Abused 22 years, then he changed.

[Act Two]

I

 

If I'm reading scripture accurately, God hates the reasons for divorce. He may then, conversely, love the opportunity divorce gives the betrayed.

 

 

Right, and I didn't want to belabor the point but since the OP is a person of faith and several of us posting are as well or at least interested in this, from what I understand in Malachi God says, "I hate divorce." This is frequently used in Christian circles to condemn divorce, and was used against me.

 

From what take to mean is what you said, in that of course God hates divorce- who doesn't? But the reasons that cause the need for it are what are to be condemned, not the divorce itself or the person divorcing.

[BetheButterfly]

OK....steadfast......so...breaking it down. Divorce is not justified.

 

Actually, divorce is justified in certain cases. Adultery is most definitely the main case, and abuse is just as harmful as adultery. (One must take into consideration that long time ago, abuse was not seen to be as harmful as it is seen today. Why? I don't know. However, I think that Jesus started something when he taught his people and those who follow him (including Gentiles) to love others. I think Love has grown like a plant to expose abuse to be unacceptable.)

I know my relationship with God does not depend on my marital condition

So, I must stay with my husband. I must forgive him.

Forgiving someone does not mean that you must stay with that person. Forgiving basically means canceling the debt that person owes you. Your husband can never pay back the abuse you and your daughter suffered. You can with God's help forgive (cancel that debt), but that doesn't mean you have to continue to be married to him.

 

I must forget about this other man...who I moved away from, church and area. Trying to be faithful to God.

I very much admire your desire to obey God!!! Remember though that God is Love, and your husband has not been loving. I hope he is changing, but he should have changed years ago. However, just because he's hopefully changing does not nullify the fact that HE KILLED YOUR MARRIAGE.

 

But I dont love my husband. My heart died to him November 2011. I felt the marriage dissolve...end.

I understand; the marriage entered the throes of death when he started abusing you. It is sad that he does not understand there are consequences to abusing someone, and one of those consequences is that your heart died to him.

 

Truly. Then, WHAM...something amazing happened and I felt literally love struck by this other man. I did not seek it. I never flirt...dress in a way to attract attention.....it truly did just happen.

Understood. However, I think it's very important to spend at least a year without either man in your life: your husband or this other man. If one of them truly loves you, he will wait for you.

 

 

So as well as sacrificing 22 years.....and my daughters happiness. I must now sacrifice the rest of my life.

No. You must now spend time to heal from the hurts the man who was SUPPOSED to love you and protect you inflicted on you. You must now spend time dedicated to helping your daughter heal to from the abuse her father inflicted on her.

 

He did not love you like he was supposed to do. He broke the contract/covenant of marriage, not just once but again and again for years.

 

My H has changed and I must thank God for that. Pray that somehow this marriage revives itself. And hope that God will help my D too.

I think you need to wait at least a year to see if he's really changed... Also, even if he has changed, I personally think your marriage is already dead and buried. Will it resurrect? I don't know, but I think right now you owe it to yourself to just rest and heal without any man in your life.

 

I know the Bible too. I know what the bible says about Divorce. I know he didnt mention abuse

It's vital to understand that Jesus was talking to men who considered their wives as property and who basically threw their wives away. Jesus was showing how wives are one with their husbands; that God's ideal is for them to live together as one, not for men to throw their wives away and get new ones like commodities/property!

 

Jenna, I was married to a man who criticized me all the time and made me feel very unloved. I never could do anything right. My parents had been against the marriage because they knew he was not the man for me, but they reluctantly supported us getting married. We were married for almost 5 years and even though my husband repeatedly stressed the verses about wives submitting to their husbands, he did not love me like Christ loves the church. Bitterness creeped into my heart and my heart died to him too.

 

I divorced my husband and quickly fell in love with another man. I wanted so desperately to feel loved by a man; I moved in with him. However, my heart was restless and I felt so guilty. Even though I greatly enjoyed this man's love, I was so hurt and my heart had not healed from the past. I ended up breaking this man's heart. Please don't do this to the man you currently are in love with, ok? Please let your heart heal first. If he truly loves you and is the one for you, he will wait!

Anyways, I love Jesus and I felt so horrible about divorcing that I forgave my ex and tried to reconcile with him, but he had already moved on and found another lady to marry. I sought counsel from a Messianic Jewish Rabbi who understands the Jewish culture and the growth cultures experience when Love is in the picture. Jesus is Jewish and was talking to Jewish men around 2 thousand years ago. This Rabbi helped me understand that what Jesus said about divorce has to do with the culture at that time, where men thought of women as property to discard whenever they pleased. (Many Gentile cultures as well thought of women as property; some still do.)

 

He said that many Christians make the error of thinking these verses mean that one must stay in an abusive and ungodly marriage, and he said that this is not true. Jesus' teachings focus on Love. Love is what holds marriages together, which is why Paul instructs husbands to love their wives. Without husbands truly loving their wives, wives cannot respect their husbands.

 

When I understood that God had forgiven me for all my sins (after I asked God's forgiveness and repented) and that I was free to marry the man God brought into my life, God brought a wonderful man into my life who loves God and loves me too!!! We have been married for almost 2 years and I am so grateful to God for him!!! (He is not the man that I fell in love with so early after my divorce, whose heart I broke due to my not being healed.)

 

 

. Or marriages dying but they do die. We are married till DEATH do us part. In my marriage the death happened 2 years ago and it was murdered by my H.

Yes. Your marriage is over.

 

Course he is sorry now. The other guy was the RESULT of my dead marriage. My soul was free suddenly...and found someone else to tie too. Do you see that?

 

God help me.

 

Please find rest and healing for your soul first. God will help you! Please don't make the error of thinking that God's will is for you to be with someone who disobeyed Him and didn't love you.

 

Please consider an official separation from your husband, not living with him or even dating him, and wait at least a year, going to counseling (and your daughter going to counseling too). The reason I think maybe a year of separation without dating anyone is best is because at least right now, your husband does seem willing to change. However, a year without dating or living with you might help you both see if he truly is or not, and after that time of rest maybe it'd be easier to figure out whether to divorce or to reconcile.

 

Regardless, it is really important to start the healing process before getting into another relationship. I learned that the hard way.

 

Love and blessings and you are in my prayers!!!

Edited April 5, 2013 by BetheButterfly

[BetheButterfly]

Right, and I didn't want to belabor the point but since the OP is a person of faith and several of us posting are as well or at least interested in this, from what I understand in Malachi God says, "I hate divorce." This is frequently used in Christian circles to condemn divorce, and was used against me.

 

From what take to mean is what you said, in that of course God hates divorce- who doesn't? But the reasons that cause the need for it are what are to be condemned, not the divorce itself or the person divorcing.

 

Yeah, so true! I think it's really important to go into why God hates divorce, or "putting away" because I think that's where the issue lies.

 

I boldened some below:

 

Malachi Chapter 2

"14 Yet ye say: 'Wherefore?' Because HaShem hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously, though she is thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. 15 And not one hath done so who had exuberance of spirit! For what seeketh the one? a seed given of G-d. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

16 For I hate putting away, saith HaShem, the G-d of Israel, and him that covereth his garment with violence, saith HaShem of hosts; therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously."

 

People tend to skip that of how God specifies men who "dealt treacherously" with their wives, and that God hates "him that covereth his garment with violence."

 

Abuse is most definitely violence.

 

Jesus, in his answer concerning divorce, addressed that men's hardness of heart is the reason for divorce.

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+19&version=NIV

" When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2 Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there. 3 Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

7 “Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

11Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given."

 

Jesus talked about how Moses permitted divorce because of the hardness of MEN's hearts. Again, it's important to realize that Jesus was talking to men who considered women as property. Jesus was showing them that women aren't property, but rather that their wives are one with them.

It's also important to remember that Jesus taught his followers to love.

While he didn't specify husbands loving their wives, it stands to reason that when Jesus stressed to love one's neighbor as oneself (Matthew 22:39), each other (John 15:12), and one's enemies (Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:27-37), that husbands and wives should love each other... you know?

 

Paul, even though he wasn't married, made it clear that men are to love their wives like Christ loves the church:

 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+5&version=NIV

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[b] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."

 

I think that's so beautiful.

 

Jenna, it is obvious that your husband has not obeyed Jesus in loving you, nor followed Paul's admonition for husband to love their wives.

 

Divorce is because of hardness of heart, and not loving you is hardness of his heart, and that killed your heart's softness for him.

 

God loves you and does not want you to be abused. Malachi 2 is very clear that God takes the side of the abused victim. He does not want people to abuse others.

 

Please seek counsel and healing and please know that even though God hates divorce, he hates the REASONS for that divorce, and the reasons for if you divorce your husband are valid, because violence (both verbal and physical violence/abuse) kills marriage, as well as other relationships.

Edited April 5, 2013 by BetheButterfly

[Eve]

OP, regarding the issue of faith. Pray simply that your heart does not become hardened so you will be able to answer and see clearly - and hence be lead to safety.

 

Gain your full peace.

 

Ask God to help your heart so that any residual pain and hurt can be healed and thus not be transformed into more negativity.

 

Don't be pressed into complicating the faith issue by anyone, ever.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[jennaflorrie]

Had some great advice, which why I came here. Thanks.

 

Just pondering it all.

 

He was with me yesterday, cried. Said he would always love me and be there for me. That he felt terrible about the past. That he knows he has changed. He says its up to me what I do, but I will be the only woman he ever loves.

 

Nice. Smooth words. But when I am with him, I still feel drained and dead to him.

 

I told him I need time and that he affected our D confidence and self esteem. He said he loves her. He knows he has done wrong. But today, he was in her room, yelling to get up and that it wasnt good enough. She needs to get moving. He says she is not motivated because she is lazy, I said no, she is depressed still and needs encouragement.

 

I saw my D mouthing "Hate you" at her dad. And she stuck her middle finger up at him behind his back.

 

The mood is different when he is here. But I feel even more confused. When he is away from me, I see clearly. When he is here everything feels clouded and confused...when he says all these lovely things.....and he is repentant. Totaly admits his fault. Says he has changed. Says everything right.

 

He is working on the house now, trying so hard to please. Trying to make ammend. But I still dont feel a connection.

[TaraMaiden]

Your husband's presence weakens your defences.

I believe he knows this.

He is buttering you up - and I do not believe the relationship between him and your daughter can ever be repaired, improved or amended.

 

You need to think clearly - and to do that, you have to be away form him.

Your defences are wracked with guilt, and you feel 'responsible' for the impending bombshell you are going to drop into his lap.

 

he will say everything within his power to persuade you he is now Mr Wonderful. He is doing everything he can to bring about HIS desired result.

 

Trust yourself.

Whatever you think and feel, is right for you.

[jennaflorrie]

Your husband's presence weakens your defences.

I believe he knows this.

He is buttering you up - and I do not believe the relationship between him and your daughter can ever be repaired, improved or amended.

 

You need to think clearly - and to do that, you have to be away form him.

Your defences are wracked with guilt, and you feel 'responsible' for the impending bombshell you are going to drop into his lap.

 

he will say everything within his power to persuade you he is now Mr Wonderful. He is doing everything he can to bring about HIS desired result.

 

Trust yourself.

Whatever you think and feel, is right for you.

 

 

Worked last night, slept in but woke up at 11 am heard talking...low voice.....got up and went into bathroom, actually knelt down and put my head on floor of bathroom to try and hear what was being said in kitchen downstairs.

 

I heard H talking to D....on and on. She said "Fine" in a quiet way. I went down stairs...H was talking quietly to D still. When I went in, he stopped and went out. D was upset called him names. She refused to tell me what he said first of all. I said "Look, I wasnt here, I need to know what he said to you".

 

She cried (she hardly ever cries), said her dad had said "you cause all the trouble in this house...." and "you are lazy" and "depression is all in the mind". D said she thought to herself at that last remark "Well done Einstein".

 

He had been saying she doesnt do enough and she had been heard swearing at her brother, she felt her Dad always takes her brothers side.

 

D told me that when she tried to disagree with her dad...he knocked the drink out of her hand and it went across the room. He said "My word is Law".

 

My H came in when I was hugging D and she was upset. He denied saying anything.....when I said D was upset D said "dont argue mum". Then her dad said he believed in her. He tried to hug her but she didnt want to be hugged and I said " Leave her alone". D told me later that her dad is Bi polar and crafty.

 

The pressure on me throughout the day has been immense. H trying to hug me, coming to church with us. Me feeling like I am drowning. I HAVE to tell H to go. But yes, you are right, I feel responsible for the BOMBSHELL and fallout that will be caused. What can I do though? My D cannot become strong when she is being knocked down by her Dad. He feels he is trying to motivate her, but he isn't. He is off again tommorrow, for 4 days and frankly I cannot wait for him to go.

[dreamingoftigers]

For the love of God.

 

Protect her. That's the same type of esteem-eroding crap my Dad did to me all through childhood.

 

And I'm still trying to peel back the layers of Effed-up damage to my self-worth.

 

My mother didn't have the cajones to protect me and, like you, she knew what the deal was. I am more disgusted with her for not protecting me than I am at my father for being an idiot.

 

He was an idiot who didn't think he was an idiot. He took my place as the oldest child in the family. So juvenile, secretive and abusive.

 

But my mother KNEW he was an idiot and did nothing. She kept him

Around for her emotional/financial benefit.

 

She should have stood up for us kids. She didn't. It made her an EVEN BIGGER IDIOT in my eyes.

 

Worked last night, slept in but woke up at 11 am heard talking...low voice.....got up and went into bathroom, actually knelt down and put my head on floor of bathroom to try and hear what was being said in kitchen downstairs.

 

I heard H talking to D....on and on. She said "Fine" in a quiet way. I went down stairs...H was talking quietly to D still. When I went in, he stopped and went out. D was upset called him names. She refused to tell me what he said first of all. I said "Look, I wasnt here, I need to know what he said to you".

 

She cried (she hardly ever cries), said her dad had said "you cause all the trouble in this house...." and "you are lazy" and "depression is all in the mind". D said she thought to herself at that last remark "Well done Einstein".

 

He had been saying she doesnt do enough and she had been heard swearing at her brother, she felt her Dad always takes her brothers side.

 

D told me that when she tried to disagree with her dad...he knocked the drink out of her hand and it went across the room. He said "My word is Law".

 

My H came in when I was hugging D and she was upset. He denied saying anything.....when I said D was upset D said "dont argue mum". Then her dad said he believed in her. He tried to hug her but she didnt want to be hugged and I said " Leave her alone". D told me later that her dad is Bi polar and crafty.

 

The pressure on me throughout the day has been immense. H trying to hug me, coming to church with us. Me feeling like I am drowning. I HAVE to tell H to go. But yes, you are right, I feel responsible for the BOMBSHELL and fallout that will be caused. What can I do though? My D cannot become strong when she is being knocked down by her Dad. He feels he is trying to motivate her, but he isn't. He is off again tommorrow, for 4 days and frankly I cannot wait for him to go.

[dreamingoftigers]

Furthermore their conflicts are ridiculous. And toxic.

 

Get her into some kind of conflict-management or EQ course so she can effectively have a relationship that isn't a total trainwreck when she's older.

 

As for him, he can solve his own stuff.

 

Don't go between them anymore except to clearly protect her.

 

Don't try to "get him to understand."

 

He doesn't want to understand!

 

He wants to be in charge. He wants to abuse. And since you aren't his target-practice anymore, guess who is?

 

Quit trying to reason with an adult male who is abusing your daughter!

[jennaflorrie]

For the love of God.

 

Protect her. That's the same type of esteem-eroding crap my Dad did to me all through childhood.

 

And I'm still trying to peel back the layers of Effed-up damage to my self-worth.

 

My mother didn't have the cajones to protect me and, like you, she knew what the deal was. I am more disgusted with her for not protecting me than I am at my father for being an idiot.

 

He was an idiot who didn't think he was an idiot. He took my place as the oldest child in the family. So juvenile, secretive and abusive.

 

But my mother KNEW he was an idiot and did nothing. She kept him

Around for her emotional/financial benefit.

 

She should have stood up for us kids. She didn't. It made her an EVEN BIGGER IDIOT in my eyes.

 

I always stand up for my children. Thats why my D said "Don't Argue Mum", because she knows I will fight like a tiger for her. She is 18 and her dad has reducing power over her.

 

You are right. And I am an idiot for putting up with it for so long. My H is like the Oldest kid. So True! But the emotional tricks these manipulative men come up with bind you. Its only since 2011 that I felt something break free.

 

I kept with my H when the kids were young, because I didnt want him to have them for weekends and holidays and God knows what and get up to God knows what....so I put up with HIM so I couldhave my kids in my sights. Its only since 2011 that I realise - I am not tied to him anymore, the marriage is dead, yes, he has changed, but obviously as seen today - still up to his crafty old tricks.

 

I have no choice. My D comes first. We have all put up with enough.

 

He is gone.

[jennaflorrie]

Furthermore their conflicts are ridiculous. And toxic.

 

Get her into some kind of conflict-management or EQ course so she can effectively have a relationship that isn't a total trainwreck when she's older.

 

As for him, he can solve his own stuff.

 

Don't go between them anymore except to clearly protect her.

 

Don't try to "get him to understand."

 

He doesn't want to understand!

 

He wants to be in charge. He wants to abuse. And since you aren't his target-practice anymore, guess who is?

 

Quit trying to reason with an adult male who is abusing your daughter!

 

He is a big idiot kid. My D thinks he is a retard. Its all toxic. Thank God he works away, so we only see him half the time we used to.

 

He can lived with his mum and dad. Just my Son has exams to take and how all this will effect him. But can I even wait till July?

[dreamingoftigers]

My Mom would argue with him too!

But it was like she was trying to educate him! She never put her foot down!

 

She never said: "stop treating our kid like that Right effing NOW and get into anger management/therapy/smarten the eff up or you are GONE."

 

NEVER.

 

And that made all the difference.

 

You can sit in negotiations and doing the "educational" After School Specials for DECADES with an abuser. He KNOWS what he's doing is crapola. That's why he does it when your back is turned! He doesn't need another lesson in the "basics of treating a child reasonably."

 

But as well, your daughter has been filled to the brim with this toxicity. She probably isn't going to be completely honest with you either. I say that because I wasn't with my mother. I couldn't trust her. She turned a blind eye/didn't believe the extent of it/saw what she described as "isolated incidents" and I "gave him Hell for it" type stuff for so long that she simply was NOT a reliable ally. I also never had her full attention because she was too busy trying to put the fire out with my father's latest antics. Instead of throwing out the idiot who kept starting them.

 

Your daughter is going to need A LOT of help sorting of her life-context. She is going to have a very hard time trusting. She might be waaayy too open or very dishonest. Any way you cut it, the years of abuse will have affected how she views relationships and who is trustworthy.

 

It's going to be VERY confusing to her no matter how she may confidently present herself over the next couple of years.

 

Start by reading about Boundaries (By Cloud and Townshend) and get into therapy yourself. Find out ways to solidly protect yourself against poor boundaries and manipulation.

 

How do I know you have poor boundaries? Because I would've tossed my husband's ass (donkey) out the door about five seconds after I heard that crap from him towards my daughter.

 

My husband would need to find God if he did that to my little girl. It's the only hope he'd have.

Because I know what it feels like.

I know what it does to little kids who look up to their Dads like superheroes.

And all little girls do.

 

 

I always stand up for my children. Thats why my D said "Don't Argue Mum", because she knows I will fight like a tiger for her. She is 18 and her dad has reducing power over her.

 

You are right. And I am an idiot for putting up with it for so long. My H is like the Oldest kid. So True! But the emotional tricks these manipulative men come up with bind you. Its only since 2011 that I felt something break free.

 

I kept with my H when the kids were young, because I didnt want him to have them for weekends and holidays and God knows what and get up to God knows what....so I put up with HIM so I couldhave my kids in my sights. Its only since 2011 that I realise - I am not tied to him anymore, the marriage is dead, yes, he has changed, but obviously as seen today - still up to his crafty old tricks.

 

I have no choice. My D comes first. We have all put up with enough.

 

He is gone.

[dreamingoftigers]

He is a big idiot kid. My D thinks he is a retard. Its all toxic. Thank God he works away, so we only see him half the time we used to.

 

He can lived with his mum and dad. Just my Son has exams to take and how all this will effect him. But can I even wait till July?

 

If they are high school exams, and it'll cause him to get low grades. He can retake them. Pay for them if it helps ease the guilt.

 

Your son's exam issues are a "maybe."

 

Your daughter is being targeted CERTAINLY NOW.

 

And to be honest. You can't keep these emotions and this situation negotiated and at bay. You won't be able to. And his exit will most likely be explosive and unplanned. Because at some point you'll hear his crap towards your daughter and you'll finally go off. (I would hope)

 

Since he is only visiting 3 days a week anyway, infirm the kids that he won't be able to stay at the house until after your son's exams are over. If son and father want to see each other (and father isn't an asshat (donkeyhat) to son, let them).

 

You don't need to shake things up and file for Divorce ten seconds out the gate if that is only going to cause total turmoil for THE KIDS.

 

Suspend visits for now and get a separation. Tell husband to keep an effing lid on it for the sons exams if need be. He may not. Not your problem.

 

You are trying to clean up the consequences of your husband's mess until July? What does your daughter do until then? How much more does she hear, knowing that you know. But that son's exams are worth her getting emotionally and psychologically thrashed!

 

Talk to son about it if need be. Explain to him that you love him, want him to be successful but that as a Mom you have to look out for their psychological welfare FIRST. including protecting daughter from abuse and him from you arguments which I can put money on are not helping your SON either.

 

Say you would do the same for him if the situation was reversed.

 

He's probably sick of you both fighting.

How did he react in 2011 with the split?

 

That does not make sense.

[jennaflorrie]

My Mom would argue with him too!

But it was like she was trying to educate him! She never put her foot down!

 

She never said: "stop treating our kid like that Right effing NOW and get into anger management/therapy/smarten the eff up or you are GONE."

 

NEVER.

 

And that made all the difference.

 

You can sit in negotiations and doing the "educational" After School Specials for DECADES with an abuser. He KNOWS what he's doing is crapola. That's why he does it when your back is turned! He doesn't need another lesson in the "basics of treating a child reasonably."

 

But as well, your daughter has been filled to the brim with this toxicity. She probably isn't going to be completely honest with you either. I say that because I wasn't with my mother. I couldn't trust her. She turned a blind eye/didn't believe the extent of it/saw what she described as "isolated incidents" and I "gave him Hell for it" type stuff for so long that she simply was NOT a reliable ally. I also never had her full attention because she was too busy trying to put the fire out with my father's latest antics. Instead of throwing out the idiot who kept starting them.

 

Your daughter is going to need A LOT of help sorting of her life-context. She is going to have a very hard time trusting. She might be waaayy too open or very dishonest. Any way you cut it, the years of abuse will have affected how she views relationships and who is trustworthy.

 

It's going to be VERY confusing to her no matter how she may confidently present herself over the next couple of years.

 

Start by reading about Boundaries (By Cloud and Townshend) and get into therapy yourself. Find out ways to solidly protect yourself against poor boundaries and manipulation.

 

How do I know you have poor boundaries? Because I would've tossed my husband's ass (donkey) out the door about five seconds after I heard that crap from him towards my daughter.

 

My husband would need to find God if he did that to my little girl. It's the only hope he'd have.

Because I know what it feels like.

I know what it does to little kids who look up to their Dads like superheroes.

And all little girls do.

 

I am so sorry you have been through this.....I am sad for the countless families and children that have suffered at the hands of those who were supposed to love them.

 

I was blessed to be a daddys girl, I idolised my dad and my dad always encouraged me and said I could do anything.

 

I feel so very sad to the core of my soul that my daughter has not had that.

 

My H says he has changed, he is a new man! But then when he knows I am sleeping after doing a night shift...he starts having a go at her. So, yes.....he obviously DOES know that I would not approve and he knows its wrong.

 

My poor D. I will look after her I promise you. I have always tried to give her double the love any mother could give. I have tried to be positive but I wish to God that I had seen my own personal light before 2011 and believe that there was a way i could be apart from My H without him having visitation and taking the kids away from my protection - even for the weekend.

 

I have been betweent he Devil and the deep blue sea.

 

But, I have to build D up now. Prob my son realises his dad is an idiot too.

 

Its going to be another tough year and I am not looking forward to the tremendous stresses ahead. I have family members who told me to "Go back to your husband, you knew what he was like when you married him" and family who have said "Marriage is for life" and "Oh he is a new man....wonderful".

 

The pressures have been immense. I feel like a one legged woman about to try and climb a mountain. But I have to climb that mountain for my childrens sake and there will be a great view at the top.

 

Bless you x

[dreamingoftigers]

Sorry if it seems I am hitting you over the head here.

 

I can deeply empathize with the urgency to take a stand against this stuff.

 

It is better late than never.

 

But it is best done now.

[jennaflorrie]

Sorry if it seems I am hitting you over the head here.

 

I can deeply empathize with the urgency to take a stand against this stuff.

 

It is better late than never.

 

But it is best done now.

 

No you are not. Thank you. I need a kick up the ass. x

[dreamingoftigers]

"you knew what he was like....blah blah blah."

 

And it wasn't okay to accept it back then.

It still isn't okay. And now there are kids in the mix.

 

So the actual message is: you are 20+ years late on kicking his ass (donkey) out the door.

 

"he's a new man." yes he gas graduated from physically abusing you to systemically emotionally abusing your daughter. Is it new? Maybe. Is it acceptable? NO.

 

"marriage is for life." No one says you HAVE to get a divorce. BUT a marriage should be for "life" not a "life-sentence."

 

IF there is any hope for the continuation of the marriage, it would require laying CLEARLY down the boundaries which you will and won't accept from him and standing immensely firm. Those boundaries also need to include the FIRM and PROVEN protection of your children for at LEAST A YEAR.

 

I don't think he'll pick it. I think he'll balk. I think he'll guilt you and blow smoke up your ass (donkey) about being better and promises etc etc etc.

 

Even if he does. You can hold firm and demand that he conclusively show you etc. And that you'll accept nothing less because you are a MOTHER first and not HIS mother.

 

My husband has been quite the asshat over the years (sigh). But he fought like a demon to stay married and for our kid.

 

We still have our issues. But I respect his ability 110% as a father.

 

Until you can respect your husband's ability 110% as a father, marriage reconciliation as a remote possibility should be off the table.

 

Ship that discussion to Pluto on the next NASA probe.

 

 

I am so sorry you have been through this.....I am sad for the countless families and children that have suffered at the hands of those who were supposed to love them.

 

I was blessed to be a daddys girl, I idolised my dad and my dad always encouraged me and said I could do anything.

 

I feel so very sad to the core of my soul that my daughter has not had that.

 

My H says he has changed, he is a new man! But then when he knows I am sleeping after doing a night shift...he starts having a go at her. So, yes.....he obviously DOES know that I would not approve and he knows its wrong.

 

My poor D. I will look after her I promise you. I have always tried to give her double the love any mother could give. I have tried to be positive but I wish to God that I had seen my own personal light before 2011 and believe that there was a way i could be apart from My H without him having visitation and taking the kids away from my protection - even for the weekend.

 

I have been betweent he Devil and the deep blue sea.

 

But, I have to build D up now. Prob my son realises his dad is an idiot too.

 

Its going to be another tough year and I am not looking forward to the tremendous stresses ahead. I have family members who told me to "Go back to your husband, you knew what he was like when you married him" and family who have said "Marriage is for life" and "Oh he is a new man....wonderful".

 

The pressures have been immense. I feel like a one legged woman about to try and climb a mountain. But I have to climb that mountain for my childrens sake and there will be a great view at the top.

 

Bless you x

[dreamingoftigers]

No you are not. Thank you. I need a kick up the ass. x

 

(Donkey)

[dreamingoftigers]

 

I have been betweent he Devil and the deep blue sea.

 

Its going to be another tough year and I am not looking forward to the tremendous stresses ahead. I have family members who told me to "Go back to your husband, you knew what he was like when you married him" and family who have said "Marriage is for life" and "Oh he is a new man....wonderful".

 

The pressures have been immense. I feel like a one legged woman about to try and climb a mountain. But I have to climb that mountain for my childrens sake and there will be a great view at the top.

 

Bless you x

 

Between the Devil and the deep blue sea:

 

Cruise lines make a helluva profit every year on the deep blue sea. Get a cruise ship and go in that direction.

 

The only cruise line I know that's had a Devil issue was Carnival.

 

Tremendous pressures: after a short period of intense grief that will last much shorter than you expect, you'll find that bit by bit things relax. All of a sudden you don't need to have him in the back of your head pushing you around. You'll start to own your own life. The tremendous pressure will drop, tremendously. Being alone is much easier to sort out than being with an asshat (donkey hat). Not having the constant anxiety and adrenaline, things will calm and be much more manageable.

 

I experienced it two years ago when H went to treatment and than again when I booted him out and we separated. I lost about 40 lbs just by not having him around eating junk food and offering me some all the time!

 

Relatives: you know what wondered thing I've discovered since having my marriage go wonky?

 

There's always a thousand people waiting to judge the choices you make with the state of your marriage, even if it has no real effect on them or anyone else. Some will judge you for divorcing. Some will judge you for staying married. Some will judge you if you need a break. Wherever you are in it, whatever you do in it, someone's judging you for it. Right now.

 

So just remember that at the end of the day, when the chorus dies down... You need to do what you can sleep at night with.

 

However, if that involves composing a musical, that's not nice. Don't do that. I hate musicals.

[jennaflorrie]

"you knew what he was like....blah blah blah."

 

And it wasn't okay to accept it back then.

It still isn't okay. And now there are kids in the mix.

 

So the actual message is: you are 20+ years late on kicking his ass (donkey) out the door.

 

"he's a new man." yes he gas graduated from physically abusing you to systemically emotionally abusing your daughter. Is it new? Maybe. Is it acceptable? NO.

 

"marriage is for life." No one says you HAVE to get a divorce. BUT a marriage should be for "life" not a "life-sentence."

 

IF there is any hope for the continuation of the marriage, it would require laying CLEARLY down the boundaries which you will and won't accept from him and standing immensely firm. Those boundaries also need to include the FIRM and PROVEN protection of your children for at LEAST A YEAR.

 

I don't think he'll pick it. I think he'll balk. I think he'll guilt you and blow smoke up your ass (donkey) about being better and promises etc etc etc.

 

Even if he does. You can hold firm and demand that he conclusively show you etc. And that you'll accept nothing less because you are a MOTHER first and not HIS mother.

 

My husband has been quite the asshat over the years (sigh). But he fought like a demon to stay married and for our kid.

 

We still have our issues. But I respect his ability 110% as a father.

 

Until you can respect your husband's ability 110% as a father, marriage reconciliation as a remote possibility should be off the table.

 

Ship that discussion to Pluto on the next NASA probe.

 

I have already been down the route of tellling him NO MORE getting at his D. I warned him last November when I caught him mouthing "I don't like you" at her behind my back..and I caught him...He was repentant about it, said he loved his D. blah blah blah

 

The sad thing is.....I cannot trust him. Hence me, kneeling on bathroom floor this morning, instead of sleeping in bed after night shift, trying to hear what was being said!!!

 

And how many times have I got to tell him? And yes he blows smoke up my donkey....."I love my D" and " I want to see her motivated" and " I am her Father, trying to get her going".

 

Its all a load of bull. He is just like a juvenile. I think he wants to be with me, because I am his mummy. He is afraid of the big bad world, he is used to having me there. I sat in church tonight thinking "God I just cannot take anymore of this"

 

He is in bed now....and so are the kids and I am here typing away, wishing that my H was far away. He clings on to me. Says all the right things to me, but yes.......now he is not abusing me it seems he thinks he can take things out verbally and emotionally on his D.

 

Pathetic.

 

OK. I will tell him this week. That I want to Separate.

 

Aarrggghhhhhhhhhh

 

yes. Seriously. Watch this space.

[TaraMaiden]

dreamingoftigers (or DoT as we affectionately call her) has actually been extremely gentle with you.

I would do a lot more than kick your ass if I was there.

 

So we make a good pair: DoT because she has a very deep and entrenched knowledge of mental and physical symptoms and attributes of destructive and controlling behaviour - truly, I don't know anyone else who knows as much as she does about such issues. She is almost certainly far more expert than some so called 'trained professionals'.

 

And I...?

I'm the thug, I'm the hoodlum, I'm the one who would be dragging your husband out of that bed, right now, by his scrawny neck, kicking him out of the door and telling him - RIGHT NOW - to never come back, ever, and to look out for the D papers, because they'd be with him very soon.

 

Don't tell him 'later in the week'. Tell him as he's leaving, tomorrow, that this door is now permanently closed to him, and you don't want him to come back, ever.

And shut the door.

Bolt it, lock it and change the locks later.

Forget 'separation'. This is the end.

 

 

Advise your daughter that you have kicked him out, and discuss plans with her for moving forward.

Then discuss what you have decided with your son.

 

But forget Later this week' lady.

 

If you don't do it now, you will never be mad enough again.

Mad?? You should be fuming! Possessed! utterly and totally furious!!

 

You see what a manipulative bully he is??

Assuming he still even has a role in the household!! A household he is hardly ever in!!

 

Holy mother of....you have to churn that anger up and use it to propel your actions!!

God, you'd better!

 

Otherwise your sorry donkey's going to find it hard to sit.

[dreamingoftigers]

He may very well feel that way. (the bolded)

We can't read his mind.

BUT that is not the ISSUE.

The issue is that his behaviour, regardless of his feelings, are eroding her self-esteem.

 

Her self-esteem is not an acceptable sacrifice so that he can behave as he pleases to "motivate" her.

 

Plus, honestly, maybe he needs to pull his head out of his ass (donkey). (hmm...ass' ass?) and figure out that what he is doing as a parent is only serving to undermine her security, lose your respect and break his daughter down in a way that is toxic and unviable.

 

Give him an early birthday present of "Toxic Parents" (it's a book, one of the first self-help I ever read. I digested it and underlined the Heck out of it in 48 hours. I'm sure he would consider it a lovely paperweight. Or he might read it. Whatever. If you so feel the need to correct him, you might as well take a break from it and let the book do it.

 

You might want to read it and give a copy to your son and daughter so that they (and you) will know a really great reference of what is Toxic to children. I found it really vindicated me. Made me feel like someone, somewhere GOT IT and all of those platitudes of "you have to listen/respect him, he's your father" were really useless when my father didn't respect himself enough to behave like a father who could be respected. (run-on)

 

Truly, honestly. The vast majority of these guys KNOW how they SHOULD handle themselves but lose it when they aren't watched like a hawk or trapped like a rat.

 

My father, for instance, is actually GREAT with my daughter. Really a great ally for her. Granted he's older and he's also had plenty of therapy now. BUT he also knows that one small step across that line will terminate his contact with her. He EVER lays a hand on her or talks to her like she is garbage in ANY way, he better find God too. And not just because of me. My husband would be more than happy to take care of business in that department.

 

He certainly won't find his little granddaughter around him.

 

Real Dads protect their children's (abd grandchildren's) heart. Very closely.

There are no blessings for breaking down your children. NONE.

 

It has no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

For anyone involved.

 

I have already been down the route of tellling him NO MORE getting at his D. I warned him last November when I caught him mouthing "I don't like you" at her behind my back..and I caught him...He was repentant about it, said he loved his D. blah blah blah

 

The sad thing is.....I cannot trust him. Hence me, kneeling on bathroom floor this morning, instead of sleeping in bed after night shift, trying to hear what was being said!!!

 

And how many times have I got to tell him? And yes he blows smoke up my donkey....."I love my D" and " I want to see her motivated" and " I am her Father, trying to get her going".

 

Its all a load of bull. He is just like a juvenile. I think he wants to be with me, because I am his mummy. He is afraid of the big bad world, he is used to having me there. I sat in church tonight thinking "God I just cannot take anymore of this"

 

He is in bed now....and so are the kids and I am here typing away, wishing that my H was far away. He clings on to me. Says all the right things to me, but yes.......now he is not abusing me it seems he thinks he can take things out verbally and emotionally on his D.

 

Pathetic.

 

OK. I will tell him this week. That I want to Separate.

 

Aarrggghhhhhhhhhh

 

yes. Seriously. Watch this space.

[jennaflorrie]

dreamingoftigers (or DoT as we affectionately call her) has actually been extremely gentle with you.

I would do a lot more than kick your ass if I was there.

 

So we make a good pair: DoT because she has a very deep and entrenched knowledge of mental and physical symptoms and attributes of destructive and controlling behaviour - truly, I don't know anyone else who knows as much as she does about such issues. She is almost certainly far more expert than some so called 'trained professionals'.

 

And I...?

I'm the thug, I'm the hoodlum, I'm the one who would be dragging your husband out of that bed, right now, by his scrawny neck, kicking him out of the door and telling him - RIGHT NOW - to never come back, ever, and to look out for the D papers, because they'd be with him very soon.

 

Don't tell him 'later in the week'. Tell him as he's leaving, tomorrow, that this door is now permanently closed to him, and you don't want him to come back, ever.

And shut the door.

Bolt it, lock it and change the locks later.

Forget 'separation'. This is the end.

 

 

Advise your daughter that you have kicked him out, and discuss plans with her for moving forward.

Then discuss what you have decided with your son.

 

But forget Later this week' lady.

 

If you don't do it now, you will never be mad enough again.

Mad?? You should be fuming! Possessed! utterly and totally furious!!

 

You see what a manipulative bully he is??

Assuming he still even has a role in the household!! A household he is hardly ever in!!

 

Holy mother of....you have to churn that anger up and use it to propel your actions!!

God, you'd better!

 

Otherwise your sorry donkey's going to find it hard to sit.

 

 

Hey come on over and give me a hand chucking him out! LOL

 

Yes I could do that but my Son would be upset......standing at the window then angry with me....because him and his dad do sport together.

 

His dad is an idiot and I am sure that my Son realises that, but he has a better bond than the non existent one that H has with his D.

 

I truly would love to go up those stairs now and fling him out the door, he would be crying, upset....saying that he loved me....blah blah blah.

 

But I have to keep calm. Wait now till he is off......OK...tomorrow. Tell him I want separation.

 

Trouble is, he prob will refuse to go off to work, insist on staying and talking and wringing my heart out a bit more.

 

I will have to be very very strong. What happened today - when I was supposedly asleep in bed - was sneaky of him. But something woke me up, even though I was very tired from working 12 hour shift and I usually sleep like a rock. I could hear his bloody voice droning on and on and on.

 

Deep down I knew he was having a lecture/go at his own D.

 

I just wish he would bugger off and never come back.

 

Thanks to D of T for being gentle. I know people will judge me for whatever I do, but I just cannot go on with this any more.

[dreamingoftigers]

Honestly, I didn't realize he was there sleeping right now when was posting earlier.

 

A few years ago when I was traumatized by my husband's monstrous personality, I would've let him sleep too and finish the day there. Maybe given him 48 hours to pack.

 

Tara, I would honestly say out of anger and righteousness that she should throw him out half-asleep and say "because EFF YOU, THAT'S WHY."

 

BUT the reality here is that this guy has a history of a bad temper and being physically abusive to the OP. As much as getting him out and not letting him back is SUPER-IMPORTANT. I would suggest given the history that she handle it a little differently, more planned and executed. In a way where the kids don't have to potentially defend Mom's or their own safety against his potential explosion. Plus, I'm sure Jen doesn't want social services involved innany capacity if the kids have to call the police.

 

(this is of course a suggestion)

 

I think he can finish his time there this bit (barring any serious or ridiculous instances). Then when he goes. Take a few days (or whatever) off of work. Pack his crap. Put it in storage. Change your locks. Talk with your kids about the situation. Give him the address to the storage. Tell him he has 14 or 30 days to get it (whatever).

 

Concretely explain why. Tell him he is no longer welcome. Commence legally from there.

 

And the only reason I say "separation" is that, due to her faith, she feels the divorce is not workable within her value system. If a separation affords roughly the same result, than that can be a much more workable plan to OP.

 

A lot of these things appear "BLACK" and "WHITE" when you are in the muddle of them. If believing she NEEDS to stay in the marriage to protect her faith, that may freeze any momentum to secure the situation at all.

 

And honestly. It prob only a matter of time before he files....or cheats, giving her justification in her faith to file.

 

dreamingoftigers (or DoT as we affectionately call her) has actually been extremely gentle with you.

I would do a lot more than kick your ass if I was there.

 

So we make a good pair: DoT because she has a very deep and entrenched knowledge of mental and physical symptoms and attributes of destructive and controlling behaviour - truly, I don't know anyone else who knows as much as she does about such issues. She is almost certainly far more expert than some so called 'trained professionals'.

 

And I...?

I'm the thug, I'm the hoodlum, I'm the one who would be dragging your husband out of that bed, right now, by his scrawny neck, kicking him out of the door and telling him - RIGHT NOW - to never come back, ever, and to look out for the D papers, because they'd be with him very soon.

 

Don't tell him 'later in the week'. Tell him as he's leaving, tomorrow, that this door is now permanently closed to him, and you don't want him to come back, ever.

And shut the door.

Bolt it, lock it and change the locks later.

Forget 'separation'. This is the end.

 

 

Advise your daughter that you have kicked him out, and discuss plans with her for moving forward.

Then discuss what you have decided with your son.

 

But forget Later this week' lady.

 

If you don't do it now, you will never be mad enough again.

Mad?? You should be fuming! Possessed! utterly and totally furious!!

 

You see what a manipulative bully he is??

Assuming he still even has a role in the household!! A household he is hardly ever in!!

 

Holy mother of....you have to churn that anger up and use it to propel your actions!!

God, you'd better!

 

Otherwise your sorry donkey's going to find it hard to sit.

[TaraMaiden]

See? I told you she's classic!

 

I get the caution. I get the strategy. I get the planning to make it 100% watertight and right.

And I see how it's probably best not to drag him down the stairs by his ankle so his balls scrape every step.

Tempting though it may be....

 

But I'd still like to come and help be strong for you.

 

because please know without any shadow of a doubt that I do realise it takes strength. Mental strength. The Will to Make It Happen.

 

Please do this.

 

PLEASE.

let him go tomorrow, then immediately arrange the change of locks and removal of ALL his stuff.

 

Just as DoT has suggested.....