Abused 22 years, then he changed.

[jennaflorrie]

Thanks for the support

[TaraMaiden]

jenna, if you cave, and capitulate, anf decide that, well....maybe things are going well after all.... maybe he HAS changed....maybe, maybe, maybe....

 

Remember first what his motivation is.

To keep you in a position he can ultimately control and manipulate.

To do the same thing to his daughter - thus 'teaching' he the kind of husband she will end up with....

 

And finally, remember that all you ever felt for him, has died.

There is no love there, no desire, no commitment, no yearning to be a couple again - as if (I question) you ever were.....?

 

Thursday is not far off.

I pray you will find the strength and fortitude to tell him to leave, and advise him to expect papers soon....

Please, for all that you perceive as precious in your life, do NOT weaken!!

[jennaflorrie]

Thanks Tara.

 

He is certainly putting everything in to being the good dad and wonderful husband - today, he rang up company to sort phone out and he made the kids lunch while I slept. He has been chatting away to his D and she has been chatting away to him.....but when she referred to him when talking to me she called him by his name she didn't say Dad.

 

My S has been playing computer games with friends online and he is happy enough. I feel guilty that I moved all the way here from his home and friends and now I will be kicking his dad out. But S is 16 and can stay with his dad (when he is off from work) anytime.

 

The house needs to be finished - its a project house - I would have either the choice of finishing off the house, when he was gone...or, selling the house or...H coming over on days off to HELP with the house until it was finished....but that option would be difficult because I would be seeing a lot of him.

 

He has been sat on settee most of day. Earlier in the kitchen he said "Hug me" and he put his arms around me and said "That's nice". I felt nothing.

 

I do feel very sorry for him, feel guilty about putting the hatchet to the marriage, final CHOP.....yes, doubts still. But I cannot weaken.

 

I am thinking about the future, about H finding someone he can start all over again with. Someone who CAN love him.

 

I am thinking about me...my future.

 

H is being as good as gold. Its like he KNOWS that I don't want him, so he layers it all on thick. But of course, once I started to trust him, he could easily revert back to type.

[jennaflorrie]

H is sitting on the settee with his D.

 

They seem to be getting on very well.

 

H has been calm and nice. Kind. Supportive, understanding.

 

But I haven't changed my mind. I am going to tell him its over. Follow my gut instinct. H will say he is broken hearted and will only ever love me....but he said that so many times before and then proceeded to tell me to F....off and F,...... you and snarl in my face and push me around. So much for his kind of love.

 

And if he has changed.......which I wonder just how much by considering the episodes these past 12 months - its still too late for me. I have changed too.

 

Well actually, I just WOKE UP.

[2sunny]

Intent is everything.

 

If you intend to leave (or just KNOWING your heart's not in the M) - then by staying you are living your lie.

 

You want the M to be based on lies and pretending? Go ahead and stay - but don't call it a marriage - call it a convenience that isn't based on your truth.

[TaraMaiden]

So today is Thursday, right....?

 

Even if it's in the USA (You're between 5 & 8 hours behind me, time-wise) you should be dropping the D-Bomb today - Right?

 

Awaiting confirmation of sensible and logical action taken.....

[2sunny]

Here where I am Thursday is almost ending.

 

Any update?

[jennaflorrie]

I talked to H this morning, briefly....he asked what was wrong. I told him too much damage had been done. I said "Its like if someone has committed adultery, you may forgive them, but you cannot forget" He said "That was a different man" and "I know I cant do anything more.....I just cant, I have changed, I have done my best to show you that"

 

Kids came in.....H went out....waiting to speak to him when he gets back.

[2sunny]

That looks much different than simply stating your intentions.

 

It's over - there's your things, I'm ready for you to move and the M is over...sends a clear message.

[TaraMaiden]

I talked to H this morning, briefly....he asked what was wrong. I told him too much damage had been done. I said "Its like if someone has committed adultery, you may forgive them, but you cannot forget" He said "That was a different man" and "I know I cant do anything more.....I just cant, I have changed, I have done my best to show you that"

 

Kids came in.....H went out....waiting to speak to him when he gets back.

 

You're pussy-footing and weakening.

Just face him square on and tell him:

 

"It hasn't been enough. I knew it never could be. Our marriage died long ago, and nothing could work to revive it.

it's over. I'm filing all the paperwork tomorrow.

I don't want you back here any more."

 

Go for it.

You have to be clear and unequivocal.

Otherwise (and I'm trying to be fair here) you're just dishing him up schytt and telling him it's apple pie.

Be fair to the guy.

Make it real and final.

[2sunny]

And it's important to take the lead and guide the conversation.

 

First, tell your kids to leave the house - you have something important to discuss. Then sit down and map out your plan to hubby.

 

Do not waiver... Stay focused on sending a clear message with as few words to convey your intent.

[jennaflorrie]

Hi.....sorry, meant to get back here earlier but been caught up. When I talked to H yesterday morning...he disappeared! Had no word from him for 3 hours - then he rang me from his parents house to say his Dad had been taken in to hospital! I didn't know if he was just trying to avoid the inevitable - but I spoke to my Mother in law and H father had indeed been taken in with Cardiac Probs. He has had a similar admission in the past - 4 years ago - but been fine since.

 

Anyway, H has not talked to me since then. He is staying with his mum now and working the next 4 days - so he isn't due back until Wednesday.

 

Glad he is out of the way, FIL is stable, not sure if H was exaggerating to avoid ME. But, I will wait till I know FIL is home and OK, speak to H as soon as possible.

 

My H is like my child. I have realised that now. That is the sort of relationship I have with him. It has been hard to get rid of him, because How can you kick your little child out into the cruel hard world.

 

H puts his little boy lost face on and cries and I am his mommy.

 

Sad. True.

 

Anyway....I have a breathing space for next 4 days which is GREAT....see how FIL is and speak to H as soon as possible.

 

Thanks everyone for your encouragement, means SO MUCH.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Jenna,

 

I have been reading your thread and I see the conflict you are having with breaking up with your husband. The push and pull and the crazy making sure do take their toll. It is time to stop the madness. Your sister is right.

 

I see that it must be difficult because the husband you once wished for is here (at least some of the time) but its not enough for you now, with so much water under the bridge. You tolerated a lot of stuff and tried and tried, but everyone has a point of no return that once reached, you are just done. You got there last year but still tried to make it work. You have done everything you can. It's time to throw in the towel.

 

His changes are still positive they are not a waste...

 

It's good he is trying to step it up and be a good father, for him any your children.

 

It's good he is trying to be a good husband and person, for him.

 

It's good he's trying, for him.

 

It's ok for you to divorce, it's ok for you to be done. You have given it your best shot, but it's too late.

 

On a separate note...children are vulnerable to their parents distructive actions, words and behaviors, no matter how old they are. Children will try over and over to get their parent to show love. Do not mistake a single instance of them getting along as erasing the years of abuse. It does not.

 

Also, you show your children what is acceptable, by how you let people treat you. Ask yourself this...what would you say to your daughter if she were in your shoes? What would you say to your son? What would you say to them if they were acting like your husband?

 

I think you will have your hands full with the fallout of the emotional abuse on your children, (no matter how he is acting today). Hopefully your husband will continue to step up and help with their healing after you break up.

 

Good luck.

[jennaflorrie]

Yes, too much water under the bridge.

 

Today, my brother came over, we were talking about divorce...he said that parents should stay together and work things out. He said that one man had a daughter, who when she was 20 sent her dad a card saying "Thank you for not divorcing mum", her mum had been pretty nasty to her father for years.....they lived half the time apart (bit lke me and my H), I said to my brother "Well, I think the Daughter was selfish, why didn't she think of her dads happiness?" "No, no, no" my brother said "Our lives are practically over, we have to think of our children, they come first and they want their parents together "

 

I said "what if one parent is nasty to the kids...." he said "Then you have to talk, sort it out"

 

About my H last night......he said..."Yes, he has changed, YOU have to nurture it now, take him to church, encourage him, help him to grow, like a flower"

 

so its my responsibility now, to nurture this new man!!!

 

Easier said than done.

 

Family - except my sister = very opposed to Divorce.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

In this case, your parents, siblings, neighbors,church, dry cleaners...they will get over it.

 

Your children and you need an emotionally safe place.

[TaraMaiden]

Yes, too much water under the bridge.

 

Today, my brother came over, we were talking about divorce...he said that parents should stay together and work things out. He said that one man had a daughter, who when she was 20 sent her dad a card saying "Thank you for not divorcing mum", her mum had been pretty nasty to her father for years.....they lived half the time apart (bit lke me and my H), I said to my brother "Well, I think the Daughter was selfish, why didn't she think of her dads happiness?" "No, no, no" my brother said "Our lives are practically over, we have to think of our children, they come first and they want their parents together "

 

I said "what if one parent is nasty to the kids...." he said "Then you have to talk, sort it out"

 

About my H last night......he said..."Yes, he has changed, YOU have to nurture it now, take him to church, encourage him, help him to grow, like a flower"

 

so its my responsibility now, to nurture this new man!!!

 

Easier said than done.

 

Family - except my sister = very opposed to Divorce.

 

Sorry. I don't give a damn about the objections of others.

I've learnt all too often, in the past (much to my cost) that to live my life and comply with the views of others still leads to my unhappiness, because after all, it's doing what they want - not what I want.

 

File for divorce while he is away.

Tell him that there is no point in his returning.

 

If he kicks up a fuss about your timing, tell him there never would be a good time, and frankly, you've already delayed this by 2 years.

[2sunny]

If you can't bring yourself to tell him to leave (normal for abuse victims) - then it may be time for you to be the one to leave.

 

It may be your only way to make that first move.

 

IF you continue the way you've been doing this - something will always stand in your way of freedom.

[jennaflorrie]

If you can't bring yourself to tell him to leave (normal for abuse victims) - then it may be time for you to be the one to leave.

 

It may be your only way to make that first move.

 

IF you continue the way you've been doing this - something will always stand in your way of freedom.

 

I cannot leave this house as it is a project house I am in the middle of doing up. I suppose I could put it on the market, cut my losses and buy something small for me and the kids?

 

But until this house is completed or until it is sold - I would have to stay here. All my money is tied up here and my H spends half the time away anyway working. So he could stay with his parents. Brokenhearted. But he could stay with his parents.

 

He said that he just doesn't know how he would cope if we broke up. He said....last time we discussed it....that he would not want anyone else and would stay alone. He also wouldn't even want to speak to me, because it would hurt too much.

 

Tara - deep down that is how I feel. How dare they? They haven't had to live with him all these years! Yes he may have changed....but what if he reverts back? He has already told me to PISS off in front of our son....couple of weeks ago. He laughed at his daughter 3 weeks ago...she was leaning on the floor and bum cleavage was showing....he said to our son, sat by him, "You could park a bike in there", D heard and was really upset at them laughing AT her.

 

D dyed her hair, bit of colour left on her scalp (she is just a teen after all!) H said to S in the car, on the way to family party (3 weeks ago) "You better make sure you don't sit down....with that dye on your scalp" again he laughed at her with our S. I thought that was mean.

 

He has helped D with Cv, she has kissed him on the head and said Thanks Dad. But the trust has gone.

 

And how much of it is for show? Thing is what if he did get ill and die? He has been diabetic for years. Would I feel to blame? Would I feel like I killed him?

 

He is pitiful, I feel pity for him. He is like some sad little animal - sat alone in the corner, your look at them and think "poor thing".

 

I know he has come to church with me....but twice he has just walked off - once after church, he didn't like what we were discussing, so he just walked off home (3 mile walk in the rain), and another time, D didn't agree with something he said.....so H said "Stop the car" got out and walked off home....again. So these are the things that are still happening.

 

Because of all the past abuse I have very little tolerance for ANY, not the slightest.

 

I do forgive, but I cannot forget. I know I could try and help him grow....cultivate him like a flower....help him improve. but I just don't know if I have the stomach for it!!!

 

My dad thinks a marriage does not die. That once you divorce you can never marry again - until former spouse dead.

 

Lots of pressure points, but at the end of the day....I have to do what I feel is right.

[TaraMaiden]

Jenna:

With the greatest of respect: Quit pointing out details.

We really don't need to know, and you don't have to keep cataloguing them, in justification.

 

 

The guy's a jerk.

Superficially he's implemented changes, but at the core, he's still the childish, juvenile idiot of old.

 

And frankly, this - ?

 

He said that he just doesn't know how he would cope if we broke up. He said....last time we discussed it....that he would not want anyone else and would stay alone. He also wouldn't even want to speak to me, because it would hurt too much.

 

Oh, REALLY??

 

WHO CARES - ?!?

 

How he may feel - is HIS problem!

What he's doing is Emotional Blackmail - "If you do this, I will then feel *like this* because of you - and it will be all your fault!"

 

He's manipulating you!

Tell him to grow up and deal with it!

 

And I'll tell you something else:

He's moulding your son into a copy of him.

he is nurturing your son with the same behaviour pattern, the same respect and consideration for you and your daughter, that he has demonstrated.

And your son is lapping it up.

 

If your son objects to this separation - tell him he's more than welcome to go live with his dad - any time he wants.

Because his father is doing a great job on creating his very own "Mini-Me".

 

I know you're concerned about the treatment your daughter is receiving, but I'm under the impression that as your son gets on better with his dad, that's at least a 'good thing'.

 

It isn't.

And in fact, I think your son is being just as 'damaged' by your H as your daughter has been.

 

And your son will treat HIS wife and (possible) daughter in the same way.

Edited July 21, 2013 by TaraMaiden

[2sunny]

You continue to give evidence of why you need to divorce. But until you take action it won't happen.

 

There will ALWAYS be a reason to delay. It's just that way.

 

It's up to you to just make it happen. The only time is now.

[jennaflorrie]

Tonight I feel confused. H rang D on her mobile. They were chatting happily.

 

But my Son talked to him on phone briefly, and he couldn't wait to get off.

 

I didn't talk to him at all.

 

Words for today are "Roll the Dice, come on Roll the dice"

 

!! Well, it is a gamble isn't it? To end up along at 50, could end up living in some crappy house....no money......alone.....regretful......(fear side talking) or could end up............with a 6 And that is HAPPY, with that man I love....or someone else I love.....feeling glad that I left. H with someone new who can love HIM.

 

So the dice are in my hand....I just got to throw them.

 

Its either that or I stay here, with him. And in 20 years time regret that I didn't take that chance.

[jennaflorrie]

Jenna:

With the greatest of respect: Quit pointing out details.

We really don't need to know, and you don't have to keep cataloguing them, in justification.

 

 

The guy's a jerk.

Superficially he's implemented changes, but at the core, he's still the childish, juvenile idiot of old.

 

And frankly, this - ?

 

 

 

Oh, REALLY??

 

WHO CARES - ?!?

 

How he may feel - is HIS problem!

What he's doing is Emotional Blackmail - "If you do this, I will then feel *like this* because of you - and it will be all your fault!"

 

He's manipulating you!

Tell him to grow up and deal with it!

 

And I'll tell you something else:

He's moulding your son into a copy of him.

he is nurturing your son with the same behaviour pattern, the same respect and consideration for you and your daughter, that he has demonstrated.

And your son is lapping it up.

 

If your son objects to this separation - tell him he's more than welcome to go live with his dad - any time he wants.

Because his father is doing a great job on creating his very own "Mini-Me".

 

I know you're concerned about the treatment your daughter is receiving, but I'm under the impression that as your son gets on better with his dad, that's at least a 'good thing'.

 

It isn't.

And in fact, I think your son is being just as 'damaged' by your H as your daughter has been.

 

And your son will treat HIS wife and (possible) daughter in the same way.

 

I got to roll the dice Tara. Just got to roll the dice. Its a chance isn't it? For happiness?

[2sunny]

My gut says its going to be easier for you to stay and just keep complaining.

 

You know what? That was me 8 years ago. I was with him longer than you.

 

But I pulled that trigger and I now know freedom!

 

I won't ever again consider spending any time when a man doesn't honor and respect me. Life is too short to waste one minute allowing others to treat me unkindly!

 

Yes, just like the way I used to live, YOU ARE ALLOWING it just by staying. And just like me, I had no one to blame but me for wasting more than 20 years with a man that didn't know how to honor, love or respect me!

 

We had it ALL! It LOOKED perfect to everyone! But you know what? It was COMPLETELY worth leaving - because now I feel good about me. I love myself enough to never live with verbal abuse or any kind of abuse ever again!

 

My family understands now. My religion doesn't matter - I highly doubt God would think I need to stay with a man that causes such deep harm to me!!!

 

I don't care what others think - I KNEW for myself it was wrong to stay! He killed the spirit inside me! It took a lot of time and help to get myself back on track!

 

It's been worth it! I FEEL FREE!

 

You can stay and feel stuck, but if you do, quit complaining for YOUR choices!

 

You have the choice to leave - yet you keep delaying your freedom.

 

I pray you get some courage and strength.

 

You seem to dream up any reason to delay - so - for me, it just doesn't look like you will ever leave.

 

Maybe it's just not bad ENOUGH for you to make change happen...?

 

It's only up to you.

 

One thing is sad to me - you've now talked to lots of family and friends about it - and that's disrespectful to HIM and the marriage.

 

You want to talk about your marriage? Talk to YOUR HUSBAND!

Edited July 22, 2013 by 2sunny

[TaraMaiden]

I got to roll the dice Tara. Just got to roll the dice. Its a chance isn't it? For happiness?

 

Jeesh, for chrissakes, jenna, schytt, or get off the damn pot! Quit TALKING about rolling the phekkin' dice, and roll the damn things!

 

I agree with 2sunny:

 

You're actually being a bit of a drama queen about this:

 

You know how long it took me my H and I to decide we needed to split and divorce, after the realisation that it was over (after 24 years) came through?

 

6 days.

 

SIX - DAYS.

 

At this rate, you'll be moaning about it for longer than you will have been married.

 

And you're a longer time dead, hun.

[jennaflorrie]

Jeesh, for chrissakes, jenna, schytt, or get off the damn pot! Quit TALKING about rolling the phekkin' dice, and roll the damn things!

 

I agree with 2sunny:

 

You're actually being a bit of a drama queen about this:

 

You know how long it took me my H and I to decide we needed to split and divorce, after the realisation that it was over (after 24 years) came through?

 

6 days.

 

 

SIX - DAYS.

 

At this rate, you'll be moaning about it for longer than you will have been married.

 

And you're a longer time dead, hun.

 

 

What about the fekkin house though? Its a project I cant do on my own, I suppose I would have to sell it. If it would sell.

 

I woke up this morning and thought "I am nearly 50, H has changed.....who wants all that aggro...moving out...starting again....he is only here half the time anyway"? Then I got in the car, took D to work, she said her Dad was an idiot. And there's me thinking they are starting to get on.

 

Now I am awake. Brain charged up. I think "Got to leave this marriage, so dam what if I am nearly 50!!!!!? Aggro? Yes, I can do it"!!!

 

I am a bit constipated Tara.

 

I think too much that's the trouble. H is still away, not back till Wednesday. If I am going to do this, I gotta do this Tomorrow!!!!

 

Family yesterday came around and were talking about us all going on holiday together in August. "Oh ..........(my hubby) will love it there".....I looked at them and thought .....................He wont be there.

 

TARA - 6 days that is great....but did your H go all soppy on you? Did he weep, cry, tell you he would die without you? It must be so much easier if they agree to go.