Just found out what happened on her hens weekend

[Mickster1984]

I am by no means a prude and have enjoyed a very open relationship with my wife. Not open in terms of sexual partners but rather in terms of our willingness to discuss anything and everything including fantasies without judging each other.

 

We have a semi-open relationship I suppose you could call it in that we have agreed that kissing other people is ok and we have done so including in front of each other. Basically I guess you could say our main focus is on honesty rather than monogamy (although neither of us have or want to have other sexual partners).

 

We have been together 4 years, married for 1 1/2. Now on our Bucks / Hens weekends we agreed that we would be very open about what we would allow each other to do, basically setting the line at no penetration but allowing almost everything else. I don’t think the exact details are particularly relevant.

 

So everything went off without a hitch. We have discussed many times what went down on those nights and are both comfortable with it. That was until a dinner party the other night when the girls all got a bit tipsy and some revelations came out that have me questioning my whole relationship.

 

My wifes ex is a stripper. Him and I have never got along. He is part of our extended group of friends but we rarely see him and he wasn’t there at the dinner party. He feels that I stole her from him and although that is not actually what happened I can see why from his point of view he would think that. He has long maintained an affection for her and has made it clear that he would always be there should she reconsider.

 

So come the Hens night her girlfriends decide it would be funny to organize him as the stripper. Of course he jumped at the chance. Now given what we had decided was allowed on that night, and given that not one mention has been made of the stripper being him ever until the slip up at the dinner party I feel that there must be something to hide.

 

My wife protests her innocence about knowing beforehand. She says that even though he was wanting it to go further nothing more than licking nipples and kissing happened. Now the act itself is not a concern to me, it is within what we said was allowed, but the fact that it was with him has me insanely jealous and angry.

 

She thinks I am totally overreacting as nothing happened and just doesn’t get that what happened is not the concern but rather who it happened with. Of course there is the side issue of why on Earth her friends would think that her ex was a good idea as the stripper but that is an issue that may need to be dealt with later.

 

Now I have never had reason to distrust my wife but now that I know that she had kept this secret I have nagging doubts. That in turn means that I question whether she is now telling the truth when she tells me what happened that night. It is not a nice feeling to have that distrust but I can’t shake it for fear of looking the fool if she really has been keeping more adulterous secrets.

 

We have both agreed to go to counseling and have our first appointment in a few days but I was just looking for any other opinions, advice or even just general comment about this situation.

 

My fear is that I will never regain that 100% trust that I had previously and I am the sort of person that needs that. If I have even just a lingering doubt I fear it will drive a wedge through us permanently.

 

My wife has made it clear she will do whatever it takes to make things right but with my feelings the way things are right now that has just opened up more questions.

 

If she did nothing wrong, she has nothing to make right.

If she did something wrong I don’t think I am strong enough to overcome it.

If it turns out it was just keeping the secret and nothing more then that would be about my limit as to what I would be able to move past.

 

I see a lot of people that have moved past infidelity in these forums but I just can’t see my being one of those people. Especially given that it was her ex and doubly especially given the relationship him and I have.

 

Thanks for listening.

[TaraMaiden]

You guys haven't been together long enough to be so liberal about your sexual attitudes.

You still have hang-ups, but your boundaries are so blurred I expect there is massive confusion in both your minds.

 

Get counselling with a professional psycho-sexual counsellor, both of you.

And quit "bragging" about how free-spirited you are.

 

You're not.

 

Jealousy is a major inhibitive factor, and she's over-stepped your limits, without being in the slightest bit aware of where they were.

 

Find a life-style you're both completely comfortable with, because clearly, what is happening, isn't really working.

[Mickster1984]

Find a life-style you're both completely comfortable with, because clearly, what is happening, isn't really working.

 

We have both been very comfortable in this lifestyle for 4 years. There is a problem when an ex is introduced into the equation but surely that is to be expected.

 

Jealousy is a major inhibitive factor, and she's over-stepped your limits, without being in the slightest bit aware of where they were.

 

You may be right but I cannot see how you come to that conclusion. If she was not aware that my limits were overstepped why the secrecy? We had discussed these nights in very intimate detail and there was never any mention that the stripper was her ex. Obviously that very important fact was hidden for a reason.

 

Get counselling with a professional psycho-sexual counsellor, both of you.

And quit "bragging" about how free-spirited you are.

 

It is just with a normal counselor at the moment but I am sure they will recommend someone else if they think it is appropriate.

 

.

You still have hang-ups, but your boundaries are so blurred I expect there is massive confusion in both your minds.

 

Our boundaries are very clear and to be honest have mostly been defined by her. We discussed the Bucks/Hens weekends in detail before the event and I can say with utmost certainty that what she did overstepped the mark just by not telling all the details when she got home, it's not blurry at all and even she admits that herself. And that is assuming that absolutely nothing else happened on that weekend.

[ExpatInItaly]

You mentioned that the boundaries are mostly defined by her. So, are you comfortable with those boundaries?

 

I absolutely think she kept it secret for a reason. It is (in my opinion, anyway) highly inappropriate that her EX was the stripper and that there was any sort of sexual contact between them. Even if I were in an open relationship, that would be unacceptable to me. Why was it acceptable for her? That's what I'd want to know.

[Mickster1984]

You mentioned that the boundaries are mostly defined by her. So, are you comfortable with those boundaries?

 

I guess what I mean is that I would be open to a more open relationship if that makes sense. She has different boundaries which I totally respect and would never cross. So in essence the boundaries are set by her purely because they are not as open as mine.

 

I absolutely think she kept it secret for a reason. It is (in my opinion, anyway) highly inappropriate that her EX was the stripper and that there was any sort of sexual contact between them. Even if I were in an open relationship, that would be unacceptable to me. Why was it acceptable for her? That's what I'd want to know.

 

She says it was kept a secret because she knew how I would react. Alarm bell rang as soon as I heard that.

 

She claims that she knew nothing of it, resisted when she first found out, eventually went with the flow with a lot of peer pressure and regretted it later.

 

I don't think that is out of the realms of possibility and if that is where is stopped and the truth was told after that it would be a whole different story. I would be pissed at her friends for organizing but not so much at her for going along with it. It is the secret for so long that is killing me. And the thought that I may never have found out if it weren't for the slip up.

 

And what other secrets is she keeping because of the way I might react? It is really killing me, after years of being in monogamous relationships when I knew they weren't for me to find someone on the same page as myself was such a blessing.

 

Now to find out that it is possibly not all as it looks on the surface is devastating.

[TaraMaiden]

!Oh, what a tangled web we weave

When first we practise to deceive!"

 

Your boundaries should be identical.

Having different boundaries means that they can be exploited.

 

However liberal or free you presume your lives to be, clearly there are still issues which both of you need to address.

If betrayal and jealousy have occurred, it's because you didn't set the boundaries as strongly as you obviously assumed.

 

Your boundaries should in fact be 'rules'.

 

You should both be 100% clear on what you both stand for.

There should be absolutely the same, equal clarity with regard to what you will NOT stand for.

[Mickster1984]

Your boundaries should be identical.

Having different boundaries means that they can be exploited.

 

Our boundaries are identical. Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. We sat down, we discussed it, we agreed an where the boundaries were. They were exactly where she wanted them to be so neither of us crossed into an area she was not comfortable with.

 

However liberal or free you presume your lives to be

 

You obviously have an issue with my lifestyle choice. Fair enough too, each to their own, but what do you hope to achieve by claiming my lifestyle isn't what I figure it to be?

 

Your boundaries should in fact be 'rules'.

 

Oh please, semantics. Of course they are rules.

 

You should both be 100% clear on what you both stand for.

There should be absolutely the same, equal clarity with regard to what you will NOT stand for.

 

That is what we had. She had betrayed that. I though that was clear. She has lost my trust, I cannot live without it. I don't know whether she can win it back. That has nothing to do with being in an open relationship.

[TaraMaiden]

Our boundaries are identical. Maybe you should re-read what I wrote. We sat down, we discussed it, we agreed an where the boundaries were. They were exactly where she wanted them to be so neither of us crossed into an area she was not comfortable with.

 

I did:

THis is what you wrote:

 

I guess what I mean is that I would be open to a more open relationship if that makes sense. She has different boundaries which I totally respect and would never cross.

 

 

 

You obviously have an issue with my lifestyle choice. Fair enough too, each to their own, but what do you hope to achieve by claiming my lifestyle isn't what I figure it to be?

You need to do some research; If you knew me, you would know that I have absolutely no issue with your lifestyle at all.

In fact, I often state that it's an impossible requirement, we are conditioned to accept, that we should be monogamous or have one single partner at a time. I think Polyamory is the 'marriage' of the future, myself.

 

Oh please, semantics. Of course they are rules.

 

Of course? Really? She obviously didn't abide by them or feel they were adequately binding.

Did she?

 

That is what we had. She had betrayed that. I though that was clear. She has lost my trust, I cannot live without it. I don't know whether she can win it back. That has nothing to do with being in an open relationship.

Oh tosh. Of course it has.

She just decided of her own free will, encouraged by the company she was with, to push the boundaries of acceptability. She knew what the boundaries were, according to you - but allowed herself to be exposed to a situation where she could make a choice.

She decided to chance her luck.

 

My wife protests her innocence about knowing beforehand. She says that even though he was wanting it to go further nothing more than licking nipples and kissing happened. Now the act itself is not a concern to me, it is within what we said was allowed, but the fact that it was with him has me insanely jealous and angry.

 

She thinks I am totally overreacting as nothing happened and just doesn’t get that what happened is not the concern but rather who it happened with.

 

Everything that happened - was absolutely OK with you.

No problem with the act.

 

And she knew that.

 

Most relationships which are held to be monogamous and 'closed' (as opposed to yours which appears to have some 'open' elements) would frown upon such actions.

 

The amount of posts from women objecting to their husbands even going to venues where lap and pole dancing are the specialities, are abundant.

 

There are equally, posts from men objecting to their GF's habits of talking to other men and going on hen nights, or those who take objection to the number of partners a woman has previously had ...

 

So your 'open relationship' has a great deal to do with this.

 

Your problem is with the person involved.

 

So do you consider this to be cheating?

Because if I were in your shoes, all it would constitute really, is a lack of, or poor, judgement.

 

She's not guilty of cheating, because you 'allow' such behaviour.

But she is guilty of a lack of forethought.

 

As such, your jealousy and mistrust are excessive.

By all means clarify that this should not happen again. But to say your trust is gone, is being overly dramatic.

 

Before you get irate with my response, stop and think a minute.

 

Your relationship is already outside of what most couples might consider to be 'the norm'.

You have explained what you have agreed with your partner, and have certain attitudes which to others would be deal-breakers.

 

All kudos to you, I have no issue with that.

 

YOUR issue - lies solely with the matter of who was involved.

And really, your issue is the fact that she withheld information.

Why?

Because as you put it, she sees nothing wrong with it....

 

So really, if you analyse this to its 'Nth' degree - YOU are the one with the problem.

 

You have already agreed to behaviour which others would automatically define as 'cheating'.

 

Your GF didn't 'cheat'.

Your GF was indiscreet, sure, but I hate to say this - given that you have broader 'boundaries' than others, to begin with, you're blowing this out of proportion.

 

Your lack of trust is less to do with her indiscretion, and more to do with your insecurity about the situation.

[Mickster1984]

I did:

THis is what you wrote:

 

Yep and it makes perfect sense. My boundaries are at one point and hers at another. We talk about it and agree of a point where we are both happy and both place both our boundaries at the same point not to be crossed. Makes perfect sense. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

I did:

Of course? Really? She obviously didn't abide by them or feel they were adequately binding.

Did she?

 

Just because the rule was broken does not make it less of a rule. Playing with words like that does you argument no justice at all.

 

Your problem is with the person involved.

 

That is what I said. Along with the lie (or more accurately omission) afterwards.

 

So do you consider this to be cheating?

 

No

 

She's not guilty of cheating, because you 'allow' such behaviour.

But she is guilty of a lack of forethought.

 

She is guilty of the lie afterwards which has led to a lack of trust on my part and a possible end to the marriage. No trust = no relationship

 

YOUR issue - lies solely with the matter of who was involved.

And really, your issue is the fact that she withheld information.

Why?

Because as you put it, she sees nothing wrong with it....

 

So really, if you analyse this to its 'Nth' degree - YOU are the one with the problem.

 

I don't disagree with most of that but it doesn't change the fact that the trust is gone.

 

And please don't try and take the blame from her when she obviously crossed a line and knew it hence why it was kept quiet. You sound like a ranting feminist if you claim no fault lies with her.

 

Your lack of trust is less to do with her indiscretion, and more to do with your insecurity about the situation.

 

The lack of trust comes solely from the coverup, the lie, the omission, whatever you would like to call it. One of our "rules" is total honesty and that has been broken. To me that is unacceptable.

 

Sure I am also angry about the fact it was her ex but I would still be angry if the lie came and it was a stranger.

 

The ex part angers me but I blame her friends more than my wife for that. There is no-one to blame but my wife for the lie and our whole marriage is based on total honesty.

 

Maybe in a 'normal' marriage the lie might not be so great of a deal but to us, well to me at least, the lie is the killer.

[xxoo]

She knew it was wrong. That's why she left out that incredibly interesting detail.

 

If she continues to plead innocence, I don't see much hope. How can you trust someone if inappropriate situations "just happen" to them, and they lie about them because they want to avoid the consequences? You can't.

 

To regain trust, she's going to have to take responsibility.

[TaraMaiden]

The lack of trust comes solely from the coverup, the lie, the omission, whatever you would like to call it. One of our "rules" is total honesty and that has been broken. To me that is unacceptable.

 

Sure I am also angry about the fact it was her ex but I would still be angry if the lie came and it was a stranger.

 

The ex part angers me but I blame her friends more than my wife for that. There is no-one to blame but my wife for the lie and our whole marriage is based on total honesty.

 

Maybe in a 'normal' marriage the lie might not be so great of a deal but to us, well to me at least, the lie is the killer.

 

Cool...... Now we're getting somewhere. Or at least, I am. Discussions of this nature bring clarification....

 

The bolded part:

 

I disagree with your assessment of her friends' actions being culpable.

 

In her shoes, what would you have done?

If it had been a reverse situation, would you in all honesty, notwithstanding your friends' actions, would you have acted as your wife did, with an ex?

 

Her crime, therefore, is not only that she lied to you.

Her fault is also that she did not do the right thing, and thus also Disrespected you.

 

Remember the three stalwart supports of a sound relationship (As I have posted elsewhere):

 

They are in fact, like the tripod supporting the fragile porcelain dish within the laboratory....

These three, inseparable and co-effective factors are:

 

Communication (effective and constructive)

Respect (For self and partner)

Trust.

 

If one of these is damaged, bent or broken, the other two - with the best will and effort in the world - cannot function effectively to hold the relationship up on their own, or even as a pair...

 

Trust is like the precious, antique porcelain statuette;

Beautiful and valuable and the envy of all your friends - but if it gets chipped or damaged, no matter how expert or invisible the repair, no matter how skilfully restored - the damage is done. The item has lost its value, and even if the mend is unseen to the naked eye - YOU know it's there... and it constantly bugs you, every time you gaze upon the piece...

 

Trust is exactly like that.

Of the three, it's the most precious - but the hardest to remedy too.

 

It rather seems as if her respect for you may also be found wanting.

 

I'm sorry if I've appeared confrontational.

As I said: I have absolutely no objection to open relationships, nor polyamory... In fact, I believe it to be far more representative of what an awful lot of humans are programmed to... as mammals, we have a natural proclivity for having several partners and not being monogamous.

 

but I digress.

The damage in any sphere or type of relationship, is when the agreements are not respected.

 

Perhaps this gives you more 'food' for discussion at your Counselling session......

[Mickster1984]

In her shoes, what would you have done?

 

I have been in that situation.

 

It was not a my bucks weekend but at a party about a year after we were together. An ex caught me out the back alone and put the moves on me. I could have done anything and no-one would have known. I did nothing, NOTHING!!!

 

I told my girlfriend (at the time, now wife) all about it. You know, honesty and all.

 

Nothing happened, there was no need to tell but I do not believe in secrets, I believe in total and full disclosure of everything.

 

I have done nothing but tell her everything since we have been together. I thought she was doing the same. I know know that not to be true, I just wonder how deep it goes or whether it was just this one time.

[dichotomy]

As I understand open relationships the proposed benefit besides increased sexuality is honesty. Often this honesty and openness is the main argument for this lifestyle.

 

Also I understand in many cases there is both some sort of sexual boundary and an emotional one? On the sexual side it usually is something like condoms of course and then maybe something like anal or oral finishing. I find it interesting that in most open marriages there is still something reserved as special only for each other. Your sexual boundaries are very high and set by her

 

 

On the emotional side I often hear that there is a clear boundary on emotional connections at all that is it is supposed to be just a physical release or pleasure and emotional connections are reserved for the primary. Otherwise I think this becomes polyamory and not an open marriage.

 

 

Messing with an ex seems like crossing an emotional boundary and for sure she lied and hid. So one can make the case she cheated or betrayed you even though you have a semi open marriage.

Edited March 30, 2013 by dichotomy

[TiredFamilyGuy]

"She thinks I am totally overreacting as nothing happened"

 

You don't have a common understanding. She feels she had a pass. But you disagree.

 

You are not facing facts.

 

You want to each keep kissing other people but never have problems with jealousy? Fantasyland. "It was just kissing" is one step from "It was only sex". It is foolish - unintended consequences of your arrangement would always be near at hand.

 

Your boundaries don't seem clear to other people either. A natural consequence of having your own set which allows behaviour that is near-universally regarded as cheating.

 

I agree it's about trust. Seems you can't rely on your wife.

 

If it is as it seems, this became apparent over dinner with friends, oh the humiliation.

 

But, as you have already agreed to behaviour which others would automatically define as 'cheating' I think this time you have to just suck it up and pretend, just like your wife.

 

You and your wife are both in denial.

 

You, about the conflict between the free spirited open marriage that you seem to preen yourself on having chosen, and the fact that you experience jealousy. The two are simply not as disconnected as you are prepared to acknowledge. She, that lying by omission is not lying.

 

Lastly, FGS don't have kids together while still in open marriage fantasyland.

Edited March 31, 2013 by TiredFamilyGuy

[Mickster1984]

You don't have a common understanding. She feels she had a pass. But you disagree.

 

No, we had a common understanding, she knew exactly what she was doing. The facts support that. If she believed she had a "free pass" as you put it and it was all within our rules then there would have been no need for it to be kept secret.

 

You want to each keep kissing other people but never have problems with jealousy? Fantasyland. "It was just kissing" is one step from "It was only sex". It is foolish - unintended consequences of your arrangement would always be near at hand.

 

If our rules were stuck to there would be no issue with jealousy, that is correct. I have never had an issue hearing about or seeing her kiss anyone else before but an ex crosses the line.

 

Even though it was not specifically discussed I'm pretty sure it is just a given that exes are excluded. I'm sure in a "normal" relationship you don't discuss "hey, I don't want you hanging out with your ex", it is just a given. Same applies here.

 

I don't believe I would have a problem if we did progress to sex with other people either, although that is not on the cards.

 

I guess we all learn from our mistakes and not specifically discussing that exes are out of bounds was obviously a mistake even though I thought it obvious.

 

If it is as it seems, this became apparent over dinner with friends, oh the humiliation.

 

It didn't happen exactly like that. I was outside down the side of the house (having a leak) and was near an open window of a room the girls were in. I overheard the conversation where this was mentioned. It was just pure luck that I heard it.

 

I didn't bring it up with her until we got home.

 

You, about the conflict between the free spirited open marriage that you seem to preen yourself on having chosen, and the fact that you experience jealousy. The two are simply not as disconnected as you are prepared to acknowledge. She, that lying by omission is not lying.

 

Again there would be zero jealousy if the rules had been followed. I am not a perfect person. I get angry, I experience jealousy, I overreact.

 

But in this case the jealousy is not over the act but over the person, the person should never have been involved, if they were not, there would be no jealousy.

 

She acknowledges now that she should have told me and has many reasons why she did it. I understand what she is saying but right now I just don't 100% believe her. I am worried that that trust will never return and I cannot move on without that trust.

 

She has asked what she can do to regain my trust and honestly I don't know what the answer is, or even if it's possible.

[TiredFamilyGuy]

" I'm sure in a "normal" relationship you don't discuss "hey, I don't want you hanging out with your ex", it is just a given. Same applies here."

 

Ah. You don't have a normal relationship. The marriage contract is explicitly exclusive. Your own looser arrangement is less so. You are in denial.

 

You assert you have an important broken deal here. Your wife disagrees. But you are adamant to the point of being shrill, that you have a clear common understanding. You are in denial.

 

You are both evidently champions at rationalising.

 

How can you trust your wife? In this classic "Overheard her talking with her BFFs" situation, you can't.

 

She got busted and won't accept it. You want to have your cake and eat it, but won't accept that. To give you no wiggle room here "The cake" is the heightened sensuality and daring free-spiritedness of a semi-open relationship where you each enjoy what would be elsewhere considered extramarital sexual relations. "Eating it" is crying foul when you feel jealous.

 

Yes she broke the deal. It's a deal that was made to be broken. That's why people don't often make that deal.

 

I'm striving to be clear. But it's like, you have your fingers in your ears going "La la la" here.

Edited March 31, 2013 by TiredFamilyGuy

[Wanting1]

Well, now you know who your wife really is. She has no problems breaking your rules, as long as you don't know about it. I mean, what you don't know can't hurt you, right? And how dare you get mad that she lied to you (by omission) about it. So, in the future, she can do what ever she pleases with whomever she wants. She'll be completely honest about the things that you would be okay with and will only lie about the stuff that would hurt you and make you mad. That's the deal she wants.

[Mickster1984]

Ah. You don't have a normal relationship. The marriage contract is explicitly exclusive. Your own looser arrangement is less so. You are in denial.

 

There is nothing "loose" about our arrangement at all. There is no denial, the boundaries were clear and the boundaries were crossed. She even acknowledges that herself, she just claims there are extenuating circumstances.

 

You assert you have an important broken deal here. Your wife disagrees. But you are adamant to the point of being shrill, that you have a clear common understanding. You are in denial.

 

As above, my wife does not disagree, she acknowledges she stuffed up. The issue we have is about regaining trust and about how the extenuating circumstances are no grounds for bending of the rules.

 

Where is the denial?

 

She got busted and won't accept it. You want to have your cake and eat it, but won't accept that. To give you no wiggle room here "The cake" is the heightened sensuality and daring free-spiritedness of a semi-open relationship where you each enjoy what would be elsewhere considered extramarital sexual relations. "Eating it" is crying foul when you feel jealous.

 

Again, my wife has accepted she got "busted" and had accepted responsibility for that. She claims (which I disagree with) that there were circumstances which should lessen the impact of this.

 

I am not crying foul for feeling jealous. jealousy exists in any relationship and different times. I have been jealous but I am not crying foul over it. What I am crying foul over is the secrecy when all should have been revealed.

 

I'm striving to be clear. But it's like, you have your fingers in your ears going "La la la" here.

 

You have made it very clear. You have an issue with this type of relationship and you want to pick fault with it rather than respond to the real issue of her lying and secrecy. Because at a grass roots level that is where the problem is (the lie), we are and have been for years very comfortable with our openness. I am not and never have been comfortable with anything less that full disclosure.

[Mickster1984]

That's the deal she wants.

 

No, I don't think that's true.

 

I do think she just stuffed up but as much as my head can tell me that and say everyone deserves a chance and just put it all behind me my heart still hangs on to it.

 

That is why I am doubtful about whether I can regain the full trust that I need. Even though it was a mistake, it may still end up being too much for me to deal with.

[CarrieT]

That is why I am doubtful about whether I can regain the full trust that I need. Even though it was a mistake, it may still end up being too much for me to deal with.

 

I am one who had a very similar relationship with my husband that you had with your wife.

 

And, like you, our open marriage (as we defined it) was full of frank talks, extreme open conversations, and a few small parameters that we both thought we could abide by.

 

Also, like your wife, both my husband and I thought there were the occasions of extenuating circumstances....

 

Sadly, for us, it did not work out for us so I know exactly the mental state you are in right now. You are playing with fire with these types of situations and are now trying to put a band-aid on a wound.

 

If you both want to repair the damage and continue in the marriage, I would heartily suggest you find a good marriage counselor that can help you rebuild the lost trust. There are many who deal with alternative relationships and lifestyles so you need to find one that is not judgmental about open marriages.

 

You two also have to decide if you are ready to continue in the lifestyle. THIS IS CRITICAL. You may not be able to! These occasional bouts of jealousy and changing rules has already broken the trust and it may be that the only way to regain the trust is to go back to a 100% traditional marriage where there is NO external play of any kind with other people. That will be for you two to decide.

 

For me, the changing of rules ultimately caused a divorce and it was almost 25 years before I was able to fully recommit to another person in the form of a marriage - and, in this case, while a very kinky relationship it is, does not involve external play with others whatsoever.

 

I wish you luck.

[TaraMaiden]

Like, Like ^^^Like, Like and Like again.

 

I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for CarrieT.

 

While I personally cannot bring myself to indulge in many of the practices and activities she has indulged in, I do not for one instant of a nano-second either judge or condemn them, nor would I ever criticise.

 

On the contrary - I applaud her.

 

I don't consider myself to be 'hung up' about it - it's just not my bag, but more power to her knees elbows and all other anatomical sections, for doing what she does - or has done.

 

OP - if honestly you are going to listen to anyone on this subject matter, then I would most emphatically suggest you listen to CarrieT.

 

If I may sound flippant for a second (and it's not my intention to be) if you're going to indulge in this kind of relationship, nobody here knows better than she does, of the dynamics required - essential and vital - to 'do what you're doing'.

 

Something in your relationship has gone seriously wrong.

Because seriously, you weren't doing it right.

 

Follow the above advice.

 

That's all I can say.

[CarrieT]

I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for CarrieT.

 

On the contrary - I applaud her.

 

OP - if honestly you are going to listen to anyone on this subject matter, then I would most emphatically suggest you listen to CarrieT.

 

:o:o:o Aw, shucks... :o:o:o

[Mickster1984]

Also, like your wife, both my husband and I thought there were the occasions of extenuating circumstances....

 

Just to be clear, in case it's not, my wife acknowledges that her actions in letting her ex strip for her was wrong, she is not claiming extenuating circumstances here, she admits fully that she was wrong.

 

She is however claiming that the reason she did not divulge all about that weekend (only that it was her ex, I knew every other detail) was due to my feelings towards him. She claims she did not tell me because no good would come from it. She claims this is the extenuating circumstance as to why she was not totally honest for the first and only time.

 

You are playing with fire with these types of situations and are now trying to put a band-aid on a wound.

 

I have no desire to patch the wound. Either it will be healed or I will be gone. I cannot be in a relationship where I cannot explicitly trust my partner.

 

There are many who deal with alternative relationships and lifestyles so you need to find one that is not judgmental about open marriages.

 

We have our first session this coming Thursday. They are just a traditional counselor, I would have no idea where to look for one that specialises in alternative relationships. Hopefully this counselor can direct us to an appropriate one otherwise I need to start looking. We are in Victoria, Australia if anyone has any suggestions.

 

You two also have to decide if you are ready to continue in the lifestyle. THIS IS CRITICAL.

 

We have already made the decision to quit this lifestyle for the time being while we sort through this. What will be will be and we may or may not go back to it, that is if we can even get through this.

 

These occasional bouts of jealousy

 

Now here is where I take issue. I don't see jealousy as any major issue. Jealousy exists in all relationships at some time, it is not exclusive to open marriages.

 

I have been jealous in monogamous relationships before. That doesn't make the relationship any weaker.

 

In relation to this situation, I may well be jealous of her ex and what happened but my actions would have been no different had it have been a complete stranger. I only see jealousy as an issue if it takes control of a person and I don't believe that has happened here.

[TiredFamilyGuy]

It's true I think you can't see the wood for the trees here, and to quote CarrieT are "playing with fire".

 

But to your problem, just on your own terms, it seems to me that any kind of open marriage would be more delicate regarding trust issues than A conventional one. Without the trust, what remains?

 

I'm sorta with the poster who said "She'll be completely honest about the things that you would be okay with and will only lie about the stuff that would hurt you and make you mad."

 

If she can really own that omission as a lie, you have a chance. I wish you well.

Edited March 31, 2013 by TiredFamilyGuy

[Radu]

I honestly see 4 issues :

- she kept this from you, so that's a breach of trust in itself

- she acted like it's no big thing, even though she knew it would be [otherwise she would have told you]

- she must have known how you feel about this guy; if she truly had you on her mind she would have pulled back and asked you later about it

- her gf's have become enemies of your marriage

 

Bottom line, she cheated.

Not in the sense that she slept with him, but in the sense that she broke your trust in her.

If she can't see that this is 'bad' ... sucks, but better to end it.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Radu