Is he fishing, and should I directly answer him?

[Star Gazer]

Hmmm....so you would tell a total stranger something that hurt you so badly?

 

Not like your grand mom dying...I still mention my sister....but like more intimate stuff....like my being molested....you share deep stuff like that while making small talk with strangers?

 

I guess I see the 4th hour of a date where you both know you're there to explore relationship potential as something a little more significant than "small talk with strangers."

[Treasa]

I just come here more often than to people IRL because I don't want to bother them, whereas here, folks are here because they want to participate and engage so I don't have to worry about bugging them

 

This is what I mean. This along with your statements about how YOU blew it, and about how you fear rejection. I have no doubt that you are a very confident person when it comes to some areas of your life, and that you are very competent and intelligent. However, it does seem that you take events and somehow have a negative thought, which then makes you feel down, or less than others, or sad... And I think that if you've been doing it all your life, and being harsh on yourself all your life, it's difficult to realize that you're even doing it.

 

Admitting that you are too critical of yourself and too wary of other people's opinions isn't a weakness. It's an opportunity to learn and grow and make yourself even better.

 

For example...

 

Old me: Would get worried if boyfriend didn't want to talk or wanted to be left alone, and would wonder if I wasn't good enough or had done something wrong.

 

Current me: Would assume something crawled up his ass, and would give him his space and go about my merry little life, and let him contact me when he felt like not being a grump anymore.

 

If you haven't actually done anything wrong, you needn't feel bad about yourself or assume blame.

[amaysngrace]

I guess I see the 4th hour of a date where you both know you're there to explore relationship potential as something a little more significant than "small talk with strangers."

 

Four hours....two hundred and forty minutes....and you see nothing wrong with opening up on a deep level to someone with your most intimate feelings?

 

Yikes.

[CptSaveAho]

If you have an 18 page thread for a dude you met online and dated 2 times. Time to get a team of doctors.

[Star Gazer]

Four hours....two hundred and forty minutes....and you see nothing wrong with opening up on a deep level to someone with your most intimate feelings?

 

Yikes.

 

"I long for a strong, committed, nuclear family because I didn't have one growing up." <---- That to me, isn't some deep, dark, intimate thing to share with a romantic prospect, even on a first date. Now, I don't personally share it in general because it doesn't come up... but it wouldn't be the first time I've heard it, and I don't have an aversion to hearing it.

 

Why is that so horrible?

 

Mind you, we'd also had 2 2-hour phone conversations by our first date.

[Janesays]

Stop saying there was no spark or that he's friend-zoning me. HE WASN'T. Period, end of story on that front.

 

Whoa. Out of line. You don't get tell me what I can and cannot say. I am not your child or a lackey for you to control. I will call you on disrespect like that EVERY. Single. Time.

 

If you don't want to listen, then don't. There will come a time, probably when you get tired of being dumped in the FIRST MONTH of dating with piss poor excuses like 'you weren't captivating enough' and various other nonsense, when you say, 'hey, maybe janesays wasn't all that off base...'

 

Or maybe you'll just keep on embracing your denial. Alone.

[Star Gazer]

If you have an 18 page thread for a dude you met online and dated 2 times. Time to get a team of doctors.

 

Thank you for that thoughtful, helpful post!

 

This guy is a mere example of a recurring problem, so he's simply the impetus for a deeper discussion. Move along!

[Star Gazer]

Or maybe you'll just keep on embracing your denial. Alone.

 

"Whoa. Out of line."

 

Goodbye, Jane.

[CptSaveAho]

Thank you for that thoughtful, helpful post!

 

This guy is a mere example of a recurring problem, so he's simply the impetus for a deeper discussion. Move along!

 

I gave you the Solution to you're recurring problem

 

A team of doctors... fix your broken love map

[ffw]

Four hours....two hundred and forty minutes....and you see nothing wrong with opening up on a deep level to someone with your most intimate feelings?

 

Yikes.

 

It's called "going with the flow". Why secrecy? Anyways, if the base is weak, how can you build a strong foundation upon it.

[Star Gazer]

If you haven't actually done anything wrong, you needn't feel bad about yourself or assume blame.

 

Okay, I guess the better way to phrase this is that I recognize the cause-and-effect, and that I was the cause of him running scared. That doesn't mean it's my "fault" or that I am to "blame," but me telling him he was the only one I was interested in continuing to get to know does seem to have been the "cause" of him bailing.

[Star Gazer]

"I long for a strong, committed, nuclear family because I didn't have one growing up." <---- That to me, isn't some deep, dark, intimate thing that shouldn't be shared with a romantic prospect, even on a first date.

 

Corrected as bolded.

[Janesays]

"Whoa. Out of line."

 

Goodbye, Jane.

 

 

You reap what you sow, Star, and the way you treat some people here (not just me)who are trying to reach out, comfort you, and HELP you is....pretty nasty.

 

Goodbye and good LUCK with that. You'll need it.

[Treasa]

Jane, like me, is just trying to help you. We're all trying really hard to help you.

 

OK, since you're a lawyer, I'm busting this out:

 

Is it possible, Miss Star Gazer, that he bolted because he's a flake or for some other reason, and that the timing of your telling him about only seeing him is a coincidence?

 

Is that possible?

 

If so, isn't that preferable and doesn't it make more sense to think that than to think that you did something that would cause him to run?

 

You did nothing wrong, and you even admitted it. In a relaxed moment, you wrote what you really think, deep-down, which is that you didn't do anything bad, and that it just sucks because you really liked this guy. But it's easier to think you were the cause of him bolting, because you're used to being harsh on yourself. That is easier for you, in MY opinion only, than realizing that there's something wrong with him.

[Star Gazer]

Jane, like me, is just trying to help you. We're all trying really hard to help you.

 

OK, since you're a lawyer, I'm busting this out:

 

Is it possible, Miss Star Gazer, that he bolted because he's a flake or for some other reason, and that the timing of your telling him about only seeing him is a coincidence?

 

Is that possible?

 

If so, isn't that preferable and doesn't it make more sense to think that than to think that you did something that would cause him to run?

 

You did nothing wrong, and you even admitted it. In a relaxed moment, you wrote what you really think, deep-down, which is that you didn't do anything bad, and that it just sucks because you really liked this guy. But it's easier to think you were the cause of him bolting, because you're used to being harsh on yourself. That is easier for you, in MY opinion only, than realizing that there's something wrong with him.

 

Jane's efforts aren't working.

 

As for the bolded: Ehhhh, I really don't think that's true. I pretty much think I'm the bees knees. I'm frustrated and down because I'm not getting why other people (these dudes) don't seem to agree. It's like... I'm stuck. I can't get anymore awesome than I already am.

 

Kam was more spot on when she referenced control, as though if it's my fault, I believe I can fix it in the future, with someone else.

[Treasa]

I'm not sure what to tell you, then, but control can be an issue. A lot of my misery in my life came from failing to be able to control how others think, and not exercising enough control in what I think. When I flipped it, things fell into place.

 

Good luck.

[amaysngrace]

"I long for a strong, committed, nuclear family because I didn't have one growing up." <---- That to me, isn't some deep, dark, intimate thing to share with a romantic prospect, even on a first date. Now, I don't personally share it in general because it doesn't come up... but it wouldn't be the first time I've heard it, and I don't have an aversion to hearing it.

 

Why is that so horrible?

 

Mind you, we'd also had 2 2-hour phone conversations by our first date.

 

Okay well you did talk a little before your date. But still, talking about a family and kids and all is heavy for a first date. Very.

 

You don't think so?

[ffw]

Okay, I guess the better way to phrase this is that I recognize the cause-and-effect, and that I was the cause of him running scared. That doesn't mean it's my "fault" or that I am to "blame," but me telling him he was the only one I was interested in continuing to get to know does seem to have been the "cause" of him bailing.

 

SG, you can't walk on egg shells. If a person can't handle your truthness & openess, then I guess it's for the best that it's over. Be true to yourself and please don't get stuck in "if's" and "but's".

 

The only thing in your power is action and not it's result. That doesn't mean you stop doing the right things. You can never know what results comes from your actions.

[Star Gazer]

Okay well you did talk a little before your date. But still, talking about a family and kids and all is heavy for a first date. Very.

 

You don't think so?

 

No, I really don't... not when it's flowing the way it was. I guess that makes me wrong too.

[callingyouuu]

Okay well you did talk a little before your date. But still, talking about a family and kids and all is heavy for a first date. Very.

 

You don't think so?

 

You can argue that it's not your usual first date conversation, but I don't see what's so inherently wrong about it. If that's where the conversation is flowing, I don't see a ton of sense in arbitrarily changing the subject.

 

I actually think it's pleasantly surprising when I can gracefully meander through heavier topics with someone I've just met.

[amaysngrace]

You can argue that it's not your usual first date conversation, but I don't see what's so inherently wrong about it. If that's where the conversation is flowing, I don't see a ton of sense in arbitrarily changing the subject.

 

I actually think it's pleasantly surprising when I can gracefully meander through heavier topics with someone I've just met.

 

I guess. It just doesn't seem like a whole lot of fun and puts a whole lot of expectations and burden on a person.

 

I mean, I would prefer to keep it light if I just met someone. Hearing something like "someday maybe I'd like to have kids because I have a nephew blah blah" but not "I never had a family"...ya know?

 

That would scream "he's got issues" to me. TMI

[callingyouuu]

I guess. It just doesn't seem like a whole lot of fun and puts a whole lot of expectations and burden on a person.

 

I mean, I would prefer to keep it light if I just met someone. Hearing something like "someday maybe I'd like to have kids because I have a nephew blah blah" but not "I never had a family"...ya know?

 

That would scream "he's got issues" to me. TMI

 

Sure, I agree that it can be awkward in many (if not most) circumstances. It just has to be with the right person. When it does happen, it feels pretty special.

 

Star, just because it didn't work out this time, I wouldn't discourage you from pursuing a future relationship (under similar circumstances) any differently. Hindsight is 20/20, but with the information you had in the moment, I feel you made all the right choices. Even if you didn't tell him you weren't seeing any one else, there's no evidence that it would have worked out in the end. In fact, him "clamming" up and running off to a bartender he crushed on while drunk suggests to me that there wasn't much that could have been done to change the end result.

 

You'll find the right guy soon enough. I mean, you ARE the bee's knees.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I actually can share a lot or a little on the first date, depends how it's flowing. But for me a bad first date is when you ONLY talk about very light stuff, like you would with a stranger. That to me means we are not connecting.

[xxoo]

Okay, I guess the better way to phrase this is that I recognize the cause-and-effect, and that I was the cause of him running scared. That doesn't mean it's my "fault" or that I am to "blame," but me telling him he was the only one I was interested in continuing to get to know does seem to have been the "cause" of him bailing.

 

But that shouldn't scare anyone.

 

He's the one who blew hot air, fished, and got scared when you gave him the answer he wanted to hear. These are his issues. It is his "fault" because he shouldn't have been blowing smoke or fishing if he wanted things to go slow. He led you on. His fault.

[Kamille]

 

If I'm more guarded, it's only because I fear judgment.

 

Is it possible that being "too open to quick" at the beginning is what triggered your anxiety and your feelings for this guy? I'm not saying it was wrong to do so. I'm just saying, if I open up to someone really early on, I usually end up feeling vulnerable. And when I feel vulnerable, I get more focused on trying to secure the other person's approval (where fear of judgement kicks in and I try to figure out what I can do to get their approval, ie, focus on their perception of me). And, I probably confuse the vulnerability/anxiety for "feelings" on my part.

 

I might still open up early, but I try to recognize that pattern so that I don't respond to it the same way.

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, I guess the better way to phrase this is that I recognize the cause-and-effect, and that I was the cause of him running scared. That doesn't mean it's my "fault" or that I am to "blame," but me telling him he was the only one I was interested in continuing to get to know does seem to have been the "cause" of him bailing.

 

No. That guy was going to run scared at the slightest trigger no matter what you did. He talked a big game but couldn't bring it. So, your actions weren't the cause. His thought patterns were the cause of his actions.

 

What would have ended up happening if this thing had lasted is that you would have ended up in a relationship where you walk on eggshells, all the time, in hopes he doesn't scare off.

 

Typing that last sentence I realize: you actually had the gut instinct Star. You were worried he would scare off. Somewhere, somehow, you identified that this guy was the kind of guy who scares easy. What made you feel/realize this? (Think actions, words, etc.)