Why do men treat women so badly?

[Radu]

I was listening to a female friend lament about how all the guys in her past have treated her badly. I also have had my fair share of men who treated me badly. I wonder why this has been the case with so many women (myself included). Is it because we choose men poorly? Maybe so, but all joking aside - let's say you have just met someone. You don't know this person from the next guy, you don't automatically KNOW that this person is going to treat you badly. Unless this guy has some kind of rep among friends and acquaintances that they pass onto you, that is. Over time there are red flags or signs, or there will be, right?

Yes, it's because you choose men poorly.

Even if it wasn't, your only control is over what you do, not what they do and are.

 

So why then does this happen to us like it has? Here are a few pointers on why:

Things don't happen to you, with a very few exceptions.

You let them happen to you.

 

1) Bad training - If you were lucky your mom told you (her daughter) that men should treat women well and if and when it happens to you that you should expect a man to treat you well. My mom and I never had that talk, because she never dated anyone except for my dad and there are/were plenty of times that she remains the submissive to his tirades. He has also had his bad moments when he liked to put down my self esteem, only to say he was sorry once I have burst into tears. Talk about mixed signals. It's like ignorance and tolerance in the same bundle passed down.

OK

 

2) Men vs. boys - We assume when we grow up that things are all going to be fine and we'll get past all the childish nonsense that was going on while on the playground with boys or in high school. Unfortunately we find out that the bad behaviors that boys (and girls) are into does not change with age. When you think about it, even as adults when we go through our adult dramas we are still acting like kids. Those stabs don't feel any better at age 27 verses age 77.

This men vs boys is stupid.

I keep reading it on feminist websites and i just want to puke.

You are right in your asessment, but it still makes me want to upchuck seeing that i keep reading about it.

 

3) Bad examples - Like it or not we are seeing a tremendous outflowing of bad examples in the media. Reality TV, movies and whatnot portray men acting like jackasses. We also have a certain double standard saying "boys will be boys" and they are allowed to misbehave when women are not. Subconciously, we see these things and expect men to do just this to women.

Double standard yes, it will exist but most men do acknowledge it.

As for media, most of the media caters to women.

Look at Hollywood, the men are constantly portrayed as dumb idiots made whole by the pretty, intelligent, educated, sophisticated and overall just better vagina owner.

You have mainstream movies that show that it's ok to emasculate the male children and claim outright that a preference of girls is better, that girls are better.

You have 'celebs' like Kim Kardashian that basically show to the girls of today that it's ok to physically assault your husband, and to hire naked yoga 'teachers' when you are married.

You have leading feminists who go on TV with their families of 2, boy and girl, with their husband present validating their little girl saying 'girls are better' while the objections of the younger male boy is hushed.

 

*Please note : This is not a man bashing post. There are just as many women who are acting terrible towards men as well. I am sure there are men reading this who would never do such cowardly and terrible things like dump a woman via text message/email, hit them, or inflict verbal or physical abuse on any woman around them. I am reflecting on women that I am seeing around me. Some may be perfectly happy and have a wonderful man in their lives, I am talking about the most obvious examples who have scarred us in the past.*

I know it isn't.

 

What can you do? The only thing you can do is recognize red flags, decide that you are not going to put up with certain behaviors, and keep faith that someday, somehow it will all be ok for you. When you give unconditional love and respect, you will receive it. Just not from this jackass you hitched your wagon to. Because in the end, all you have is yourself.

Yes, because in the end you only have control over yourself, not others.

Do not ask for the world to change just because of your problems, it won't.

 

 

Also, you write those 3 theories but you do not think of a simpler one ?

 

Ok, let's try this.

Your dad was abusive, your mom just took it, and that was your example in dating so you ended up seeking guys like him.

[Badsingularity]

Why?

 

Our culture has trained men that aggressive or even violent behavior equates with masculinity.

 

No. No it hasn't.

 

If anything our society suppresses natural aggression in men.

 

It you want to blame something for men's natural aggression, blame Testosterone.

 

As for why women put up with men treating them badly. It's because those men are doing what ever the hell they want and that is a sign of strength. Women are attracted to strength in men even if their behaviour is not nice.

[Zulnex]

I am honestly not sure why some men treat women badly.

 

For many years I have witnessed my father's verbal and physical abuse towards my mom.

 

I find this sort of behavior disgraceful and repulsive.

[uniqwa]

Positive PLUS a negative will not yield a positive result.

[Els]

It you want to blame something for men's natural aggression, blame Testosterone.

 

No, in the case of men who give in to their 'primal urges for violence', it's absolutely inaccurate to place the blame on testosterone. The blame goes to the individual for lacking the higher cortex functionality to control his 'primal urges' like a rational and thinking human being, but rather choosing to give in to them like an animal.

 

The same goes to women who use hormonal imbalance as an excuse for cheating on their husbands when they're ovulating, or postnatal depression as an excuse for killing their babies.

 

As for why women put up with men treating them badly. It's because those men are doing what ever the hell they want and that is a sign of strength. Women are attracted to strength in men even if their behaviour is not nice.

 

Inaccurate, again. Those women are either immature or lacking in self-esteem (usually both) and believe that they don't deserve better.

[Emilia]

I agree 100%! I had two great parent while growing up. Positive role models for the most part and my positive, respectful perspective of women (people in general) is a direct result of the relationship that my parents had.

 

It's very obvious. you are one of my favourite posters.

[Woggle]

To be fair in this society we do tend to see people who take what they want and treat people however they feel like as strong. Kindness is seen as weakness these days.

[Radu]

To be fair in this society we do tend to see people who take what they want and treat people however they feel like as strong. Kindness is seen as weakness these days.

 

Bummer, because kindness is on top of my list to find in a girl.

It just makes a woman so feminine ...

[Taramere]

Inaccurate, again. Those women are either immature or lacking in self-esteem (usually both) and believe that they don't deserve better.

 

I think immaturity and just general shyness/lack of experience can play a big role. Probably because a lot of guys on the internet are primarily focused on very young women - who often do go for "bad boy" types, it's difficult for them to see beyond that. To understand that it's just a passing stage - and also, that the so-called Nice Guys aren't always nice guys.

 

I had an unpleasant sh*t of a boyfriend for a while when I was 16/17. Looking back, he was an insecure sort of character who was taking those insecurities out on me. I sort of knew that at the time, and honestly thought that if I just carried on being a nice person he would start feeling better within himself and stop being such a ****. I don't think it was low self esteem on my part, so much as just the naivety of youth. That kind of "good will win out" optimistic thinking.

 

Then, there was this other guy who he was absolutely terrified of. The sort of mildly delinquent, alphamale that - with hindsight (and the benefit of this board) so many males seem to picture when they're talking about girls falling for "bad boys". This particular boy had taken an interest in me, and wasn't impressed by the fact that I was dating a boy who wore a hat. I decided that he had a point - and of course, there was the whole romantic thing of "sheltered middle class girl meets boy from the wrong side of the tracks"...catching sight of him looking at me across a crowded room when "Uptown Girl" was playing, and all that stuff that gives you palpitations as a teenager.

 

So of course I arranged to meet him in a venue that I knew my horrible boyfriend was meeting his friends in. As payback. He (the horrible boyfriend) would probably be one of those who went on about how I gave up a "nice guy" (him) to go out with a bad boy. I'm sure he would rewrite history and conveniently forgetting what a nasty, "put you down at every opportunity" little **** he actually was - due to his own insecurities.

 

Although the "alpha" bad boy was too young, busy with his mildly delinquent activities and generally testosterone charged to make a very good boyfriend, he never said anything that was designed to put me down or rob me of my confidence - unlike the first boyfriend. He seemed to genuinely like me, but was just one of those guys who was making the most of his popularity while he was still young.

 

I think a bit of carelessness and immaturity you can forgive. It's when you know that somebody is spitefully intentioned towards you - not because of anything you personally have done, but because they have issues that they're venting on you...well, to me, that's the real deal in terms of "treating somebody badly".

[BetheButterfly]

For the same reason women treat men badly. It is not about gender. We are just living in a society where people don't give a damn about anybody but themselves. You also have a lot of hurt people out there with a get them before they get you mentality.

 

Sad but very true.

 

That's why it's so important to keep Love and Kindness and Respect alive!!!

[PJKino]

Because it gets rewarded sometimes.

 

As a man youre told thats its better that youre a cocky bordering on arrogant person strutting around with"swag"[hate that corny word] like youre ***** doesnt stink rather then be quiet and humble.

 

I think women these days are so turned on by hypermasculinity thats its a thin line between being turned on by masculinity and just a dickhead.

[footballfan10]

Violence and aggression in men is a good thing under certain circumstances.....A guy shouldn't look to be violent or mean or overly aggressive if theirs no reason for it (don't bully or put others down just because you can)...He should look to be confident/strong/principled but kind and good to other unless given a reason not to...willing to resort to violence if it is warranted but tries to avoid it.

 

If someone insulted your girlfriend and you immediately came to her defense and was willing to fight if you had to=Very attractive to women

 

If you just randomly get drunk and bully others/pick random fights for no reason and act like a complete tool=only attractive to women with mental problems...or low class sluts from Jersey

 

Most normal good women with good upbringings would be very turned off if you just went around abusing/bullying others for no reason....But they would like it if you always stood up to them and would have no problems getting physical if the time truly called for it.

 

Basically aim to be a strong good/nice principled masculine man....Only be an abusive rude bully douchebag if you want to bang worthless insecure hoes from the Jersey Shore.

 

I know women get alot of crap but from my experience a good woman will choose a strong masculine GOOD man over a strong masculine douchebag most of the time...It's only if the choice is emasculated weak feminie good man that they will choose the dickheads....or if the girl is very young and still immature (aka like 15-16 years old and finds the abusive/bullying to be exciting)

 

 

If you act like an abusive douche in college most girls would be turned off.....Just as they would be if you acted overly weak.

Edited April 9, 2013 by footballfan10

[footballfan10]

Their is no excuse for those women that like horrible evil men or write love letters to notorious murderers....I don't kind care how "sexy" they are....That is just inexcusable.....If I had my will those women would be culled out of the gene pool/sterilized as to not reproduce....Same goes for men who do the same for female murderers like Casey Anthony....or men who are pedophiles...All of these are deviant sick forms of sexuality that need to be culled from the human gene pool.

 

But I think in general from my experience most normal women past the age of 16 don't like outright *******s or bullies...They may choose them over complete weaklings but in general if you act confident and masculine but also good/principled/moral (treat others as they treat you etc) and protective women would prefer that for sure.

 

Basically be Masculine (not dickhead masculine) and nice...You can volunteer and do work for charities and all that are you will be fine as long as you act masculine.

 

From my experience acting like a complete ass in College doesn't get you good quality high self esteem girls and if it does it's only for a brief period of time..

[mortensorchid]

And just to answer a few questions posted, the man I sighted in the example earlier in the thread and I were together for nearly 2 years. We saw each other once a month (equally trading between visits, I to him or him to me, either driving or flying). He changed in the last two months or so, hence the abusive behaviors.

 

He did, however, run away like the coward he truly is. After we had parted ways once and for all, he did have a few chats with a mutual friend of mine and she read him the riot act over his bad behavior and how badly he had treated me. What the two of them exchanged verbatum, I don't know. Barely a year later, like I said, he met and married another woman. My mutual friend (I will call her K) said she was told about it beforehand but kept it from me. I won't go so far as to say how exactly it was revealed, but it was on the front page of a newspaper in another country with a full story gushed forth by him.

 

That marriage lasted 3 years. He was so eager to have someone in his life that he agreed to marry this woman, support her and her two children (one from each previous marriage) and pay for her daughter's education. She took advantage of him from what I understand. She bought a trailer down in North Carolina (where her daughter was living and attending a college) and started going down more and more often to "spend time with her daughter". The first year they were married she spent the whole summer down there. Then she said that she was going to move down there and just come back to him for holidays and occasions. Then she ran off, divorced him, married husband #4 and has since divorced #4.

 

As for him? He no longer speaks to anyone. He is far too embarassed or ashamed of himself for his treatment of me and his failed marriage to talk to anyone. My friend C was/is depressed about it but has since resolved it, she had no choice but to. He was abusive and horrible, but he got what he deserved - an equally abusive woman. It's hard to feel any pity for him, because he could've had something better than that. He could have had something even just a little bit better than that, but he chose such a trashy train wreck of a woman to be with.

[Badsingularity]

No, in the case of men who give in to their 'primal urges for violence', it's absolutely inaccurate to place the blame on testosterone. The blame goes to the individual for lacking the higher cortex functionality to control his 'primal urges' like a rational and thinking human being, but rather choosing to give in to them like an animal.

 

The same goes to women who use hormonal imbalance as an excuse for cheating on their husbands when they're ovulating, or postnatal depression as an excuse for killing their babies.

 

I was responding to someone saying that society teaches men to be aggressive which is ridiculous.

 

Men are naturally more aggresive do to testosterone. Men are actually taught by society to be less aggressive and to become more "civilized" than they naturally are, not the other way around.

 

I never said that men couldn't control themselves or that they should blame testosterone for hurting someone.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Radu

Things don't happen to you, with a very few exceptions.

You let them happen to you.

 

Hmm, I wouldn't exactly say that. But I would say that even when things happen to you, you can make choices to get out of the situation. You might not be able to always prevent something from happening but there is a point where you can make a choice.

 

 

Double standard yes, it will exist but most men do acknowledge it.

As for media, most of the media caters to women.

Look at Hollywood, the men are constantly portrayed as dumb idiots made whole by the pretty, intelligent, educated, sophisticated and overall just better vagina owner.

You have mainstream movies that show that it's ok to emasculate the male children and claim outright that a preference of girls is better, that girls are better.

You have 'celebs' like Kim Kardashian that basically show to the girls of today that it's ok to physically assault your husband, and to hire naked yoga 'teachers' when you are married.

You have leading feminists who go on TV with their families of 2, boy and girl, with their husband present validating their little girl saying 'girls are better' while the objections of the younger male boy is hushed.

 

Unfortunetly, media caters to quick-reaction common denominators in people. Men and women.

 

Hollywood can protray men as dumb idiots which drives me crazy too but alot of movies out in Hollywood have bigger and better roles for men where their careers run longer than most of the women's. You'll often seen older male actors paired with younger new starlets. Men get better roles.

 

I agree with you about mainstream movies and how it likes to protray these kind of men that never grow up. Which I do think is dysfunctional. But part of the reason they are so successful is because it produces the fantasy that a man can be more of a boy and still have fun, adventure and sex. Think of any Adam Sandler movie. Boyishly cute but he certainly probably has more of a male fan base than female. In most of his movies he is ignorant, immature, boyish, charming and always lands the hot babe. I think this fantasy is created to feed more into blue collar men's interests than it is women's.

 

I do agree with you about Kim K. It drives me crazy that women are the driving force behind keeping her popular. But it's no different that men hunting down her sex tape.

 

I'm not sure about the last one. I think misognistic and misandristic topics are all over tv.

[KathyM]

I think there's two reasons why men might treat women badly.

 

#1. That is what was modeled to them as a child. We learn how to treat our partners by the way our same sex parent treated their spouse. That learning becomes engrained in our attitudes and behavior and is acted out and passed down from generation to generation. Abusive men learned to be abusive from their fathers. Women who grew up in a household where the father abused his wife learn that women are not to be treated any better, and they accept that kind of behavior in their own relationship. It's learned behavior. Women who grew up in a home where the mother was the tyrant of the family learn to dominate and control their man. So it's learned behavior through the role modeling of the parents.

 

#2. Influence of the media and other people. When we are given images of how men should treat women, we start thinking that that behavior is to be expected and tolerated. Women treated badly in porn, for example, teaches some men that that is how to treat women, and they actually believe women want to be treated like that. Women start to believe that that is what men expect, and so they go along with it thinking it is the norm or to be expected. Recently there is the culture of the PUA, where men are trained to disrespect women in order to build attraction from the woman based on her insecurities. Or men are taught that they need to have the upper hand in the relationship and they shouldn't treat the woman well.

 

Those messages are all around us, from our parents, from the media, and from others who influence us, unfortunately. If women would not tolerate being treated poorly, men would get the message that behaving poorly is not working for them, and they will change their behavior accordingly. Unfortunately, too many women are willing to be treated poorly, and so they put up with it because they were conditioned to tolerate poor treatment from men.

[M30USA]

I do not believe mistreating of a spouse is ANY more prevalent by male perpetrators. Perhaps I'm saying this largely from personal experience in my own marriage and observations of others, but I just can't agree with the sentiment of the OP.

 

In general, abuse by men is more obvious. This includes outright physical violence, rape, etc. Men tend to not hide it. Women, on the other hand, aren't as conspicuous in their abuse. They may sneakily rip a mans life apart through social manipulation, emotional abuse, financial control, and--yes--women do physically abuse men. Unfortunately women don't get punished for these forms of abuse since there is no physical proof.

[amaysngrace]

Women and men who treat their partners like crap are d-bags.

[wheream_i]

I'm sure I've posted this response here before, as I've read 100's of threads just like this one. But a friend of mine told me years ago about a woman he was sleeping with and not giving her the time of day otherwise. "As long as there are women like her, there will always be guys like me."

 

Truer words were never spoken.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I'm sure I've posted this response here before, as I've read 100's of threads just like this one. But a friend of mine told me years ago about a woman he was sleeping with and not giving her the time of day otherwise. "As long as there are women like her, there will always be guys like me."

 

Truer words were never spoken.

 

That friend of yours sleeps with women without giving them the time of day because he doesn't really respect women to begin with. Not because there are women that will sleep with him. But it makes him feel better to believe this because he doesn't have to take his own actions into account and he can pretend he's a decent guy when he really is somewhat of an abuser.

[Woggle]

That friend of yours sleeps with women without giving them the time of day because he doesn't really respect women to begin with. Not because there are women that will sleep with him. But it makes him feel better to believe this because he doesn't have to take his own actions into account and he can pretend he's a decent guy when he really is somewhat of an abuser.

 

There really are women and men as well who get treated like that and keep coming back for more. I would never do that to somebody though. I just choose not to have them in my life.

[2betex]

Generally speaking, and not slamming at all ..btw... I see it in some of my woman friends ....They keep the bad guy and burn a good one. It appears they focus on the surface being superficial and not the long run... with that "I can change him attitude"... Not a high success rate.. ladies..

 

A good person will work for a better relationship as they understand the dynamics of this and will change to make it better...

[JourneyLady]

I just would like to find a guy who can talk things out when misunderstandings occur or negotiations are needed without:

1) Clamming up

2) Avoiding the situation and pushing me away with labels.

3) Being abusive.

 

Ex-husband used to just listen and not put forth his own ideas. In other words, he'd agree with everything I said and if he couldn't agree, he'd just not talk or say "I don't know".

 

1st ex-boyfriend absolutely and unequivocally refused to talk about any problems or things we needed to work out. His spiel was if we needed to talk about it, then I was upset and he didn't want to talk about anything with someone who was upset. (Wasn't always true either.)

 

2nd ex-boyfriend became abusive and went into complaints about me, rather than discussing the issue at hand. Never could or would negotiate any kind of mutually satisfactory conclusion to an issue and nearly always acted unilaterally.

 

3rd ex-boyfriend (a "nice guy" I thought) simply got mad and bailed and is now silent going on one week. He said "go live your life!" which I take to be a break up with me. I'd like it not to be over, but he simply refuses to discuss anything. Period.

 

Now I can get emotional and I do cry at times when I am being criticized (bad childhood). I've been in therapy though and I know there is NOTHING WRONG with being emotional, particularly when I have let the other person know I am at times. But I don't yell, I don't call names, I try to be understood, and what I really want is to sit down and have a heart to heart about what is and is not working. But I cannot seem to find a male who can do this!!!

 

Oh and it would be a real plus if I could find one willing to discuss problems BEFORE they occur. Because I know they will, no matter how good a relationship is, so why not be adult about it and figure out procedures to handle stuff before it comes up? That would be treating me in the way in which I am sure I deserve...

 

The bad part - I know I'm a little impatient to get to the discussion sometimes, but all it would take for me to wait is "I'd rather not discuss it right now. Why don't we think about it and have that discussion at 3pm tomorrow?" I'd be good with that...

[2betex]

I just would like to find a guy who can talk things out when misunderstandings occur or negotiations are needed without:

1) Clamming up

2) Avoiding the situation and pushing me away with labels.

3) Being abusive.

...

 

Funny, I was the expressive one in my previous relationship, she was the one to this day says lets talk about it tomorrow or later....later never comes. I am Italian and Brazilian... hot blooded and emotional... She was English and Swedish... cool and calm... Why talk about it when it can be ignored and it will go away..

 

 

Now I can get emotional and I do cry at times when I am being criticized (bad childhood). I've been in therapy though and I know there is NOTHING WRONG with being emotional, particularly when I have let the other person know I am at times. But I don't yell, I don't call names, I try to be understood, and what I really want is to sit down and have a heart to heart about what is and is not working. But I cannot seem to find a male who can do this!!!...

 

Nothing at all wrong with crying as long as it is real (not faking) and not drama...

 

Oh and it would be a real plus if I could find one willing to discuss problems BEFORE they occur. Because I know they will, no matter how good a relationship is, so why not be adult about it and figure out procedures to handle stuff before it comes up? That would be treating me in the way in which I am sure I deserve...

 

One thing I used to try is to get ahead of the curve.... So to speak,, if you see something or do something... bring it up and move on before it festers.. Well needless to say did not work with my ex...