On the rollercoaster again

[constantconfustion]

I'm new here and really need some thoughts on what is going on. I've been lurking and cannot find anything about what I am looking for I have been in a relationship with a MM for 4 years and I was also married when it began. I ended my relationship shortly after it began for many reasons. The A was suspected, but not confirmed by my ex. His spouse also has suspected, but has never confirmed it despite several people informing that we were spending time together and most of our friends knowing about our relationship. She does know we are friends. After several rocky years, MC, constant talk of divorce, they began to get along, although our relationship did not stop. Then he discovered that during the months he had thought they were getting along, she had been having an EA and possibly a PA with another man. She did not disclose this, rather she was caught. After some serious talks, they decided to attempt to reconcile. Then she shut down for another month and a half. A few weeks ago, she suddenly did a complete 180 and is now open, honest, communicative and making every effort with him. Once again, we have not stopped our A, but we have limited the physical side so that he can gain more perspective on staying or going. At the moment, he will not leave. They have a young child and he wants to determine if this change is real and permanent. I have watched this happen before and every single time before, she soon lapsed into her old ways and he would get frustrated and ready to leave. I am well aware that each of these times, I have made it better for him and ironically made it easier for him to stay. My questions are: How can she have undergone a complete 180 almost overnight in her behavior? He feels that it is because they are communicating now and she shocked herself by the EA. I feel it is damage control. Will this behavior revert again? I feel that any change is probably temporary as it is not her normal behavior and also she knows he is still seeing me, although he continues to maintain that we are just friends. Is this hyperbonding? I am so confused as he is keeping the relationship with me going, but seems incapable of leaving there. I know the good advice is just to leave and let him figure it out on his own, but I am not ready to make that decision. I would just like an unbiased opinion on the sustainability of this marriage and behavior.

[Mycatsnuggles]

IMO he's not leaving and neither is his wife. She is being nice to keep him in the relationship. they both have made accommodations to be "happy" as the relationship is.

 

The better question is are you happy as the relationship stands?

[Cali408]

They're perfect for one another. He's never leaving. GUYS DON'T LEAVE THEIR WIVES!!! They hate change, hate seeing the kids on weekends, hate paying child support.

 

Of course she had a revenge affair. Then she saw the light and is trying to give the marriage another try. You should have enough respect and decency to stay out of their stuff.

 

I'm not criticizing you, I'm just telling you what you should do. It's not fair to you to have to play wait and see, it's not fair to put pressure on him and it's not fair to her if she is making an honest effort. Their marital problems are at least 1/2 his fault. don't believe everything you hear. I'm sure he's not a treat.

 

Move on, the sooner the better. Stop doing the things that you know are wrong. You know the right answer, you said it. Have the courage to do it.

[Quiet Storm]

His marriage will last as long as they want it to.

 

Some couples do a "dysfunctional dance" for their entire marriage.

 

They have their own dynamic, their own history of ups and downs. This could be the last straw, but it's more likely just another chapter in the story of their life together.

 

He has you to fill in the gaps of his marriage, and he doesn't have to suffer the feelings of his unmet needs. Now that she is more attentive, he wants to limit the physical part of your relationship. That should show you right there that this affair is not about his connection to you or his love for you as a person. It's about him and HIS NEEDS. And you are just going along with it, hoping his wife reverts back to her old ways so that you can have more attention.

 

His wife was having an emotional affair. To many men in an unhappy marriage, this would be his out. A reason to leave where he won't have to look like the bad guy or take the blame. But he chooses to work on the marriage, and even limit his physical contact with you.

 

You deserve better, and should really try to understand why you are willing to accept this. Does he meet your needs? Is this enough for you?

[Minnie09]

Their M seems to be a never-ending flip-flopping on both sides. He's now motivated because she got to have her cake and eat it, too, while he had thought he's the only one in the M who could enjoy a little bit of a double life. He was wrong. That angered him. He got jealous and wants to try to make it work. SHE has to change for the better? Why her? Is that his little entitlement attitude? While he's still lying to his W after enjoying a long-term A with you and continuing to lie, he's watching her behavior closely in order to determine whether her attitude has changed "enough" for HIM to give HER another shot???? SE-RI-OUS-LY, dude? And as long as he can't make that decision (because it's a big one, you know.....you really wanna be 110% sure before you "commit" to your own M after YOU cheated....and still do.....) you're waiting around as his "friend"......aweeee you're so adorable.

 

But to make you feel better: if this is not a complete joke, rest assured that his W's 180 for the better will not last. People don't change. And if they really want to give it a try because they want to re-commit, trust me, Hun, it takes two! If he's waiting around to see if she's lovey dovey unicorn-y enough for him to stay with her while seeing you on the side and doing nothing, she will definitely get very frustrated over that and fall back into her less loving, accommodating behavior which will give him more of an excuse to contact you for more of the same whatever it is (attention I am guessing......). But I'll doubt it that he'll ever pull the plug. It's going to be a cycle until SHE kicks HIM to the curb, and then you can have the prize. I'm guessing a 3 year wait......

[constantconfustion]

It is not that we are not physical now or just friends and trust me I get the point of what am I getting out of this. The truth is that we have a very long history of over 20 years and we have never had a relationship where someone didn't suspect us of having something going (although previously we never did), and the issues between them are long-standing (affection, intimacy, connection). They do however get along well as a family without those things. I am trying to give him the space he needs to figure this out and he has told her for years he needs these things to no avail. So yes, he did seek it out somewhere else. I also was filling the gaps in my marriage. He did threaten to leave when her A came to light, but honestly, he didn't have any problem with her cheating, just the lying to him (and yes, I get the irony there too.) However, she opened up and became someone she hadn't been in years to convince him to R. I don't fault either of them in making that decision and I have struggled with why he is holding on to me despite that. I have told him I don't want to be the back-up and if he is done to be straight with me. He swears that is not what it is. What I am getting out of this though, is my best friend and I am his, my lover, someone I cherish. I know it sounds silly, but we do tell each other everything, we do have that affection and love, we do have complete openess and honesty, even sometimes when it is hard to hear. He has never made promises he hasn't kept. He has never lied to me about how he is feeling about any of this. The problem is that he rollercoasters and takes me on the ride with him. I know I am in limbo and I know I need off. He has told me that he will never have NC with me and that if the only way that will happen is if I choose it. He also has said that if his M reverts to the way it was before that it is completely done. This time seems different though for him. He feels she may have really changed and realized the problem wasn't all him. I know he believes what he is saying and I know that she wants that change although she is not sure she can maintain it either. I don't see how she can when he tells her he is seeing me (as friends.) I don't want to be the band-aid anymore and I am not asking whether to stay or go. I need to make that decision on my own. I just really wonder if it is possible that this change is real. By looking at everything, it helps me make those decisions.

[constantconfustion]

And thank you so much for your input. I know he loves me very much, but he still loves her too. I think I understand because I know his past and I know that I might still be M too if the ex had been a better man. It would have made it harder to leave.

[Cali408]

No one changes overnight. But you should have no contact with him until he leaves his wife.

[ComingInHot]

I don't get it.

This guy cheats. You're cool with it. He has had Ample opportunity to leave yet hasn't.

You believe after twenty? years that NOW he is basing his M and you on If his WIFE is going to change?! When he's been the one cheating (because you are allowing) all along?

 

I just don't get it.

[georgia girl]

I really don't mean to be harsh, but let me restate the facts that you've shared:

 

1) She had an affair and HE decided to take her back.

2) He has had the opportunity for several years to pick you first and he still hasn't, even when you became single.

3) He has stated that if she has changed, he will stay.

 

In your own words, I see where he is clearly choosing her. He's happy - probably thrilled - to have you, too. But in the end, it's her.

 

It may be extremely hard to get over him, but seriously, you need to put you first and cut him loose. He hasn't chosen you. Given the length of time this has gone on and the easy out he had with her affair, he's not leaving. Ever. And genuinely, he had the chance to leave when her behavior was not good, so if it truly was dependent on her good behavior, wouldn't he already be gone?

 

I am sure he genuinely cares for you. But find someone who will CHOOSE you, not just care for you.

 

Gosh, that really sounds harsh. I am very sorry.

[constantconfustion]

He did chose me back then, but because of other issues and some miscommunications we never pursued a relationship despite being attracted to each other. Even longer story there. And no...he does not expect her to be the only one making changes. He is aware that she frequently makes sudden changes and then reverts back to being distant and defensive though. During the time we have been together, I was married for half. It was easier for me to chose to leave though as my ex was an angry man (not violent). I am not ok with where we are, but I do understand the choices he makes because I know his childhood issues. I was there for them. I don't know if he will ever choose to leave and I am letting him figure it out. I'm ok with all of these decisions right now because I knew what I was getting into when I chose this. Did I think I would be here? Not a chance. Five years ago I would have laughed at you for the thought. Regardless, I need to think over everything and process it.

[constantconfustion]

No. We have only been together for 4. She has always been that way.

[whichwayisup]

Then he discovered that during the months he had thought they were getting along, she had been having an EA and possibly a PA with another man. She did not disclose this, rather she was caught. After some serious talks, they decided to attempt to reconcile. Then she shut down for another month and a half. A few weeks ago, she suddenly did a complete 180 and is now open, honest, communicative and making every effort with him. Once again, we have not stopped our A,

 

Your MM is a total SCUM BAG! He has an A with you for FOUR years, she suspects, he DENIES and lies. She has an EA (maybe a PA too) and gets caught yet he DOES NOT CONFESS about his own affair? Do you see how bloody selfish and self serving he is? I'm sure he probably has made her feel like total crap for cheating on him, making her feel bad and guilty, yet he turns around and still cheats on her.

 

Which leads me to this. He isn't in love with you and he is NOT looking to divorce. Her A is good enough reason to make him leave, that could have been the big reason for him to leave and divorce her, then he'd be all yours. But no, he has chosen to stay married .. And keep you on the side. See how f'ed up this all is?? Think about that.

 

Seems it's OK for him to cheat, do as he pleases, yet he can't stand the thought of his wife doing the same thing that HE has been doing right under her nose for four years.

 

Sorry but you need to really think about what it is you like about this man. He has some serious issues.

[veryhappy]

Wake up please. You are the backup plan.

 

You are cought trying to understand what he's doing, what and why she's doing. What are you doing for yourself? Fortunately you realize you being in contact with him makes you a bandaid for him to keep things as they are.

 

Relationships are hard to end even when they are miserable, so if you are not ready to endthings with him, make yourself ready. He doesn't seem to be moving towards a divorce. i bet that if you asked him, he doesn't really want you, he wants what he has with you with her. Isn't that insulting to you? Why would you put yourself through more pain? If it's indeed their last cycle, he'll come to you divorced, won't he?

 

At some point you need to choose yourself, and opt out of being an expert on their faulty dynamic.

Edited April 4, 2013 by cutedragon

[ForeverHopeful1]

I sincerely hope you find the strength to leave. Run, don't walk. You're Miss Back Up Plan. I don't know how you don't see that. Whether his relationship was good or bad, he stayed with his wife AKA the woman he loves. He doesn't love you and if he did, he would free you from this relationship and let you be. He is a scum bag and the sooner you realize it the better. Even if he did go through with D, he's not a man you need around. I promise you that.

 

If he will do it with you, he will do it to you. You're not special. You're just the only one who won't tell his wife what a douche bag he really is. He isn't leaving her for you, in good times or bad. Please wake up, Hun. She screwed around with someone else and he didn't leave. Not because it didn't hurt but because HE knows exactly what he's doing and he has no grounds to leave his wife when he himself is a cheater. He loves her. Not you. Move on while you still have SOME dignity.

[Turtles]

I'm new here and really need some thoughts on what is going on. I've been lurking and cannot find anything about what I am looking for I have been in a relationship with a MM for 4 years and I was also married when it began. I ended my relationship shortly after it began for many reasons. The A was suspected, but not confirmed by my ex. His spouse also has suspected, but has never confirmed it despite several people informing that we were spending time together and most of our friends knowing about our relationship. She does know we are friends. After several rocky years, MC, constant talk of divorce, they began to get along, although our relationship did not stop. Then he discovered that during the months he had thought they were getting along, she had been having an EA and possibly a PA with another man. She did not disclose this, rather she was caught. After some serious talks, they decided to attempt to reconcile. Then she shut down for another month and a half. A few weeks ago, she suddenly did a complete 180 and is now open, honest, communicative and making every effort with him. Once again, we have not stopped our A, but we have limited the physical side so that he can gain more perspective on staying or going. At the moment, he will not leave. They have a young child and he wants to determine if this change is real and permanent. I have watched this happen before and every single time before, she soon lapsed into her old ways and he would get frustrated and ready to leave. I am well aware that each of these times, I have made it better for him and ironically made it easier for him to stay. My questions are: How can she have undergone a complete 180 almost overnight in her behavior? He feels that it is because they are communicating now and she shocked herself by the EA. I feel it is damage control. Will this behavior revert again? I feel that any change is probably temporary as it is not her normal behavior and also she knows he is still seeing me, although he continues to maintain that we are just friends. Is this hyperbonding? I am so confused as he is keeping the relationship with me going, but seems incapable of leaving there. I know the good advice is just to leave and let him figure it out on his own, but I am not ready to make that decision. I would just like an unbiased opinion on the sustainability of this marriage and behavior.

 

What happens is while she makes an effort to change, he is still not fully committed to the relationship because he has you as the backup plan and emotional crutch. Eventually she catches on to it and gives up trying. Or, she pulls back a bit, because nobody can be at 100% all the time, and as soon as that happens he starts leaning on you again and it's a downward spiral from there. I can tell you that with quasi certainty because I have been there, it didn't take me no 4 years to make up my mind, though.

 

Maybe you could bring this to a head by telling his wife? Otherwise, I don't see why the situation would change. He doesn't have any reason to leave - why go through the divorce, separation of assets, child support, custody arrangements, when he can keep all that he has and still tap you on the side? After 4 years, and the golden opportunity offered by her affair, it's obvious that if he was going to leave he would already have done it. He probably really believes that he is giving his best effort right now, too, by reducing contact with you, but it's only halfhearted as long as he keeps you on the backburner.

 

It's not really your fault, because if it wasn't you, it would be somebody else, but you still don't have to be a part of it. Who knows, maybe if you cut contact with him completely the situation within his marriage will be unbearable enough that he will grow some balls and leave? And then, who knows, you might end up with a grown man, instead of an indecisive child.

[So happy together]

They're perfect for one another. He's never leaving. GUYS DON'T LEAVE THEIR WIVES!!! They hate change, hate seeing the kids on weekends, hate paying child support.

 

Of course she had a revenge affair. Then she saw the light and is trying to give the marriage another try. You should have enough respect and decency to stay out of their stuff.

 

I'm not criticizing you, I'm just telling you what you should do. It's not fair to you to have to play wait and see, it's not fair to put pressure on him and it's not fair to her if she is making an honest effort. Their marital problems are at least 1/2 his fault. don't believe everything you hear. I'm sure he's not a treat.

 

Move on, the sooner the better. Stop doing the things that you know are wrong. You know the right answer, you said it. Have the courage to do it.

 

 

My boyfriend left his wife. We're very happy. Sometimes they leave. Some don't like to believe people sometimes leave because they are either worried about their spouse leaving, or they were OM/OW and the AP didn't leave.

 

But sometimes... just sometimes, it happens.

[So happy together]

I believe in being happy. Neither of them have been happy for a very long time. He stayed until his daughter was an adult, and is now pursuing his own happiness. I'm fine with it.

[psm04]

I'm new here and really need some thoughts on what is going on. I've been lurking and cannot find anything about what I am looking for I have been in a relationship with a MM for 4 years and I was also married when it began. I ended my relationship shortly after it began for many reasons. The A was suspected, but not confirmed by my ex. His spouse also has suspected, but has never confirmed it despite several people informing that we were spending time together and most of our friends knowing about our relationship. She does know we are friends. After several rocky years, MC, constant talk of divorce, they began to get along, although our relationship did not stop. Then he discovered that during the months he had thought they were getting along, she had been having an EA and possibly a PA with another man. She did not disclose this, rather she was caught. After some serious talks, they decided to attempt to reconcile. Then she shut down for another month and a half. A few weeks ago, she suddenly did a complete 180 and is now open, honest, communicative and making every effort with him. Once again, we have not stopped our A, but we have limited the physical side so that he can gain more perspective on staying or going. At the moment, he will not leave. They have a young child and he wants to determine if this change is real and permanent. I have watched this happen before and every single time before, she soon lapsed into her old ways and he would get frustrated and ready to leave. I am well aware that each of these times, I have made it better for him and ironically made it easier for him to stay. My questions are: How can she have undergone a complete 180 almost overnight in her behavior? He feels that it is because they are communicating now and she shocked herself by the EA. I feel it is damage control. Will this behavior revert again? I feel that any change is probably temporary as it is not her normal behavior and also she knows he is still seeing me, although he continues to maintain that we are just friends. Is this hyperbonding? I am so confused as he is keeping the relationship with me going, but seems incapable of leaving there. I know the good advice is just to leave and let him figure it out on his own, but I am not ready to make that decision. I would just like an unbiased opinion on the sustainability of this marriage and behavior.

 

Hi there, I hope none of what I'm saying comes off as mean to you, because it's not. I do agree with several of the other posters on here who are trying to help you. This guy, however nice he probably is and however much he loves you, is still keeping you around for his selfish reasons. My xOMM did the same thing to me. When he wife was having her bad days, I was the band-aid that made him feel better. And then when he was having good days with her and his kids, I didn't matter, although he always wanted to be "friends" with me. Probably so that he could keep me on his good side. He is keeping the relationship with you and his M together because that's what he wants to do. And you are right about you making it easy for him to stay. Why would he leave when you provide the things that his wife lacks? He's getting it all. And if his W decides to leave (not he. sorry but i don't see him leaving, if he fits the pattern of most people who have affairs), he has you waiting for him. Do you really want to be with him via that situation?

 

I wouldn't worry about his wife's behavior, or his M. You really should take care of your emotional well being. The fact that you are on here posting means this has definitely been in your mind a lot. He probably knows how you feel and he is still willing to string you along. I'm not saying that he doesn't love you. I'm sure he does. But, he wants to be in his marriage also. And, no one can predict the sustainability of their marriage. They may not have a good marriage, but I can see them staying together forever, especially if they have children.

[So happy together]

That is my point. They were both unhappy already.

[So happy together]

I'm saying, they were both ALREADY unhappy. Had been for years. There was, not only no sex, but no intimacy. No friendship. No common interests. Now, they will both have at least a chance of finding someone with whom she has more in common. I am sure you don't understand, as you're not in my position. But sometimes, they leave, and EVERYONE is happier.

[So happy together]

I'm not justifying anything. You just can't handle that I'm being real about it. We are human beings, and whatever you say, everyone is better because of our situation changing.

[ComingInHot]

"He is aware that she frequently makes sudden changes and then reverts back to being distant and defensive though."

 

...while H remains stable and consistant in his cheating & lying.

 

This cheating, lying manipulator is truly a tragic person.

 

Wonder what legacy he will be leaving behind when all is said and done?.

 

"Here lies _____________(cheating Husband), here he lies w/all his lies...

[scatterd]

"Here lies _____________(cheating Husband), here he lies w/all his lies...

 

Good one cominginhot.