Should I be upset if he lied, but didn't "technically" cheat?

[balletgrl360]

Short version: Boyfriend and I are back together. He slept with another girl after we broke up, but should I believe he wasn't flirting/shady with her during our relationship? Can I be upset if (in my mind) it seems like he got number of girl cyclist he was attracted to and contacted her while we were still dating, to plan an alone cycling trip with her for when he knew we'd already be broken up? He says they didn't flirt while he was with me, but then why did he tell me about his other 3 trips (2 guys, 1 girl) with cycling partners, but never mentioned he was also planning one with her?

 

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Details..

 

We dated for 8 months. Boyfriend got in to school in DC and said he was going to break up with me in 3 months, when he left NYC for a road trip. Said didn't want to do long distance and wanted to just concentrate on his studies. We stayed together to be in love until the end. He left. We did no contact (his decision) for 3.5 months. He was coming back to NYC and we made plans to have lunch, then agreed to go on a day trip to cycle in Vermont. I wasn't going to be back until another week and half. He said he was leaving next day for week long cycling trip with his friend, I probably won't be able to reach me. I come back, we hang out (which surprises me, bc he left me), and we have sex on third night. Then we go on five day trip, and then he leaves for DC. And then I find out from him and Facebook that he had cycling trip with another girl and had sex with her.

 

We talk and sometimes flirt for 3 months, very gray area. He says he doesn't want a relationship and suggests we be friends (without sex). I say no, I can't be friends with him again. We don't talk for 2 weeks, then he calls me up and professes his love, asking me to move to DC to start a life with him. We've been "officially" dating for almost five months now, and he's been amazing, very sweet and caring. He's putting effort in and wants to marry me. We are great together, but I am having trouble with his story of events.

 

His story: he met the other girl on a group biking trip one time (beginning of our relationship) and got her number bc "she seemed cool and a good cyclist." He contacted her a few months before he left bc he was finding cycling buddies for his road trip and made plans for a trip with her. He broke up with me (like planned), they flirted. He calls and makes plans to see me, leaves next day on trip with her and sleeps with her for a week. He sees me 5 days after their trip, sleeps with me. He says he didn't have intentions to have sleep with her when he contacted her to plan, that he flirted AFTER the breakup. And he had no conflict about sleeping with her right before he planned to see me, because he didn't think we were going to have sex. I know I can't be mad because he didn't technically sleep with her during our relationship, just really close to me. What bothers me...

 

1. He slept w/this girl AFTER he had made plans to see me. So, he made plans with me, next day went on biking trip and slept with her for a week, then saw me 5 days later. But, I can't say he did anything wrong bc we weren't together. And he says they biked a few days, he got annoyed with her and cut the trip short, they went to meet up with his friends for a few days where they didn't have sex, and then had sex one more time (without protection) on way back to NYC.

 

2. I always trusted him on his biking trips, bc he said he wasn't attracted to the other cyclist girls. But, this is where he met and exchanged info with this girl. I feel lied to bc he told me later that he slept with her bc he was attracted to her.

 

3. Not illegal, but grosses me out... He met her when she had just graduated high school (so, she was 17, 18?). He's 25. He contacted her while she was a freshman, so when they had sex she was 18 or 19. This probably stings more bc she's a decade younger than me, and looks like an annoying little sorority girl.

 

4. I'm really struggling w/his version of the story because...

- He planned the trip while we were still dating. Claims no flirting, just planning trip thru email. BUT, if it was innocent, why*did he not tell me about the trip with her (while we were together) if he was just finding ppl to bike with? He told me about his 3 other trips (2 guys, 1 girl), never mentioned her.

- He's met MANY other cyclists on MANY group trips, so why did he get her number? Why did he specifically reach out to her to bike? He claims he never had intention of sex while we were together. So many other cyclists he could have gone with. The 3 other trips were w/his regular cycling partners.

- She starts writing on his FB wall within 2 weeks of our breakup, implied that they had already been speaking. Did they really "just plan" while he was dating me, and not flirt until after me?

- Everyone's opinion of cheating is different, but is it cheating if he contacted a girl he was attracted to while we were together, to plan a trip alone, that would occur after our breakup?

 

He slept with another girl he knew while we were broken up, but bothers me less bc she was one night and not the week before me. He says they meant nothing, that he's with me now.

- But, did he cheat/lie to me about her while we were still dating?

- Am I reading too much into things?

- Is there any part of this that I'm valid in feeling hurt?

 

I don't want to confront him if this is just insecurity, or me being too sensitive bc I can't personally separate sex and emotion. He's great now and I do believe he loves me. Do I move, even though I find his story fishy? (I could always message the girl and ask... but I won't let myself get that crazy.)

Edited March 27, 2013 by balletgrl360
spacing

[AverageCat]

Did he tell you about this girl when in a relationship with you? (I.e did you know about her as his friend).

 

You're not being too sensitive or insecure.

Don't message the girl, instead tell him that this bothers you (explain exactly what you've said here) and tell him to show you somehow, that it really "just happened" and he was pursuing that. (maybe show you his txt convos with the girl, so you can really judge if he was trying to get in her pants from the start... when he was in a relationship with you.)

 

And please do this and stick to your guns. Tell him that that bothers you and until you solve it you can never be really happy and trust him 100%... and be ready to walk away if he does nothing.

Sure, he could consider this as "insecure" or "crazy"... but that would mean that he doesn't really care about your needs and you should find yourself a better bf anyway.

 

Honestly it could be both ways, maybe he really "had to break up" with you and after he slept with her. Or maybe he wanted to discover the grass on the other side and therefore broke up with you. And whether it was considered cheating or not who cares. He left you to be with someone else. Who says he's not gonna do it again?

[Treasa]

You lost me at the part where he told you he was going to break up with you in three months, but you went along with it anyway. Once I got past it (took me a few minutes), I read the rest.

 

He didn't think he was going to sleep with her. He didn't think he was going to sleep with you. Blah blah blah. The point is that he did both. Unless both you and this girl raped him, he couldn't keep it in his pants.

 

You have to do what's right for you, but I personally wouldn't be with dude.

[balletgrl360]

Did he tell you about this girl when in a relationship with you? (I.e did you know about her as his friend).

 

 

I didn't know of her until I saw her start posting on his Facebook wall (within two weeks after our breakup). She goes to college in another state, but originally from NYC. It makes me wonder why he never mentioned this girl while we were dating, if he was "just planning a trip" with her. He took 3 other trips, all of which he told me about. Maybe I'm being insecure because I find it hard to believe he reached out to her with no interest. He meets so many cyclists on his trips, and he'd only met her once the summer before.

Edited March 27, 2013 by balletgrl360

[AverageCat]

Maybe I'm being insecure because I find it hard to believe he reached out to her with no interest.

 

you're not being insecure. I think the same thing on 70%-30% I'd say.

Talk to him.

[carhill]

Opinion?

 

He's one of those guys who one has to grill like Perry Mason in a courtroom to get an authentic and honest answer out of.

 

You're back together. How does he respond to your feelings regarding this dynamic?

 

IMO, he probably cheated, both emotionally and physically. Or he's Brad Pitt; or both.

[Quiet Storm]

Regardless of whether the lie involves cheating, it shows that you are involved with a dishonest person. He is either too cowardly, or doesn't respect you enough, to tell the truth.

 

People lie in order to avoid conflict or consequences. It may not seem to be a big deal to lie to your boss and call in sick, but the people you love deserve better than that.

 

We stayed together to be in love until the end. He left. We did no contact (his decision) for 3.5 months.

 

Men that are in love do not go "no contact" for 3.5 months. Men that are in love will keep in contact with you in order to keep the bond strong. They don't want to risk some other guy swooping in and chatting you up, and will stay as involved in your life as possible.

 

I think you are taking the relationship more seriously than he is. His actions show that he doesn't think you are "the one". He views you as the "right now", and may enjoy your companionship, but only until something that he perceives as better comes along.

 

I think you deserve better.

[balletgrl360]

 

You're back together. How does he respond to your feelings regarding this dynamic?

 

IMO, he probably cheated, both emotionally and physically. Or he's Brad Pitt; or both.

 

He gets frustrated and says I keep bringing it up, and he doesn't want to keep being made to feel guilty for something he was allowed to do while he was single. I see his point, but I don't think we've really talked about it, because the five or so times I brought it up, he would get defensive and I would shut down. But, I've told him recently the anger was to the point I question if we'd be better apart. No point if I can't put this behind me. I also said it was unfair for him to expect me to trust him again so quickly and easily. He said he didn't want to lose me and that he'd be more patient and supportive over my trust issues. That made me a little more hopeful.

 

Problem is, he doesn't know all my reasons for being angry. It seems he just thinks it's the act of sex with another girl, so that's why he gets defensive. IMO, he focuses on justifying that he was not wrong, instead of how hurt it made me. And I don't want to tell him my reasons if I'm just being insecure or jealous. I'm scared I might offend and hurt him for being grossed out he slept with a younger girl. He was 25, she was 18/19. I can't feel wronged if she was legal and he was free to do whatever.

[AverageCat]

Your main problem here seems to be again.... COMMUNICATION.

 

Why get angry at him? If you wanna develop a constructive open conversation you have to be non-judgmental and non-emotional...

[carhill]

Do you feel confident that, should you and he face issues in the future, similar behavior would ensue? Or, has he communicated to you a different perspective, one which his hiatus and having sex with another woman taught him?

 

Personally, I'm very suspect of people who break up and have casual sex with others. You may not be. It might be normal and customary in your life experience. We're all different. You reconciled with him. You continue to be in a relationship with him, presumably intimate, in light of the issues revealed here.

 

If you had to list three areas of compatibility and incompatibility, what would they be?

 

Also, reading your last paragraph, where you say you're 'scared' of sharing your complete 'reasons', what exactly are you scared of? That he'll leave you? If so, why is that scary? He's already left once and had sex with another woman, someone he lusted after as a minor apparently. Identify the fear and work the fear. That's where your answers lie.

[Quiet Storm]

Problem is, he doesn't know all my reasons for being angry. It seems he just thinks it's the act of sex with another girl, so that's why he gets defensive. IMO, he focuses on justifying that he was not wrong, instead of how hurt it made me.

 

This is because he isn't concerned about your feelings. He just wants you to let it go.

 

If he can talk you into believing that he did nothing wrong, then your hurt feelings will be unjustified, right? And if your feelings are hurt, then it's not his problem (from his point of view).

 

He doesn't want to validate your hurt because then he would feel responsible for your feelings, and he doesn't want that.

 

Maybe say to him, "I know you don't feel that you are wrong. But regardless of fault, the thought of you with someone else is very painful for me. On top of that, you lied to me. In order to rebuild our trust, I may need reassurance. I may need you to answer some questions. If you want me to trust you again, this is what I need."

 

And if he can't do it, then he doesn't really care, in my opinion. He did lie to you, and the consequence of lying is a loss of trust. It is not realistic or reasonable for him to expect you to trust him again, just because he says so. He did break the trust and it's up to him to earn it back.

[balletgrl360]

Men that are in love do not go "no contact" for 3.5 months.

 

No contact hurts, but I can see how people believe it's the best way to get over breakup.

 

 

I think you are taking the relationship more seriously than he is. His actions show that he doesn't think you are "the one".

 

Not defending him (just trying to present both sides), but he did ask me to move to DC and move in with him. He says he plans to marry me and has told his parents. And he says he didn't realize how much he still cared about me until he saw me again (after that other girl), that all his feelings came rushing back full force. (hormones, maybe? ) But, I'm not fully over how he treated me before, and how I think he was shady for not mentioning her.

[yessy21]

Man. im going to say this the nicest way possible.

 

 

RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[LonelyInsomniac]

While I wouldn't recommend trolling MTV regularly for advice, they do have this gem on your situation.

 

Sex doesn't happen accidentally.

 

With the exclusion of someone on the receiving end of being raped, there is always premeditation involved.

 

The fact that he basically pulled out of one hole and stuck it immediately in the next available orifice? Doesn't show any regard for either of you.

 

There's a good chance this biker girl doesn't even know you exist. If I were one of the suckers in a situation like this (and trust me: I have been) - I'd want to know. My ex fiancee did this to me and many others. Her former "fiancee", who was also frighteningly young, would have had his life on hold for her even longer than the four years he did had I not approached him.

 

I don't get why so many people try to uphold the "status quo" of cheaters. If she chooses to harbor her delusions over what's right in front of her face? That's on her. At least you will know you've done the right thing, despite any of the methods your "boyfriend" may use to cause you to question your judgment and intimidate you into silence.

[yessy21]

"and said he was going to break up with me in 3 months,"

 

RUNNNN CHILD RUUUNNN!!!!!

[Treasa]

I just won the lottery and bought a mansion and told everyone at work to F off.

 

....

 

Ok, I didn't, but it's really easy to say stuff that isn't true. He says he's planning on marrying you and that he's told his parents. That amounts to NOTHING.

[balletgrl360]

"and said he was going to break up with me in 3 months,"

 

RUNNNN CHILD RUUUNNN!!!!!

 

Really regret staying. I'm disappointed in myself for not having more self-respect. Oh, the naive in love..

[yessy21]

Really regret staying. I'm disappointed in myself for not having more self-respect. Oh, the naive in love..

 

 

We have all been there before. Thats why the signs are obvious to me but not to you.

 

My papa always said... when you want the answer to a situation... write it down and within that paragraph you will find the clues as to what is the right answer.

[AverageCat]

While I wouldn't recommend trolling MTV regularly for advice, they do have this gem on your situation.

 

Sex doesn't happen accidentally.

 

With the exclusion of someone on the receiving end of being raped, there is always premeditation involved.

 

The fact that he basically pulled out of one hole and stuck it immediately in the next available orifice? Doesn't show any regard for either of you.

 

Im gonna call BS on this.

He was single at the time. He didn't owe anyone anything. And honestly it's better he experiments while single...

My only Q. remains if the thought of being with biker girl was there before you guys decided to break up...

[Treasa]

Im gonna call BS on this.

He was single at the time. He didn't owe anyone anything. And honestly it's better he experiments while single...

My only Q. remains if the thought of being with biker girl was there before you guys decided to break up...

 

Premeditation can be as little as a split second. The fact is that he screwed another girl and then her in rapid succession. Most women aren't ok with that.

 

He doesn't seem to be taking this as seriously as her. I would lose him and fast. Yes, I'm sure if you tried super duper uber hard, you could use communication in a lot of situations...to make them somewhat better.

 

It's a hell of a lot easier to just find someone compatible who is respectful of you and makes you feel good about yourself.

[LonelyInsomniac]

Im gonna call BS on this.

He was single at the time. He didn't owe anyone anything. And honestly it's better he experiments while single...

My only Q. remains if the thought of being with biker girl was there before you guys decided to break up...

 

What OP is asking is if it's possible this guy just spontaneously, accidentally had sex with two different girls in one week all while planning not to. Two girls who, by the way, he's grooming to think are in or viable for some sort of relationship with him in the future.

 

This isn't pick-ups at the bar. These three people are clearly not being given the same rulebooks, and it's clear from the deceit ("I got her number because she seemed "cool" even though I never do **** like that, while also planning to break up with you anyway... by the way it's all coincidental honey, let's go back to bed") from both what he says and what Biker Girl says that he's looking to have his cake and eat it.

 

If he were not exploiting one girl's developed feelings for him, and a teenager's naivete? If it was bar hopping, or explicit "I'm just looking for something casual"? It'd be different. Much different.

[balletgrl360]

.. has he communicated to you a different perspective, one which his hiatus and having sex with another woman taught him?

 

Wish he expressed more things he learned, but he did say he was confused and shouldn't have been scared of a long distance relationship and broken it off with me before trying. And that now he realizes how special I am to him, and wants to spend his life with me. I try to be rational and keep in mind that people make mistakes.

 

 

Personally, I'm very suspect of people who break up and have casual sex with others. You may not be. It might be normal and customary in your life experience.

 

I didn't sleep with anyone. NOT saying I'm better. I agree that people just have different views on sex. I tried to talk myself into casual sex "to feel better," but couldn't do it. I knew I'd like the feeling of empowerment it could give me (as though I'd moved on), but I'd also feel so empty after... Honestly, though, if he ever did something ****ty like this again, I wouldn't be dumb (again) by waiting to date or have sex, in respect of our relationship.

[balletgrl360]

Your main problem here seems to be again.... COMMUNICATION.

 

Why get angry at him? If you wanna develop a constructive open conversation you have to be non-judgmental and non-emotional...

 

I know I have problems communicating in a relationship, and trying to fix it. And for the advice. I'm working on the "be non-emotional" part.

[balletgrl360]

Maybe say to him, "I know you don't feel that you are wrong. But regardless of fault, the thought of you with someone else is very painful for me. On top of that, you lied to me. In order to rebuild our trust, I may need reassurance. I may need you to answer some questions. If you want me to trust you again, this is what I need."

 

That is a good way to start talking to him about this. Would it be plagiarism if I said this?

[carhill]

In general, communicate your needs and fears and accept his answers, both in words and actions, as authentic. If they align with what you perceive as moving forward in a healthy manner for yourself, then proceed. If not, terminate the relationship. Regardless, accept the real, including your fears. Own it.