctant to contact the people they've hurt, to admit the mistakes and try to mend them,..., because they're afraid that they'll be rebuffed etc. if he is reminded periodically that he still has a family that would needs and wants him back (not in the sense of you two getting back together), I imagine it will be easier for him to start trying to mend the mistakes he's made.

 

And I cannot imagine how hard it would be for you too keep reaching out to him, but in the end you're doing this for your kids&yourself, and the potential benefits, imo, far outweigh the potential negatives&bad feelings...

 

 

 

 

I hope you've personally found peace, seems like you've had a rough time yourself...

 

Thank you, very nice of you. I'm not quite where I'd like to be, but I'm feeling better than I did years or even months ago. Today I got some good news about my health (that I didn't get HIV from my cheating&lying ex gf), so it's a good day and I think&hope the final chapter in this story of my life.

 

I'll keep this post updated every now and then, hopefully one day he will wake up and comeback into their lives properly...

 

Yes, it would be great to hear from you:)

 

Sadly I feel he will only step up to the mark when my children are prepared to meet his GF, which i feel is pretty lame but my kids will work that out for themselves.

 

I cannot imagine how hard it will be for you, but I hope you will also work hard (in IC,...) to accept your children meeting him&his gf as something positive. For several reasons:

1st of all, because, as you've mentioned it, it will increase the chance of him becoming a more responsible parent

2ndly, I think as hard as it is for you, it might be even harder for your kids and I wouldn't recommend leaving it for them to "work that out for themselves". I think they might feel a natural desire to hang out with their dad, but at the same time they might be afraid of what you'll think, of you feeling betrayed,..., of them spending time with their dad&gf and enjoying themselves, they might feel guilty for thinking and wanting to spend time,... A true cauldron of emotions and fears.

 

And kids are incredibly good at sensing their parents' emotions, even when they do their best to hide it. So even if you will be hiding your fear, dislike, feeling of lameness,..., regarding him&his new gf&them spending time with the kids, there's a chance that the kids will sense that.

 

But if you accept this as something positive, try to deal with the fears,..., you have regarding this,..., if they are encouraged by you, it will be much less painful and much more enjoyable for them to re-establish a good relationship with their dad.

 

I dunno, I'm more guessing and using my theoretical knowledge of psychology than my experience, so it'd be best to discuss this with a child/family therapist, books, friends,...

 

I'd be happy to talk more about all this with you, if you want...

 

Looking forward to building even better friendships with my fab kids

 

Great to hear! Onwards and upwards!

[Shocked Suzie]

Thanks again

 

I do worry that the kids will in the end hold back from enjoying themselves or expressing that they've enjoyed themselves when they finally meet his GF. I've tried to be positive when we've touched on this subject and have also said that I'll be fine when this time comes. I'm happy that they have said they don't want to meet her straight away as I wanted to make sure he is really sure about his new relationship before introducing the kids to her. My kids are teenagers and were in total shock when he left, we have a house move to deal with and the kids have said they are not interested in meeting her until we are settled in another home, he has respected their decision at the moment.

 

 

I correspond via email with regards to everything and I've already got a lawyer in place.... Will only use him if really necessary as money is really tight, but I'm ready to go if needed.... Not looking forward to those next stages as things a really stained as it is and we've not even started talking money yet

I'm pretty sure he'll step up once they meet the GF, which isn't right but as you say at least they will have their dad back properly in their lives.

 

Thanks for all your help and info, much appreciated

 

Glad to hear about your results! That must have been one hell of a wait!! Can't begin to think what you've been thinking whilst waiting.... Those test/results take time don't they?

Edited April 4, 2013 by Shocked Suzie

[sabre80]

Rule one:

never bad-mouth your ex-spouse to your kids.

 

Rule two: never be a bridge between your ex-spouse and the kids.

It's not your job to make allowances, or amends for HIS behaviour.

 

Rule three: Whatever opinions they formulate about your ex-spouse, is their prerogative. Don't try to calm it, rationalise it, explain it or diffuse it. They feel what they feel, and they have every right to feel it if they want to.

 

Rule four: If they want to give your ex-spouse a piece of their mind, let them. And as for agreeing to see him? let them lead that, not you.

 

Rule five: You - be the best parent you can be, for you and your kids. But don't ever think or believe you have to play both roles. It's hard enough being a mum without having to be the dad as well.

 

Tara this is some of the best advice I have read on this site yet.

[Calvin's wagon]

Hey, Suzie:)

 

How have you been doing these couple of days? Did you go to karaoke or do sth else fun for you?

 

I was glad to read your last post and the good things inside them! Regarding the lawyer - have you checked if there are any pro bono lawyers or legal counsellors (perhaps run by law students..) or support groups for separated/betrayed spouses/parents? So you could turn to them while keeping your lawyer in reserve?

 

I think it's better that your kids are teenagers, as opposed to 4 or 8 years old. Well, not "better", but "less bad"...

 

I wanted to ask you if you would perhaps be willing & have time to post your thoughts on this thread - http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/383712-my-wife-slut . In a way it is similar to your case, in that that kids are involved and hurting a lot because of one parent's infidelity, and I think your insight (especially regarding how to help kids) could be really helpful to him & his kids (some of his kids are teenagers, some younger).

 

Looking forward to hearing from you, it's always a pleasure:)

 

P.S.: (edit) Yeah, waiting is usually a hell (minimum of 6 weeks to get tested - I got tested the first time she told me she had cheated, and that was a long time ago). At least I was fairly certain that nothing would be wrong (we've broken up a really long time ago, but only recently did it hit me that she might have lied even more), but yeah, I couldn't completely trust her that she only cheated on me when she admitted, so there was a tiny part of me saying what if she had unprotected sex on multiple occasions, with total strangers,.. It really messed me up, but at least now I can slowly start to finish closing that chapter of my life. And I guess I learnt that next time no unprotected sex for a long time, even when I'll be in a long term relationship with someone whom I'll love&talk about kids&marriage. Oh well:)

Edited April 6, 2013 by Calvin's wagon
added the ps section

[Calvin's wagon]

Hi, just saw your post in the above mentioned thread - it's really nice of you that you took the time to help him, you're such a great&kind person!

[Shocked Suzie]

Hey, Suzie:)

 

How have you been doing these couple of days? Did you go to karaoke or do sth else fun for you?

 

I was glad to read your last post and the good things inside them! Regarding the lawyer - have you checked if there are any pro bono lawyers or legal counsellors (perhaps run by law students..) or support groups for separated/betrayed spouses/parents? So you could turn to them while keeping your lawyer in reserve?

 

I think it's better that your kids are teenagers, as opposed to 4 or 8 years old. Well, not "better", but "less bad"...

 

I wanted to ask you if you would perhaps be willing & have time to post your thoughts on this thread - http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/383712-my-wife-slut . In a way it is similar to your case, in that that kids are involved and hurting a lot because of one parent's infidelity, and I think your insight (especially regarding how to help kids) could be really helpful to him & his kids (some of his kids are teenagers, some younger).

 

Looking forward to hearing from you, it's always a pleasure:)

 

P.S.: (edit) Yeah, waiting is usually a hell (minimum of 6 weeks to get tested - I got tested the first time she told me she had cheated, and that was a long time ago). At least I was fairly certain that nothing would be wrong (we've broken up a really long time ago, but only recently did it hit me that she might have lied even more), but yeah, I couldn't completely trust her that she only cheated on me when she admitted, so there was a tiny part of me saying what if she had unprotected sex on multiple occasions, with total strangers,.. It really messed me up, but at least now I can slowly start to finish closing that chapter of my life. And I guess I learnt that next time no unprotected sex for a long time, even when I'll be in a long term relationship with someone whom

 

I'll love&talk about kids&marriage. Oh well:)

 

 

 

Thanks again Thanks to you and those that take the time to help

 

Funny I was talking today about this regards to lawyers, I'll look into it!

 

Had a really flat day! Think I'm tired and things moving forward to possible house sale, will be tough to say goodbye to my dream home, my planned life n hopes I'll get there in the end, just one of those days

 

I'm happy to help hope jack finds his way too

 

...nite

[Shocked Suzie]

Hi' date=' just saw your post in the above mentioned thread - it's really nice of you that you took the time to help him, you're such a great&kind person![/quote']

 

did you get my reply/PM?? not sure if its sending as its not showing up in my sent box? confused

[Calvin's wagon]

Hey, yup, I got it, thnx! I sent a reply and will send a longer one today! How have you been? How are the kids?

 

Btw, if you'll want any help looking online for pro bono lawyers, legal advice, ... in your region of Australia, let me know. Since law is my thing, I could perhaps help you look.