Looking for /Hope

[lovelove76]

I am not sure if this is the right thread to use, at is involves a separated man rather than a married man, and I'm not sure the issue falls so much with his "separated" status or not...but I think people on this thread might have some insight either way. I am hopeful they do.

 

Five years ago, this man, P, was married. He happened to meet me at an event -- we were very briefly introduced and I still to this day can't remember it -- and he says in that moment his life changed. He had been married at that point for about ten years and he says when he met me, his heart stopped and in that moment he knew he had to leave his marriage. It took him two years to do so, and in those two years I did not know him. So, he separated from his wife and showed up at my office one day on work-related pretences and asked me out to lunch. I thought it was work-related so I went. As the lunch unfolded, I realised he was not there to talk about work...he told me the story of meeting me two years prior and how that moment had changed his life, and could we have dinner sometime. At that point in my life I had NO experience of married/separated men. I took him at his word that he was separated and we went to dinner. I was cautious though, and as one dinner turned into about five, I realised he was just to "new" out of his marriage and so I ended things. We never slept together. I heard he went back to his marriage at that point. Another two years went by and we were not in touch at all. Not even through friends, nothing. I erased it all out of my mind.

 

Fast forward to last fall. Two more years had gone by and I was at a particularly bad spot in my life. Newly 36, still single, getting very stressed about my life situation. I had no prospects and thought all was lost. Until one day I got an email from him. He had seen me at a store in our huge city, and felt that the time was right to contact me. He had been living on his own for six months, entirely single (no dating, no nothing) and was ready, he said, for a relationship. I let him take me to dinner to hear him out. I did what I thought was due diligence -- asked him 200 questions about his marital/emotional status, told him I didn't want to be messed with this time, etc. All his answers were good and again, I took him at his word. I asked for things to go slow, and he agreed.

 

So, we started a real relationship. It started slow, with a dinner a week or so -- with nothing physical, for I was intent on keeping things slow. It felt right though, he was checking ALL the boxes and doing everything right.

 

Throughout the fall, we had some major challenges. His schedule was extremely stressed because of his work and he was travelling a lot. When he *was* in the city we live in, he needed to make up the time he had missed spending wiht his two kids. So we weren't seeing one another very much. When he was away, he wasnt really keeping in touch with me, which I found stressful. Just before I had to go on Christmas vacation, and he on one with his with his kids, I called him to say I needed more communication -- I was only hearing from him once a week or so, and I was concerned it wasn't healthy if we were serious about being in a healthy relationship together -- our Christmas vacations meant we wouldn't be seeing one another for almost a month. He agreed and from mid-December, things improved. I heard from him more and we saw each other a bit more, although not all *that* much. He kept saying he was happy with how we were together though, and was very affectionate and caring when we were together.

 

During this time somewhere, I realised that he was still spending a huge amount of time with his ex-wife. I had thought that he spent time wiht his kids at his new place, but really he was seeing them at her house (their old house, together) and on weekends when I thought he was spending an afternoon with his kids at his place, he was often actually with her, the four of them as a unit. I didn't really know what to make of this kind of parenting, but as I don't have kids, it's not really my business. So I just tried to deal with it and be supportive of it all.

 

We had some of our "best" time spent together in February -- I met his friends, we were talking of me meeting his kids, and meeting his other family. This was the relationship I had always longed for. He seemed REALLY happy, too.

 

Then out of the blue we went for breakfast in late February and he told me he had decided to go to his cabin for one week with his ex-wife and the kids. The reasoning was that they both wanted to spend as much time with the kids as possible, and this was the way to do it, since the kids wanted to go to the cabin for their March holiday. I took a deep breath, but who am I to stop them, and of course I want his kids to have what they need in their lives -- which is often both of their parents (the kids are 10 and 7). He assured me he had told his ex-wife he was seriously dating someone and she was fine, because they are both "fine" the marriage is over.

 

About two weeks before he was supposed to go, he got REALLY distant again. We had gone out for a date and it was amazing and then the next day I didn't hear from him. Or the next, or the next...until a week had gone by. I should have reached out to him during that week, but I was sensing he needed "space" so I was trying to give it to him, but at the end of the week I brokedown and called him, crying -- I admit -- to try to find out what was going on. He said the relationship was "too much pressure" and he needed a break. I agreed and I kept my distance for three weeks -- one of those weeks was the week he was away at his cabin.

 

This past week, I reached out again -- got his voicemail and left him a message. He texted back to say he was glad I reached out and he would call me, which he did, yesterday. I thought maybe he would say he was going back to his wife, or that he still needed space with me, but what he said was that he wanted to date other people. This is why I am totally ruined -- we were doing so WELL, and I am just really confused. He says he is not "in love" with me, and I told him I don't think he could be "in love" with anyone, given how little time he has spent on the relationship to this point, and given how emeshed he still is with his ex-wife. But I also pointed out that given the circumstances, we are/were doing great, all things considered.

 

I am so confused because we have everything it takes to make a great pairing, and he had spent years of his life working his way toward me. It felt so fated and I couldn't have imagined being with someone who -- despite the problems we were facing given his circumstances -- was so "perfect" for me. I'm absolutely heartbroken and my friends are all saying that I "asked" for this because he was fresh out of a marriage and of course he will want to play the field, etc. They say that I should have told him to come back to me in a year, after he had had a year to process his new life. But at the time, I really believed him. I believed he wanted ME and didn't want to play the field, etc. Now, because of how badly things went while we were together, I feel like I have no hope of him ever changing his mind.

 

I don't know whether I should keep trying to get him back or what. I really wanted a life with him, I still do. I've never ever been so in love and so hopeful for a future with someone.

 

Does anyone have stories of a man saying that "you are not the one" and then eventually realising maybe they were wrong? We were so good together, given everything, I just don't understand. I am having so much trouble coping with this situation.

Edited March 31, 2013 by lovelove76
More informatino

[lovelove76]

He's not legally divorced yet, but he is separated. He has his own apartment -- it's his, I was there many times. We have dozens of friends in common -- everyone knows his marriage ended and he told all his friends about me, too. We weren't a secret and were very public (holding hands, kissing, etc). Definitely not "cheating" on his wife. She didn't know my name, but she knew he was with someone. I have no doubt of that. Zero.

[lovelove76]

We live in Canada -- I don't think we have what is called "legal" separation. He is separated and eventually they will make the divorce final -- for now, she bought him out of their house, their finances are separate, etc. I definitely "worried" he would go back to her when I found out they were taking that vacation together, but now that he's back from it and again told me he has no intention of being with her again, I believe him. It's more the situation with me I am so upset about. I feel like he decided he could never love me based on so little information about me because we weren't spending enough time together from the get-go, and during the relationship he was so stressed by work, and seeing his ex and the kids so much (I am thrilled he was spending so much time with the kids, but I am not sure if spending so much time with his ex was giving him space emotionally to process the end of the marriage and to get his head around being with a new woman) -- that we never really had a chance from the beginning. And I HATE that because we really are great together and I am so confused by how he could turn on a dime and say that he is so sure I am not his "dream woman" anymore, when I was for SO long. I don't think I did or said anything awful during the course of our Relationship, except to bring up the fact that unless we kept in better touch, we weren't really having one -- I did that twice before we broke up/he dumped me.

 

It is all probably just a case of him not being "ready" but now he says he is ready to date more people, etc. I find it all so hard. I feel like I helped him get on his feet again, stroked his ego by being sweet to him, etc. and now another woman will benefit from that.

 

It's hard. I feel like he has a complicated situation insofar as any woman he is with will have to be accepting of how close he is to his ex-wife (all the shared parenting they do) and as well, will have to be ready to become a step-mom to two young boys (which I think are a blessing but not everyone does). Is the world really full of women who are okay with that? Will he be able to find a woman at the turn of a dime? I guess maybe he will. He's a great catch in my country -- popular, well connected, nice looking and has a good heart. But I really have felt like our bond was special, especially given our history. And now he's just thrown me out. I don't get it. I can't sleep or eat, I'm exhausted...I just want him to "see the light" and be with me, or if he needs some time to sort out, to take it, but eventually, this is the man I want to be with the rest of my life. And the years of my life are going by...it needs to change.

[lovelove76]

The first time he was only partially separated. He was living with a friend, and after I ended things, he went back. The whole time, that first time around, he was really consumed with guilt about his kids, and so part of why I ended it was the hope that he would go home. I thought it was the right thing to do.

 

The reason I felt like I wasn't doomed to be the rebound, this time, was because of our history, because of how much he had invested in me already -- even if just in his mind. He really is a sincere person, not an assclown....I feel like he was very emotionally unavailable during the time we were together. But that is the thing -- now he says he is ready, after spending three weeks apart from me -- to really date others with his "heart in it" (his words). So I was the rebound...but I'm a person who is (I say this modestly) marriage material. Im a good woman, I was ready to join his life in a real way. And now someone else will get to do that, because I "taught" him how to date again. I regret making such a foolish mistake, dating him before he was really ready, because now I have lost out.

 

Do men over come around to the fact that maybe they made a mistake, or judged things to rashly? He seems to think I am not "the one" but he didn't give us a fair chance at all. He's not seeing the fact that he thrust me into such hard circumstances...I didn't stand a chance against all the ex-wife stuff, and all his confusion about his own life.

 

But now he's ready and he threw me away. It's so hard. I've never wanted to have a life with someone like I do with him. Do they ever comeback??

[lovelove76]

Thanks, I suppose that is true. I'm mostly just looking for hope that he might change his mind. We had such a challenging relationship while it was happening and I don't think he understands that under those circumstances, I couldn't be a "dream woman" like he is looking for, no one could be. His attention was on his ex and his kids, not me or an "us". But in my heart, in my gut, I feel like he and I are "meant to be" and I am so hopeful eventually he will come around. I can't imagine life without him, and this is crushing me.

[lovelove76]

Hi,

 

I am still having such a hard time with this situation. Perhaps I should be posting in another area on the board?

 

P called me last night to re-iterate how he will never love me and how I should move on. I realise I need to take him at his word and try to do it.

 

However, I am so devestated. I am going around and around in my mind about all the things I did "wrong". I mean, this is a man who had loved me from afar for four or five years, then got close-ish to me two years ago, and then this year, we finally had our shot.

 

And I feel like I am the one who made mistakes and messed it up, and I can't stop being anxious about that, I can't stop feeling terrible.

 

I think a lot of our problems stemmed from the first night we were intimate. I feel like I wasn't congnizant -- for some reason -- about the fact that he had not been with anyone but his wife for 15 years, and probably hadn't had sex in months or years. It is like that fact escaped my mind and so when we got to the bedroom and he couldn't "perform", I thought I was doing something wrong. Instead of being lighthearted or making jokes, I tried to have a somewhat "serious" conversation with him, asking him "is it me? Can I do anything here? What's wrong?" He ended up telling me I was making him self conscious and he went home.

 

After that, it felt a bit like our good energy to that point had been ruined. I pressed on, and sex became a lot better, but it still felt like there was that bad energy in the room -- like a pressure on him to "perform". He was very quiet/distant during sex and a few times I tried to get him to "open up" a little and he would shut me down. It's not like I am a porn star or anything -- I just wanted to be sure he was enjoying himself and sometimes I couldn't tell because he was so quiet -- like very focused on his "end goal" (orgasm).

 

I am a really easy-going person when it comes to sex, but I couldn't seem to make that part of us more comfortable for him..and like I said, it just hung in the air and coloured all other parts of our interaction.

 

Did I really make mistakes? What could I have done differently? I am so heartbroken he has broken up with me and sees me as not a good partner in life - -sexually or otherwise, and I think so much of it stems from that first or second sexual encounter, where it did not all go smoothly like in the movies. It was awkward and kind of stressful....but also got better over time. Still, it is like the first or second time set the tone.

 

I am so heartbroken over this man. Even though he has told me 100000000% we will never be together, there is a part in my soul that won't believe it, I feel so much like he was/is my soulmate.

 

Insights??

[lovelove76]

You are probably right in what you are saying. Although it did feel like things got derailed because of his expectations of us in the bedroom....I think he thought I was his soulmate (and I feel like I am!) but because everything didn't go PERFECTLY, he decided that it meant I am not for him. Like it was some kind of sign from the universe. I'd never had quite that much awkwardness in the bedroom and didn't expect to have it with him, so I was frazzled by it and didn't handle it very well. I regret it so deeply.

 

It's hard not to beat myself up for every single thing that happened. He would not call for days at a time, and by the time he finally did, I'd be frustrated and upset and tell him he needed to call me more...like I could have died in those days he was not in touch and he wouldn't have known. But he wanted me to be the "cool girl" and sometimes I just couldn't be. I was having my own issues in life he was unaware of (some family stuff was going on) and I couldn't share it with him because I wanted him to think I have my life together (I only have it partially together, I have had a rough few years).

 

It's all so hard, getting in proper sync with someone, and I think he expected it to be so perfect and doesn't understand, because he hasn't dated in so long, that it takes a bit of work and effort to get things rolling smoothly. Or am I the one that is wrong? Do most people in good relationships have everything go smooth, always?

 

I feel so confused.

[ThatJustHappened]

What's confusing? He is both telling you and showing you that he doesn't love you and that he will never be with you. I don't understand what part of that isn't clear to you.

[lovelove76]

I think I am just still in shock about it. For years he told me I was the one he wanted to be with. On our first date this past year, he took my hands across a dinner table and told me he wanted us to have a baby....

 

But then things had some hiccups and it made him decide I am not the one, and I guess I am still just so upset about that, because I feel like hiccups happen in any early stage relationship.

 

So that is my question -- am I crazy for thinking hiccups happen and you have to get past them, or are most relationships really smooth from the beginning, and that is why they last?

 

I just feel completely out to lunch on how things work in relationships.

[ThatJustHappened]

If he had ever really been sure about you, a few little things wouldn't have derailed him.

[Minnie09]

General rule of thumb based on my experience: if they come on that strong in the beginning, especially with words (when I saw you I knew I had to leave my wife......huh......really? - how credible is THAT??) nothing good usually comes out of it. I do NOT know why. But it usually works that way (or rather: it doesn't work with them). It takes a special type of person / man to chase you for years (or make you believe he did), say things that sweep you off your feet and do a lot of convincing/chasing/hunting while they're still in an R / M (or half in/half out) and THEN, when things go more smoothly between you and him, or could go more smoothly due to xyz (divorce final, other issues resolved, you more willing and no longer reluctant, etc.).......they lose interest - don't ask me why - but it happens a lot - its not you.

 

You could've had the perfect first sex encounter in your nicely decorated bedroom smelling like lavender....perfect hard-on, great simultaneous orgasm.....trust me....he would still be gone, trying to convince you you're not the one while you're trying to convince him you ARE the one right now.....perfect timing - perfect everything......he will not want you as long as you want him

 

I don't even think that it's got anything to do with his W. she might actually be relieved that her M is over, since she's got all the experience with that kind of a flaky person. They might get along now better as coparents / friends. It has to do with him him him and I don't know what it is but I've heard the same story a million times. Yes, HE convinced YOU, tried to win YOUR heart, not the other way around......but he's the one who dumps you. Makes no sense does it? Lady Gray was spot in when she says it's about making you love him (manipulation), but why they act like that......no idea. I would be curious myself what kind of a personality (disorder) that is. Oh and also, dear OP: I do not believe this is over. He will be playing with you some more. It's up to you to figure out how to handle this in the future.

[Scarlett5]

Please read Women Who Love Too Much - I think you'll really relate to it. You really do need to stop obsessing and being so hard on yourself, and actually focus on yourself in a positive way instead of questioning your actions and how they may have affected his choices. Which is highly unlikely, by the way.

 

When I say focus on yourself positively, I mean take a long hard look at your relationship history, your family situation growing up, and why you're allowing yourself to be treated so badly by this man and STILL blaming yourself for his lack of decency. You should be kicking him to the kerb and telling him you can do SO much better. Not to say that would be easy, but I'd say a hell of a lot easier than allowing this flakey guy to remain in your life...

[lovelove76]

Thank you both for responding. I need to hear more stories/words like both of yours I guess.

 

The strange thing is I have always felt very educated when it comes to emotionally unavailable and/or manipulative men. I've kicked many to the curb in my past. With him, it just felt very different. He's in my social circle, loved and admired by everyone, and everyone told me to "go for it" when it came to him -- they wanted to see us together. I felt sure that he was being truthful and would put the effort in. But you're right..it's like as soon as he knew he "had" me, he ran. It's also a bit like as soon as the closeness between us could no longer be denied, he ran.

 

He was so forthright on the phone last night about how there will NEVER be a chance for us. It just seems weird and confusing. One day he is loving me and the next day, gone and sort-of hostile. Telling me he was never attracted to me and never could be. If that is the truth, what were all the last few years about?

 

Thank you for all your support. I'm just very sad. On paper at least, we had everything going for us, and he had a life I just very much wanted/want to be a part of.

[lovelove76]

No Lady Grey, I need to hear things like what you are saying, so don't apologize.

 

I can't say it is *quite* as black/white as you are saying, but it is somewhere in the middle of that, definitely. It could just be that he is very confused and in transition regarding the end of his marriage -- it might not be that he has a personality disorder of some sort, I am not sure.

 

The only major signs of a potential personality disorder I noticed (and I was looking for them and I always look for them) was that he could sometimes be a *little* self involved, although I chalked that up to the fact that he is still going through turmoil about his family-change. We can all be ensconced in our problems. I also noticed he was very distant, sexually -- like hard to bond with..but again I figured that is because I messed up somehow on our first time. Sex seemed to him to be too intimate, like he had walls up with me. It sometimes just felt like he wasn't "there"...though again, maybe that is b/c he was with someone who was new and it was all weird for him. A male friend said that any healthy man is always going to be engaged during sex because "it is sex!"....and told me that this man's lack of engagement seemed a little "off."

 

I have no idea. He was married to an amazing, smart, confident woman for 15 years. She is 7 years older than him. I don't know if she would have put up with a PD for that long...he has awesome friends, some of the best people in my country (inspiring artists, leading thinkers, etc). I don't know if they would put up with that in their ranks.

 

He went to boarding school though from a VERY young age -- maybe he just fears closeness and intimacy? I read once that kids that went to boarding school often become hyper-self-sufficient emotionally (b/c they had to be out of necessity without parents to meet their emotional needs) and that emotional things "scare" them.

 

I should probably stop anylysing to death. It is just so weird, his complete about-face. Last night he was so sure he can't ever love me --but the last time we saw one another, we were both happy -- a happy that he couldn't have faked. He was glowing.

[Mrs.Dee]

Due diligence gotta love that one..

 

Ok so here is what I think has happened....

I am not 100% sure he actually meant it literally that he had left his marriage for you, only insane people would leave their marriage for someone they just had seen once and not even spoken to.

BUT you might have made him aware of feelings, not compatible with him seeing his marriage as healthy and the right thing to be in.

He probably got fascinated with you .

 

But , in my expriences with relationships they either heat up or they die slowly as you spend time togheter, and what determines where they go is who the two of you are and if you really fit together.

So I would think that he probably was very much in love with you , but that his feelings changed somehow, not because of something you did wrong or anything, some people just aren't meant to be together.....

even thought they both are some smashing people individually.

 

As for him spending so much times with his kids and family, I would think it was positive if a man was so concerned about his kids also after he got divorced, that he was trying his best to cooperate the best with the mother.

[jnel921]

Sounds like he loves his family. He told you what he thought you needed to hear to keep the door open to him and ridiculously align your life with his.

 

He said he is not in love with you, so why push it and say you still want to have some kind of life or relationship with him,

 

You can't force him to be with you. He obviously wants his family as he spends time with them and is obviously sleeping with his wife when he goes away with them.

 

What is sad is how you spent the past few years entertaining this BS.

 

Find a guy who is truly single. Ready to commit and introduce you into his world.

 

You have some issues that you may want to seek IC for. This is not going to work.

 

As a BS I can tell you my H said whatever he could to be able to see the OW. The way he explained it to me was that he was talking sh**.

 

When you saw him..you said it was amazing. He I am sure thinks you are an amazing piece of a$$. As long as you are on standby he will continue to drive by and get some.

 

Wake up.