Why do men treat women so badly?

[suladas]

What is being treated badly? Any examples?

 

Name calling/swearing at you, being ignored or only contacted when they want something, I could go on and on but i'd rather not say all the examples I experienced.

[suladas]

I wish I could just wave a magic wand and then it would all be better for all of us, even those who don't post on this forum and are suffering in silence. But, that's how the world is I guess. We seem to be condemmed to repeat our mistakes in life.

 

I really wish we could to. But I learned a lot from it. I learned to not let anyone treat me poorly, stand up for myself instead of worrying about rocking the boat. I learned to not be worried about walking away from a bad relationship or situation. I learned that I shouldn't make excuses for why I allow someone to treat me poorly, there is no reason for it despite what they might have gone through. And most importantly, I have to let go of any anger/bitterness from it and not carry it forward to future relationships because they don't deserve it, and it will only hurt me if I don't let it go.

 

I will say without a doubt I will not let it happen to me again

[Eternal Sunshine]

What is being treated badly? Any examples?

 

 

The way you treat me on LS

 

 

[somedude81]

Name calling/swearing at you, being ignored or only contacted when they want something, I could go on and on but i'd rather not say all the examples I experienced.

Yeah, I don't see why anyone would put up with those things.

 

As desperate as I am for a GF, I wouldn't put up with a girl who insults or ignores me.

[somedude81]

The way you treat me on LS

 

 

Who were you again?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[suladas]

Yeah, I don't see why anyone would put up with those things.

 

As desperate as I am for a GF, I wouldn't put up with a girl who insults or ignores me.

 

I wish I could say the same, but when you love someone it is much easier said then done, and it was done during the BU and after, not during the relationship. Although I have told myself I will not tolerate it again, I hope if it happens I stick to it.

[tbf]

We seem to be condemmed to repeat our mistakes in life.

Why are you condemned to dating people who treat you like crap? Why can't you find men who treat you well?

 

I don't understand this at all. It's your life. Take charge of it. It's not complex.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Stuff happens in life that is beyond our control, but then there are those who seem totally invested in inhabiting the role of "victim."

 

It's frustrating.

 

I have to add - "men" do NOT treat women badly. Yes, lots of men treat women badly and the reverse is true, and then there are those who just treat other people in general like crap.

 

Why the big attachment to vilifying the other sex???

[KungFuJoe]

I honestly don't know what to say when I hear these stories. I know men AND women can be cruel. I know I would never do anything to purposely hurt someone and I don't have a cruel bone in my body.

 

But you wanna talk cruel...a former friend of mine would openly tell her husband, right before going to Vegas with my wife and I, that she was going to cheat on him. He would laugh it off and tell her to quick joking around...only she wasn't joking. I got to see first hand while she flirted with a guy at the Marquee, even going so far as to kiss the guy in front of us. She didn't take it any further, but that wasn't the first time we'd seen her kiss another guy...and we're pretty sure she's cheated on him all the way.

 

That same friend had a friend who had a mister in Vegas. She was married with kids, but would fake a business trip to Vegas several times a year to meet up with the guy.

 

It goes both ways, that's for sure.

[Titania22]

My daughter brought up much the same topic to me last night, with much the same points as the OP made.

 

She is 17 and doesn't accept bad behaviour from the boys her age, but even so she is already sick of the thoughtless things they say.

 

I don't think it's as simple as finding a "nice" guy, because I think genuinely nice guys are extremely rare. I suspect alot of guys suspect they are nice, but they are not really. Not unless being a "nice" guy includes criticizing, (or making those little annoying comments that slowly erode someones self esteem).

 

And saying men do it because it works, seems foolish to me, given the large number of 40+ women who have had enough of men completely.

 

Which may not seem bad to some of you men, but my daughter at 17yrs old is at that point now. She even wants to try and see if she is a lesbian (not because she has any strong inner knowing that she is one), but purely because she is so fed up with the male sex, but doesn't want to live a loveless life.

 

I understand her frustration, I have felt it myself. I don't want to be with someone who is always trying to change me, because they don't think I am good enough as I am. I love who I am and I love my life, why should I accept someone into my life that isn't prepared to love me as I am without trying to change me.

 

I feel I am not the only woman who thinks her only choices are to stay single or to accept a man who will always be looking for and pointing out things he considers faults.

[outsidethebox]

yeah, I've never heard of a woman doing that.

[MoreThanThat]

I don't think it is gender-specific. I've seen female friends treat men poorly too.

 

I have zero tolerance for bad behavior in any form. When there is a sign of it, I close the door and will usually explain why. I do not reopen it. Fortunately, I've been on the receiving end only a few times.

[Mr_Flay]

Why do men turn into jerks? From what I've gathered, many jerks were formerly so called "nice guys", who wanted to treat women well and respect their feelings. Then they saw that women took advantage of them, and that women in general gravitate towards the cocky types. So they made a 180-degree turn and started treating women badly, which got them more sex initially and allowed them to shield their emotional vulnerabilities with macho posturing. The initial success compounded that sort of behaviour, and there you have it! A jerk who then posts on message boards: "I used to be a nice guy and women treated me like a doormat, but now I'm being a bad boy and they're all over me."

 

I think women should collectively boycott bad guys instead of rewarding them with sex. That's the only way to eradicate such behaviour.

[KungFuJoe]

I don't buy it. A "nice" guy who never got laid is not going to magically turn into a "jerk" who gets laid.

 

First off...people don't really change (unless it's for very dramatic and traumatic reasons) so if you were originally a nice guy, then you'd have to put on a "fake" bad guy persona and most people can see that coming a mile away.

 

Second of all...the "bad" guy routine only works if you're good looking and have natural charisma. Otherwise you're just a creepy jerk.

 

And assuming the nice guy was already good looking and had charisma...well...he's not going to be complaining about lack of women.

[suladas]

My daughter brought up much the same topic to me last night, with much the same points as the OP made.

 

She is 17 and doesn't accept bad behaviour from the boys her age, but even so she is already sick of the thoughtless things they say.

 

I don't think it's as simple as finding a "nice" guy, because I think genuinely nice guys are extremely rare. I suspect alot of guys suspect they are nice, but they are not really. Not unless being a "nice" guy includes criticizing, (or making those little annoying comments that slowly erode someones self esteem).

 

And saying men do it because it works, seems foolish to me, given the large number of 40+ women who have had enough of men completely.

 

Which may not seem bad to some of you men, but my daughter at 17yrs old is at that point now. She even wants to try and see if she is a lesbian (not because she has any strong inner knowing that she is one), but purely because she is so fed up with the male sex, but doesn't want to live a loveless life.

 

I understand her frustration, I have felt it myself. I don't want to be with someone who is always trying to change me, because they don't think I am good enough as I am. I love who I am and I love my life, why should I accept someone into my life that isn't prepared to love me as I am without trying to change me.

 

I feel I am not the only woman who thinks her only choices are to stay single or to accept a man who will always be looking for and pointing out things he considers faults.

 

I would agree it's rare, as everyone does have their faults. But I can sincerely say IMO that i'm a nice guy, and so far it has not worked out too well. A lot of guys generally are happy with who they are with I think, i've had a women i'm with say she wants to loose a few pounds and say it when I mean it, she is perfect the way she is. I do get it though, I see how most guys treat women, including my friends, and ya I don't get a lot of it. But it can be the other way around to.

 

I think it's really unfortunate, especially at a young age how poorly your daughter views men.

[Mr_Flay]

I don't buy it. A "nice" guy who never got laid is not going to magically turn into a "jerk" who gets laid.

 

First off...people don't really change (unless it's for very dramatic and traumatic reasons) so if you were originally a nice guy, then you'd have to put on a "fake" bad guy persona and most people can see that coming a mile away.

 

Second of all...the "bad" guy routine only works if you're good looking and have natural charisma. Otherwise you're just a creepy jerk.

 

And assuming the nice guy was already good looking and had charisma...well...he's not going to be complaining about lack of women.

 

I actually agree with most of that; it's just that what I wrote above is what I kept hearing/reading from an increasing number of people. Maybe they're just flattering themselves, I don't know. But the nerd-turned-Lothario seems to be the prevailing trope on dating message board, and each PUA guru has his own version of the same story. What they emphasize is the complete change, that they're doing the exact opposite of what they were doing before when they couldn't even get laid.

[Woggle]

My daughter brought up much the same topic to me last night, with much the same points as the OP made.

 

She is 17 and doesn't accept bad behaviour from the boys her age, but even so she is already sick of the thoughtless things they say.

 

I don't think it's as simple as finding a "nice" guy, because I think genuinely nice guys are extremely rare. I suspect alot of guys suspect they are nice, but they are not really. Not unless being a "nice" guy includes criticizing, (or making those little annoying comments that slowly erode someones self esteem).

 

And saying men do it because it works, seems foolish to me, given the large number of 40+ women who have had enough of men completely.

 

Which may not seem bad to some of you men, but my daughter at 17yrs old is at that point now. She even wants to try and see if she is a lesbian (not because she has any strong inner knowing that she is one), but purely because she is so fed up with the male sex, but doesn't want to live a loveless life.

 

I understand her frustration, I have felt it myself. I don't want to be with someone who is always trying to change me, because they don't think I am good enough as I am. I love who I am and I love my life, why should I accept someone into my life that isn't prepared to love me as I am without trying to change me.

 

I feel I am not the only woman who thinks her only choices are to stay single or to accept a man who will always be looking for and pointing out things he considers faults.

 

Plenty of women criticize and pick apart their men as well. I have a number of friends who feel like they can't do anything right in their wives eyes.

 

Maybe we should teach young women and men for that matter to make better dating choices so they don't eventually end up taking their anger out on the entire opposite sex when these choices backfire on them. It's not anybody's responsibility to pay for their gender's sins because somebody spent their younger years chasing after bad boys or status obsessed shallow women.

 

Somebody who has never mistreated anybody is not obligated to bear the brunt of that bitterness. If I were single I would be glad if man haters took themselves out of the dating pool because that would mean less potential drama for me.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Why are you condemned to dating people who treat you like crap? Why can't you find men who treat you well?

 

I don't understand this at all. It's your life. Take charge of it. It's not complex.

 

It's not that simple. I certainly don't have guys that treat me well quing up to date me.

 

Personally, I have chosen to remain single in the past year rather than be with guys that treat me like crap. But it's not ideal, nor easy.

[Vogeltron]

Women are gullible and many think that at some point they can change a man. Unfortunately it isn't going to happen. When you hit about 25-30 and learn you have dated a bunch of d-bags then the quite guy who actually calls and doesn't treat you like **** begins to look better and better. The guys hitting on women all the time are always jerks. That's why they don't care about getting rejected. It is a game of if I talk to this many girls I will get this many number, etc. Most the guys who aren't jerks actually care what people think they are more likely to care if they get rejected. They take it personally. So the majority of the time you get guys who don't care normally jerks asking women out. The guy who really wants to go out with them doesn't or the women is freaked out that he is so nervous asking her out. AKA thinks something is wrong with him and avoids him. So you end up with women having their dating pool of whomever will ask them out and usually at-least for a while tell them whatever they think they want to hear. Really two sided issue, women saying initially refusing to consider the more reserved type. Inability for the more reserved type to either ask anyone out and or show the confidence to believe in themselves enough to take the rejection. Even it today's media, I have read many times more and more men feel less confident about themselves because of their looks because they try to compare themselves to the dudes with the six packs in the commercials and everything else. My opinion and you can refute it all you want. It is a generalization of what I have seen, experienced and learned from people close to me.

[suladas]

It's not that simple. I certainly don't have guys that treat me well quing up to date me.

 

Personally, I have chosen to remain single in the past year rather than be with guys that treat me like crap. But it's not ideal, nor easy.

 

Move to Canada ES I will always treat you right

[Eternal Sunshine]

Move to Canada ES I will always treat you right

 

Aw that's very tempting

 

I am applying for out of Australia work right now, so who knows where I will end up

[suladas]

Aw that's very tempting

 

I am applying for out of Australia work right now, so who knows where I will end up

 

Canada is a good choice if I must say so

[soccerrprp]

I wonder if there's a strong correlation between bad-boy behavior and the perception of masculinity. I think there is. I think that most ladies prefer the more exhibitionist, cocky, "masculine" type and such guys tend to be more aggressive. You know the girl going after the football jock kind of thing. If you believe that evolution has a very large part of what makes us do what we do, then women will tend to be attracted to the so-called "alpha" male types. The one who beats his chest the most....

 

By and large, since returning to dating after about 15 years away from it, I am dismayed at the way men treat women. Yes, of course it happens to men also, but I suspect not to the level as men crapping on women.

 

I have found it difficult to date partly b/c so many women have commitment, trust issues brought on by being dumped on by guys multiple times.

 

I consider myself a "nice guy" and have never had problems dating. I don't need to change, won't change, but I often get comments like "you're too good to be true" from the ladies. It can be frustrating...and sad.

[Titania22]

I would agree it's rare, as everyone does have their faults. But I can sincerely say IMO that i'm a nice guy, and so far it has not worked out too well. A lot of guys generally are happy with who they are with I think, i've had a women i'm with say she wants to loose a few pounds and say it when I mean it, she is perfect the way she is. I do get it though, I see how most guys treat women, including my friends, and ya I don't get a lot of it. But it can be the other way around to.

 

I think it's really unfortunate, especially at a young age how poorly your daughter views men.

 

Most of her friends are male, because she has male dominated interests and does male dominated school subjects. And she finds they all have irrationally high expectations of what they think they deserve (whether it be women, their school performance or career). She sees them as quite lazy and entitled, and sometimes thoughtless and insensitive with their words. I don't know if they are as bad as that, or she is somewhat hypersensitive and over emotional (she is a teenage girl). But I do feel for her.

 

One of her friends, I am also friends with and he seems really nice, but he would still fall into the category of lazy, and being a flawed human like the rest of us, no doubt says the wrong thing sometimes. I really can't understand why she isn't into him, I think he's gorgeous too.

 

Plenty of women criticize and pick apart their men as well. I have a number of friends who feel like they can't do anything right in their wives eyes.

 

Maybe we should teach young women and men for that matter to make better dating choices so they don't eventually end up taking their anger out on the entire opposite sex when these choices backfire on them. It's not anybody's responsibility to pay for their gender's sins because somebody spent their younger years chasing after bad boys or status obsessed shallow women.

 

Somebody who has never mistreated anybody is not obligated to bear the brunt of that bitterness. If I were single I would be glad if man haters took themselves out of the dating pool because that would mean less potential drama for me.

 

I know criticism happens to both sexes, and all of us have moments when we say things we didn't mean too. But I don't want to spend any length of time with someone who is trying to push me in some direction, I am happy to go in a direction of my own choosing. What right is it for anyone to tell anyone else that they are wasting their life. Until I meet a man who is both happy to be with me and happy to let me steer my own life course, I will choose to be single.

 

To me it's as much about delivery as anything else. My son says some things to me sometimes that are pretty horrible, but he has perfect comedic delivery and timing, and I don't take them to heart and instead am laughing and telling others about his cruel japes (reading alot of GoT lately).

[RedRobin]

Why?

 

Our culture has trained men that aggressive or even violent behavior equates with masculinity.

 

Our culture has trained women to tolerate it and blame themselves for this behavior.

 

So... the biggest way to avoid jerks is to actively seek out positive traits that are undeniably incongruent with aggressive or violent behavior...

 

Two of them being empathy and ability to delay gratification.