Men and money

[Got it]

I think the details are greatly important before a decision can be made. There is a LARGE difference between a dating profile where the person says they don't have a job, a relationship where you have time invested in the person and they lose a job, and the person's drive, desires, and ambition and vice versa for their female counterpart.

 

I do know that men get a lot out of self achievements and so being able to provide is important. I appreciate a man that can also look past this ego boost and see the bigger picture and make the appropriate decisions based on that and not just whether their ego is taking a hit. Especially in this economy many people, male and female stand a greater chance of being jobless at points in their career. It is just the reality and so the idea that no job = no worth carte blanche is not conducive to forming/keeping a partnership.

 

Like other stressful times in someone's life, these are the moments that will really show someone who you are. It can bring people closer together or it can drive them apart. If one wants to marry, then adjusting to the team mentality is a much better frame of mind.

 

I would caution, not knowing how long this has been going on, allow your SO some time to adjust to his circumstances. It is a give and take on both sides so appreciating how he feels and what he wants to do for you to show he is an equal partner is equally important.

[january2011]

A man's self worth is more important to him than a wife and family and he will wait until he feels good about himself before taking on these responsibilities. It's not that your boyfriend doesn't love you, it is just that he hasn't reached the right point in his personal development to settle down. I would take that as a huge positive.

 

In my experience, this is pretty much it. He's got to feel right. Until he does, marriage is not going to happen, especially if he feels that you might want to have kids pretty soonish. His role as a provider can be pretty ingrained into him by his peers and by society.

 

Losing his job is not a career break. It can be a huge blow to one's self-esteem, so it's not suprising that he began to re-evaluate everything and decide that he couldn't take forward all his plans. I'm really sorry that this happened to you, OP, but I think that it was a case of wrong time and wrong place rather than wrong person.

[carhill]

I see all these posts about men not wanting to get married until they are completely financially stable and capable of supporting a family. Will someone please tell me..what's that about?!?

 

Socialization, societal and peer influence, and genetic programming are strong. Men are susceptible to feelings influenced by these factors.

[Els]

Second LT's comments. It's not a mindset that I particularly understand well, but I accept that that is the case for some people. If you don't feel comfortable being in a R with a man with this mindset, what is preventing you from moving on?

 

That being said, I think dumping you whenever he loses his job is a whole different kettle of fish from choosing not to start a family yet due to lack of financial stability. I don't think it's generally a great idea to stay with a man who has had a history of dumping for such reasons.

[ThatJustHappened]

The OP has me so confused right now.

 

Many women on here will bash a guy, no job = she's gone. And plenty of OLD profiles blatantly saying do not contact unless you have a job, car, and license (guess it makes sense he needs to actually drive the car).

 

So how tolerant are women in starting a new relationship with a guy who's going through rough times? Should an unemployed guy even bother trying to date?

 

I'll date a guy who doesn't have a job as long as he's motivated and responsible and trying his hardest to better his situation. If he's just lying around like a bump on a log, that's not attractive.

[ThatJustHappened]

Second LT's comments. It's not a mindset that I particularly understand well, but I accept that that is the case for some people. If you don't feel comfortable being in a R with a man with this mindset, what is preventing you from moving on?

 

That being said, I think dumping you whenever he loses his job is a whole different kettle of fish from choosing not to start a family yet due to lack of financial stability. I don't think it's generally a great idea to stay with a man who has had a history of dumping for such reasons.

 

I do feel comfortable being with a guy who has that mindset. I didn't dump him, he dumped me.

 

This is the second time..this is not an ongoing issue. I don't know if he's going to do it again. I'm going to do my best to make him realize that I love him and want to be with him, and that I know his situation will turn around soon. If he chooses to dump me again, that'll be it for me. So far we are fine, but this just happened last week so I don't know what's going to happen yet.

[Els]

I do feel comfortable being with a guy who has that mindset. I didn't dump him, he dumped me.

 

I guess I assumed you weren't comfortable because you were ranting about it.

 

This is the second time..this is not an ongoing issue. I don't know if he's going to do it again. I'm going to do my best to make him realize that I love him and want to be with him, and that I know his situation will turn around soon. If he chooses to dump me again, that'll be it for me. So far we are fine, but this just happened last week so I don't know what's going to happen yet.

 

If he pulls it again, I definitely agree that you shouldn't take him back, no matter what he says. There is no security in being with someone who dumps you out of the blue whenever anything bad happens.

[ThatJustHappened]

I guess I assumed you weren't comfortable because you were ranting about it.

 

 

 

If he pulls it again, I definitely agree that you shouldn't take him back, no matter what he says. There is no security in being with someone who dumps you out of the blue whenever anything bad happens.

 

Yep, that's the plan. I'm ranting about it because I hope he doesn't do it again. I love him very very much and I know he loves me too. Even when he dumped me, I never doubted that. He just got scared.

 

Honestly, my rant is premature. This happened last week and so far he's shown no signs of dumping me again. I'm just freaking myself out and I'm talking about it on here instead of talking about it with him..because that would be annoying, pushy, and clingy.

[Woggle]

Because many men feel that if women don't need our money then what do they need us for? It's a wrong way to think but a large number of men feel that way. He starts to wonder that if you are financially independent why do you even want to marry in the first place.

[SuperGeek]

I'm sorry, but there is no distinction between:

 

- A guy with no job and no prospects

 

to

 

- A guy with no job and no prospects who is sitting on his ass not doing anything.

 

The truth MOST of the time is women will just say he's jobless, a deadbeat, and reject his ass. I know because this very thing has happened to me many times when I was down in my career. I had a few business failures in the past and as my plane was crashing in flames the woman I was with was packing her bags. It didn't matter if I had other prospects or not. I was just a failure to her because I didn't have a job and a income stream to take her out on dates. She didn't see the big picture like I saw it.

 

It is a double standard no matter how you slice it, as most women won't take the TIME to even delve into a man's situation enough to find out if he is truly trying to find work or slacking off. Especially when first meeting someone on a dating site or out at a meetup. They will dismiss the guy immediately upon finding out he is jobless. It has happened to me sooooooo many times in my past. Not so much now as I'm pretty damn financially secure at this point.

 

SuperGeek

 

Its not a double standard.

 

Most women won't date a guy who has no prospects and no interest in making a life for himself. That's a very different thing. He can have no job and no money, but he needs to be actively looking for a way out of his situation and showing evidence that he's getting somewhere, even if it's very slowly.

 

A guy with no job, no money and making little effort to achieve anything in life is just a deadbeat - and he probably has low self esteem too. There is nothing attractive about a deadbeat with low self esteem. Just imagine what kind of a future a woman could expect with a guy like that!

[LittleTiger]

I'm sorry, but there is no distinction between:

 

- A guy with no job and no prospects

 

to

 

- A guy with no job and no prospects who is sitting on his ass not doing anything.

 

The truth MOST of the time is women will just say he's jobless, a deadbeat, and reject his ass. I know because this very thing has happened to me many times when I was down in my career. I had a few business failures in the past and as my plane was crashing in flames the woman I was with was packing her bags. It didn't matter if I had other prospects or not. I was just a failure to her because I didn't have a job and a income stream to take her out on dates. She didn't see the big picture like I saw it.

 

It is a double standard no matter how you slice it, as most women won't take the TIME to even delve into a man's situation enough to find out if he is truly trying to find work or slacking off. Especially when first meeting someone on a dating site or out at a meetup. They will dismiss the guy immediately upon finding out he is jobless. It has happened to me sooooooo many times in my past. Not so much now as I'm pretty damn financially secure at this point.

 

SuperGeek

 

It's a shame that the actions of one woman have made you so bitter towards all women. Most women are not like the woman who left you.

 

Have you ever thought it could have been your change in personality when your business failed that made her leave, and not your lack of finances. Times of stress bring out the worst in all of us. Perhaps your worst was just intolerable for that woman!

 

You certainly don't come across as a pleasant person in this thread!

 

If other women have dismissed you out of hand, don't be so sure it was your lack of employment that scared them away. Most women reject 95% of men who approach them, regardless of employment prospects - usually because they don't like them or they don't find them attractive. C'est la vie!

[Els]

It is a double standard no matter how you slice it, as most women won't take the TIME to even delve into a man's situation enough to find out if he is truly trying to find work or slacking off. Especially when first meeting someone on a dating site or out at a meetup. They will dismiss the guy immediately upon finding out he is jobless. It has happened to me sooooooo many times in my past. Not so much now as I'm pretty damn financially secure at this point.

 

Obviously if they are meeting you for the first time, ESPECIALLY from dating sites or dating meetups, they are not likely to be impressed. If you were to go out on a first date with a girl from a dating site and she turned out to be obese, are you going to be delving into whether or not she has any medical disorders or is trying hard to lose the weight?

 

Dumping someone whom you've been with for a long time, for losing his job is a whole different kettle of fish. In that case, you either picked the wrong girl or there were other issues that you were unaware of. Most of us who prefer an employed man would still stick by our long-term SO if they happen to lose their job or their business.

[ThatJustHappened]

Feminism was about giving women a CHOICE. Some women want to work outside the home, some want to work IN the home. Men that want a woman to raise his kids, cook and clean NEED to do exactly what your guy is doing. I admire him for it.

 

Every try working within days of giving birth? Ever hold a job while breast feeding? While taking care of aging parents? I have, it SUCKS! Your man is REALLY thinking about preparing for the things he wants his life to bring.

 

By claiming ALL women want to work outside you are doing a disservice to feminism and your sisters who want to be wives and mothers. Don't imply we dont exist because you are impatient to get married.

 

I said we can do anything, not that we all want to. And I think you're misreading the tone of my posts. They're meant to be a lot lighter than you seem to think.

 

Also, I will never have to take care of my aging parents, as I already spent nearly 10 years caring for my sick (single) mother before she passed away while holding down 2 jobs and finishing high school and then attending an Ivy league college. So I think I'm pretty set on multi-tasking.

Edited April 9, 2013 by ThatJustHappened

[AKisBaked]

Let the paper rain down... hahaha

 

But on a serious note.. I believe men have alot of pressure on themselves because we need to meet expectations in society. Were always getting challenged everyday (not saying women aren't either) but I do believe women like the role of a alpha male in their life knowing that their "man" can take control of situations and make sure that their wife, kids or whoever it may be doesn't have to worry but they confident. With money as per say.. you mentioned that your happy with him regardless if he doesn't have alot of money which is fine but if he as no job and you guys want to start a family where's your source of income to maintain that stable level or comfort? He may be fun and funny and all that but will it last forever?

 

having a stable job with stable income makes people feel better , because you know that you can support the other and that your saving money for a an unexpected rainy day. It's difficult to juggle a relationship with work when one person doesn't see it like the other does...

[Got it]

Feminism was about giving women a CHOICE. Some women want to work outside the home, some want to work IN the home. Men that want a woman to raise his kids, cook and clean NEED to do exactly what your guy is doing. I admire him for it.

 

Every try working within days of giving birth? Ever hold a job while breast feeding? While taking care of aging parents? I have, it SUCKS! Your man is REALLY thinking about preparing for the things he wants his life to bring.

 

By claiming ALL women want to work outside you are doing a disservice to feminism and your sisters who want to be wives and mothers. Don't imply we dont exist because you are impatient to get married.

 

TJH doesn't say ALL women, she says "most".

[Harradin]

I don't want to get married/engaged/start a family until I'm 30, I'm 20 atm.

 

Because by that time I would have hopefully figured out where I would be going in my life, so then I would (hopefully) have a good job that makes me financially secure so I have the funds available so if I want to get engaged, married and start a family I could. I'm not saying if the future girlfriend I'm with won't have a job or I expect her to stay at home while I go and work, I just want to have my career sorted so if a breakup happens or divorce etc I'll be able to cope.

[Radu]

But come on! Was all that feminist stuff back in the day for nothing? Most of us aren't asking men to support us completely. Get the eff over yourselves men!!! We love you..we want to be with you whether you're rich or poor (most of us..there are certainly gold diggers out there who want a rich guy).

 

I love my guy..I want to be with him because he's fun and funny and smart and handy and really good in bed..I don't care about his financial situation (as long as he's not millions of dollars in debt and trying to sell me into a prostitution ring).

 

I think you give too much credit to feminism.

 

Feminism was about releasing something that was already there.

And it did.

 

What you are wanting, is a change concerning something that comes from millions of yrs of social programming.

Men used to bring home the bacon, women did other things.

 

That's how it was, and it won't change anytime soon, especially in the US.

In fact, bunker down because in the US it will be even worse.

Between men getting disenfranchised with college compared to women, affirmative action, the mancession, the suicide statistics and homeless statistics [6 men commit suicide for every woman or become homeless], your men are literally screwed.

 

Which is why even though i admire the strength with which you want to back him up and look after him, you need to understand that he might pull this crap again, and when you are settled.

So talk to him, have this sorted, make him understand that this was a big thing for you, and not something that can be put to the side.

Quite frankly, considering this sideswiped you, i would consider this close to cheating, trust has been broken [close but not same].

 

--------------

 

I'm also of his mindset.

I'm 30 and wasted my time untill last yr.

 

Do i want to start a family ?; yes i do.

Do i want one now ?; hell no, i know i can't provide for them.

 

And i fear that even if i put myself out there [celibate for 2yrs], i don't think i can have a serious RL with a woman that is close to my age because of my stage in life.

So i understand him quite well.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Radu

[Got it]

Everyone has different timelines and goals set up prior to and to get to different milestones. Sometimes they end up changed, sometimes they are rolled out as expected. It is really an individual decision and I don't think there is anything wrong with having certain expectations before getting to a certain decision/life event.

 

Just like with most things in partnership, there are hard stops/dealbreakers and then grey/compromise areas.

[foreverandalways]

I see all these posts about men not wanting to get married until they are completely financially stable and capable of supporting a family. Will someone please tell me..what's that about?!? Do men not understand that we women don't just sit on our butts and eat bon bons all day anymore? We have jobs. We are perfectly capable of contributing and pulling our weight. We don't need you to support us..we want partners, not sugar daddies (well..most of us).

 

I got dumped a while back because my guy lost his job and felt unsure that he could support a wife and children (before he lost his job, we had been living together and ring shopping, and we had our children's names planned out). We're seeing each other again..but he just found out that his current job might make him redundant, and so now I'm wondering if he's going to dump me again (he doesn't get another chance after this, so if he wants to hang on to me, and it seems like he does, he'd better not..I'm honestly not super worried, just slightly concerned).

 

Guys..ladies..anyone. Can anyone explain this macho bs to me? Why can't we be considered equal partners, and why should your job affect your dating life and your major decisions about your future so much? How can something like a small break in your career have SO much impact on what you want in regards to a relationship?

 

I honestly have no clue. My boyfriend got suspended at work and is freaking out about missing days with no pay. He has told me a few times that he doesn't want to lose me over this.

 

Seriously? I would leave you because you're missing a few days work wtih no pay??? Absolutely not.

 

I get that the wedding itself is expensive. So perhaps that's the reasoning, of wanting to save up for the ring and wedding itself??

 

Plus, (most) guys want to be the breadwinner, and feel insecure when their woman makes more money than them.

[SuperGeek]

It wasn't just one woman, but several over various periods of my life.

 

Of course my attitude was different after a business failure. People don't walk around happy as clams when they've had a business loss. It is a loss just like anything else and there are emotional phases everyone goes through. If you lost your job, you can't sit here and tell me your emotional state wouldn't be impacted by it. If a business you poured your heart and soul into failed, you would be emotionally impacted by it. It's not the same as losing a loved one by any means, but there is still an impact.

 

If the girl I'm with can't _handle_ those emotional phases then she wasn't the girl for me. Life has ups and downs and your statement below makes it sound like women only stay with men who are at the top of their game facing no adversity in life. I'm sorry but that isn't how the real world works!

 

I won't type anything else here because you seemed to have judged me from a single reply on this forum. You are far too green in life and judgmental to even waste further keystrokes with this reply.

 

It's a shame that the actions of one woman have made you so bitter towards all women. Most women are not like the woman who left you.

 

Have you ever thought it could have been your change in personality when your business failed that made her leave, and not your lack of finances. Times of stress bring out the worst in all of us. Perhaps your worst was just intolerable for that woman!

 

You certainly don't come across as a pleasant person in this thread!

 

If other women have dismissed you out of hand, don't be so sure it was your lack of employment that scared them away. Most women reject 95% of men who approach them, regardless of employment prospects - usually because they don't like them or they don't find them attractive. C'est la vie!

Edited April 9, 2013 by SuperGeek

[Els]

I won't type anything else here because you seemed to have judged me from a single reply on this forum. I don't communicate with judgmental narrow minded people like yourself.

 

Except that it's not judgmental or narrow minded to make statements about all women based on the few women you have chosen to be in relationships with, amirite?

[SuperGeek]

Women reject guys without jobs regardless of happenstance or the situation. It is a generalization that holds true most of the time. My comment still stands.

 

Except that it's not judgmental or narrow minded to make statements about all women based on the few women you have chosen to be in relationships with, amirite?

[Keenly]

I swear to god, society is turning men into women, and then women complain when there aren't any men left....

 

You are contributing to this problem...

 

LET YOUR MAN BE A MAN, regardless of whether or not you understand it. I don't understand why women cry during movies.... am I going to demean them or argue with them about why they do it ? Nope. I accept it and move on.

[Els]

Women reject guys without jobs regardless of happenstance or the situation. It is a generalization that holds true most of the time. My comment still stands.

 

And I have pointed out the difference between that and what your ex did.

 

Any further generalizations?

 

For the record, no, if I met a man who was unemployed because he was, for instance, a full-time caregiver to his terminally ill mother, I would admire his choices. But then again I don't participate in OLD. OLD is not the world.

[SuperGeek]

In my experience, women rarely cared to hear the reason or circumstances as to why I was jobless. I was rejected the second I said I was unemployed. Even my SO at the time knew the circumstances and still walked out the door.

 

A year later she showed back up and tried to get things going again as she knew I had become financially successful again after selling off a new business I had created out of nothing. I rejected her offer.

 

And I have pointed out the difference between that and what your ex did.

 

Any further generalizations?

 

For the record, no, if I met a man who was unemployed because he was, for instance, a full-time caregiver to his terminally ill mother, I would admire his choices. But then again I don't participate in OLD. OLD is not the world.