The Apple

[pureinheart]

LOL, I've heard a lot of different senarios concerning Adam and Eve and the Apple.

 

1) Where was Adam while Eve was being tempted?

 

2) Adam ate the apple because he loved Eve and knew her fate.

 

3) Satan knew the influence Eve had over Adam so targeted her.

 

I have many more that have been forgotten, but wanted to start this thread because Eve has taken a lot of flack over time concerning this matter...and so has Adam. If we were in their shoes, would we have eaten the apple? My answer would be yes, a lot sooner than they did even.

 

Anyway I'm interested in what you guys think...

[M30USA]

LOL, I've heard a lot of different senarios concerning Adam and Eve and the Apple.

 

1) Where was Adam while Eve was being tempted?

 

Satan probably targeted Eve when she was alone. I'm sure it was intentional. Anybody is weaker when singled out.

 

2) Adam ate the apple because he loved Eve and knew her fate.

 

This popular view, I believe, was started by John Milton's famous book/poem called "Paradise Lost". I don't see any biblical basis for it. Truthfully I think that, just like most married men today, he was a coward and afraid to go against what his wife said.

 

If ANYTHING, there is biblical basis for believing than mankind would not have fallen AT ALL if Adam refused his wife's suggestion. You will notice God didn't bring judgement until HE did it as well. If Adam refused, I believe Eve's mistake would have been covered and overlooked.

 

3) Satan knew the influence Eve had over Adam so targeted her.

 

I believe he knew Adam would follow her. Hitler even knew this same idea, which is why he was quoted as saying that anyone who wants to control a society must first target the women.

Edited March 21, 2013 by M30USA

[pureinheart]

Satan probably targeted Eve when she was alone. I'm sure it was intentional. Anybody is weaker when singled out.

 

 

 

This popular view, I believe, was started by John Milton's famous book/poem called "Paradise Lost". I don't see any biblical basis for it. Truthfully I think that, just like most married men today, he was a coward and afraid to go against what his wife said.

 

If ANYTHING, there is biblical basis for believing than mankind would not have fallen AT ALL if Adam refused his wife's suggestion. You will notice God didn't bring judgement until HE did it as well. If Adam refused, I believe Eve's mistake would have been covered and overlooked.

 

 

 

I believe he knew Adam would follow her. Hitler even knew this same idea, which is why he was quoted as saying that anyone who wants to control a society must first target the women.

 

I was so hoping you would post, and am really interested in what you say.

 

Wow, I didn't know a book had been written about Adams love for Eve...lol, that was my own thought and had never heard it before!

 

Bold- wow this explanation is quite intriguing, and you are Biblically right- gonna have to chew on that for a bit- God did say that "whoever" eats though...

 

This is interesting what you said M30!

[M30USA]

Yea, but "Paradise Lost" is a really difficult read. Not only because the subject matter but also because it's written in Old English with zillions of references to mythological stories outside the Bible.

[OpenBook]

1) Where was Adam while Eve was being tempted?

 

2) Adam ate the apple because he loved Eve and knew her fate.

 

3) Satan knew the influence Eve had over Adam so targeted her.

 

and 4) God knew exactly what was going to happen. After all, we're talking about GOD here. Right? He set the whole thing up. I struggle with #4. I struggle with the whole meaning of the story of Adam and Eve. I've always assumed it is meant to illustrate that women are weaker and trouble ensues when the woman leads the man. Sigh. Been fighting against THAT dichotomy my whole life.

[TheFinalWord]

1) Where was Adam while Eve was being tempted?

 

2) Adam ate the apple because he loved Eve and knew her fate.

 

3) Satan knew the influence Eve had over Adam so targeted her.

 

I have many more that have been forgotten, but wanted to start this thread because Eve has taken a lot of flack over time concerning this matter...and so has Adam. If we were in their shoes, would we have eaten the apple? My answer would be yes, a lot sooner than they did even.

 

Anyway I'm interested in what you guys think...

 

Very interesting PIH! I will give my two cents

 

1) He was with her. Probably standing there like an idiot letting Eve take the risk. haha

 

She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

 

2) Adam ate because he wanted to follow his own lusts. He threw Eve under the bus the minute he got called out lol (tell tale sign of guilt)

 

3) That could be! But at the end of the day, we each make the choice to sin on our own.

 

If you study this passage in 1 John 2, I think you will notice something pretty intriguing...

 

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

 

Now please compare that to Genesis 3

 

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food (lust of the flesh) and pleasing to the eye (lust of the eyes), and also desirable for gaining wisdom (the pride of life), she took some and ate it.

 

It's pretty interesting b/c using this scripture we can pretty much discern every sin and explain its origin...even those following false gospels..

 

But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

 

Both men and women are supposed to submit to one another. But there are different functions of the man and the woman. I know I wish the women were in charge. lol Let someone else do it. Leadership is a tough burden, and God holds men to a certain standard. And often men fail, which is the worst part b/c we undermines our own authority. Following is much more freeing. But to follow you have to trust. Just like with us believers following God is very freeing, as Charles Stanley always says "Just obey God and leave all the consequences to him"...very freeing! The burden of leadership is on God and he is glad to take it. Very simple, just like accepting and following the Lord Jesus. But have you noticed how both men and women resist the role they are assigned? Many men resist being leaders and are lazy and many use their authority to manipulate women into sex these days. Christ is the only one who submitted perfectly. He was equal with God (just like men are equal with women) and did not consider submission to God robbery or something to be despised (Phil. 2)

 

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!

Edited March 22, 2013 by TheFinalWord

[M30USA]

She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

 

Oh, DANG!

 

TFW busts out the FACTS! You learned me something.

[M30USA]

TFW,

 

Your parallel between 1 John 2 and Genesis 3 is very insightful. To think that the "pride of life" and loving the things in the world is the ROOT CAUSE of the fall of man is eye-opening (pun intended).

 

The most difficult thing for me to do is relate to people exactly WHY the "pride of life" is not from the Father and is the cause of our fall. I mean, seriously, the non-believing world thinks this is what it's all about. Work, buy things, eat, drink, be merry, etc. To suggest the idea of 1 John 2 to them is to seem like a party pooper. Or, worse yet, negative. It seems that being "negative" in our culture is the most unforgiveable sin there is. You know what I mean? What kind of awful person, they say, would argue with someone who says to love life?

[TheFinalWord]

TFW,

 

Your parallel between 1 John 2 and Genesis 3 is very insightful. To think that the "pride of life" and loving the things in the world is the ROOT CAUSE of the fall of man is eye-opening (pun intended).

 

The most difficult thing for me to do is relate to people exactly WHY the "pride of life" is not from the Father and is the cause of our fall. I mean, seriously, the non-believing world thinks this is what it's all about. Work, buy things, eat, drink, be merry, etc. To suggest the idea of 1 John 2 to them is to seem like a party pooper. Or, worse yet, negative. It seems that being "negative" in our culture is the most unforgiveable sin there is. You know what I mean? What kind of awful person, they say, would argue with someone who says to love life?

 

Glad it helped! A pastor showed me that a long time ago Can't take full credit.

 

In regards to your second paragraph. Good point. Well I don't think it is something you can "argue" into someone b/c the only way to see this world as God sees it is to experience his love. God loved us so much he gave his only son. Until we experience God's love and get a taste of how God loves us, we won't see the world like he does.

 

You can't argue love into a person. That's why Paul said you can have all knowledge, all faith, do all the good deeds and without love, it is nothing.

 

And I think we have a hard time explaining to people about how God views the world b/c people don't know the love of God. And sadly, Christians are not always very good at manifesting it (we're supposed to be the ambassadors for Christ). The love of God is where the real revelation is at. When people know and experience the love of God, and how much they really mean to him, it is makes tangible what Paul said that everything is like garbage compared to the knowledge of Christ. Until that revelation comes, it is not really possible to convince anyone.

 

Recognizing and receiving God's love is the first revelation necessary to see the world as God sees it. And even when that happens, it can take a lifetime of training from the Holy Spirit to teach us how to walk as Christ walked (thankfully he is very patient, with me most of all! I don't think I could have put up with me this long lol).

[3blindmice]

I also think it is #4. Not only was our introduction to sin true that apple and Eve. Our redemption came through purity and Mary. God is awesome!

 

I thought sin was not mentioned in the bible until Cain killed his brother.

[M30USA]

I thought sin was not mentioned in the bible until Cain killed his brother.

 

That was the first murder. The first act of sin was when Eve believed what Satan told her over what God commanded. This belief then turned into disobedience.

[BetheButterfly]

LOL, I've heard a lot of different senarios concerning Adam and Eve and the Apple.

 

1) Where was Adam while Eve was being tempted?

 

First of all, noone knows what fruit exactly was on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. While apples are specifically mentioned in the Bible, the exact kind of fruit on that tree was not mentioned in Genesis 3.

 

The following verses where apples are mentioned are used in figurative language, which is interesting: Deuteronomy 32:10, Psalm 17:8, Proverbs 7:2, Zechariah 2:8 are about "apple of... eye", which is a really beautiful expression of care for whoever/whatever is called that.

 

There's a song I LOVE about "whoever touches you, touches the apple of my eye" by Benny Hester:

 

 

Song of Solomon has a few references to apples: real ones, as part of descriptions of the love and beloved descriptions of each other. It's really cool.

 

About where Adam was, Genesis 3:6 says he was with her.

 

My husband, when we have talked about this, has a serious issue with Adam not protecting Eve from the apparition tempting her to disobey the one and only "No" command God gave them.

 

 

2) Adam ate the apple because he loved Eve and knew her fate.

I think that's possible, though stronger love would have loved her enough to have told the apparition in the form of a snake to go take a hike! Adam had the authority and ability to do that, my husband thinks. Maybe he got lost though in the deceitful words? I wonder if this was the only "animal" that talked in Adam and Eve's time? Maybe that was intriguing to them. If the snake was the only animal in their time that talked, why? How?

 

The only other place that I can think of in Biblical history where an animal talked was in

 

Numbers 22:28 Then the Lord opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”

 

I want God to open my darling dog's mouth!!! (And no I would never ever beat my darling dog like mean ole Balaam beat his donkey. I do wish she could understand all my words and she could communicate more with me and I with her... it makes me sad that she doesn't understand when I tell her why I am going somewhere and leaving her for a short period of time, and also why she needs a bath... she hates baths and I really wish she wouldn't roll in yucky stuff... I've told her over and over again that if she would not roll in stuff, I wouldn't have to bathe her so often... I'm sorry... I'm rambling but I animals and really wish many species could talk in more than just barks,grunts, squeals, roars...) I am a hypocrite though in that I eat chicken and fish. My "excuse" is that other animals eat other animals, so that's why humans can too, but I really do wish that no animals, including humans, ate other animals. I think that before the fall, animals didn't eat each other, and humans were vegetarians! That is the ideal, in my opinion!

 

Two of my all time favorite verses is where it seems that animals are vegetarians, including wolves , lions, cougars, and snakes!

Isaiah 11:6

 

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

 

Isaiah 65:25The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain,” says the Lord.

 

 

 

3) Satan knew the influence Eve had over Adam so targeted her.

I think so. Women have tremendous power.

 

I have many more that have been forgotten, but wanted to start this thread because Eve has taken a lot of flack over time concerning this matter...and so has Adam. If we were in their shoes, would we have eaten the apple? My answer would be yes, a lot sooner than they did even.

I think it would have been very tempting and yes I probably would too. I have heard Atheists say what's the bad thing in wanting to know more. I personally think the bad thing is in what one is wanting to know. If I wanted, I could learn about how to steal from people, but I don't want to. Why? Stealing is evil. At that time, i don't know if Adam and Eve even knew stealing was evil... all they knew was they were in charge of the animals and tending the garden of Eden, and that God said "No" to eating from one specific tree... how hard is that???

 

The knowledge of good and evil brought forth a lot of knowledge of evil... and good to combat the evil.

 

However, good to combat the evil carries the risk of being hurt since evil doesn't want to be conquered, which is why many people who have fought against the evil of slavery have been killed, including Elijah Lovejoy, and many who have peaceably fought against the evil of have been killed, including Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.... and Jesus Christ. However, Christians believe that our Heavenly Father rose Jesus Christ rose from the dead, and that he will triumph over evil!!!

 

Anyway I'm interested in what you guys think..

This is an interesting topic!!! I really wish I could stay on loveshack and follow/participate more, but this weekend is busy and on Monday I have a new project that requires more time. So, I'm taking a break from Loveshack for awhile, I don't know how long.

 

I love you guys and am so happy to "know" you through this social network!!! Peace and Blessings!!!

Edited March 22, 2013 by BetheButterfly

[3blindmice]

That was the first murder. The first act of sin was when Eve believed what Satan told her over what God commanded. This belief then turned into disobedience.

 

Speaking of disobedience, they were both punished when God kicked them out of the garden. Eve (and all women) was punished further through painful child birth.

 

Also I don't know how to do 2 quotes but the snake didn't speak vocally but mentally. Just like the bible says you'll not be fooled by people trying to harm you when in the power of Christ, you will know what their intentions are. (Not in those exact words but close to that) I believe you hear their thoughts as though they were spoken.

[M30USA]

Speaking of disobedience, they were both punished when God kicked them out of the garden. Eve (and all women) was punished further through painful child birth.

 

Also I don't know how to do 2 quotes but the snake didn't speak vocally but mentally. Just like the bible says you'll not be fooled by people trying to harm you when in the power of Christ, you will know what their intentions are. (Not in those exact words but close to that) I believe you hear their thoughts as though they were spoken.

 

How do you know the Serpent spoke to Eve "mentally" and not vocally? I understand most people hold your view because it's more "rational", but is there Biblical basis for it? I can give you plenty of example of other people in Bible who heard audible voices: 1) the group of people at Jesus' baptism who all heard voice coming from sky, 2) Paul on road to Damascus who heard Jesus' voice in a blinding light from sky--which was heard by his travelling party as well, 3) Jesus, himself, who was God on earth spoke audibly.

[3blindmice]

I used the term sin because I view disobedience as sin. That's just me...don't blame God;).

 

I think God didn't call eating the apple sin because no blood was spilled. Blood gets the attention of bad beings (non-human) like the moth man, demons, etc.

 

The moth man was the creature people saw before the bridge came down with all the people on it. They made a movie about it, not sure but the movie may be titled the moth man.

[3blindmice]

How do you know the Serpent spoke to Eve "mentally" and not vocally? I understand most people hold your view because it's more "rational", but is there Biblical basis for it? I can give you plenty of example of other people in Bible who heard audible voices: 1) the group of people at Jesus' baptism who all heard voice coming from sky, 2) Paul on road to Damascus who heard Jesus' voice in a blinding light from sky--which was heard by his travelling party as well, 3) Jesus, himself, who was God on earth spoke audibly.

 

Yes we were made in God's image so he (God) would have vocal cords to use, but animals can't make the sounds like we do, they don't have our vocal cords.

 

I actually tested a jahova (can't spell it) witness that came to my house, I thought bad things about her weight and watched her reactions. I did it because I wanted to make sure that she was with God because I had many bad experiences with people calling themselves Christen. Yes, she heard my thoughts, then I scolded myself and she forgave me. All this was done without any words spoken.

[pureinheart]

Very interesting PIH! I will give my two cents

 

1) He was with her. Probably standing there like an idiot letting Eve take the risk. haha

 

She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

 

2) Adam ate because he wanted to follow his own lusts. He threw Eve under the bus the minute he got called out lol (tell tale sign of guilt)

 

3) That could be! But at the end of the day, we each make the choice to sin on our own.

 

If you study this passage in 1 John 2, I think you will notice something pretty intriguing...

 

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

 

Now please compare that to Genesis 3

 

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food (lust of the flesh) and pleasing to the eye (lust of the eyes), and also desirable for gaining wisdom (the pride of life), she took some and ate it.

 

It's pretty interesting b/c using this scripture we can pretty much discern every sin and explain its origin...even those following false gospels..

 

But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

 

Both men and women are supposed to submit to one another. But there are different functions of the man and the woman. I know I wish the women were in charge. lol Let someone else do it. Leadership is a tough burden, and God holds men to a certain standard. And often men fail, which is the worst part b/c we undermines our own authority. Following is much more freeing. But to follow you have to trust. Just like with us believers following God is very freeing, as Charles Stanley always says "Just obey God and leave all the consequences to him"...very freeing! The burden of leadership is on God and he is glad to take it. Very simple, just like accepting and following the Lord Jesus. But have you noticed how both men and women resist the role they are assigned? Many men resist being leaders and are lazy and many use their authority to manipulate women into sex these days. Christ is the only one who submitted perfectly. He was equal with God (just like men are equal with women) and did not consider submission to God robbery or something to be despised (Phil. 2)

 

In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross!

 

Duhhhhhh, I forgot that he was with her:rolleyes: This is why I usually win "Space Case (word divided on purpose for emphasis) of the Day" award.

 

TFW you cite, "let someone else do it"...this is normal for most of the people I have had personal relationships in my life...I was the someone else in most cases...which when I would hear the flack Eve got ...well it kinda hit personal, you know? My response would be, well where was Adam then? Back then I had a subconscious chip on my shoulder.

 

Now I hold neither accountable, but hold myself accountable...I would have done far worse and mostlikely would have eaten the whole tree...bark, roots and all.

Edited March 22, 2013 by pureinheart

[pureinheart]

and 4) God knew exactly what was going to happen. After all, we're talking about GOD here. Right? He set the whole thing up. I struggle with #4. I struggle with the whole meaning of the story of Adam and Eve. I've always assumed it is meant to illustrate that women are weaker and trouble ensues when the woman leads the man. Sigh. Been fighting against THAT dichotomy my whole life.

 

Yea, me too...and subconsciouly the reason for starting this thread...not sure.

 

I do differ with you love, due to my belief in the chain of command. But in rereading what you said have to say I think the circumstances are important as to what circumstances are women leading men. I think womens leadership is important and not to be dissed. Seriously, I have to do more studying concerning what the Word says on this and then make sure the enemy isn't "helping" me with the studies! So will seek divine revelation of which I trust the most. I do know (like TFW said) men are held to much higher standards by God.

 

I really think the meaning stems from mans need for a Savior. Given perfect circumstances, we all still fall short. This is illustrated once again with the 1000yr Millenium (after the Trib).

[TheFinalWord]

Duhhhhhh, I forgot that he was with her:rolleyes: This is why I usually win "Space Case (word divided on purpose for emphasis) of the Day" award.

 

TFW you cite, "let someone else do it"...this is normal for most of the people I have had personal relationships in my life...I was the someone else in most cases...which when I would hear the flack Eve got ...well it kinda hit personal, you know? My response would be, well where was Adam then? Back then I had a subconscious chip on my shoulder.

 

Now I hold neither accountable, but hold myself accountable...I would have done far worse and mostlikely would have eaten the whole tree...bark, roots and all.

 

haha no, that is hard to see in the text IMHO. I think you win interesting posts of the LS forum for the day award. You are always very humble and willing to put yourself out there. Not many people will do that. It's like when the teacher says "don't feel embarrassed to ask, b/c 10 others probably have the same question:

 

Yes, I have noticed a lot of women take on a lot of people's burdens. The inability to say "no" is a major cause of stress. This is where our greatest blessings can be our greatest curse. Having that serving nature, you epitomize Christ; but at the same time, when we don't know when to stop, we can drain ourselves. You can see how Christ handled it. People were receiving from him all day long. When he got tired, he knew his limits (submitted to the Father and stopped when he said to stop; Jesus also knew his mission which is a major way to stay on track) and He would withdrawal from the crowds and go up into a mountain to pray.

 

Yet the news about him spread all the more, so that crowds of people came to hear him and to be healed of their sicknesses. But Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed.

[pie2]

Oh, DANG!

 

TFW busts out the FACTS! You learned me something.

 

M30, has your view of women changed at all because of this (like that we are so much more easily led astray than men)?

[pureinheart]

How do you know the Serpent spoke to Eve "mentally" and not vocally? I understand most people hold your view because it's more "rational", but is there Biblical basis for it? I can give you plenty of example of other people in Bible who heard audible voices: 1) the group of people at Jesus' baptism who all heard voice coming from sky, 2) Paul on road to Damascus who heard Jesus' voice in a blinding light from sky--which was heard by his travelling party as well, 3) Jesus, himself, who was God on earth spoke audibly.

 

Audible voices for Biblical purposes are real...just don't tell the doc, as they will put you (you in general) away:D

[M30USA]

M30, has your view of women changed at all because of this (like that we are so much more easily led astray than men)?

 

It didn't change Paul's view when he wrote that women are the "weaker vessel". Though his point wasn't to denigrate women but rather show its mens' job to keep them from getting led astray.

[M30USA]

Audible voices for Biblical purposes are real...just don't tell the doc, as they will put you (you in general) away:D

 

Look, if military interrogation technology is already experimenting with sonic tools to produce voices in people's minds, it's tiddly-winks for God and angels.

[pureinheart]

haha no, that is hard to see in the text IMHO. I think you win interesting posts of the LS forum for the day award. You are always very humble and willing to put yourself out there. Not many people will do that. It's like when the teacher says "don't feel embarrassed to ask, b/c 10 others probably have the same question:

 

Yes, I have noticed a lot of women take on a lot of people's burdens. The inability to say "no" is a major cause of stress. This is where our greatest blessings can be our greatest curse. Having that serving nature, you epitomize Christ; but at the same time, when we don't know when to stop, we can drain ourselves. You can see how Christ handled it. People were receiving from him all day long. When he got tired, he knew his limits (submitted to the Father and stopped when he said to stop; Jesus also knew his mission which is a major way to stay on track) and He would withdrawal from the crowds and go up into a mountain to pray.

 

Yet the news about him spread all the more, so that crowds of people came to hear him and to be healed of their sicknesses. But Jesus often withdrew to lonely places and prayed.

 

This is invaluable advice and MUCH appreciated. "Jesus knew His mission"...personally, I think we all have somewhat of an idea what our mission is and I think "being helpfull" can be a good way to deture from ones actual mission. I do this all of the time...I wish I could be more like Jesus:(

 

Have you been told what a blessing you are lately TFW? You are a blessing. Bigtime:)

[pureinheart]

Look, if military interrogation technology is already experimenting with sonic tools to produce voices in people's minds, it's tiddly-winks for God and angels.

 

Most definitely:D LOL, I have heard audible voices before from the Lord. One time I was having a medical difficulty and my friend that was a nurse took me to ER...she told me under no uncertain terms to tell them that I hear voices, lest could assure myself a stay in the mental ward.

 

I had heard M30, that they (military?) are also trying to read peoples minds...Lord have mercy, they don't want to read mine:lmao: