Is he fishing, and should I directly answer him?

[Star Gazer]

You said he accidentally read a three page text from a guy on match. I thought on match you text each other. I don't know how dating websites work.

 

So he accidentally read it on your phone? That's even worse.

 

This is the problem with assuming. You're jumping to conclusions.

 

When we were making plans for him to drop me off and pick me up from the airport, I got out my phone to bring up the email from the airline to get the times. When I did that, I saw that I had a three page/screen-long text from a Match guy who I'd just given my number to. I reacted, "WTF..." and he asked what was up and I briefly showed him my phone, from a distance mind you, and quickly scrolled through the text and told him that it was a Match guy that I'd just given my number to a day or two before, and that that was his first message to me. He asked if that was normal, and I said eff no... That the usual initial text was along the lines of, "Hey Star, this is so and so from Match, how's your night going?"

 

It wasn't like he was reading my phone or something.

 

But he's also used this three page text as a repeated joke of what lengths Match guys will go to and the types of guys trying to get my attention.

[Star Gazer]

What does that mean: blowtorching?

 

Blowing super hot and then turning off. Men are often compared to blowtorches whereas women are compared to ovens.

[Star Gazer]

How did he describe you again? A 'cool' chick but no spark? Exactly.

 

Huh????? No spark?? No, he didn't say that AT ALL. He said quite the opposite. I honestly don't know where you come up with some of this stuff. (That's not me being defensive, that's me being confused...)

[Star Gazer]

Some random comments:

 

1. Star, this is NOT your fault. You were open to connect and honest. You shouldn't have to be cold and play games to get a guy. I refuse to do that myself.

 

2. His bar-attender story may not be completely true. He likely had a thing for her for a while. It doesn't just happen out of thin air after you have known someone for years.

 

3. Women are competitive. She likely heard that he is dating someone and that made him more attractive to her.

 

4. He could have been fishing about you dating others as an ego boost/validation, not because he was considering getting serious. I have had many situations where guys were kinda asking me how much I liked them, are there others in the picture etc. Then once I told them that I did indeed like them, poof - they were out of the picture.

 

5. EVERY guy that did similar to me came back at some point. I took great pleasure in rejecting them. Hope you do he same

 

Thanks, ES.

 

I hope 5 doesn't come true though. I'd second guess myself and him...

[amaysngrace]

This is the problem with assuming. You're jumping to conclusions.

 

When we were making plans for him to drop me off and pick me up from the airport, I got out my phone to bring up the email from the airline to get the times. When I did that, I saw that I had a three page/screen-long text from a Match guy who I'd just given my number to. I reacted, "WTF..." and he asked what was up and I briefly showed him my phone, from a distance mind you, and quickly scrolled through the text and told him that it was a Match guy that I'd just given my number to a day or two before, and that that was his first message to me. He asked if that was normal, and I said eff no... That the usual initial text was along the lines of, "Hey Star, this is so and so from Match, how's your night going?"

 

It wasn't like he was reading my phone or something.

 

But he's also used this three page text as a repeated joke of what lengths Match guys will go to and the types of guys trying to get my attention.

 

I didn't assume I just didn't know how match works.

 

But now I understand better. I thought he could read up on match what other guys say to you. And he was creeping.

 

Still he seems off. How could he go from being all into you and wanting to be there for you and do things for you that you wanted to doing a 180 that quickly?

 

I think that what he was saying was very insincere obviously. And it sucks and I'm sorry but he really seemed to be following some script on how to catch a babe or something.

 

In all honesty why do you seem to get hooked on guys who come on strong? You don't like to take it day by day and see where it leads?

 

Because to me that is exactly how to build a solid relationship.

[Star Gazer]

In all honesty why do you seem to get hooked on guys who come on strong? You don't like to take it day by day and see where it leads?

 

I don't know.

 

Part of me thinks I tend to do it this way because IME the guys who start of luke warm remain that way, and I'm not interested in luke warm.

 

As for not taking it day to day, I guess I'm inclined to want to know whether it's going to go somewhere sooner than later. I don't have a lot of time to waste, so I want to ASAP know if he (whomever he is) wants the same things I do and has the capacity for those things. I'm okay taking my time figuring out if we are compatible on a one-on-one basis, but as for the big picture of who he is and what he's looking for, I want to know now... And I've met enough truly sincere guys who were open with who they are and what they're looking for to know that it's possible to be open and honest from the very beginning.

[amaysngrace]

I don't know.

 

Part of me thinks I tend to do it this way because IME the guys who start of luke warm remain that way, and I'm not interested in luke warm.

 

As for not taking it day to day, I guess I'm inclined to want to know whether it's going to go somewhere sooner than later. I don't have a lot of time to waste, so I want to ASAP know if he (whomever he is) wants the same things I do and has the capacity for those things. I'm okay taking my time figuring out if we are compatible on a one-on-one basis, but as for the big picture of who he is and what he's looking for, I want to know now... And I've met enough truly sincere guys who were open with who they are and what they're looking for to know that it's possible to be open and honest from the very beginning.

 

You're absolutely right that there are guys out there who say what they mean and mean what they say but I think only time can prove that what they say is true.

 

I think you are maybe too trusting that all of them are upfront and honest. They're not.

[Janesays]

Huh????? No spark?? No, he didn't say that AT ALL. He said quite the opposite. I honestly don't know where you come up with some of this stuff. (That's not me being defensive, that's me being confused...)

 

Post number 77 where he said he felt a spark for the bartender "for the first time in years." AKA: not with you. Post number 109 where he referred to you as 'cool.'

 

You have not gotten defensive with me(yet), but I have noticed you getting defensive with others like Teresa who in no way, shape or form have attacked you. You don't want to admit to us or yourself this was doomed from the beginning; you would rather TORTURE yourself with thoughts of what you did wrong.

 

Me and a few others HATE seeing you put yourself through this. It's counter productive and you don't deserve it. Please understand we say what we say because we CARE and you NEED to hear it.

 

You did NOTHING wrong!!!:

[tuxedo cat]

I actually don't think you'll hear from him again, but that's a good thing.

 

Re: why this keeps happening to you. Most likely it's a combination of several things rather than one thing.

 

Do you have a type? If so how would you describe that type? Maybe this will offer some answers.

 

I noticed that you mentioned this guy has a blue collar type job and that your ex was in the army, yet you yourself are a professional woman. Is it possible some of these guys are put off by your social status? I know a lot of guys are uncomfortable dating women who are more educated than they are. Have you tried dating more educated guys and if so has your experience with them been any different?

 

I also think that it's possible you're giving off signs of interest too strong without realizing it. You are a confident women in other aspects of your life but say that dating tends to make you insecure when you develop feelings. It's plausible that you're giving off an insecure vibe once you start to catch feelings. Even if you are not saying anything that could be taken as insecure, people can detect energies in minute details: the tone of your voice, how you carry yourself, how you laugh. If those cues change when you start to feel strong attraction, that could be turning some guys off.

 

What I've consistently noticed is that women who are able to hold onto men never completely give themselves over to the guy all the time. They maintain a boundary ever so slight. I'm not good at pulling it off myself but I know it when I see it.

[ffw]

You're absolutely right that there are guys out there who say what they mean and mean what they say but I think only time can prove that what they say is true.

 

I think you are maybe too trusting that all of them are upfront and honest. They're not.

 

We tend to see others as we see ourselves.

[amy12]

For me...I normally take my time getting to know a guy, but in some situations (coworkers) I feel the need to decide quickly if things should progress at all (because: can I tolerate the teasing, etc that goes with that?), which usually includes a decision point of do I like this guy or not. That doesn't mean I'm signing up for life at all, it means should I consider this guy. Yes, at that point I'm pretty excited to see him everyday because it's fun but still cautious. If so I'd expect to go out a few times on our own, see if there's anything substantial there from the content of our conversations, and then start possibly heading toward a relationship. Other people get all flirty and just hang there for a long time it seems, seriously considering things but the only way they're able to do that is to make it up, create a story in their head about what the other person is about. Before you go out with someone you really don't know them at all, I can attest to that because I rarely tell anyone all about me until I'm heading down relationship lane. Friends don't know, almost boyfriends don't know, it's on need to know basis. And I'd expect a guy to do the same exact thing with me. He should operate like that but if you're just going to hang at the unknown...all you're left with is "what if I'd gone out with him/her"?

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm sorry for the disappointment you're feeling now.

 

You did NOT make any mistakes. You told the truth at a time when it seemed appropriate. It seemed okay to me. If that was not what he wanted to hear, and if it did in fact influence what happened next - well, then. He wasn't ready for you, right?

 

Still, it all sounds like a tremendous let down.

[Ruby Slippers]

I also think that it's possible you're giving off signs of interest too strong without realizing it. You are a confident women in other aspects of your life but say that dating tends to make you insecure when you develop feelings. It's plausible that you're giving off an insecure vibe once you start to catch feelings. Even if you are not saying anything that could be taken as insecure, people can detect energies in minute details: the tone of your voice, how you carry yourself, how you laugh. If those cues change when you start to feel strong attraction, that could be turning some guys off.

 

What I've consistently noticed is that women who are able to hold onto men never completely give themselves over to the guy all the time. They maintain a boundary ever so slight. I'm not good at pulling it off myself but I know it when I see it.

I think this is a good point. I'm a total romantic sap, and I love stuff like being picked up by my man from the airport. But I would never agree to this after 2 dates. My last boyfriend picked me up from the airport - after 2 1/2 months of dating. And even that felt kinda fast. There's something intimate/spousal about that, almost like sewing a button on his shirt or taking care of him when he's sick.

 

You mention above that you "don't have a lot of time to waste". Do you say this because of age/biological clock? I'm in my 30s and want kids, but that's no reason to rush. Be focused and move on from bad matches quickly, sure - but you can't rush the unfolding of love and romance. Being on a hurried timeline or letting yourself be rushed along on theirs says desperate and is repellent.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Emotionally aloof women do better with men, definitely something I have noticed. They trigger the hunter response in them, even when in a relationship. Unfortunately, that's a trait you are born with. Faking it is unsustainable and will only leave you feeling empty.

[amaysngrace]

Emotionally aloof women do better with men, definitely something I have noticed. They trigger the hunter response in them, even when in a relationship. Unfortunately, that's a trait you are born with. Faking it is unsustainable and will only leave you feeling empty.

 

You may have a point there but I think there are things you can do to slow things down. It doesn't mean you're aloof, not at all, well maybe some are, but taking it slow is smart IMO.

 

It's a way of keeping things in balance and not giving away more of yourself than you're getting back in return. Doing that leaves you drained.

 

And jumping in is a sure way to give all you've got. When your needs aren't met you're drained.

 

That sucks.

[Kamille]

((Star Gazer))

 

I know you're not mad at him - but please let me say: that guy takes the cake for inconsistency! First, he tells you he doesn't like playing games and wants someone who is open and hones twith him and yadi yadi ya and then, when you merely say that you're dating only him, he bails because he feels pressured? Me thinks that little boy doesn't fit in his big boy pants yet. He pretends to be the kind of "solid" guy any girl could want and then freaks out at the mention of exclusivity? IMO that's him misrepresenting himself.

 

Right?

 

I really think this guy is a good guy, and I think I kinda blew it by telling him. It forced his hand. If he'd had more time to evaluate, it may have turned out differently.

 

I don't think so. You didn't "force his hand". You told him you were dating him and only him. Dating. Dating. I date only one guy at a time as par for the course and I've never had a guy equate that to "pressure" and "serious commitment". There was nothing to ruin Star. And like tbf said, better he bails now, at the mere mention of "dating exclusively" then later, when feelings develop.

 

 

So, he wouldn't have freaked if I kept my mouth shut?

 

And yet, he had assured you, only days before, that he was an open guy who could handle anything you threw his way. Inconsistent representation of himself.

 

 

 

 

He's freaked out because you admitted you aren't dating others?

 

That doesn't even make sense.

 

Bares repeating. It really didn't take much to freak him out.

 

 

I

What sucks is... as crazy as this sounds, at the end of our first date, after talking to him for 5 hours and having such a great time, I actually had thought, "I wonder if this is how it feels in the beginning, you know... when you 'just know.'" I'd never felt a connection like that before. Ever.

 

Man, I'm stupid.

 

No, you're a romantic.

 

But the fact is, as much as you liked this guy on a first date, you don't know him.

 

 

 

I guess I do that because... well, what other reason could there be? I'm the common denominator. Thing is, I've tried it every which way, so it's not like I'm repeating patterns. I multi-date and make them chase, I single-date and am open and reciprocate, I do this, I do that, I try this, I try that. Nothing's working.

 

So stop trying. And stop trying to figure it out. And stop blaming yourself.

 

Start being and accepting yourself. It makes it easier to accept loss when things don't work out. Because, you know what, it means they're not the right guys for you if all it takes is you being honest to chase them away.

 

But I wonder, from this thread alone, if part of the issue is that orienting towards making things work at all cost gives you a false sense of control.

 

Remember the time when tbf kept saying : Do not fear loss? It's been a good go to for me when I struggle with dating. You lost this guy - all it means is that he wasn't yours.

 

 

 

 

You don't want to admit to us or yourself this was doomed from the beginning; you would rather TORTURE yourself with thoughts of what you did wrong.

 

(...)

 

You did NOTHING wrong!!!:

Amen

[Kamille]

Emotionally aloof women do better with men, definitely something I have noticed. They trigger the hunter response in them, even when in a relationship. Unfortunately, that's a trait you are born with. Faking it is unsustainable and will only leave you feeling empty.

 

This hasn't been my experience. I'm probably one of the most direct person out there when it comes to dating. I frequently tell the guys I like that I like them, this, usually within the first 3 dates and it's hardly ever spooked them away. In fact, it usually has the opposite effect for me. (Who doesn't like being liked?)

 

I think the difference is that I can tell them, precisely because I'm not attached to a particular outcome. To me, being into a guy isn't the same as "wanting commitment forever and ever amen". It just means I dig the guy. No more, no less.

[Janesays]

((Star Gazer))

 

I know you're not mad at him - but please let me say: that guy takes the cake for inconsistency! First, he tells you he doesn't like playing games and wants someone who is open and hones twith him and yadi yadi ya and then, when you merely say that you're dating only him, he bails because he feels pressured? Me thinks that little boy doesn't fit in his big boy pants yet. He pretends to be the kind of "solid" guy any girl could want and then freaks out at the mention of exclusivity? IMO that's him misrepresenting himself.

 

EXACTLY!

 

"I'm looking for a relationship that leads towards marriage," said the guy who had NO PROBLEM dating a woman for SIX YEARS without pulling the trigger and proposing.

[Star Gazer]

We tend to see others as we see ourselves.

 

"And that's the thing about people who mean everything they say. They think everyone else does too." - K. Hosseini

[Star Gazer]

Post number 77 where he said he felt a spark for the bartender "for the first time in years." AKA: not with you. Post number 109 where he referred to you as 'cool.'

 

No. You're piecing it together to form your own conclusion. He said he thinks we're BOTH cool, feels a spark with BOTH of us, but that she is EASIER because they're pre-existing friends and run in the same circle. That was his decision maker: that she was EASIER, and that I freaked him out.

[Star Gazer]

I noticed that you mentioned this guy has a blue collar type job and that your ex was in the army, yet you yourself are a professional woman. Is it possible some of these guys are put off by your social status? I know a lot of guys are uncomfortable dating women who are more educated than they are. Have you tried dating more educated guys and if so has your experience with them been any different?

 

My ex was a Captain waiting for promotion to Major and has two Master's Degrees, one from St. Andrews where he studied with Prince William. He's actually quite snooty, and not blue collar at all.

 

This guy was actually the first guy I've dated who hasn't had an advanced education in yeeeeeeears. I actually didn't respond to his message at first, because of that fact and because he writes like a freakin' idiot. But once we got on the phone, we just clicked.

 

My "type" is more physical than anything, but the common factors typically include a certain level of charm, humor, sarcasm, confidence.

 

I also think that it's possible you're giving off signs of interest too strong without realizing it.

 

I've been told quite the opposite more often than not: "I didn't think you were interested" or "I didn't think you'd say yes."

 

What I've consistently noticed is that women who are able to hold onto men never completely give themselves over to the guy all the time. They maintain a boundary ever so slight. I'm not good at pulling it off myself but I know it when I see it.

 

I've noticed that too, but I really, really don't want to be that way.

[amaysngrace]

No. You're piecing it together to form your own conclusion. He said he thinks we're BOTH cool, feels a spark with BOTH of us, but that she is EASIER because they're pre-existing friends and run in the same circle. That was his decision maker: that she was EASIER, and that I freaked him out.

 

Well then there you go. He wants what's easy.

 

You're complex. As most are when they are well developed and full of depth of character.

 

I would take that as a major compliment and thank goodness you aren't classified as "easy". I would have told him "thank you".

[Janesays]

Right. I'm really bummed at the timing of it... they (he? it's unclear if it's even returned) literally felt a spark, for the first time in years, as soon as I left. Literally hours after he dropped me off at the airport.

 

 

My reading comprehension skills are sound, Star. If felt a spark with her "for the first time in years," then how is it possible he felt a spark for you also a week before? Unless "for the first time in years" are your words and not his.

 

Don't back peddle and don't get defensive. Instead give yourself the permission to be the INNOCENT party in all this.

[Star Gazer]

You mention above that you "don't have a lot of time to waste". Do you say this because of age/biological clock? I'm in my 30s and want kids, but that's no reason to rush. Be focused and move on from bad matches quickly, sure - but you can't rush the unfolding of love and romance. Being on a hurried timeline or letting yourself be rushed along on theirs says desperate and is repellent.

 

Yes, that's why I say that.

 

I'm not trying to rush the unfolding of love and romance. I'm trying to move on from bad matches quickly.

 

You'd agree that this guy was a bad match, right? And I did so quickly, right? So... no harm, no foul... right?

 

I've been open and honest like this before, with my two longest lasting relationships. I still believe that if "he" is the right guy, he won't be "scared off" by my true self.

[Star Gazer]

My reading comprehension skills are sound, Star. If felt a spark with her "for the first time in years," then how is it possible he felt a spark for you also a week before? Unless "for the first time in years" are your words and not his.

 

Are you suggesting you can't feel a spark for two people in one week? I have, several times.

 

He told me flat out that he felt a spark with me and was really excited about me, but then "that" just unfolded (while I was gone) and then I "freaked him out" and made him "clam up" and that effectively sealed the deal: No more Star, more bartender.