Is he fishing, and should I directly answer him?

[tuxedo cat]

Nah, that's not it. I know what it was though.

 

At our first date 5-hour dinner, he talked about his family background and losses/abandonment he's experienced (mom left when he was 5 and didn't want him, his dad has been married 3 times and has never told him he loved him but he knows he does, the guy who took him under his wing and was a father figure died when he was a teen, and his mother's brother who was the next closest man in his life is currently on his death bed), and how that's made him long for/crave a deep, life-long love with a best friend who accepts him as is and loves him to his core, and to build a stable, solid family - basically, he wants what he never had growing up: the proverbial white picket fence, with nuclear, life-long family.

 

I can't tell you how much I related to what he was saying, I felt it deep down inside in my belly... there was actually a warming sensation in my entire abdomen. The things/emotions he was willing and able to share with me during that dinner made me feel really connected to him, like I understood him, and he'd understand me. So much so, that it kinda rattled me. I just kept staring at him, and he was like, "What?" and all I could really get out was, "I get it. I just, totally get it."

 

I think it's a mistake to build intimacy on having bad childhood experiences in common. I know it's easy to do because I've done it myself, but it never leads to happy places.

 

I don't want to generalize but I also think his very troubled sounding childhood would make it hard for anyone to give and receive love in a reciprocal fashion. It's quite possible that even though he had two long term girlfriends they were always a bit emotionally out of reach and this kept him hooked. He may crave reciprocal love but be totally unable to sustain it in practice.

 

This is why it's always a good idea to read between the lines when people tell you about themselves. What people think they want and what they actually want can be totally different.

[Star Gazer]

Were you ignored completely or were people just utterly noncommittal about your accomplishments and failures?

 

I mean, if you ran home and said, "Mommy! Daddy! I just got an A on my English test!" What did they say?

 

I was basically raised by my grandmother (motherly role/care taker) and mother (fatherly role/breadwinner). When I was young, I was coming home to my grammy, because my mom typically worked late or went to evening school. I don't recall ever really telling my grammy anything like that (and I was a stellar student), and my mom wasn't really there to come running home to to boast to. I don't remember straight A's being expected of me, but I got them anyway.

 

My grammy actually tried to dissuade me from things that required any amount of risk but that would reap great rewards for me, like trying out for swim team or debate or cheerleading (all of which I made), reasoning, "What if you don't make it? You'll be heartbroken."

[Star Gazer]

I think it's a mistake to build intimacy on having bad childhood experiences in common. I know it's easy to do because I've done it myself, but it never leads to happy places.

 

I don't want to generalize but I also think his very troubled sounding childhood would make it hard for anyone to give and receive love in a reciprocal fashion. It's quite possible that even though he had two long term girlfriends they were always a bit emotionally out of reach and this kept him hooked. He may crave reciprocal love but be totally unable to sustain it in practice.

 

This is why it's always a good idea to read between the lines when people tell you about themselves. What people think they want and what they actually want can be totally different.

 

Normally, I would have thought the same thing, but he also volunteered that he's spent some years working through all of this with a trained professional (as I have). He seemed quite self aware of his emotional hangups and foibles.

[Janesays]

So if I'm reading between the lines...your successes were ignored completely while your failures (even ones that didn't happen yet) were emphasized? Am I reading this right?

[Star Gazer]

So if I'm reading between the lines...your successes were ignored completely while your failures (even ones that didn't happen yet) were emphasized? Am I reading this right?

 

Well, I never failed at anything from my childhood through college and onto law school, as weird as that sounds. So, successes weren't really recognized, but neither were failures.

[Janesays]

Well, I never failed at anything from my childhood through college and onto law school, as weird as that sounds. So, successes weren't really recognized, but neither were failures.

 

But you were discouraged from certain things to avoid possible failure? It was even subtly suggested to you how you should feel? (Heart broken....as opposed to feeling inspired to work harder)

 

An no actual male role model? Or did you have a non traditional one like an uncle, grandfather, etc that you were especially close to?

[Star Gazer]

But you were discouraged from certain things to avoid possible failure? It was even subtly suggested to you how you should feel? (Heart broken....as opposed to feeling inspired to work harder)

 

Correct.

 

An no actual male role model? Or did you have a non traditional one like an uncle, grandfather, etc that you were especially close to?

 

Nope. My biological father left my mom when she was pregnant. She dated, but kept all her BFs away from me - I never met them.

 

I had two godfathers and a grandfather, but I wasn't close with any of them.

 

I also had another grandfather who adored me completely and would have jumped in front of a bullet for me, but he passed when I was 2 (my grammy's second husband). I often sense him, as though he's some sort of guardian.

[Ruby Slippers]

Emotionally aloof women do better with men, definitely something I have noticed. They trigger the hunter response in them, even when in a relationship.

Sad but true.

 

Unfortunately, that's a trait you are born with. Faking it is unsustainable and will only leave you feeling empty.

I agree some people are naturally colder - but I have learned with experience to hold back more, and experimented with this a bit in the last few years of dating. It's sad how well it works.

 

I have a few guys in my life that I've rejected in the past, and they still come around from time to time, with this attitude that I'm some mystical, unattainable creature. One of them was a high school boyfriend. He still keeps in touch with me and tries to see me when we're in the same city, 20 years later. It's hilarious.

[amaysngrace]

Nah, that's not it. I know what it was though.

 

At our first date 5-hour dinner, he talked about his family background and losses/abandonment he's experienced (mom left when he was 5 and didn't want him, his dad has been married 3 times and has never told him he loved him but he knows he does, the guy who took him under his wing and was a father figure died when he was a teen, and his mother's brother who was the next closest man in his life is currently on his death bed), and how that's made him long for/crave a deep, life-long love with a best friend who accepts him as is and loves him to his core, and to build a stable, solid family - basically, he wants what he never had growing up: the proverbial white picket fence, with nuclear, life-long family.

 

I can't tell you how much I related to what he was saying, I felt it deep down inside in my belly... there was actually a warming sensation in my entire abdomen. The things/emotions he was willing and able to share with me during that dinner made me feel really connected to him, like I understood him, and he'd understand me. So much so, that it kinda rattled me. I just kept staring at him, and he was like, "What?" and all I could really get out was, "I get it. I just, totally get it."

 

That's really sweet. You must be very easy to talk to.

 

Still I think he was playing on your heart. You really don't hold a grudge with new men, do you?

 

That's a beautiful quality to have.

 

You will find somebody worthy of you. I know you will. But it's not a life or death situation. To make it seem like one can take a lot of fun out of getting to know somebody.

 

But yeah from how he opened up to you like that, I can see why you were taken by him a little bit. Definitely.

 

I'm just glad he showed his true colors to you sooner than later. He sounds like he knew what to say to wiggle his way into your heart but here is a hint...nobody had a perfect life or perfect relationships unless maybe they were married and widowed, but still...your life wasn't perfect...nobody's was....but most of us don't go around saying how hard our lives have been or how badly we've been screwed over right from the start now do we?

 

If we did that we'd sound like a victim. Or a slug.

 

Live and learn right?

[Janesays]

OK, so do you recognize how these behavior patterns still may be present?

 

You ignore completely the successes you had while interacting with this guy. (Your open, honest, straight forward behavior)

 

While simultaneously becoming "heart broken" over you over emphasized perceived failures...instead of embracing them in a more positive way? (This guy was just a learning experience and I am even better equipped now to recognize Mr. Right when I see him)

 

Star, we can all sit here and tell you we are proud of you until out fingers get tired. But because we are not your Mother and Grammy, I suspect it's falling on deaf ears.

 

How can we help you learn to be proud of yourself?

[Star Gazer]

That's really sweet. You must be very easy to talk to.

 

That's what they all say. The last jerk called me disarming. People open up to me. If I had a Twilight vampire special ability/power, it would be to have people tell me their deepest darkest secrets.

 

Still I think he was playing on your heart. You really don't hold a grudge with new men, do you?

That's a beautiful quality to have.

 

Nope, I sure don't... at least, not at first. Blank slate.

[MrCastle]

Whoa. This thread got real cerebral towards the end, considering it was only two dates with a guy met online.

 

Star, don't even worry about it. There are plenty of good men still around and although you might not see it now, you will.

 

Every time it didn't work out with me and a girl, I always ended up better because of it.

 

You can take your lumps, wallow, and self pity, or you can take it as a learning experience, keep it in your memory banks, and remember it when a similar situation presents itself.

 

I think the lesson in this one is--don't get attached too easily.

[Star Gazer]

How can we help you learn to be proud of yourself?

 

I do feel good about being open and honest, in and of itself. Being open and honest is part of who I am, and I like that about myself.

 

But what sucks is that I'm finding that other people don't seem to like that about me. So, it seems my options are that I either change to suit them, or remain single forever... and neither sound all that great.

[amaysngrace]

That's what they all say. The last jerk called me disarming. People open up to me. If I had a Twilight vampire special ability/power, it would be to have people tell me their deepest darkest secrets.

 

Nope, I sure don't... at least, not at first. Blank slate.

 

Well keep that...that's a good thing but you aren't anyone's toilet and nobody should dump on you.

 

And it just occurred to me why he chose her...bartenders are uncertified therapists. She probably knew how to hear his problems a little bit better than you could. That's his "spark".

 

But like my grandma use to say "go tell your problems to Jesus".

 

You need a strong man Star. Not like someone like him at all.

[Star Gazer]

Whoa. This thread got real cerebral towards the end, considering it was only two dates with a guy met online.

 

Star, don't even worry about it. There are plenty of good men still around and although you might not see it now, you will.

 

Every time it didn't work out with me and a girl, I always ended up better because of it.

 

You can take your lumps, wallow, and self pity, or you can take it as a learning experience, keep it in your memory banks, and remember it when a similar situation presents itself.

 

I think the lesson in this one is--don't get attached too easily.

 

I'm not even sure I got attached. I just... felt something special, and thought it was reciprocal.

 

I'm starting to really worry about my (lack of) judgment and instinct.

[Star Gazer]

Well keep that...that's a good thing but you aren't anyone's toilet and nobody should dump on you.

 

And it just occurred to me why he chose her...bartenders are uncertified therapists. She probably knew how to hear his problems a little bit better than you could. That's his "spark".

 

But like my grandma use to say "go tell your problems to Jesus".

 

You need a strong man Star. Not like someone like him at all.

 

Meh. I don't think she's that type of bartender (I was one in college). She's a bartender at a party-bar. Like, crazy party bar - she wears a bikini top and a cowboy hat there. And when he was "feeling the spark" with her, he was DRUNK. He said so during his texts, and I could tell from said texts.

 

"Easy" alright.

[Janesays]

I'm not even sure I got attached. I just... felt something special, and thought it was reciprocal.

 

I'm starting to really worry about my (lack of) judgment and instinct.

 

I'll give you that one!

[MrCastle]

I'm not even sure I got attached. I just... felt something special, and thought it was reciprocal.

 

I'm starting to really worry about my (lack of) judgment and instinct.

 

Well, if he was able to be swayed so easily by the little bar hottie, he wasn't worth getting attached over.

 

Stay who you are, don't alter your dating routine (outside of actively looking for "the one", or getting attached easily, if you do that stuff), just live your life and the right one will come. I still very much believe that there is someone out there for all of us. I do believe in soulmates. Sappy, I know. But for something to happen, you have to first believe it can happen.

 

And date shorter next time.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm not even sure I got attached. I just... felt something special, and thought it was reciprocal.

 

I'm starting to really worry about my (lack of) judgment and instinct.

I think you're just lonely and scared, on some level.

 

I've started to try on the idea that I just might not fall in crazy love and live happily ever after with that special guy.

 

Now, just like you, that idea seems pretty hopeless and dreadful to me.

 

But when I work on really getting OK with that possibility, as a worst case scenario, and really start thinking about what I'll spend my life doing instead of that - the pressure just immediately lifts. Then I go out with this lighter, more fun attitude, with all the loneliness and neediness gone, and every cute guy in the city is smiling at me!

 

For as self-helpy as it may sound, I think the key is to fall in love with your life, yourself - and then that naturally attracts all kinds of good energy and love to you.

[amaysngrace]

Meh. I don't think she's that type of bartender (I was one in college). She's a bartender at a party-bar. Like, crazy party bar - she wears a bikini top and a cowboy hat there. And when he was "feeling the spark" with her, he was DRUNK. He said so during his texts, and I could tell from said texts.

 

"Easy" alright.

 

That could be but I still think he played the victim card. And strippers know how to hear problems too.

[tbf]

I'm starting to really worry about my (lack of) judgment and instinct.

Hold it. Here's where I'm going to jump all over you. Two dates. No one knows that quickly. He was saying all the right things so without any background, you're going to believe him until his actions don't mesh which is exactly what played out.

[Star Gazer]

Hold it. Here's where I'm going to jump all over you. Two dates. No one knows that quickly. He was saying all the right things so without any background, you're going to believe him until his actions don't mesh which is exactly what played out.

 

But shouldn't my instinct have been to not believe him at first?

 

This giving everyone the benefit of the doubt at the beginning thing ain't workin' for me...

[tbf]

But shouldn't my instinct have been to not believe him at first?

Hell no. Not that quickly unless he was obnoxious to begin with.

 

This giving everyone the benefit of the doubt at the beginning thing ain't workin' for me...

Aww...don't think that way. Sometimes things don't work out and better two dates, than any real investment.

[Star Gazer]

And date shorter next time.

 

:lmao:

[Eternal Sunshine]

Sad but true.

 

 

I agree some people are naturally colder - but I have learned with experience to hold back more, and experimented with this a bit in the last few years of dating. It's sad how well it works.

 

I have a few guys in my life that I've rejected in the past, and they still come around from time to time, with this attitude that I'm some mystical, unattainable creature. One of them was a high school boyfriend. He still keeps in touch with me and tries to see me when we're in the same city, 20 years later. It's hilarious.

 

Unfortunately, guys were the craziest about me when during the first couple of months dating I was actually pining after someone else. So wasn't taking them that seriously, was naturally distant. It almost makes me resent guys that they are so into that.

 

I am probably even more emotional that star.

 

It's like I need to dial my emotions back 5 notches to have a shot