Is he fishing, and should I directly answer him?

[Star Gazer]

Novel ahead! (I'm layed over and bored at the airport...)

 

So, I've been out on two dates with someone I'm pretty excited about. I know, it's only been two dates, but it just feels...right. I'm having some of my typical dating anxiety, but overall, I have a really, really good feeling about him. We have great chemistry, make each other laugh a ton, are totally compatible and want the same things. He's a genuinely good guy.

 

He's a little shy sometimes, but he's been pretty open with me about what he's looking for: a long-term relationship leading towards marriage, built on a strong foundation of friendship and trust, with the passion and heat of romance as well. He wants it very badly, but only with the right person. He's had two long-term relationships, 4 years and 6 years long. He prefers relationships over dating around. He's experienced some situations where the women he's dated haven't valued him - they've cheated (his most recent LTR), or not made him a priority, or just acted like they didn't care. He said he's looking for a woman who thinks that he's absolutely the right person for her. He's said that when he's into someone, he's into someone. I actually told him about the most recent guy I dated, who had told me he was a one-woman-at-a-time guy, who turned out to be dating multiple women. To that, he said that he doesn't think dating multiple people is the best approach in getting to know someone, and thinks what that guy did was really lame and disrespectful.

 

He's an open book, and has said that he likes/wants to see/observe the behaviors from a woman that many women are afraid of showing for fear of looking needy or like they're chasing - that is, he likes when they initiate, when they do little things for him, when they're nurturing, when they show through their actions that they care about him... and he likes to see this fairly early on. (That is how I prefer to be, personally, but I hold back for the very reason he stated.) He's not the kind of guy who needs the chase. He specifically said his favorite part of the dating process is all of the good stuff that happens once you're "all in" - when the walls come down and you really become truly intimate. He also won't sleep with someone until/unless he wants to be "all in" with her.

 

Before we met, we talked on the phone a couple times. We we're both really excited about seeing each other. We text throughout the day about big and little things. Our first date lasted 5 hours (dinner, just tons of conversation). At the end of the first date, he said he liked me and wanted to see me again really soon. We made plans for two days later. We went to a basketball game, then drove to look at a piece of property he's interested in (we share a dream of buying a plot and building our own house), and then back to his place for a little making out. I had told him before that I want a guy who would be there for me at the airport sometimes when I come home because I travel so much and never have had a guy pick me up. His response? "When's your next flight?" This morning, he took me to the airport and kissed me goodbye, and is picking me up when I get back.

 

The whole thing has been so comfortable and so natural that it is a little unnerving. I'm having almost a sort of, "Is this what they mean when they say 'You just know'?"

 

So... Here's the question. We met on Match, and we joke about checking up on each other - "Match stalking." He's made several jokes about all the guys he thinks I'm talking to/dating. He actually accidentally saw a three-page text I received from a Match guy (bizarre, I know), and it's since become a running joke he brings up. He finds other ways of bringing up other guys all the time, you know, the typical: "You and all your boyfriends" kind of thing. I kinda just joke back with something like, "Oh yeah, they're lined up around the block!" or something to divert a direct response. When I have teased him in return, he's said that he's only "lightweight" talking to one other girl, but doesn't seem interested in her. I kinda feel like I've been avoiding having a direct conversation about it, only because I'm hesitant to make myself vulnerable. It's scary.

 

Anyway, I get the sense that he's fishing to know what his competition is like.

The truth is that while there are guys asking me out, I'm not accepting any invitations because I just don't want to. I've come to learn that for myself, multi-dating just doesn't work. I can't get to know someone when I'm balancing more than one guy. In addition, my work and social schedule make it difficult for me to see a guy regularly in the first place, so if I was balancing more than one, it would become stagnant.

 

We've talked about the importance of communication and he's stressed that he wants me to be "open to him." So, I want to just tell him that I'm not dating anyone else and not interested in dating anyone else... Not to get any sort of response from him (I'd be okay with him meeting and going on dates with other women right now, as it's still early - I just don't want to). Rather, I'd be telling him just to be totally open and honest from the beginning and not play any games. I want to start off on the right foot with this one.

 

Should I?

[Yookie]

As long as you don't pressure him to do the same, then why not?

[FitChick]

Tell him you think the man should set the tone and pace of the relationship based on your experience in the past (whether that's true or not). Say you have always been the one to suggest exclusivity and the guys went along with it but, in retrospect, you think they should have been the ones to suggest it because it would have meant they were fully invested instead of just being compliant. Put it in your own words.

 

I think your main problem might be your traveling. He mentioned that other women didn't make him a priority.

[Star Gazer]

Tell him you think the man should set the tone and pace of the relationship based on your experience in the past (whether that's true or not). Say you have always been the one to suggest exclusivity and the guys went along with it but, in retrospect, you think they should have been the ones to suggest it because it would have meant they were fully invested instead of just being compliant. Put it in your own words.

 

I think your main problem might be your traveling. He mentioned that other women didn't make him a priority.

 

Good idea about how to put it.

 

And you may be right about the traveling. It's going to slow down, but the next few weeks are kinda busy and he did make some offhand comment wondering if I even had time for him...

 

How can I combat that? I can/will make time for him.

[Star Gazer]

As long as you don't pressure him to do the same, then why not?

 

I guess my thought is that by just telling him that he may still feel pressured.

[tbf]

He's had two long-term relationships, 4 years and 6 years long. He prefers relationships over dating around.

Out of curiosity, how old is he? Has he ever been engaged?

[Star Gazer]

Out of curiosity, how old is he? Has he ever been engaged?

 

He's 35. He was going to propose to his last LTR when he caught her cheating, red handed. He was blindsided. Her reason? "Everything was just going so well that I thought maybe it was TOO good; I don't know what I want." That happened at year 4, and he tried to make it work for the next 2 years but he just couldn't get over her random betrayal.

[tuxedo cat]

Call me an eternal pessimist but something about this is setting my spidey sense a-tingling.

 

I guess I think it's odd that he is telling you so much about what he's looking for in a woman after only two dates. Is this typical? Could be a sign of controlling personality. I'm also skeptical of positive things that people emphasize about themselves unbidden when you're first getting to know them. There may be an element of protesting too much.

 

What he said about other women taking him for granted could be a faint yellow flag: is he one of these guys who always paints himself as a victim? Even if she did cheat why is he telling you this so early on?

 

Another minor flag: he tells you he doesn't multidate and yet he drops that he's exchanging light correspondence with another woman? Is he trying to make you jealous?

 

I'm going to reserve judgment but I am curious to know more about why his previous two relationships ended.

 

By the way I don't think that you should mention exclusivity even if it's just on your end at this point. After only a couple of dates most guys will feel subtly pressured by such a declaration. I would basically ignore what he said about how he wants you to act in terms of initiating and just be yourself, do whatever comes naturally.

[tbf]

He's 35. He was going to propose to his last LTR when he caught her cheating, red handed. He was blindsided. Her reason? "Everything was just going so well that I thought maybe it was TOO good; I don't know what I want." That happened at year 4, and he tried to make it work for the next 2 years but he just couldn't get over her random betrayal.

Sorry for grilling you but one more question. How long ago did they break up and who was the dumper?

[Star Gazer]

Call me an eternal pessimist but something about this is setting my spidey sense a-tingling.

 

I guess I think it's odd that he is telling you so much about what he's looking for in a woman after only two dates. Is this typical? Could be a sign of controlling personality. I'm also skeptical of positive things that people emphasize about themselves unbidden when you're first getting to know them. There may be an element of protesting too much.

 

What he said about other women taking him for granted could be a faint yellow flag: is he one of these guys who always paints himself as a victim? Even if she did cheat why is he telling you this so early on?

 

Another minor flag: he tells you he doesn't multidate and yet he drops that he's exchanging light correspondence with another woman? Is he trying to make you jealous?

 

I'm going to reserve judgment but I am curious to know more about why his previous two relationships ended.

 

By the way I don't think that you should mention exclusivity even if it's just on your end at this point. After only a couple of dates most guys will feel subtly pressured by such a declaration. I would basically ignore what he said about how he wants you to act in terms of initiating and just be yourself, do whatever comes naturally.

 

It all came up very naturally an organically during a 5 hour dinner date. There was no victim-hood or controlling nature about it. He's very frank and sort of just, "This is what I'm looking for, no point in hiding that from you, in case you're not looking for the same thing."

 

As for the other girl, he said he doesn't think multi-dating is a good approach, not that he doesn't get to know two women via a website at once. He shared that he'd been talking to another girl during our first date. I don't expect him to cut off all correspondence with others BEFORE we even meet.

[Star Gazer]

Sorry for grilling you but one more question. How long ago did they break up and who was the dumper?

 

The final breakup was in November (but it had been dead for quite some time before that), he ended it.

 

He also dated someone else in January and February, someone who he just didn't think was into him or made him a priority (and from his descriptions, I agree).

Edited March 22, 2013 by Star Gazer

[Imajerk17]

Wait a couple more dates. If he is this wonderful he will be this wonderful after Date 4. or 5 (and not just after Date 2 or 3).

 

Although if you had told him now that would be easily OK too. The right guy wouldn't run, but some guys do come on strong as lose interest and waiting a little will give you time to see the kind of guy he really is.

[tuxedo cat]

If he brings it up again why not tell him exactly what you told us: "The truth is that while there are guys asking me out, I'm not accepting any invitations because I just don't want to. I've come to learn that for myself, multi-dating just doesn't work. I can't get to know someone when I'm balancing more than one guy."

 

That communicates you think he's a priority without implying you want a relationship with him immediately.

[tbf]

The final breakup was in November (but it had been dead for quite some time before that), he ended it.

Working this backwards, he began his last relationship at around 28 or 29. Four years later, he would have been 32 or 33 when she cheated. What's interesting is the timing of her cheating and the timing of when he was about to propose. Why would it take so long for him to propose, factoring in the age he began his last relationship and how perfect it was?

 

As you can probably tell, I've clocked into analyst mode. The reason for it is because this guy gives off the LS "nice guy" vibe. Notice how there's nothing wrong with him and that he's setup how he wishes you to behave, to prove yourself to him?

 

I'm not sure how open he's being with you but it's possible he hasn't done much soul-searching about himself, so his behaviour might be a result of projection and defense mechanisms.

[Kamille]

I think the issue is that he's moving too fast, IMO. Sounds like you find this confusing because the things you naturally do, wait one person at a time, are getting conflated with a desire to... please him? comfort him? Not lose him? I'm not sure, but to me it sounds like two things are getting tangled.

 

On the one hand there is this: what you're comfortable with, which has nothing to do with him. It's part of you doing what you need to do for yourself:

 

 

 

Anyway, I get the sense that he's fishing to know what his competition is like.

The truth is that while there are guys asking me out, I'm not accepting any invitations because I just don't want to. I've come to learn that for myself, multi-dating just doesn't work. I can't get to know someone when I'm balancing more than one guy. In addition, my work and social schedule make it difficult for me to see a guy regularly in the first place, so if I was balancing more than one, it would become stagnant.

 

Have you told him this? If so, that settles the question of him fishing to know if you're seeing other people. It doesn't mean you're comitting to him, however. It just means that, for now, he has your full attention.

 

On the other hand, there is this - which is where I feel like he is moving too fast:

 

We've talked about the importance of communication and he's stressed that he wants me to be "open to him."

 

 

This, and the "he likes women who do this this and that" bugs me. Trust is something that you build in a relationship. I'm glad he's working at making you see you can trust him (airport etc) but you can't force yourself to open up to him. It'll happen if it happens, all in due time.

[tuxedo cat]

I agree.

 

I've had a couple of guys say similar things to me at the start of a relationship: I like a woman who initiates, my ex mistreated me, I'm always being taken for granted by women.

 

Well, they both turned out to be misrepresenting themselves in that they weren't nice guys and they responded positively to the very push-pull behavior they declared themselves to be so disgusted by. (Made me wonder if they hated it so much because they knew it had power over them.)

 

Of course that's a tiny sample size but please just be careful before getting too attached.

 

My intuition is that a truly nice guy would just get to know you as a person without setting up a dynamic where you have to prove yourself as different from Most Other Women.

 

Good luck.

[clia]

We've talked about the importance of communication and he's stressed that he wants me to be "open to him." So, I want to just tell him that I'm not dating anyone else and not interested in dating anyone else... Not to get any sort of response from him (I'd be okay with him meeting and going on dates with other women right now, as it's still early - I just don't want to). Rather, I'd be telling him just to be totally open and honest from the beginning and not play any games. I want to start off on the right foot with this one.

 

Should I?

 

It's only been two dates. Two great dates, but nonetheless, two dates.

 

If it were me, I wouldn't proactively say "I'm not dating anyone else and not interested in it." He's had opportunities to ask you to be exclusive, but hasn't done so yet. So why put him at ease right now and let him know he doesn't have to do that? Why commit so early when he hasn't asked you to? I've had better luck with waiting for the guy to bring up exclusivity.

 

Picture this scenario: You say that, and he says "Oh, that's wonderful." And he keeps dating you. And he doesn't volunteer that he, too, isn't going to date anyone else. Then how do you feel?

 

Obviously if he asks directly, you tell the truth.

 

In the meantime, enjoy the ride.

[Star Gazer]

If he brings it up again why not tell him exactly what you told us: "The truth is that while there are guys asking me out, I'm not accepting any invitations because I just don't want to. I've come to learn that for myself, multi-dating just doesn't work. I can't get to know someone when I'm balancing more than one guy."

 

That communicates you think he's a priority without implying you want a relationship with him immediately.

 

That's almost exactly word for word what I've had on the tip of my tongue.

[Star Gazer]

I agree.

 

I've had a couple of guys say similar things to me at the start of a relationship: I like a woman who initiates, my ex mistreated me, I'm always being taken for granted by women.

 

Well, they both turned out to be misrepresenting themselves in that they weren't nice guys and they responded positively to the very push-pull behavior they declared themselves to be so disgusted by. (Made me wonder if they hated it so much because they knew it had power over them.)

 

Of course that's a tiny sample size but please just be careful before getting too attached.

 

My intuition is that a truly nice guy would just get to know you as a person without setting up a dynamic where you have to prove yourself as different from Most Other Women.

 

Good luck.

 

I really don't think he's doing that. All of this has come up in the context of us each sharing what sort of relationship dynamic we function best in. It's not like he's playing victim and telling me how I need to be. For example, we talked about the last girl he dated briefly, and something that bothered him was that they'd make plans, and she'd back out of them, and he was always the one tryin to see her, and she made little to no effort to reciprocate. He simply shared that he didn't like that, and that if her (or any girl's) fear was that my reciprocating or initiating he'd be put off or feel chased by her, she needn't worry, because he likes when he's certain of her interest.

[curlygirl40]

I think Tuxedo Cat is right on.

 

I always find, for me, it's best to just state what I find comfortable for me at each step and try NOT to put it in a way that makes it seem I expect the same in return. Because even if I do expect he'll be on the same page, it just feels like 2 or 3 dates in is too soon to ask for/expect exclusivity.

 

My guess is that he is more fishing to see what you are up to more than wanting 'permission' to be dating others or whatever.

 

If he's smitten, he's probably feeling the same feelings. Like he knows it's too soon to have a serious conversation about it, but yet he fears the competition so he's finding a joking way to bring it up.

 

But then (and I'm sure I might get blasted here and it might feel like game play to some...) don't you think in the beginning a little bit of mystery will do you some good?

 

It's not gender specific, both men and women do it. Where if you feel like you really have someone before you're sure about your feelings, sometimes you lose a little bit of interest.

 

Ugh. I hate dating. LOL

 

And on a lighter note, I am headed offline so I will stop stalking your threads today. Be safe on your trip

[Star Gazer]

I think the issue is that he's moving too fast, IMO. Sounds like you find this confusing because the things you naturally do, wait one person at a time, are getting conflated with a desire to... please him? comfort him? Not lose him? I'm not sure, but to me it sounds like two things are getting tangled.

 

On the one hand there is this: what you're comfortable with, which has nothing to do with him. It's part of you doing what you need to do for yourself:

 

 

Have you told him this? If so, that settles the question of him fishing to know if you're seeing other people. It doesn't mean you're comitting to him, however. It just means that, for now, he has your full attention.

 

No, I haven't told him, but that's what I wanted to tell him. I'm not saying anything about commitment, just that he has my full attention.

[Star Gazer]

I think Tuxedo Cat is right on.

 

I always find, for me, it's best to just state what I find comfortable for me at each step and try NOT to put it in a way that makes it seem I expect the same in return. Because even if I do expect he'll be on the same page, it just feels like 2 or 3 dates in is too soon to ask for/expect exclusivity.

 

Right.

 

My guess is that he is more fishing to see what you are up to more than wanting 'permission' to be dating others or whatever.

 

If he's smitten, he's probably feeling the same feelings. Like he knows it's too soon to have a serious conversation about it, but yet he fears the competition so he's finding a joking way to bring it up.

 

That's what I think it is too.

[Star Gazer]

Working this backwards, he began his last relationship at around 28 or 29. Four years later, he would have been 32 or 33 when she cheated. What's interesting is the timing of her cheating and the timing of when he was about to propose. Why would it take so long for him to propose, factoring in the age he began his last relationship and how perfect it was?

 

29 and 33, yes. He said he was comfortable with the way things were the first few years, and she was younger than him by 6 years, and seemed uninterested in a more serious commitment. Once he started feeling ready, and thinking she was ready too, he caught her cheating.

 

As you can probably tell, I've clocked into analyst mode. The reason for it is because this guy gives off the LS "nice guy" vibe. Notice how there's nothing wrong with him and that he's setup how he wishes you to behave, to prove yourself to him?

 

I'm not sure how open he's being with you but it's possible he hasn't done much soul-searching about himself, so his behaviour might be a result of projection and defense mechanisms.

 

You know, I don't know that he doesn't see anything wrong with him, but he's a pretty self-aware person from what I can tell. When someone's relationship ends because of cheating, I guess I allow them more latitude to not accept responsibility for it.

[dasein]

SG why are you dating right now? Why are you on match? Please don't consider another rebound relationship. Please consider taking some time off from dating. Good luck whatever you decide.

[Star Gazer]

SG why are you dating right now? Why are you on match? Please don't consider another rebound relationship. Please consider taking some time off from dating. Good luck whatever you decide.

 

I'm not rebounding. I'm honest to G-d totally over the last guy, there is not one ounce of feeling left.