My husband decided he wants a 1950's housewife, I cant be that.

[SJ502]

My husband and I have been having a lot of problems lately. We have been trying to work them out. It seems that we do not agree on our roles in our relationship. Today he sent me a link to an article on how he feels our relationship should be.

 

I was shocked when I read it. He wants me to gain ALL of my happiness from making him and the kids happy. He wants me to find joy in household chores and making sure everything is clean. He wants to be the one to make any and all decisions and have the final say in everything. He thinks if I am to have a career I should not have one that takes time or thought away from him and the kids.

 

I just can not agree with this. I am a stay at home mom, NOT by choice, because he wants me to be, but I am also a medical student. I will be a doctor in a couple years. My career WILL take time and thought away from my family. That goes with it. I do love my family and of course I want them to be happy, but I dont think i should have to base my entire existence on how they feel. I do cook and clean, but we have a 3 year old and a 5 month old. It is very hard to juggle school, the kids, and house hold stuff. He gets upset if there is a dish in the sink or a child toy out whenever he gets home. I am also breastfeeding the new baby, which takes a LOT of my time. He thinks I am just sitting around whenever I am feeding the baby. Anyone that has done it, knows it is FAR from just sitting around.

 

He NEVER use to be like this. The article he sent me was written by some anti-everything, conspiracy theorist, that is VERY against feminism.

 

I am not sure what to do. I told him that I want a 100% equal relationship. I told him I do not want to be viewed as lesser. I was independent and took care of myself before him, and I never want to feel like I have to have him to live. I know we have different roles, but I don't feel like his view is correct for me. I am not willing to be fake to please him. He got upset and told me I should have been with a woman if I feel like that. He did not use to think this was whenever we first knew each other and when we first got married.

 

What can I do? Advice?

 

If it matters,

 

I am 23 and he is 29.

 

Thanks!

[WhatYouWantToHear]

How are you going to be a doctor in a few years with a 3 year old and a 5 month old? Why did you have kids if being a doctor was such an important goal? Don't give me any 'unexpected blessings' bs because that would make me question your ability to be a health practitioner even more.

 

Also, by my math, you married him when you were 20. Did you guys even have time to discuss what you both wanted from marriage before you got married?

 

I'm not saying he's right in wanting you to be Mrs. Cleaver, but you made a lot of mistakes leading up to this point if being more than a housewife is what you wanted. Let's not lay this all on him. From his point of view you've being going along with his vision of the perfect family.

[Sparty97]

It seems pretty clear to me that he is threatened by your career. What does he do for a living?

[TiredFamilyGuy]

I'm with Sparty. He's feeling threatened. What about? If he wants you to play the role of support partner for a while, well that's understandable though precisely how balanced that would be is in the detail.

 

What's not OK, is to not want to take turns. Exceedingly questionable.

[2sunny]

You should do what makes you happy. Don't bow down o his demands!

 

He's perfectly capable of picking up a toy and cleaning his own dishes!

 

Tell him his demands are not in alignment with your priorities.

 

He wants you to be the subservient housewife.

 

He married you knowing your goals... He needs to adjust his expectations.

 

Be clear with him - he sounds like a spoiled brat that's looking for reasons to cheat! But that's my experience talking.

[underwater2010]

First I want to know why you had kids if you want to be a doctor?

 

Prior to even marrying, I thought about being a lawyer. But the hours you need to spend to be sucessfull would take way to much time away from a family should I have wanted one.

 

It comes down to priorities. Your kids and house should be first and foremost. The kids are only around for 18-20 yrs. That is time you will never get back with them.

 

This is something that you need to workout with your husband. It is something that you should have talked about prior to having kids or even getting married. I find it sad that you both had such different priorities when getting married. And it is the kids who will suffer.

[TaraMaiden]

Yes, you read that right. I am seriously suggesting that marriage takes compromises of goals when people have children. Someone has to raise them. Either she will, he will, a family member will or a day care worker. She has to think with the other parent which way it will be. The reality is the kids need to be raised NOW, unlike a career which can be obtained later. What I suggested is ONE way they can do both, they can pick others.

 

Compromise is the road to ruin.

In this case - there is NO compromise. What you are suggesting is that she emrely acede to his wishes.

How the hell is that Compromise?

 

OP: your husband is a jackass.

Tell him that if he wants to move right back into the 50's then he had better start earning money proportionately.

Money bought a whole lot more in the 50's than it does now, so if he wants to adapt your current lifestyle to the way things once were, then he's going to have to increase his earnings.

 

If he tells you that's ludicrous, tell him his idea is equally half-brained.

 

If he doesn't like what you intend to do - and what you believed he had agreed to all along - then tell him to go shove his 1950's ideas where the sun don't shine.

[underwater2010]

What kind of doctor do you want to be? Is it a position that would have set office hours?

[camillalev]

Read the book Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead by Sheryl Sandberg. She writes a chapter about having a career and being a mother. In it she writes that it is of COMPLETE importance that women have husbands who are 100% supportive of their career and willing to do their equal share of running a home. She also sites many studies and surveys where women drop out of the workforce or work part-time because their husbands refuse to do their share of responsibilities within the home, they just don't see it as their responsibility.

 

Absolutely follow your aspirations.

[TaraMaiden]

Tara, I agree with you on a great many issues, but I gotta say, not being willing to compromise about something as huge as children is a road to possible divorce...

 

If she thinks going to school now is hard, wait to see what she accomplishes when she has to support two kids alone... I went to graduate school while working two jobs and raising two kids solo, I wouldn't wish that tiresome fate on my worst enemy. Slept four hours a day for six years... Literally went into the psych ward from the sheer stress, now I have a degree, and it cost me everyone of my children's firsts...

 

AS, you're not getting my point.

A Compromise is defined by the Classic Online Dictionary, primarily, as:

 

com·pro·mise (kmpr-mz)

n.

1.

a. A settlement of differences in which each side makes concessions.

 

b. The result of such a settlement.

 

However, there are other definitions:

 

2. Something that combines qualities or elements of different things: The incongruous design is a compromise between high tech and early American.

 

3. A concession to something detrimental or pejorative: a compromise of morality.

v. com·pro·mised, com·pro·mis·ing, com·pro·mis·es

v.intr.

1. To arrive at a settlement by making concessions.

2. To reduce the quality, value, or degree of something.

v.tr.

1.

a. To expose or make liable to danger, suspicion, or disrepute: a secret mission that was compromised and had to be abandoned; compromise one's standing in the community.

b. To reduce in quality, value, or degree; weaken or lower.

2. To impair by disease or injury: an immune system that was compromised by a virus.

3. To settle by mutual concessions: a dispute that was compromised.

 

What worries me in this case, is that her husband will be far less likely to approach it via the first definition, but seems insistent on rather, getting her to comply in such a way as to accomplish the definitions in the second part (Bolded, Italic).

 

A compromise between two people arranges things in such a way to give a modicum of satisfaction to both parties.

 

Where would you think he seems prepared to meet her half way in anything, on the basis of the OP's first post?

[xxoo]

OP, you are in a tight spot, because you have big dreams but you had children with a man who is not going to support you in your dreams. And, as a mother, you will need a LOT of support to reach those goals.

 

He can't force you to play the role of 1950s housewife. But you can't force him to play the role of supportive spouse of a resident. Can you do it without his support?

[Got it]

Tara, I agree with you on a great many issues, but I gotta say, not being willing to compromise about something as huge as children is a road to possible divorce...

 

If she thinks going to school now is hard, wait to see what she accomplishes when she has to support two kids alone... I went to graduate school while working two jobs and raising two kids solo, I wouldn't wish that tiresome fate on my worst enemy. Slept four hours a day for six years... Literally went into the psych ward from the sheer stress, now I have a degree, and it cost me everyone of my children's firsts...

 

But this is based on the premise that both parties agree and believe in this give and take. What evidence do you see that her husband is open to this? So she gambles on her career first? And if he reneges? She is less a career, education, and earning power which is for the direct benefit of the family.

 

OP - Do not put your career on hold. You will have more opportunities open to you later in life no matter what obstacles life throws at you with that under your belt. Far too many women gamble on raising the kids for future security and it comes back to bite them.

 

Did you husband give you any indications of this thought process prior to marriage? If not have you asked what changed? I think it is a very scary idea to have your whole identity to be dependent on others. Many women do this and then who are you? You need to develop yourself as well as being a mother, daughter, friend, etc.

[Els]

OP, as much as I feel for you, I can't help but think that you put yourself into this situation. You married this man, and you made a joint decision to have children. Was he not up front with you about his intentions for career and roles and such BEFORE all of that happened?

 

 

Yes, you read that right. I am seriously suggesting that marriage takes compromises of goals when people have children. Someone has to raise them. Either she will, he will, a family member will or a day care worker. She has to think with the other parent which way it will be. The reality is the kids need to be raised NOW, unlike a career which can be obtained later. What I suggested is ONE way they can do both, they can pick others.

 

But her husband is not interested in compromising. He has indicated that he wants HER to do it - he doesn't seem interested in taking turns, or talking to her about how they could compromise in this. He believes that it is her role because she is the woman. That is NOT compromising.

[Els]

Yes, you read that right. I am seriously suggesting that marriage takes compromises of goals when people have children. Someone has to raise them. Either she will, he will, a family member will or a day care worker. She has to think with the other parent which way it will be. The reality is the kids need to be raised NOW, unlike a career which can be obtained later. What I suggested is ONE way they can do both, they can pick others.

 

Medicine is one of the things you will find very difficult to do later in life. Not only will a 55 year old most likely NOT have the physical endurance to do residency, she will be a specialist at something like 65. Very bad idea.

[Got it]

I am just confused why it is up to the wife to blink in this stand off? We aren't talking about a fair back and forth, it isn't like she just started school and her spouse has changed his mind about it, obvious her career plan has been in effect for a number of years now.

 

Why does the husband get accommodation and excuses and the wife is expected to "be the better person" and "take one for the team"?

[GorillaTheater]

But her husband is not interested in compromising. He has indicated that he wants HER to do it - he doesn't seem interested in taking turns, or talking to her about how they could compromise in this. He believes that it is her role because she is the woman. That is NOT compromising.

 

I'm not sure we know how strongly the H feels about it. If I was the OP, my reaction would be "get bent", but probably the best way to go about it is to hash it out and determine where the deal-breakers are. If the H does feel pretty strongly about the Stepford Wife thing, it's better to establish that now rather than later. At that point both will have some decisions to make.

[Got it]

I think, for myself, seeing my mom thinking she married my father who was going to be the next Kennedy and she was going to be a politician's wife, stay at home, and just support and the negative (by my eyes) consequences to that, was a strong life lesson for me. I remember very early I would not be dependent on anyone else for money and I was never going to live in someone else's shadow. I would not gain satisfaction for that. And it gambled too much with my future and my potential children's future to limit my money earning ability.

[Els]

I'm not sure we know how strongly the H feels about it. If I was the OP, my reaction would be "get bent", but probably the best way to go about it is to hash it out and determine where the deal-breakers are. If the H does feel pretty strongly about the Stepford Wife thing, it's better to establish that now rather than later. At that point both will have some decisions to make.

 

Hey, GT, long time no see.

 

It's true that we don't know if the OP's H is open to compromise, unless she comes back and informs us. My post was mainly aimed at AtheistScholar, who was advocating that the OP just do what her husband wanted as 'compromise'. My point was, her advice wasn't compromise.

[GorillaTheater]

Hey, GT, long time no see.

 

I had been taking a break, and popped in today just to see what was going on. I had a PM from Emilia kindly asking my whereabouts, replied, and WHOOSH, sucked right back into the LS black hole.

[underwater2010]

Quote:

Originally Posted by underwater2010

Your kids and house should be first and foremost. The kids are only around for 18-20 yrs. That is time you will never get back with them.

 

First did you just suggest her HOUSE should be more important than what she wants? Really? Cause dusting is sooooooo fullfilling. If she becomes a dr she can hire someone to come in and clean for her and by the time she gets to that point, both kids should be in school.

 

Excuse me.....I should have said HOME. Although yes that is part of it...dusting. But is also filling a house with love and family. A maid does not fill a house with that.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxoo

He can't force you to play the role of 1950s housewife. But you can't force him to play the role of supportive spouse of a resident. Can you do it without his support?

 

GREAT question. She wouldn't be the first to do it on her own! And hey, more power to you if you do. What I'm pretty sure she won't be able to do is to do it WITH him being actually determinental to her goals, which this attitude is.

 

That is right...because it is so much better to raise children in a single parent household so you can have a career. I am hoping you guys are suggesting she leave him if he doesn't change his mind on what he would like.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got it

Why does the husband get accommodation and excuses and the wife is expected to "be the better person" and "take one for the team"?

 

Such a terrible attitude about things, it's like women are somehow still "lesser" because they were born with girl parts.

 

Actually all in all we are equal if not more because of our girl parts. We hold the past, present and future in our hands. We tend to control wether a house is happy or in torment. We are the compassion, love, and tenderness of a household. We are able to contribute money or not just because we can.

 

I'd really dig into his "new" attidude and find out what's sparking it, and honestly decide if this is going to be worth it to you.

 

That is the key point. They need to have a discussion on what their priorities as a TEAM with be. One or both will have to compromise.

 

I can't imagine trying to live a life with someone who wasn't willing to be my partner and wanted to sabatoge my goals.

 

So because someone has seperate ideas then yours, it is considered sabatoge. I am sure he got her pregnant on purpose...oh wait it takes two.

 

OP, good luck to you. I don't blame you for not wanting to be something you aren't. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting what he claims to want, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone who wants to BE that, but that doesn't sound like anything you desire for yourself, and I can't see how you'll rectify that.

 

And on that we agree. This is something they need to work on together. The opinions on a forum are not going to help.

[knitwit]

OP, first, I think it is great that you are choosing a career in medicine. At least in the US, women now are the majority going into med school- you will find lots of moms juggling family, school and residency. If you are in the US, you definitely won't be alone in that! I ultimately decided against going into med school, but worked with and talked with many women doctors, including those who went into med school later in life, all of whom experienced the Juggle. Unlike regular college, med school takes a LONG time and usually occurs during family/child bearing years, so it isn't unusual for the students to have families and kids by the end of it. Or at least that is what the doctors told me when I was considering it!

 

However, your issue remains the same regardless of your career choice. Basically, per your post, your husband is telling you that he does not want you to have a career.

 

I have a few questions for you:

 

1. Do you think you guys are struggling because you have a new baby? The first three months were the hardest for me and DH, and I wonder whether he is having a hard time adjusting and wondering whether he needs more help/focus at home? He might be concerned, because school AND being home with two little ones, ESP. breast-feeding- holy smokes, I don't know you do it! He might be worried that it is too much for you and him, and is trying to find a way to express that (a pretty poor way IMO but still an attempt.)

 

If this is the case, maybe discuss and find alternatives, such as bringing in a helper or family, etc, to help get past this intense time.

 

2. To your knowledge, has he been doing his own research to improve your marriage? He might be picking up articles, or re-thinking things, based on these website. For instance, the Marriage Builders website states that the job and career should support the family, not take away from it.

 

I actually agree with this, for me, personally, with the caveat that there are times where in order to get to the next step, you take one for the team. This can be school; it can be one or both spouses working extra overtime or extra jobs to keep the roof over the family's heads; as long as the overall goal is to get the family to a better place and all persons are on the same page, it can work.

 

If this is the case, I recommend sitting down with him and getting into the nitty gritty details of his and your concerns, and finding ways to address them that you can both accept.

 

-Housekeeping stuff is the easiest, because it can all be hired out.

-Childcare is harder: if one partner is dead set against day care and the other isn't, it is really, really hard.

-Time with family: you can follow a program like Marriage Builders, which works to ensure the the spouses get at least 15 hours/week undivided time, whenever that time is, to keep things on an even keel. If you can agree to follow a program, it removes finger pointing or having one person be the Planner all the time, etc.

-Post-school time with the family: maybe you can work together to determine which specialty you'll into. General practitioner? Dermatologist? Psychiatrist? Podiatrist? There are many specialties that will allow you to have set office hours.

 

3. Can you agree to keep things as they are until your little one is year old? I am not normally one to push things out, but I do believe that this is one of those times where allowing your new family to "grow" a bit might be helpful. At the end of a year, you both will hopefully have a better handle on the "new normal."

 

4. I ask this one gingerly, and mostly because this happened to me: Are you sure that he is actually saying that he doesn't want you to have a career? Did he send the article and discuss it with you, or are you basing your thoughts on this only on the article itself? When I was a new mom, and very stressed and hormonal- and this got worse for me around month 4- I took things much more seriously and literally then they were meant by my DH (or mom, or SIL, or friend). Since we don't have the article, or know more info about any discussions you've had with your DH, I have to put up the possibility that he just sent you something to discuss later, and it might not be as bad or extreme a situation as you believe right now.

 

It is my hope that he is taking this perspective due to this being a stressful time, and that historically he has supported you in your career goals.

 

If this is NOT the case, or if he is really developing a different perspective, then you have some serious discussions and decisions in front of you.

 

Whatever the situation is- I really have to give you some big thumbs up. If you are studying, while breastfeeding an infant, AND taking care of your three y/o, you are definitely an achiever in my book. You surely fit the "go-getter" personality types of most of the doctors I have gotten to work with!

[TaraMaiden]

Excuse me.....I should have said HOME. Although yes that is part of it...dusting. But is also filling a house with love and family. A maid does not fill a house with that.

Actually, that's not true. Find the right 'maid' and life can be extremely fulfilling. The lady hired to help my grandmother with running the house and helping with 8 children, became a member of the family, and is buried alongside my grandparents, in their grave, with them. I'm not suggesting exactly the same thing would happen. But it could, to a degree. there's no reason why a 'maid' shouldn't be a positive influence....

 

That is right...because it is so much better to raise children in a single parent household so you can have a career. I am hoping you guys are suggesting she leave him if he doesn't change his mind on what he would like.

I personally am suggesting she reject his ideology, unless he can provide the kind of support a man in the 1950's used to provide. If he can make outrageous demands, so can she. And it's highly likely in the current climate, that it will be an impossibility for him to fulfil. Therefore, they had better reach a more sensible decision. And if ultimately it means her going it lone - then there are support networks which would help that situation.

Remember, as father of the children, he would be jointly responsible for their day-to-day care. And he would have to step up to the plate and actually probably end up doing a lot more than he is doing at the moment.

 

 

So because someone has seperate ideas then yours, it is considered sabatoge. I am sure he got her pregnant on purpose...oh wait it takes two.

 

No, he has separate ideas. That's not the sabotage. The sabotage is his exertion of his will over hers and the unreasonable option he has given her, all the while knowing she is already in the throes of gaining a qualification.

 

Oh and, underwater2010, I must teach you how to quote-post.... That was hard work.

[knitwit]

QUOTE=underwater2010;4730544]

 

That is right...because it is so much better to raise children in a single parent household so you can have a career. I am hoping you guys are suggesting she leave him if he doesn't change his mind on what he would like.

 

 

If he really wants a homemaker, and she really wants to be a physician, then absolutely yes, I would recommend that they split.

 

You do realize that HE can also make the decision to go along with his wife having a career, in order to keep the family together, right?

 

I know of several families where the husband made enough money for the wives to comfortably stay at home, and the husband would have preferred it. However, the wife had her own career and kept working.

 

There are a lot of women- myself included- who do not want to be SAHMs. We would not do it, even if we could afford it. I have a driven personality. It is a key aspect of my personality- I like to work, I get a lot of fulfillment from it. I would not make a good SAHM. I would never be comfortable if I were in a position where I couldn't work and support my family. God help me if I should become incapacitated and unable to work. It is one of my greatest fears- right up there with something terrible happening to my son, husband, other family members.

 

I do find it interesting how the assumption is that the wife needs to take the shot on her career. She is 23 y/o and will be a physician. She would not a single mom for long, if she didn't want to be one.

[xxoo]

I asked if she can do it alone not to encourage divorce, but for her to really consider the question. The answer may very well be "no, not until the kids are older". You could if your husband were willing to take on the brunt of raising the kids for a few years, but he's not.

[tbf]

In doing the math based on your age of 23 and the amount of time it takes raise the first three year old, never mind the five month old, you must have a nanny and domestic help. If not, there's not enough time in a 24 hour day to handle everything, including school and graduate in a couple of years.

 

Now assuming you have a nanny and domestic help, this doesn't mesh with what you're portraying.

 

Apparently, we're no longer in Kansas.

Edited March 26, 2013 by tbf