Wanted: Marriage Proposal in an LDR

[foucaultspeaks]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been in a serious relationship with... hm, let's call him "M," for going on two years now. We are both educated professionals in our early 30s. For the first year, we were in the same east-coast city. Last year, he finished grad school and moved to the West Coast for a job. I'm finishing my degree this year, and we've been living in a long-distance situation for now.

 

I am very serious about "M" and want to marry him; I am convinced he is also serious about me, but no marriage proposal yet. And I'm getting anxious.

 

I am in a position to relocate to M's city this summer, and we've talked about moving in together. However, I have serious anxiety about moving in together without an engagement... it's a 3000 mile move that would take me away from family and friends, and it would really be for the sake of my relationship with M (which is fine in my view, but only if there is a serious commitment). I told M some month back that I was "deeply uncomfortable" with cohabiting before engagement. The talk went well back then, but as the time keeps ticking down to this summer (when the job would begin), I am beginning to think that the proposal will not come before I have to make the decision to move, or not.

 

My friends all like M, but they are virtually in consensus in saying that "he needs a fire under his ass." M is not pathologically non-committal, but I also think he's not feeling the same pressure I am to make a commitment. Especially given my deadline (I need to make a serious decision by June or July).

 

So, as I see it, I have a few options:

1) to move to his city, take the job, and move in with him with the hopes that the engagement would be forthcoming.

2) to move to his city, get my own place, and take the job to be close to him while still holding my own principle about cohabiting (This would be more expensive than I can really afford, though... and it seems sort of silly).

3) to delay moving to meet him until he's made a firmer decision regarding our relationship (I can continue to work here on the east coast until really any time, but this would perpetuate the LDR and maybe even send the wrong message, or an ultimatum)

 

So I ask the forum: to move or not to move? Am I being reasonable in the first place (e.g. is it reasonable to expect a commitment before I move coast-to-coast?) I don't want to force any man into a decision their not ready for, but just how much pressure could/should I put on M to at least mull this one over?

 

Any input you all could offer me would be VERY appreciated... all my friends say basically to "place a moratorium" on this decision until the summer, to put off thinking about it for now. Well, i would love to... but a big move like this takes time to plan, and at some point I need to confirm my plans with my employer.

 

Anyway, thanks.

[foucaultspeaks]

Oh... I guess it might be relevant to say also:

 

I have baggage with living with boyfriends that might influence how I feel about this issue. I let the last BF move in with me, thinking it would lead to marriage (like I would show him how awesome a wife I could be, and then he would surely pop the question!) It was seven years later that I finally asked him to move out... still no proposal, but he did cheat on me. So, um, that's something, right?

 

Anyway. I do feel pretty strongly that I do not want to "shack up" without a good indication of long-term commitment.

[TaraMaiden]

This is 2013, right....?

 

I strongly recommend you propose to him.

 

Take him out one evening, and buy 2 matching 'engagement' rings.

Promisory tokens.

Then ask him.

 

Because sure as eggs is eggs, you hang around waiting for him to propose and it will be another 7 years with zilch....

Face it.

What possible reason could he have to propose?

 

He has a GF who dotes on him;

There is talk of you both moving in together; That's 'commitment', isn't it?

You're both professionals.

 

Why would he marry, when everything is actually, so 'perfect'?

If it ain't broke - why fix it?

 

And why DO you want to get married?

What's with the engagement issue?

Why do you feel it necessary to rock this boat?

What's so 'wonderful' about marriage, anyway? (Have you seen the statistics?)

 

I'm firing these questions at you, because you'd better have some sound, logical and irrefutable answers to them.

Edited March 27, 2013 by TaraMaiden

[foucaultspeaks]

You know, I did have a girl friend of mine propose to her guy, and it worked out well. I'm attending that wedding soon. I guess I'm mostly concerned about M feeling emasculated, though.

 

I mean, point taken about "if it ain't broke, don't fix it," but being bi-coastal isn't either of our ideas of a perfect relationship... and that is where we're at right now. I think the crux of the issue is that I do want to get married, and in the end, I'm worried about moving across the country only to find our he doesn't feel the same way. It feels strangely like if I moved there for a BF, that I would be over-committing to compensate for his under-commitment.

[TaraMaiden]

Sorry hun - you need to address the questions. Because sure as rings is rings - he will be using the same objections.

 

You need to be prepared to convince him that marriage is a right, logical and reasonable step to take. And have all the answers ready.

 

And sadly, you are not the first lady to be in this situation.

we get a lot of ladies posting the same dilemma.....

[foucaultspeaks]

Yeah... I appreciate your list of questions. And I have a lot of peers in the same boat (perhaps not surprising given my age).

 

I don't know if your list was rhetorical (for me to prepare as I get ready to talk business with him), but maybe it will help to work out my answers here:

 

1) Why do I want to get married? Well aside from the gushy stuff (you know, love and all that is important, but a marriage takes a lot of work too), I'm ready to start thinking stability, family, kids in the next few years, and I want a partnership in that plan. I'm aware of the irony in mentioning kids/procreation today because of the SCOTUS discussions... but that's a big part of my own personal reasons: I plan on getting a house, building a stable career, in one place, and having a kid or two in the next couple/few years, and I am actively seeking a partner in that. This next bit is going to sound really cynical... but I need to know if M has committed to the same goals, ans pretty soon. If he doesn't want those things with me, I need to move on and seek someone who does.

 

2) Engagement issue: I am not sure what if being referred to here, but I think you're getting at the "why now?" aspect? Well, I feel like now is auspicious because a) we're approaching the two year mark (and 2 years should be enough time to know if you're serious about someone, right?) and b) I need to either move cross-country, or not (there does not seem to be any middle ground or third path here).

 

3) Why rock this boat? In a nutshell, because I want to get married, and my feelings matter a lot to me. I'm not trying to be snarky here; rather, I am actively trying to avoid discounting myself or my goals these days. In my twenties I often felt very sorry for myself for wanting these things, almost like it was immoral or unnatural for me to assert my feelings or go for what I want. Now, I admit and pursue what I want, which has made me moderately successful in my career path... but in interpersonal affairs I sometimes still doubt myself.

 

4) What is so wonderful about marriage? The opportunity to build a shared stability and security through shared commitment. Now, I know getting married doesn't promise any of us a lifetime (and the stats are pretty bad, I know). I'm also aware that marriage isn't necessary to do all those things that usually go with a long-term or lifetime partnership: a house, kids, a shared lifestyle, etc. But the commitment that marriage symbolizes (not the wedding itself, but the commitment one makes in the meantime) creates an ideal situation for success.

 

Anyway, thanks for pushing me to think about the practicalities of the thing. I think it will give M and I some interesting stuff to talk about.

[clia]

Hi everyone,

So, as I see it, I have a few options:

1) to move to his city, take the job, and move in with him with the hopes that the engagement would be forthcoming.

2) to move to his city, get my own place, and take the job to be close to him while still holding my own principle about cohabiting (This would be more expensive than I can really afford, though... and it seems sort of silly).

3) to delay moving to meet him until he's made a firmer decision regarding our relationship (I can continue to work here on the east coast until really any time, but this would perpetuate the LDR and maybe even send the wrong message, or an ultimatum)

 

I would do option 3. I would not move anywhere without a ring and a date, much less 3,000 miles away. And I would put a firm timeline (in your head) on how long you are willing to wait, and be ready to walk if the engagement doesn't happen. I don't blame you at all for being nervous; he is asking you to make a huge sacrifice with no risk on his end.

 

You have been together two years. You aren't kids. He doesn't need more time to bounce on top of you naked in a new city or to watch Netflix movies with you or to share appetizers with you at fancy restaurants. He should damn well know by now if he wants to marry you. It's not pressure to bring this up after 2 years when you are in your 30s. The fact that he hasn't stepped up to the plate is concerning -- you may well have to force him there by putting the fear of God into him by not moving out there at his whim.

 

He has nothing to lose by you moving out there; you have everything to lose. Your job, your family, your friends. You will be 3,000 miles away from all of that. If he doesn't realize what he is asking you to give up to be with him, he is an idiot. If he cares about you, he will want you to feel secure and happy when you move out there -- not scared and wondering whether you are doing the right thing. You can see all the threads on here of women who moved in with men who promised marriaged and then three, four, five years later were left wondering where the proposal was. If you move out there, he has no reason to step up to the plate. I know a woman who dated a man long distance for five years, gave up everything to move to where he lives, moved in with him, and six months later he asked her to move out. Devastating.

 

You obviously want to get married -- it is important to you. You also have some very tough decisions to make. If I were you, I would stay put until he brings it up again (provided he does so in the next few months). And then you can say to him very sweetly "Honey, as I told you before, I don't feel comfortable moving across the country and far away from my family and friends without being engaged." This isn't an ultimatum. You are telling him where you stand. He can either ask you to marry him, keep the status quo, or break up with you. You should be prepared for all of the above. If he doesn't bring it up, then you need to have another talk with him to find out his intentions. I know you don't want to force him into anything, but there comes a point in time where you need to know if you are wasting your time. When you have an intentions talk, you need to be ready to walk away from the relationship if he isn't prepared to propose.

[Keenly]

A woman pressuring a man to get married is one of the primary reasons a man gets scared off. If he loves you , he loves you, there is no need to force him to marry you. Bexausenjonestly it sounds like you care more about the engagement / wedding than the marriage.

[Zapbasket]

Hi,

 

I really sympathize with your predicament because I was in two relationships that were somewhat similar to yours. One involved me moving cross-country to be with the person and after experiencing how hard that was, with the relationship failing on top of it all, I will never move again for a relationship unless we are at the stage where both of us agree that marriage is the natural next step and he proposes.

 

I don't think you are misguided to insist upon a commitment before you move. I think also that it's wise not to cohabit until a wedding date is set and the invitations are sent. But at the same time, you don't want to push him into proposing to you to get you to move. If he's not ready to propose, he's not ready. This means you have two choices: to end the relationship, or to move out there. However, if you do move out there without an engagement, then I would do so for YOU and not the relationship. Maybe living on the west coast for a few years would be a worthy adventure. Maybe seeing how you and your partner handle your move and the new environment together is a worthy adventure, regardless of the outcome. You're not changing your values if you move, just your attitude. You'd be moving for YOU. Does that sound like something you'd want to do, for you?

[foucaultspeaks]

Thanks for all of your responses; it's nice to have some validation of my feelings on this one. I do think that moving this kind of distance to a totally new city for "just a boyfriend" is problematic. I do love him, and I do think I could "make the move, for me," but the sacrifices would be sizable too (I have been caring for an elderly relative here on the east coast, and I would have to hand off that role, which makes me sad).

 

I am not afraid of "scaring him off," frankly... because if after 2 years if he's not sure what he wants, it may benefit me to "scare him off." Nothing personal, but when I hear "don't speak up! you might scare him away," what I really hear is "your feelings are less important than his, and you should only play a passive role in your relationships." My boyfriend is an active partner in life, not a spooked baby deer that will bolt if I speak plainly.

 

Of course, Keenly you are right that I'm focused on the engagement... I feel like if we take that step commitment-wise before I make the life-altering decision to relocate, it might give me a sense of security. If I'm going to act as part of a "we," then perhaps it is not so crazy to ask him to do so also. It would be an ominous sign if, as Clia pointed out, I moved out there with the thought "am I doing the right thing here?"

 

That said, I think all of your responses have given me plenty to consider. I appreciate this sounding board... I think next time I visit M's city, we will get a cup of coffee and talk details about the next year. Maybe I can ease into a discussion about the potential move, and open the airwaves to discussing where "we" are headed in the next couple years as a couple. I am willing to accept (or at least entertain) any of the potential outcomes of delaying cohabiting right now (whether it be the continuation of LDR, a move "for me," or even a breakup).... but I think mostly I need to know where he stands on the issue. Maybe I should simply ask him.

[Els]

Can he not move to you instead, if the issue is the July deadline that you are afraid of missing?

[MissBee]

Okay before you ask him to marry you or wait on him to ask you...have you ever discussed this?

 

I don't think an engagement should be a surprise. I imagine the actual day/time might be a surprise, but you should have already as a couple discussed marriage, if you want to marry, when, etc. before rings and engagements are planned.

 

I do not believe all relationships naturally lead to marriage or an engagement and it's some magical surprise. It is a life choice that is discussed beforehand. You "believe" he wants to marry you but has he said so?

[samsungxoxo]

A woman pressuring a man to get married is one of the primary reasons a man gets scared off. If he loves you , he loves you, there is no need to force him to marry you. Bexausenjonestly it sounds like you care more about the engagement / wedding than the marriage.

If he loves her, he would propose on his own will without getting reminded.

 

Just dating and ''but we love each other'' wouldn't be good enough for me. I don't want that type of love.

[Nyla]

Two years is enough time, especially when you are in your thirties.

 

I like option 3. Keep on being honest about wanting marriage since it is important to you but don't give up your life if there is no engagement. What if you move for your boyfriend and he doesn't want to marry you? That would be a disappointing waste.

 

Do NOT give ultimatums unless you want a forced proposal. Dutiful marriages rarely work out.

 

My husband had some commitment issues when we were dating. I lovingly let him go because I wasn't going to wait forever for him to grow up, nor did I want to force marriage. This was when he finally asked me to move in with the understanding that we would marry.

[foucaultspeaks]

Okay before you ask him to marry you or wait on him to ask you...have you ever discussed this?

I don't think an engagement should be a surprise... You "believe" he wants to marry you but has he said so?

 

To clarify, we have discussed long-term life plans: jobs, house, kids, etc. We have discussed marriage in the abstract (e.g. mutually said "I would like to be married sometime soon," etc, but always in the abstract). We have not joined finances, but both of us are beginning to pool some resources for a house. Sometimes it feels like the writing is on the wall, but again, these kinds of plans have up to now remained super-tentative and abstract.

 

I guess if I did NOT have the awkward July deadline to decide on my job/relocation, I would not feel quite so much pressure to make the decision Right This Second. I agree an ultimatum is not the right way to go about this... I would never want to force this person i love into a corner. I also agree that I need to mirror the level of commitment M is putting out there, though... which means holding off on the big move until the marriage idea has been broached more concretely.

 

I head out there next weekend... maybe I will visit the site of the potential new job and explore whether moving out there on my own terms would be worth. I mean, California has amazing weather, why rule it out just because the proposal hasn't appeared yet? (i think even in that scenario, I would be maintaining a separate residence for starters though)

[MissBee]

To clarify, we have discussed long-term life plans: jobs, house, kids, etc. We have discussed marriage in the abstract (e.g. mutually said "I would like to be married sometime soon," etc, but always in the abstract). We have not joined finances, but both of us are beginning to pool some resources for a house. Sometimes it feels like the writing is on the wall, but again, these kinds of plans have up to now remained super-tentative and abstract.

 

I guess if I did NOT have the awkward July deadline to decide on my job/relocation, I would not feel quite so much pressure to make the decision Right This Second. I agree an ultimatum is not the right way to go about this... I would never want to force this person i love into a corner. I also agree that I need to mirror the level of commitment M is putting out there, though... which means holding off on the big move until the marriage idea has been broached more concretely.

 

I head out there next weekend... maybe I will visit the site of the potential new job and explore whether moving out there on my own terms would be worth. I mean, California has amazing weather, why rule it out just because the proposal hasn't appeared yet? (i think even in that scenario, I would be maintaining a separate residence for starters though)

 

Time to take it from the abstract to the concrete.

 

It seems one should concretely discuss, are we going to get married, before pooling resources for a house, in my opinion.

[HeatherNoble]

Hi:

 

I disagree with the guy who says, "asking for a proposal will scare the guy off." Is the man you want to be with scared of making a commitment to you? Or weak-spined enough to dislike a woman who speaks her mind? Should you wait around for ten years while he vacillates on the issue. Two years is enough, hon, if YOU see yourself being ONLY happy in a situation leading to marriage. I see nothing wrong with discussing what he wants and if marriage is something he sees for your relationship. If not, be prepared to move on. I mean it. Do not waste your time on a man who cannot commit. If he doesn't like this conversation, how will you ever delve into more difficult things down the line like death, loss of job, miscarriages or children? Don't kid yourself, that guy on here (who replied to this thread) is the exact guy you want to avoid. That is bad advice. If you think this guy is too young, and yes, young men are limp that way, go for an older man who already knows what he wants. Do not settle for less, you'll be waiting a long time. Men who don't commit LOVE to shack up and have a wife for free without committing...they get all the cooking, housework and sex but don't have to make a commitment. When did this happen? Ddon't let it happen to you. Are you worth a proposal? Are you worth the commitment, I suspect you are. you can bring it up in a matter of fact, nonconfrontational way. I suggest you make dinner, have sex and then bring it up while the oxytocin is flowing. Remember, men have a different emotional frequency. If he tells you he's not ready, tell him "it's been two years, I am, I can give this more time, but if this is a commitment phobia or you think you are too young, maybe we need to consider whether or life goals are really that compatible..." this is the conversation that needs to happen. Do it like an adult and be prepared to move on like an adult. If he's too pu**y to handle it like a man, find somebody who can. Life is short. terminal cancer might come for you or him tomorrow. Do you want the life you want? Do it. Do it right, do it kind, be honest and open but NEVER sell yourself short. EVER! You are worth it and if he doesnt' see it, he's not the man for you hon. Believe me when I say that.

[HeatherNoble]

A woman pressuring a man to get married is one of the primary reasons a man gets scared off. If he loves you , he loves you, there is no need to force him to marry you. Bexausenjonestly it sounds like you care more about the engagement / wedding than the marriage.

 

Worst advice ever. If this man is scared off by the prospect of committing to you, whom he supposedly loves enough to sleep with and have in his life, he is not worth your time. Period. Let him have his playtime and go find a grown up man who realizes he needs a good woman in his life and is willing to sacrifice that all important freedom. It does eventually happen that most men get tired of the singles scene and welcome the idea of a real relationship. that is what you want. besides, men don't marry doormats. Get some standards for yourself and let him know what they are...may I suggest you read 6 ways to crack the man code (Fiore) or even Steve Harvey's Act Like a Woman, Think Like a Man. If he's ANY kind of man he will realize what he's about to lose if you decide to move on....don't phrase it like that but let him know that at this point you would have thought to have gotten engaged. Doesn't need to be confrontational, but why hide your disappointment? I mean if you were with a guy for six months and hadn't slept with him (their priority) think they would give up on the pressure? Would you even expect him to stick around? I doubt it. They want what they want. And you want what you want.

 

Bottom line: if he wants his d**k wet more than the good relationship he already has, he's a fool and needs to let you know so you can find the relationship you want. Two years should get you the ring, even if you have to wait two more. If you wait until five for a shred of an engagement ring, you are to blame for wasting time.

 

There are plenty of good books out there. I would even suggest the recent book written by John Molloy - google it. Written by real researchers and, not surprisingly, real men.

 

Real men do eventually grow up.

[Lauriebell82]

I don't think you should propose to him, most boy's like to do that themselves.

 

I don't think you should move in with him if you are uncomfortable doing so. It will cause resentment and most likely anger towards him if he doesn't propose. Delaying moving for the sole purpose of a proposal, or the guarantee of a proposal is rather manipulative and would probably piss him off. It's an ultimatum. I doubt you want to force him to marry you.

 

I vote for option B. Move to his area and get your own apartment. You said you can't afford it, well get a smaller apartment then. If you are moving to be with him, then it shouldn't matter to you. And you will probably be at your boyfriend's a lot anyway.

 

I think getting your own place will show him that you don't NEED him, you WANT him. It will also show him that you are independent and are not moving just for the purpose of getting a proposal from him.

 

When my husband are I were dating, I was finishing grad school and planned to move back to the city where he lived/my parents lived. I chose to move in with him, I was unsure when he was going to propose and was anxious about it, however he had told me that I wasn't wasting my time. We lived together for a year before he proposed. I'm glad I made the decision that I did.

 

I think you're in a different situation though. You don't know IF your boyfriend is going to propose. So for that reason, I think you should move there but get your own apartment.