Abused 22 years, then he changed.

[turnera]

He wants to watch film with D on the sette in the house. So I have to talk to H and say to back off. This will not go down well with him at all.

Too bad so sad. (for him) That's a consequence. Consequences TEACH us stuff. About time he started learning.

 

I hope you're not saying you'll let him come just to keep the peace. That's victimspeak.

 

I would plan to have Christmas at your folks' house. If he has the balls to show up there, let him.

[jennaflorrie]

H. Was pleased! He. Told me yesterday by. Text that when he. Texted. D the previous night she had ended her text to him with.....love you xxx. I. Asked. L. Later why she did. That.....she said he was. Being nice.....she. was. Being. Nice. I was. A. Bit. Puzzled by that!

[Grumpybutfun]

H. Was pleased! He. Told me yesterday by. Text that when he. Texted. D the previous night she had ended her text to him with.....love you xxx. I. Asked. L. Later why she did. That.....she said he was. Being nice.....she. was. Being. Nice. I was. A. Bit. Puzzled by that!

Jenna:

I'm not surprised at all. You have taught your daughter how to be a victim and to "play nice" to get by and not make any waves. As I said before, you have most certainly set her up for attracting an abuser because that is how she perceives how men treat women. You should have left a long time ago. Your waiting around and giving him chance after chance has allowed your daughter to think that this is what relationships look like...play nice even if you feel abused.

Get counseling for your son because your marriage will be the role model for how he treats his wife in the future and it isn't going to be pretty.

Call lawyer today, and get this abuser out of your home for good. He should not be having any contact with your daughter, as she is an adult and can choose not to if you show her that is a healthy alternative. If you do not, this cycle will continue in your children's lives. Is that what you want for them?

Grumps

[jennaflorrie]

My. D has seen her dad....he told her it was. All his fault and that she was in .o way to blame for what happened. H says he doesn't know why he was mean to. D. Just in. October for example......he just says he was stressed. By the. House and was. Just. Focused on making. Me happy. He says he will price himself to us. All. But. Today d still called him by his. First. Name when. She was. Talking to me about him......nothing. bad....but twas. Clear she still isn't. Calling. Him. Dad!!! H remains. Repentant and humble and. full of. Remorse.

[turnera]

That's because he still doesn't have what he wants - you all back together. If you all get back together before he gets mental help, he will just regress as soon as he knows he got you back.

[beach]

I will tell you a small snippet from my life. I don't like to recall much of my 23 years with my abusive exH - it pains me.

 

When he was great he was amazing. When he intended to inflict his manipulation and control it was sheer hell.

 

I've been divorced for 8 years - and have such minimal contact with him (which is freedom now). I instilled some solid boundaries and learned appropriate phrases that shut down any conversation he intended to have. This has kept me safe and protected - but also something I COULD control! Rules of engagement is what I was told. First rule is "do NOT engage"! There are many more good tricks that work wonders.

 

Well, last week it was unavoidable as my adult son had a terrible car accident!

 

My exH was at the hospital most of the time with me for several days. All was going well because he was being "his very nice self". Bringing in treats and doing kind things for us - knowing his history my guard was always up.

 

The last day when my son was to be released and learned that my son wanted to come home to my house - all hell broke loose! I will tell you - my son was lucky to be alive! My exH was enraged when he couldn't FORCE my son to go to his house - and literally lunged across the room at my son. Looked like he was ready to hit him!

 

My son stood up for himself! He's learned what's necessary to have an upper hand on his dads mean streaks. I intervened too at that point - pointing out how completely inappropriate he was being and how abusive his voice and body language was being!

 

He was enraged! He stormed out of the room and started telling everyone who would listen how unfair it was. They reminded him his son is an adult and can make his own decisions.

 

A few minutes later my son said "Mom, look, I can see dad down in the parking lot pacing about and arms flailing around while he's talking on his phone!" My God, the sight of him storming around throwing his temper tantrum was horrific - all because he didn't have his usual power and didn't get his way.

 

He is a control freak and will manipulate to get his way.

 

He returned - throwing another fit... And took all of my sons things and stormed out when my son didn't want to go home with him. He used guilt, shame and manipulation tactics to try and persuade my son - all the while yelling and screaming at him!

 

My son was having none of it and said so! I stood there saying to my exH "my God look at yourself;look at what you're doing".

 

I'm telling you this because I KNOW I've become a very strong and healthy woman who, after years of abuse, can have a voice and speak my truth. I do my best to stay away from interacting with him. Obviously, there are times when it can't be avoided.

 

But when the monster comes out - there is NO WARNING! It's usually because he has no power! If/when he doesn't get his way he will make life miserable for anyone around him...he's a beast!

 

 

I'm telling you this because you can't know or trust that the beast won't show up!

 

I've spent ten tons of money on trauma counseling to get past the abuser... Is $60K worth it? Yes, I'd say it is... Because I will never hand him MY power again. My reaction and interaction with my exH was as good as it could have been. We didn't over react to his rage. We stated how unreasonable he was acting and told him we didn't agree with anything he was saying/doing.

 

I was proud of my son too! He stood firm on being in control of himself and pointing out that my exH was completely out of line!

 

You may not learn to be strong - but at least teach your daughter how she can become stronger and true to herself. She seems to have the courage and strength but needs confirmation that she's on the right path.

 

You keep undoing her strong traits. I hate to say that - but your example isn't modeling the strength an abused woman will need to break free of that familiar pattern.

 

Get help for your daughter, please! It may be too late to change you - but your daughter still has a chance if she doesn't follow your lead (or lack of).

 

Best case is you also cut him out of your life like he's a cancer - but I doubt you can do that - as you seem to follow a pattern of inviting the abuser to come around for a visit.

 

You also haven't taken steps to show him "it's over!" By getting the divorce papers filed...in fact, quite the opposite - you keep giving him mixed signals that make him think the M has a chance of continuing.

 

IF it's over = file for divorce!

 

 

If you're weak and want to go back - ok - but just know you will be harmed and so will your kids.i will never support that.

 

For what it's worth - most abusers can't be cured and most don't change much...even with God and even with therapy.

 

Thinking he has changed/might change isn't worth thinking about.

 

Move forward. Plan your life without him.

 

Get help to learn how to adjust to life without an abuser - you may keep stepping in when it's calm - because you're not used to things being calm and serene.

 

Calm and serene should be normal - but it's never normal with the abuser = all more reason to get him out of your life completely.

 

Block him from your daughters phone! You should be PROTECTING her from his contact!

 

If he wants to call your son - let him contact directly!

 

No more coming over - no more calling you. He can talk to your attorney.

Edited December 8, 2013 by beach

[jennaflorrie]

Thanks for your post, I really appreciate you taking the time to type all that out! You are right that I can never be sure when that beast of anger will raise its ugly head. And all he has done in the past has contaminated any future I can have with him.

 

 

My D is 19 years old. I cant go blocking her dad from her phone. He does text her. He tells her that he will prove him self. And he is desperately trying to do so. I cannot cut him out like a cancer, that would be easier, because he is still the father of my children and my S wants to see him, my d hugs him when she sees him and buys him chocolate. She gives ME mixed messages. She still calls him by his first name, but she will chat away happily to him.

 

 

The things H says......just charm offensive! And he stays calm! When I sent him a text in response to his to me.....saying "I owe you nothing, Ii owe your parents nothing, I owe my family nothing...I owe you ALL nothing. So you can all take a hike" He sent me back a text saying he would always love me. He didn't get angry, just kept reinforcing his "I am always going to be so sorry that I did those things to you....I am going to prove to you all that I have changed, even if it takes my whole life......."

 

 

He is like a dog with a bone. He doesn't force his way in. He knocks on the front door. He is polite. He is calm. He stays calm. When I tell him to go he goes. He says he just doesn't want to upset his daughter and that he loves her.

 

 

BUT !!! As you rightly said........How can I be really sure he will never abuse me or my D or my S or my Dog or cat or whatever....ever again?! How can I trust him?

 

 

I have not given him hope, but he clings on to hope. Telling me that he will never love anyone else. That he will go buy a camper van and travel.

 

 

He seems genuinely remorseful, he admits its all his fault. He owns his faults. BUT.....!"!!!!!! Trust.

 

 

You have spent a lot of money on counselling!!! But I do understand how difficult it is to get past an abuser. My H has stated he wants to look after us, he wants to protect us. He WAS a control freak.

 

 

He goes to church. He prays. You know what I mean?!!!

 

 

Son says his dad is a good dad. "He doesn't smoke, he doesn't drink...he goes to work. He takes me to football...."

 

 

I know what I have to do. And that is stay strong.

[beach]

My xH will always love me too - I know that.

 

But he is great 90% of the time - it's the 10% - and sometimes the 1% that confused me - it's by design and serves his purpose.

 

When he texts - do NOT response= do not engage!

 

My boys were teens when we divorced and I told them to text directly with their Dad - I wasn't going to engage him in communicating unless it was an emergency.

 

Your kids can learn their way - you don't need to be in the middle - disengage as much as possible.

 

Silence sends the strongest message.

 

Teach your daughter this too. She doesn't have to respond to him if she chooses not to. And your son can keep his opinion about Dad to himself.

 

 

You've given him hope simply by not filing for divorce...and still allowing him to engage. Stop responding. Stop having him come by. IF he intends to pick up your son - have your son meet him a block away. Start creating distance and a boundary - one that shows him you are moving forward without him involved in your life.

[jennaflorrie]

My xH will always love me too - I know that.

 

But he is great 90% of the time - it's the 10% - and sometimes the 1% that confused me - it's by design and serves his purpose.

 

When he texts - do NOT response= do not engage!

 

My boys were teens when we divorced and I told them to text directly with their Dad - I wasn't going to engage him in communicating unless it was an emergency.

 

Your kids can learn their way - you don't need to be in the middle - disengage as much as possible.

 

Silence sends the strongest message.

 

Teach your daughter this too. She doesn't have to respond to him if she chooses not to. And your son can keep his opinion about Dad to himself.

 

 

You've given him hope simply by not filing for divorce...and still allowing him to engage. Stop responding. Stop having him come by. IF he intends to pick up your son - have your son meet him a block away. Start creating distance and a boundary - one that shows him you are moving forward without him involved in your life.

 

 

 

Beach.....I am very worried about D. She made cakes with me this afternoon and was in good spirits. Then her granddad (dads dad) came and collected her brother for Football match. When he dropped him off after the football, he came in and didn't speak to Daughter.....she put her arm on his shoulder and tried to show him the cakes she had made, but he mentioned diets and continued talking to me.

 

 

She went up to her room. Shortly after her granddad drove back hours journey home.

 

 

Then she was upset, went off for walk by herself. Said everyone was ignoring her. That her Grandad had ignored her. I said, she should have waited 5 minutes, that her granddad was just talking about the football match her brother had played in. That he did love her of course he did!

 

 

But D just ddidnt want to go. Told me to go away. I made her some tea and when she came down later, she said that she felt her granddad had ignored her. That she had been looking forward to making the cakes and had shown him but he wasn't interested.

 

 

I said he had just been focused on answering my questions and reiterated that he did love her.

 

 

I asked her If she wanted to see her dad. She said "I don't want to talk about it" I said "why did you say you loved your dad by text and put kisses after?" She said she had been nice because he had been kind to her about a sad incident that had happened previously.

 

 

She said it was my fault anyway for marrying an idiot.

 

 

When I told her she didn't have to see him, she again said she didn't want to talk about it and to go away.

 

 

I am just so worried about D. She refuses to get counselling or to go to Dr.

 

 

I have tried to encourage her but I am stumped about what to do about H.

 

 

OK I can say don't come in, collect Son at door. But if D will not TELL me if she WANTS to see her father or not, it is difficult.

 

 

D is so angry and upset and hurting. I guess it will just take time and patience.

[beach]

Your daughters feelings are valid - don't make excuses for grampa and his rude behavior.

 

StbexH can pick up your son down the block!

 

Doing the little things like having him picked up elsewhere sends him a message ---> that you don't want him there at the house.

 

Or are you afraid to state the simplest boundary? I hope not. You need to start somewhere! You don't owe your H or your son any explanation - just state it as you would any other task. Meet dad down the block. If he argues state that he doesn't make your rules.

 

It won't take time and patience for your D - it will take CHANGE - changes that you, as her Mother, need to do to allow her to understand things NEED to be different!

Edited December 8, 2013 by beach

[turnera]

Yeah, just let her feel what she's feeling. Don't try to minimize what happened to her. Agree with her, but don't let her get into criticizing people unnecessarily.

 

What she needs from you now, IMO, is calm, confident, trusting (in her).

[jennaflorrie]

My dad told me two days ago...."You should take .......back as soon as possible.....he has shown repentance, he is willing to change.....your D must meet him half way. she must respect her father and tidy the house, so he wont have things to moan about....yes H has done wrong....but she would annoy me sometimes, she can be lazy....you have to think and your D have tot think about your Son not having a father....."

 

When I said that it was very difficult for D to forgive her father He nodded and agreed but said that divorce would be the wrong option.

 

He has not been anywhere near us for nearly a week. Son has not asked for him. D seems brighter. She is still calling him by his name. NOT dad.

[turnera]

How have YOU been this past week?

[beach]

And it's time to stop listening to the men in your life. You could tell your Dad the topic if your husband is off limits.

[jennaflorrie]

How have YOU been this past week?

 

I. Am good! Don't miss h. Been putting up Christmas decorations...feeling hopeful and excited. Making paper chains with. D. D has been baking. Cake and. I have enjoyed long walks with the dog. H father came down here on. Sunday to take. S to. Football as. H. Working. He came in and sat down waiting for. Son....I talked with my father in law without embarrassment. I have paid whatever. Dues. I. Owed and owe Noone. Anything. Although I still pity. H. I realise that he used my soft heart as a means to keep me forgiving him and taking him back. He did all this himself. And I won't feel obliged to anyone anymore

[jennaflorrie]

And it's time to stop listening to the men in your life. You could tell your Dad the topic if your husband is off limits.

 

Yes.....talked. to my dad tonight. He called. H. A big clod of earth!!! I told my dad that. H had had good run out of me and he was damn lucky to get so long!!! I said I would not b. Told by anyone what to do. That it was my decision go I owed nobody a thing!

[TaraMaiden]

My dad told me two days ago...."You should take .......back as soon as possible.....he has shown repentance, he is willing to change.....

 

Response:

"He's had 22 years to change, and I'm done waiting. My patience has run out and it's his fault he's left it too long, too little and too late."

 

your D must meet him half way. she must respect her father and tidy the house, so he wont have things to moan about....yes H has done wrong....but she would annoy me sometimes, she can be lazy....

 

Response:

"My daughter has suffered enough at the abusive words of her father. She has always met him half-way and he has simply trodden her into the dirt again, and again. I will NOT have her turning into another me. She has to grow stronger, and does better without him than with him."

 

you have to think and your D have tot think about your Son not having a father....."

Response:

"Don't be ridiculous. Both my children still have a father, and always will have. I have done nothing to destroy or prevent their relationships. And I never will.

How they link up is up to them, but they are neither of them fatherless."

 

When I said that it was very difficult for D to forgive her father He nodded and agreed but said that divorce would be the wrong option.

 

He has not been anywhere near us for nearly a week. Son has not asked for him. D seems brighter. She is still calling him by his name. NOT dad.

 

I rest my case.

[Trapito]

Hi Jenna,

 

I have been lurking your thread. I hope you are doing well and have been strong for both you and your daughter. Any updates?

[beach]

Your Dad seems to expect you to suffer with the abuse as much as your husband does... Do you see that unhealthy pattern?

 

Do you see why it's on you to break this unhealthy cycle?

 

Your h is abusive - your dad knows it - yet he expects you to forgive and go back without evidence that H has changed LOOOONG term (years of new evidence that he's no longer mean).

 

Your dad is as much to blame as H - because he obviously trained you to accept UNACCEPTABLE behavior - and he STILL expects you to return for more abuse. That is enough of terrible and horrific advice to where I'd stand firm with dad and I'd say to dad:

 

"If you tell me one more time to return to that man who is mean and cruel - I will never speak to you again!"

 

Have a boundary - and enforce it if he crosses it! No parent should EVER encourage any child (adult or not) to take more abuse.

 

 

Dad should be encouraging you to stand firm and strong - he should be cheering you on to keep H away at all costs.

[beach]

What has been happening Jenna?

[jennaflorrie]

What has been happening Jenna?

 

 

Hi...HAPPY NEW YEAR.....

 

I am doing fine. Nothing much has happened. Been OK. H still adamant he has changed. No temper tantrums. Accepting of all responsibility. Adamant he will prove himself.

 

D is OK. Happier. Son also is OK.

 

Apart from that nothing to report. H at parents and no plans to move out from there. His parents have been very kind really.

[beach]

That's good to hear! Does he understand his change is for the greater good for all and not the purpose of getting back with you?

[jennaflorrie]

Yes. He says he wants to be the. Best person. For everyone. He remains. Humble. Kind to his. Children. He. Knows. I. Don't trust him.....and says that is his fault alone. Life is. Calmer. I tell him that if he is playing games and ever hurts his. Daughter again.....that. I will never. Ever. Speak to him again. But he says that would be pointless.....he loves. His. Children.....the stress and the headaches he used to get have gone. He no longer. Worries like he used to. He admits he was a. Control freak. But now he wants to see us. Happy.

[turnera]

jenna, please understand that people like him don't - can't - change just because they want to. They need serious, long-term, professional mental help.

[beach]

During the holidays - did you spend it with your kids only or did you include him in your gathering?