Intermittent Fasting?

[Star Gazer]

Anyone do this with good results in fat loss ANS muscle gain?

 

My CrossFit and bodybuilding guy friends swear by it, but conceptually it doesn't seem that much different than what I do now. Specifically, what one does is a 16/8 protocol twice a week, so that twice a week he fasts for 16 hours (including sleep) and eats for 8. He eats breakfast at 10 a.m., eats throughout the day, and stops eating at 6 p.m. That's kinda how I eat anyway, so, I don't see how the timing of eating works.

 

Any explanation from those who are in the know?

[fortyninethousand322]

I've heard about it And might try it. Tman posted in another thread that he tried it and dropped 20 lbs without any loss of strength.

 

I'm thinking about trying it. I've heard that you don't have to do 16/8, you can go 18/6 or even 19/5.

 

I'm not one who ever believed in timing of meals mattering. I don't like to eat late at night anyway though because it tends to give me heartburn. But, I've heard a lot about this and I've been reading about IF at lean gains.

[Star Gazer]

Ah, tman did it, eh? Of course he did.

 

Paging tman...

[crosswordfiend]

I'm sure that someone else can explain it much better, but it has something to do with serum insulin levels. Insulin is secreted in response to glucose in the blood stream, ie after a meal. When insulin levels are high, the energy stored by the body in fat cells cannot be utilized. Prolonged fasting periods result in a greater length of time where insulin levels are below the threshold at which energy from fat cells can be burned.

 

If you are essentially doing this, I would ask your friends about the composition of their diet. Best results will be seen if you reduce carbohydrates and especially sugar intake for protein and fat.

[tman666]

I've been doing it for a little over 2 years now, non-stop

 

Like your friend suggested, I do a 16/8 split (Leangains, basically) on most days. Well, truth be told, I generally only get a 15 hr fast in due to how things end up shaking out with my work schedule, but the concept of what I do is based on the concepts that Martin Berkhan espouses.

 

When I first heard of IF, I was highly skeptical. I came from the "eat 5,000 calories per day, don't go more than 2-3 hours without eating" school of "bodybuilding common knowledge" , so naturally I approached this with a ton of doubt. In fact, it was about a year from the time I first heard about IF and the time I tried it.

 

While I can only speak for my own results, I have definitely not lost any muscle or strength. In fact, I have made significant progress in all of my performance measures, even while dropping bodyfat.

 

Like a previous poster mentioned, the increased insulin sensitivity that you develop is beneficial for not only avoiding fat gain, but also building muscle.

 

With that said, I'm not going to claim that IF is necessarily superior to small, frequent meals, at least from a body composition standpoint. A major demonstration of the IF trend has been that meal frequency, at least within a 24 hour context, is irrelevant to body composition. That said, there are many other factors that play into what is optimal for the individual person, not the least of which is personal preference.

 

For me, this was, by far, the easiest change I've made to my diet over the years. It also had the biggest impact. In my experience, combining Leangains-style IF with other dietary strategies such as carb backloading and calorie cycling can be a hugely powerful tool in one's arsenal, given that it's something that you can stick with.

 

My advice is to read up on Leangains on Berkhan's website. He's sort of gone off the grid for some reason, but the following articles should give you a decent base knowledge of what he's talking about:

 

Top Ten Fasting Myths Debunked (Major Update Nov 4th) | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health

 

The Leangains Guide | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health

 

Better Blood Glucose with Lower Meal Frequency | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health

 

Again, I'm not going to claim that IF is the end all be all of dietary patterns. There are plenty of people who have gotten very strong and very ripped utilizing small, frequent meals. That said, I can honestly say that I have yet to notice any negative results from it.

 

But yeah, basically the idea is that after about 14 hours or so (depends on individual variation), a person's glycogen stores start to become depleted. When this happens, the body starts to mobilize stored fat to be used as energy. Once you eat, insulin is released to lower blood sugar level (which are raised as the result of the breakdown of the food), and stored fat mobilization stops.

 

That's a very, very condensed and unscientific version of what is going on, but that's basically the gist of it.

[suladas]

I have been doing roughly 18/6 for the most part, and also times of fasting 24 hours usually dinner to dinner 1 day a week and my results have been great, my weight loss has gone up by like 50% easily.

[Star Gazer]

I have been doing roughly 18/6 for the most part, and also times of fasting 24 hours usually dinner to dinner 1 day a week and my results have been great, my weight loss has gone up by like 50% easily.

 

Do you feel fatigued at all? Are you able to workout just as hard?

[tman666]

Do you feel fatigued at all? Are you able to workout just as hard?

 

I'm not going to speak for suladas, but I find that I'm able to train just as hard, and in some cases, harder in a fasted state than a fed state. Unfortunately, due to my schedule constraints, I generally train in the evenings during my feeding window.

 

That first meal after a hard fasted training session is heavenly, and nap inducing.

[Star Gazer]

Thanks for the info and links, dude!

 

But yeah, basically the idea is that after about 14 hours or so (depends on individual variation), a person's glycogen stores start to become depleted. When this happens, the body starts to mobilize stored fat to be used as energy. Once you eat, insulin is released to lower blood sugar level (which are raised as the result of the breakdown of the food), and stored fat mobilization stops.

 

So, if you're only fasting for 16 hours, then you've only got about 2 hours where you're mobilizing fat?

[tman666]

So, if you're only fasting for 16 hours, then you've only got about 2 hours where you're mobilizing fat?

 

Essentially. Again, individual variation is involved. Your meal patterns can affect this too. For example, if I have a huge feast with plenty of carbs the night before, there's a good chance that I might not be mobilizing stored fat for energy until 16 hours. If I am already fairly carb depleted and then do a fasted training session the next day, chances are that I'll be dipping into fat stores a lot sooner.

 

A lot of people who can swing it, including Martin Berkhan, have been known to increase the fasting period to 18-20 hours and further condense the feeding window. I think this is a fine thing for someone who is mostly sedentary in the remainder of their day. That said, I have noticed that if I train fasted after 18 hours that I definitely gas earlier than I would have at 16 hours fasted. That's where it needs to tie back into what your goals are. If you're just trying to get ripped and you don't care about performance as much, this can be fine, but if you're chasing strength or muscle gains, I've found the that prolonging the fasting window brings suboptimal results for me.

 

The beauty of IF is that you can implement it and tweak it in such a way that suites your individual preferences and goals. There are other forms of IF out there that involve longer fasts, fasts only on 1 or 2 days per week, etc. Another good rundown on IF is in John Berardi's e-book (which I believe can be downloaded for free) in which he explores and self-experiments with the predominant styles of IF out there, including Leangains.

[Star Gazer]

Well, basically what I want to do between now and the end of July is lose as much fat as possible, while maintaining my current non-training workouts. Why July and non-training? July is when I'll start training for my next marathon. I want to lose my extra fat weight by then, so that marathon training is a little easier (even 5 pounds can have a huge impact on speed and endurance). Until then, I want to be able to maintain my current workouts (long runs somewhere between 6 and 13 miles, not a lot of mileage + lifting fairly heavy).

 

I typically lift or run right after work, around 6 p.m. Knowing that, what sort of schedule would you suggest?

[suladas]

Do you feel fatigued at all? Are you able to workout just as hard?

 

I'm not going to speak for suladas, but I find that I'm able to train just as hard, and in some cases, harder in a fasted state than a fed state. Unfortunately, due to my schedule constraints, I generally train in the evenings during my feeding window.

 

That first meal after a hard fasted training session is heavenly, and nap inducing.

 

Nope no difference at all. But the first time going 24 hours without food did take some mind over matter, now it's very easy though.

 

For example last night I ate at 730, I went to the gym at 1pm this afternoon, I didn't eat until 530pm tonight. I honestly could have went even longer. And wed-thurs I did a 24 hour fast, so thursday I was only consuming about 1200 calories.

Edited March 31, 2013 by suladas

[tman666]

As far as scheduling, I would start by prolonging your fast as long as possible throughout the day up to 16 hours from your last meal the night before, break your fast with a modestly sized protein/fats/greens based meal, and then train at 6 as planned. (eggs+lean meats is awesome for this, IMO)

 

Post training, I'd focus on getting in plenty of protein and meeting your carb allotment for the day (whatever that may be, I have no idea since I've never done a marathon). Your post training meal is typically your largest meal of the day.

 

Keep in mind that you will likely still need to decrease your overall caloric intake over time in order to lose fat. IF is good for helping facilitate that, but it doesn't replace basic principles.

 

Good luck to you! I hope this helps you as much as it has helped me.

[Star Gazer]

I won't be carb loading for marathon training until into September, so for now I can just focus on a "standard" IF program.

 

It sounds like you're saying if I want to do 16/8, I need to schedule the 8 such that I have time to have a recovery meal post-workout...? I can do that.

[EasyHeart]

I'll chime in from a little different perspective.

 

As I mentioned in the other thread, I've been doing this for several years, though I didn't know it had a name until recently. I did it upon the advice of my GI doctor. He says that the 6-meals-a-day notion is one of the most disastrous things you can do for your digestive system because it isn't designed to work all day long. The human digestive system is designed to eat once a day and then go to sleep. I usually only eat between 2-6:00 pm. My first meal is usually very small, often only some protein powder and coconut oil or a small serving of meat and vegetables (300-400 cals) My only big meal is at dinner.

 

I'll defer to tman as to the fitness/weight benefits, but it's a good lifestyle to adopt for your general health. I feel really alert and awake all day long and usually only get tired after dinner -- which is when you're supposed to get tired!!! On my workout days, I usually exercise before my 2:00 pm meal and if I can't get away then, I do it before my end of the day meal. This type of diet is also convenient because you don't have to make breakfast or search for lunch. And it makes dinner kind of exciting because you only have that one big meal, so you can unleash all your culinary genius and can eat pretty much anything you want.

 

Obviously, food quality is more important than timing. If you're eating nothing but Twinkies, pasta and Big Macs, it doesn't matter what time you eat them.

[amazingdrummer]

Anybody ever done water fasting (drink water only for about 7-10days to heal body and lose weight) and succeeded?

[EasyHeart]

For those of you who are interested in fasting, you might want to look for Upton Sinclair's The Fasting Cure. Apparently, fasting for health was a popular trend 100 years ago, and people would fast for weeks and months at a time. If nothing else, I found it fascinating from an historical perspective.

 

The book is in the public domain, so you can find copies for free all over the Internet.

 

(Sinclair is most famous for writing The Jungle and was one of the country's most popular writers in 1900-30 or so. He almost became governor of California in the 30s)

[Cali408]

I do it once a week, maybe twice. I do the 22-24 hour thing. On other days, I go 16 which is basically skippng breakfast. Currently on hour 22.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I do this and it's pretty effective. 16/8 with 1600 calories consumed within 8 hour window.

 

I am now on hour 16 and am feeling strong. I do bursts of this when I want to drop some weight. I am not sure how much muscle mass I am losing if any :/

[FitChick]

I do this and it's pretty effective. 16/8 with 1600 calories consumed within 8 hour window.

I lose weight on 1600 calories, regardless of the time I eat.

[Lauriebell82]

So if I was on a morning schedule how would this work? I work early morning hours, so I get up at 5:00 am (eat breakfast) and go to bed at like 9:00 pm.

[thefooloftheyear]

Ive heard of it but never tried it. I do the 6-8 meals a day and always maintain a 12% or so BF level. If I want to drop some lbs. I just tighten it up and continue the every few hours meal routine. Worked for me for years. I can get to around 8-10% pretty easily. I wouldnt go any lower than that, unless I had plans on competing.

 

I get bad headaches if I dont eat anything for a period of more than 5 hours or so...Have any of you guys experienced this?

 

TFOY

[tman666]

Ive heard of it but never tried it. I do the 6-8 meals a day and always maintain a 12% or so BF level. If I want to drop some lbs. I just tighten it up and continue the every few hours meal routine. Worked for me for years. I can get to around 8-10% pretty easily. I wouldnt go any lower than that, unless I had plans on competing.

 

I get bad headaches if I dont eat anything for a period of more than 5 hours or so...Have any of you guys experienced this?

 

TFOY

 

I've been IF'ing for over 2 years, and I've never gotten bad headaches from fasting. If anything, I feel better during the fasting period.

 

All other things beings equal, one of the biggest draws of IF for me is just that I feel so damn good doing it, haha.

 

Obviously, you've been able to get small, frequent meals to work for you, as people have done for years now. It is nice that there are alternatives though which allow for variation in individual preference (which can have a large effect on adherence and overall results).

[Star Gazer]

I lose weight on 1600 calories, regardless of the time I eat.

 

Same here. So, I'm confused.

[EasyHeart]

Pretty much anyone is going to lose weight on 1600 calories/day.

 

I don't think of IF as a weight loss technique. You do it to feel better and have more energy.