Raging!

[LeGenDary_Man]

While I must agree that the BW is A NUT, SHE SHOULD BE IN THERAPY!! Has anyone told her this? Maybe her Husband? She is not going to stop or get pass this if she is not in therapy. Individual Counseling!!! It does help!

 

I felt sorry for BW for about a minute....NOW she is just a delusional psychotic as......! Doesn't she have a job? Children to tend to? Reconciling with her hubby?

 

As far as child services coming to TheOW home....OH MY! OH MY! Please OW...let the police handle this from now on. I DO NOT TRUST THIS BW AT ALL!!!!! Keep your eyes WIDE OPEN! Look all around you when you go out. I MEAN IT! and also take protection with you! Something...Maybe Mace...yes, you need to protect yourself. I carry mace and a very large Swiss Army knife with me where ever I go. And I could and would use them if necessary!!!!! NO ONE and NO WHERE IS SAFE!!!!!!!

 

And how dare she rent a spot for you!! Who the hell does she think she is? Don't feel sorry for her at all! What an immature woman. She really needs to get over herself...OR GET A FREAKIN DIVORCE!!!!!! The xmm is a TOOL!!!!!!!

 

You can't stop the mind games that I am sure her husband is having about you. Moving you will solve NOTHING!!!!

 

THERAPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ever heard about "tit-for-tat" concept?

 

When you mess-up someone's life; you should realistically EXPECT some consequences to deal with in return. Some people easily let go; some do not.

 

In the nutshell; REFRAIN from damaging someone's marriage.

[Summer Breeze]

Ever heard about "tit-for-tat" concept?

 

When you mess-up someone's life; you should realistically EXPECT some consequences.

 

In the nutshell; REFRAIN from damaging someone's marriage.

 

I'd be interested in seeing if the BS is putting the xMM through such things. He's the one who should have protected his W and kids by saying no. He's the one she should be renting the house for and packing up to move, not TOW.

[Got it]

I am not Pierre, but I read his posts and can understand where he is coming from.

 

I'm a mom. I find it sad that so many people here are grieving for tow's children but seem to forget what the affair is doing to the bs's children.

 

If you don't like people hurting families then recognize tow DID hurt the kids of the BS and that is in part why IF she called CPS she may feel just in doing so. One turn deserves another in her mind I woułd suppose. Now TOW knows what's its like to have someone play games with her family, too bad she had to learn it this way instead of having the foresight to realize what this would do to TWO sets of children...

 

AS, Please! No one is ignoring their kids. What an attempted trump card that gets trodded out any time there is just a little sympathy for an OW.

 

So I guess the saying two wrongs don't make a right is incorrect. Awesome! Any means necessary right? What is good for the gander is good for the gander . . . Hmmm, seems to be the same things slapped down as rationalization by/for the WS/OP.

 

No one has forgotten, the BS is not posting, TOW is. So we are focused on the OP. If you want to start a thread as or for the BS feel free. If she was posting there would be a good bit if sympathy for her as well as telling her to knock off any potential illegal activity for her own good.

 

Sorry TOW, laws be damned.

[LeGenDary_Man]

I'd be interested in seeing if the BS is putting the xMM through such things. He's the one who should have protected his W and kids by saying no. He's the one she should be renting the house for and packing up to move, not TOW.

He and OW both are responsible for this mess in the first place. I can understand the "anger" of the BS.

 

When grown-ups STOP acting like grown-ups for self-gratifications; repercussions may be expected which can be even childish in nature.

 

It is possible that BS thinks that OW have set a bad example for her kids by having an affair with a married man; and BS is possibly using this as a retaliatory tool.

Edited March 30, 2013 by LeGenDary_Man

[Summer Breeze]

He and OW both are responsible for this mess in the first place. I can understand the "anger" of the BS.

 

When grown-ups STOP acting like grown-ups; childish reactions may be expected.

 

I agree they were both in this together but I do not accept she damaged his M. He did. Just like I don't accept he damaged her M. She did. It solves nothing for the BS to be laying all the blame on TOW when it was her H that thought so little of all he had to expose his W to all of this.

[Summer Breeze]

He and OW both are responsible for this mess in the first place. I can understand the "anger" of the BS.

 

When grown-ups STOP acting like grown-ups for self-gratifications; repercussions may be expected which can be even childish in nature.

 

It is possible that BS thinks that OW have set a bad example for her kids by having an affair with a married man; and BS is possibly using this as a retaliatory tool.

 

Responding to your addition.

 

We have no idea about the BS's kids. Ages or anything. If she were my friend though I'd be telling her that her own behavior is bordering on more dangerous and damaging than anything TOW did.

 

I do have immense sympathy for what he put his BS through and I have no problem with her confronting and even exposing TOW. But she's gone far beyond the pale now and I think TOW and her H going to the police is a good way to maybe slow her down and hopefully get her either thinking more rationally or looking for some help.

[LeGenDary_Man]

I agree they were both in this together but I do not accept she damaged his M. He did. Just like I don't accept he damaged her M. She did. It solves nothing for the BS to be laying all the blame on TOW when it was her H that thought so little of all he had to expose his W to all of this.

So you want to excuse OW from the damage she did to a family? Did the MM forced/coerced her (OW) in to having a relationship with him? Or is the OW too innocent to understand the consequences of her actions? I mean, seriously?

 

STOP defending OW blindly; she IS equally responsible for the MESS along with MM. And now she complains and wants to hurt BS physically; the irony.

Edited March 30, 2013 by LeGenDary_Man

[Summer Breeze]

So you want to excuse OW from the damage she did to a family? Did the MM forced/coerced her (OW) in to having a relationship with him? Or is the OW too innocent to understand the consequences of her actions? I mean, seriously?

 

STOP defending OW blindly; she IS equally responsible for the MESS along with MM. And now she complains; the irony.

 

If you'd like to actually read what I wrote you'd see answers to all of your questions but I'll break it down for you.

 

No she wasn't coerced. She cheated on her H and it blew her M apart. Her full and total responsibility.

 

She was not innocent because she cheated on her H and it blew her M apart. Her full and total responsibility.

 

She is absolutely able to understand the consequences of her actions and if you'd read her threads and posts here you'd see that she accepts it. She accepts that the BS has come after her because of it. She's accepted refusal of meds for her kids by a relative of the BS, she's gone to shopping in a different town to avoid the BS, she's laid low in any way possible to keep out of her radar, she actually accepted the BS coming into her home and pushing past her toddler to get at her. It's a small town and she's paying the price every day. Now the BS is renting her a house to move to? She's evidently called CPS? Really. That's reasonable? No it isn't and the involvement of the authorities pretty well says it all.

 

I'm not blindly siding with anyone here. I will say that my stance on infidelity is this -- the WS has full responsibility for protecting their M. Period. When my xH cheated it was him, not her who cheated on me. Others may choose to portion out the blame but I do not. I have never nor will I ever. Accountability yes but not blame. That's reserved for the person who betrays me.

[LeGenDary_Man]

If you'd like to actually read what I wrote you'd see answers to all of your questions but I'll break it down for you.

 

No she wasn't coerced. She cheated on her H and it blew her M apart. Her full and total responsibility.

 

She was not innocent because she cheated on her H and it blew her M apart. Her full and total responsibility.

 

She is absolutely able to understand the consequences of her actions and if you'd read her threads and posts here you'd see that she accepts it. She accepts that the BS has come after her because of it. She's accepted refusal of meds for her kids by a relative of the BS, she's gone to shopping in a different town to avoid the BS, she's laid low in any way possible to keep out of her radar, she actually accepted the BS coming into her home and pushing past her toddler to get at her. It's a small town and she's paying the price every day. Now the BS is renting her a house to move to? She's evidently called CPS? Really. That's reasonable? No it isn't and the involvement of the authorities pretty well says it all.

 

I'm not blindly siding with anyone here. I will say that my stance on infidelity is this -- the WS has full responsibility for protecting their M. Period. When my xH cheated it was him, not her who cheated on me. Others may choose to portion out the blame but I do not. I have never nor will I ever. Accountability yes but not blame. That's reserved for the person who betrays me.

Well, I appreciate the effort you put in this post to give me a summary of the situation here.

 

As far as the blame part is concerned; yes, your SO deserves to be blamed but this doesn't excuses OP from it. I have ZERO sympathy for those who CHEAT in relationships, period.

 

The only situation in which I would respect an OP would be if he/she would refuse to have a relationship with a MM or MW and let the MM and MW's spouse know in advance.

Edited March 30, 2013 by LeGenDary_Man

[Summer Breeze]

Well, I appreciate the effort you put in this post to give me a summary of the situation here.

 

As far as the blame part is concerned; yes, your SO deserves to be blamed but this doesn't excuses OP from it. I have ZERO sympathy for those who CHEAT in relationships, period.

 

The only situation in which I would respect an OP would be if he/she would refuse to have a relationship with a MM or MW and let the MM and MW's spouse know in advance.

 

I have no problem agreeing to disagree. I hate the hurt on both sides but I choose a pretty direct route for the blame based on my own experiences. I know everyone doesn't see it that way and I'm ok with that.

[spice4life]

Well, I appreciate the effort you put in this post to give me a summary of the situation here.

 

As far as the blame part is concerned; yes, your SO deserves to be blamed but this doesn't excuses OP from it. I have ZERO sympathy for those who CHEAT in relationships, period.

 

The only situation in which I would respect an OP would be if he/she would refuse to have a relationship with a MM or MW and let the MM and MW's spouse know in advance.

 

You should read tow's dday thread before making assumptions about the posters here. Regardless of what TheOW did, it does not excuse illegsl behavior. The BS is refusing to blame her husband and is placing all the blame at TOWs feet. Her behavior is out of control snd most likely it will land her in jail if she doesnt reign it in.

[Summer Breeze]

I guess you could use the OW logic, they are not the BS's kids, she has no obligation to make sure what she does doesn't hurt them. She didn't give birth to them so it is not her responsibility to worry if her selfish action will hurt them, after all their mother wasn't worried about it, so why should she. Yeah, see how dumb that sounds.

 

I'm sorry PA but what sounds dumb is you going on about something that isn't even on topic here. We know nothing about the BS children at all. TOW is taking all the blame she can and realizes what the repercussions have been. She's not denying a thing and for everyone to jump on the bandwagon that we're not being supportive of the BS and whatever children they have is a little far flung. We know nothing about them as they aren't the topic of the thread. TOW is not making any excusses for her actions and how the affected his BS or his family.

 

Why accuse her of something you have in your head but may not be even close to true?

[Summer Breeze]

One of the problems is that the BW may has successfully painted TOW as the bad guy in the movie and the entire town will not see TOW in a good light. It is no wonder CPS showed up. Even the local police may not have sympathy. In small towns life is a bit different. Maybe TOW should consider moving.

 

I see what you're saying Pierre but I don't see a government body showing up unprompted because someone had an A. Quite honestly they couldn't hire enough people to make those visits.

[anne1707]

One of the problems is that the BW may has successfully painted TOW as the bad guy in the movie and the entire town will not see TOW in a good light. It is no wonder CPS showed up. Even the local police may not have sympathy. In small towns life is a bit different. Maybe TOW should consider moving.

 

:lmao:

 

Oh please Pierre. You really do think you know it all don't you.

 

It is a small town that TOW lives in. I know, I have been there. But it is not some backwater place that is stuck in the 19th century with TOW seen as some harlot that should be sent to the workhouse.

[Summer Breeze]

The BW is 100% wrong in coming after TOW.

 

I still think the MM said something that made BW feel TOW was a very predatory woman that seduced her helpless H.

 

Otherwise, I really don't get all this rage. Who knows what MM said to save his skin!

 

Having said the above. It is goofy to see indignation by the pro EMR crowd in the forum. One of the risks of EMRs is exactly what we are seeing here.

 

If a man sleeps with a married woman and the BH hires someone to beat the OM to a pulp it is certainly a crime and a tragedy. But, the OM should have known there were risks involved. Some betrayed spouses go very crazoid. Anyone with some common sense should know that.

 

You're preaching to the choir here Pierre. I completely understand what can happen in these situations but for the purposes of this forum and this thread I'm carrying on saying the BS needs help before it does escalate further. I've also been a big talker about the uselessness of this MM in a lot so very many ways.

 

I still don't think CPS made some random call to her house because she had an A. That doesn't happen without some sort of trigger.

[dreamingoftigers]

The trauma from infidelity and divorce on children is palpable.

 

A visit from CPS is negligible.

 

 

I say it is negligible if TOW takes good care of her children.

 

CPS will not take the kids away if TOW is providing basic care. So yes I stand by my view. The damage is already done. The kids will grow with a two weekend a month dad and will not thrive as well as kids from intact couples.

 

The visit from CPS is imperceptible despite all the malice behind it.

 

I lost my daughter for a few months last year due to completely unsubstantiated accusations. Completely unsubstantiated. But the accusations were so serious that I had to go through a series of terms to have her returned. The person who made the accusations was targeting my parents specifically who often cared for my daughter. She also claimed to a be a nurse that worked with my brother. She was fired by my parents for gross incompetence and it was later revealed that she was not even a nurse at all. No qualifications of the sort.

 

My husband was not allowed to even visit her for two months. My own father was ordered out of his home and they tried to place him in RESIDENTIAL alcohol treatment. He managed to have that overturned and attended a relapse prevention program. My parents do not live with us.

 

People who file false reports are disgusting, vile creatures and social workers

who do not follow due diligence are even more disgusting and have special places in Hell reserved for them.

 

My daughter went from being an extremely soft and happy child to throwing temper tantrums and sobbing her eyes out when I couldn't take her home after a visit.

 

My life was completely pulled apart and evaluated. I was lucky enough to have been smart enough to have not consumed any illegal drugs EVER and had not had a drink in over ten years. I did however have a mental health history that was eight years old that I had sought treatment for and been discharged.

 

We were unlike the average couple in the fact that even though we were broke and felt held hostage to the system, we fought the order. We went to court.

 

They ripped me on the stand. They made out like I was a crazed stalking lunatic with no self-control whatsoever that was subjecting my child to reams of abuse.

 

Luckily, I had an amazing base of people, including the two social workers assigned to my case after the blatantly stupid assessor advocating for us.

 

My husband had issues. He did. We NEVER hit or yelled at our daughter EVER. period. We never did any of the other sick things we were accused of either to which there was no proof. Our daughter was consistently attached to us and that was observed.

 

But once a child is taken out of the home, the court date is set far in the distance and the terms can take weeks to start working.

 

I had to wait weeks for one of their government mental health evaluators. Then it turned out that they were restructuring and I needed to have it done privately. I found someone practicing who was familiar with the child services BS who evaluated me for free. Otherwise it would have me about $4800.00

 

I also hired a rather expensive lawyer. My parents themselves remortgaged to pay for their own legal fees.

 

My mother had to go for hair follicle testing to prove she wasn't the raging drug addict that the accuser made her out to be. My mother hasn't done drugs since the 60s!

 

The whole thing sickened me. I used to be proud to be Canadian and now I want to emigrate. Losing your kids is a whole lot easier than people make out it is.

 

The sad thing is, I think she was largely taken because my husband had a history of homelessness. We co-operated when the assessor first came over. We answered all of her questions honestly and she told us that removing a child was an absolute last resort and that she would work with our family to make sure that didn't happen.

 

The next day, the "nurse" returned to my parent's home to gather her remaining items. That night a report was filed saying my daughter was over there and that she had been "tampered with." my daughter wasn't even over there and I had pictures of where we had been. They seized her anyway.

 

They went to her dayhome and pried her fingers loose for her dayhome provider whom she was trying to cling to.

 

She was taken to a foster home with a Philippina woman (no racism here, just saying) and when she came back she had a thick Filippina accent and would occasionally yell the things she had heard, including "(I) am a bad girl!"

 

My heart broke. And even though she's been back for a year this month, the world split into two fragments: before she was taken and after.

 

She's still scared when someone playfully grabs her on the arm.

 

I wasn't sure if she'd be okay right away. But truth is after a week of being home she was so happy and improved from there.

 

She asked about her dad every visit until she could see him. I smuggled in video of him talking to her and she was so little she thought it was live. She would talk back to it and say she loved him.

 

A couple of times she played with the front desk phone and I would dial her Dad and/or my parents and she would talk to them. That made her really happy and they thought she was pretending.

 

She never really adjusted to being away from us. I'm glad for that. But it's a lot easier to lose your kids than what people think. One assessor's notes and opinion hold the majority sway. One assessor brings back notes to the "team" who make the decisions.

 

Fortunately in my case she got her ass handed to her when the "nurse" turned out not to be one and things unravelled from there. And no, CPS is not great about protecting their sources. At all.

 

CPS did return my daughter earlier than the supervision order and before a full trial. The hearing, plus our terms and their factual errors swayed heavily in our favor and the CPS-assigned fast-tracked her home after that.

 

I'm glad not everyone sucked in our case. But I'm sure it happens, often. I think low-income families are pretty good targets for the government "make-work" departments. In Ontario they run radio ads about reporting to child services. That's just .... odd. For so many reasons.

[Summer Breeze]

Wow DOT. What a horrible and amazing (in a bad way) story. Thanks for sharing it I don't think that could have been easy on you. I hope your D continues to make progress. She's lucky to have you as a mom and all the support around her that you had when fighting for her.

[sweet_pea]

I'm sorry PA but what sounds dumb is you going on about something that isn't even on topic here. We know nothing about the BS children at all. TOW is taking all the blame she can and realizes what the repercussions have been. She's not denying a thing and for everyone to jump on the bandwagon that we're not being supportive of the BS and whatever children they have is a little far flung. We know nothing about them as they aren't the topic of the thread. TOW is not making any excusses for her actions and how the affected his BS or his family.

 

Why accuse her of something you have in your head but may not be even close to true?

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure she is on topic. PA isn't talking about the BS' kids, she's talking about TOW's kids.

 

If you read her post, it says: "they are not BS' kids..." as in they are TOW's kids....

 

I think PA was just making a point about the BS/whoever calling in CS' on TOW and applying the logic of many OW to that situation.

[waterwoman]

Hey dreaming, so sorry xx I think I'd rather deal with H's affair 20 times over than experience what you did.

[Summer Breeze]

Actually, I'm pretty sure she is on topic. PA isn't talking about the BS' kids, she's talking about TOW's kids.

 

If you read her post, it says: "they are not BS' kids..." as in they are TOW's kids....

 

I think PA was just making a point about the BS/whoever calling in CS' on TOW and applying the logic of many OW to that situation.

 

I do apologize for that. You are completely right. That'll teach me for reading too quickly.

 

I will respond to the actual post now though. I don't know where the idea that many OW would do something like call CPS so I guess I don't see that logic used for this situation. If it was something more specifically targetted at TOW and not so directly aimed at the kids I could probably understand it but this is far beyond what any OW I've read in here would do.

 

Again I'm sorry about the misunderstanding to both you and PA!

[awkward]

I think the logic is that if you don't care about others, don't expect them to care about you. If you hurt others, they may hurt you back. If you tear apart my family, I may tear apart yours. Tit for Tat. That is what I got from the post. YMMV.

 

I'm not married to him = I'm not their mother.

[Summer Breeze]

I think the logic is that if you don't care about others, don't expect them to care about you. If you hurt others, they may hurt you back. If you tear apart my family, I may tear apart yours. Tit for Tat. That is what I got from the post. YMMV.

 

I'm not married to him = I'm not their mother.

 

I understand that but I don't believe I have ever seen any OW stretch that logic to cover purposely doing something that will specifically target the MMs and BSs kids in such a manner. I think it's a stretch that behavior like that from any person directly to kids is acceptable in any circumstance by anyone. Not saying it's right or good but kids get caught in the crossfire all the time but I haven't ever seen them in the crosshairs.

[awkward]

Summer I totally understand what you are saying. I think the point is that people do hurt other people's kids on purpose all in the name of love. Then try to minimize by saying they are resilient, they will get through it, etc. They may not call CPS but tearing the family apart is an unintended goal.

 

And it is not acceptable. Neither of them are.

[Summer Breeze]

Summer I totally understand what you are saying. I think the point is that people do hurt other people's kids on purpose all in the name of love. Then try to minimize by saying they are resilient, they will get through it, etc. They may not call CPS but tearing the family apart is an unintended goal.

 

And it is not acceptable. Neither of them are.

 

I agree. My xH tore my Ds life apart with his A. But she was resilient and she grew up to be a wonderful young woman despite his actions. Neither he nor his OW (now W) said I think I'll do something to specifically hurt D and I look at calling CPS as something aimed directly at the kids. I could deal with the A and getting her through what her father did but if his OW had called a false report to CPS I would have either finished her myself or hired someone to do it for me! To me that is a huge difference.

 

I know what you're saying and what the original post was getting at. Thanks for pointing it out to me and discussing it.

[awkward]

I agree. My xH tore my Ds life apart with his A. But she was resilient and she grew up to be a wonderful young woman despite his actions. Neither he nor his OW (now W) said I think I'll do something to specifically hurt D and I look at calling CPS as something aimed directly at the kids. I could deal with the A and getting her through what her father did but if his OW had called a false report to CPS I would have either finished her myself or hired someone to do it for me! To me that is a huge difference.

 

I know what you're saying and what the original post was getting at. Thanks for pointing it out to me and discussing it.

 

 

Sorry that your ex-husband was such a coward. I think it is great that your daughter was able to overcome such a devastating blow to her young life. He might not have said I think I will have an affair to hurt my daughter or hurt my wife, but he knew that having the affair would.

 

Just like I don't think the BS in this situation is saying I think I will hurt OW kids today. No, she wants to hurt OW. Regardless, BS crossed the line here.

 

I don't agree with Tit for Tat. OW was wrong. What she did was hurtful. It hurt her kids. It hurt BS and her family. MM was wrong. He hurt his wife and OW's family. BS was wrong. She hurt OW and her kids. There is a whole lot of wrong here that the kids never asked for. The kids have been hurt. It is time to stop hurting them. It would be great if OW took the lead here. Opening her door to MM even after CPS was called was not a good start. MM coming to visit OW was not a good start. BS leaving the country for a little while, that is probably a good start.