Men and money

[Els]

In my experience, women rarely cared to hear the reason or circumstances as to why I was jobless.

 

This is much better. Thanks.

[foreverandalways]

Women reject guys without jobs regardless of happenstance or the situation. It is a generalization that holds true most of the time. My comment still stands.

 

 

Yes, I have to agree. Unless there is a circumstance that is acceptable for you not having a job.

 

I've been around many men who were probably perfectly acceptable as my boyfriend, but I viewed them differently and did not want to date them because they did not have a job.

 

I feel that all men should work and support themselves and their families. I think the woman should work too.

 

I definitely could not date a guy without a job, just because he doesn't have a job. What does he do all day??

 

Having a job is a feeling of self worth, and if he's too lazy to be successful, then I definitely dont want to be with him.

[LittleTiger]

It wasn't just one woman, but several over various periods of my life.

 

Of course my attitude was different after a business failure. People don't walk around happy as clams when they've had a business loss. It is a loss just like anything else and there are emotional phases everyone goes through.

 

If the girl I'm with can't _handle_ those emotional phases then she wasn't the girl for me.

 

Life has ups and downs and your statement below makes it sound like women only stay with men who are at the top of their game facing no adversity in life. I'm sorry but that isn't how the real world works!

 

I won't type anything else here because you seemed to have judged me from a single reply on this forum.

 

Then you agree with me that it perhaps wasn't the lack of a job or money that drove your then girlfriend away? That was really my only point. You're absolutely right that if a relationship doesn't work during times of stress then it won't work in the long run, although I wouldn't say it was necessarily that 'she couldn't handle it'. The dynamics of any relationship change with stressful circumstances and it takes both people to keep it running smoothly.

 

Of course women don't only stay with men at the top of their game. If that were the case, there would be a lot more marital and relationship breakdowns than there are in reality, especially in the current economic climate. Men and women in a strong, loving relationship will stay together no matter what - including financial ruin. Believe it or not, most of us are not gold diggers and we tend to put love before money.

 

I am sorry if you felt I judged you based on one post. You came across as bitter and resentful of women in general, seeming to believe that we are all the same and that none of us will stand by our man when the chips are down. That is completely unfair to women and being bitter about how one, or even several, women have treated you in the past will not improve your chances of finding love in the future.

 

If I misjudged you and you don't feel bitter that's great news - it's just how you came across.

[Zulnex]

Guys..ladies..anyone. Can anyone explain this macho bs to me? Why can't we be considered equal partners, and why should your job affect your dating life and your major decisions about your future so much? How can something like a small break in your career have SO much impact on what you want in regards to a relationship?

 

Well, I can say with absolute certainty that some careers (truck drivers, freight train and cargo ship crews) can severely impact your dating life and future.

 

I will use my career as an example. Being a long haul truck driver is a huge obstacle that prevents me from dating. Having only 36 hours off duty is very challenging. Being 5-6½ days on the road is physically and mentally draining.

 

Majority of my fellow drivers are divorced and some are in the process of doing so. I have met and talked with many of them. Amazingly, they share the same stories - their wifes/girlfriends left them because they were on the road for too long. I certainly understand their decisions and do not blame them at all. Like myself, many of them did not have any other job opportunities but had to do whatever they could to support themselves.

 

Squeezing a relationship in just 36 hours is extremely difficult and I will even dare to say - impossible.

 

Without a shadow of a doubt - I am not even thinking of dating until I get a job in my field (medic. lab.) or something similar.

I do not want my girlfriend to feel sad and lonely because I am on the road all the time.

Honestly, that would absolutely break my heart into a million pieces.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Zulnex

[ThatJustHappened]

Well, I can say with absolute certainty that some careers (truck drivers, freight train and cargo ship crews) can severely impact your dating life and future.

 

I will use my career as an example. Being a long haul truck driver is a huge obstacle that prevents me from dating. Having only 36 hours off duty is very challenging. Being 5-6½ days on the road is physically and mentally draining.

 

Majority of my fellow drivers are divorced and some are in the process of doing so. I have met and talked with many of them. Amazingly, they share the same stories - their wifes/girlfriends left them because they were on the road for too long. I certainly understand their decisions and do not blame them at all. Like myself, many of them did not have any other job opportunities but had to do whatever they could to support themselves.

 

Squeezing a relationship in just 36 hours is extremely difficult and I will even dare to say - impossible.

 

Without a shadow of a doubt - I am not even thinking of dating until I get a job in my field (medic. lab.) or something similar.

I do not want my girlfriend to feel sad and lonely because I am on the road all the time.

Honestly, that would absolutely break my heart into a million pieces.

 

So if you meet your dream girl, you're going to let her go because you don't have the right job at exactly the right time?

 

I HATE this mentality. Not everything can happen on your schedule. Why are you so willing to give up something amazing just because it came a little early?

[LittleTiger]

So if you meet your dream girl, you're going to let her go because you don't have the right job at exactly the right time?

 

I HATE this mentality. Not everything can happen on your schedule. Why are you so willing to give up something amazing just because it came a little early?

 

Men aren't the same as women TJH.

 

For most men, career and success takes a higher priority than a relationship. To say you hate that mentality is saying you 'hate' how men are. It would be equally unfair of a man to say he hates how women are so focused on settling down and having children.

 

If you can't accept that your guy isn't ready to settle down and you want it so badly, perhaps you are with the wrong guy.

[Amelie1980]

It wasn't just one woman, but several over various periods of my life.

 

Of course my attitude was different after a business failure. People don't walk around happy as clams when they've had a business loss. It is a loss just like anything else and there are emotional phases everyone goes through. If you lost your job, you can't sit here and tell me your emotional state wouldn't be impacted by it. If a business you poured your heart and soul into failed, you would be emotionally impacted by it. It's not the same as losing a loved one by any means, but there is still an impact.

 

If the girl I'm with can't _handle_ those emotional phases then she wasn't the girl for me. Life has ups and downs and your statement below makes it sound like women only stay with men who are at the top of their game facing no adversity in life. I'm sorry but that isn't how the real world works!

 

I won't type anything else here because you seemed to have judged me from a single reply on this forum. You are far too green in life and judgmental to even waste further keystrokes with this reply.

 

My last bf got made redundant when we were together.

 

He seemed ok but lost it at the end. Said he was in turmoil etc.

He rejected me...

I Would've stood by him.

[ThatJustHappened]

Men aren't the same as women TJH.

 

For most men, career and success takes a higher priority than a relationship. To say you hate that mentality is saying you 'hate' how men are. It would be equally unfair of a man to say he hates how women are so focused on settling down and having children.

 

If you can't accept that your guy isn't ready to settle down and you want it so badly, perhaps you are with the wrong guy.

 

That's an awfully broad generalization. I wasn't referring to men at all. I said I hate the mentality that if something doesn't happen at the perfect time, then it shouldn't happen at all. Things aren't always going to happen exactly on a person's schedule and not being able to deal with that is a control issue, not a male issue. There are plenty of female control freaks. It's not healthy to not be able to go with the flow. It makes it difficult for people to deal with emergencies or surprises.

 

Where in my post did I bring up my guy? I was contributing to a general discussion.

[ltjg45]

So if you meet your dream girl, you're going to let her go because you don't have the right job at exactly the right time?

 

I HATE this mentality. Not everything can happen on your schedule. Why are you so willing to give up something amazing just because it came a little early?

 

In this scenario, it makes perfect sense. How can he even keep his woman happy on 36 hours a week while the rest of that time is on the road working?

 

I don't think any woman wants to be 2nd place in front of his career and this one is exactly one of those kinds of careers. It's not like he can just do less hours and still keep his job.

 

Your scenario is different. Your man is there every day and can easily keep you happy. Even if he would find a job, he will have far more than 36 hours a week for your relationship.

 

So, yeah, if he wants to keep his job, he can't afford to be looking for a relationship or, if he does, the woman in question will have to know that her time with him will be very limited until he gets into a less-demanding career.

 

Most women is not going to accept that. If her needs is not met, she needs to find someone else and I'm sure spending time with her man is one of those needs.

[LittleTiger]

That's an awfully broad generalization. I wasn't referring to men at all. I said I hate the mentality that if something doesn't happen at the perfect time, then it shouldn't happen at all. Things aren't always going to happen exactly on a person's schedule and not being able to deal with that is a control issue, not a male issue. There are plenty of female control freaks. It's not healthy to not be able to go with the flow. It makes it difficult for people to deal with emergencies or surprises.

 

Where in my post did I bring up my guy? I was contributing to a general discussion.

 

I apologise if I misunderstood. Your reply was in response to a guy who had said he wanted his career to be established before he started dating, so I assumed it was directly related to that topic - especially since this was the initial starting point of your thread. The title is 'Men and money', and your original post referred to 'macho bs', which implies that your gripe was against men.

 

If your comment was about people in general (rather than men in particular) wanting to be in control of their own lives, what is the difference between a man wanting money and success before settling down, or a woman wanting things the other way around? Isn't it just a matter of priorities?

 

Your original question asked "Why should your job affect your dating life and your major decisions about your future?" The simple answer is that, for most of us, our job and financial status affects almost all decisions about our future. We all prioritise and, in general, men have different priorities than women. That's just a fact of life.

 

Going back to your original post, your guy sees the loss of his job as an emergency situation which, at least the first time it happened, led to him changing his mind about his planned future with you. He changed his plans based on his changed current circumstances ie he was going with the flow.

 

Isn't it you who is the rigid one if you assume that marriage and babies should continue regardless of changed financial circumstances? You might still have a job but you will have to take some time off to have your children. Somebody has to support the family then. What if his job prospects are still poor? Will you expect/ask him to be a stay at home Dad? Perhaps he doesn't see that role in his future so, for him, a steady, financially secure job is what he needs over and above everything else.

 

In my experience men will not settle down until they feel ready. Whatever feeling ready means to them. No woman, however special, will push a man to make that ultimate commitment until he is ready! I'm sure there are exceptions but, personally, I haven't come across one yet.

[ThatJustHappened]

I apologise if I misunderstood. Your reply was in response to a guy who had said he wanted his career to be established before he started dating, so I assumed it was directly related to that topic - especially since this was the initial starting point of your thread. The title is 'Men and money', and your original post referred to 'macho bs', which implies that your gripe was against men.

 

If your comment was about people in general (rather than men in particular) wanting to be in control of their own lives, what is the difference between a man wanting money and success before settling down, or a woman wanting things the other way around? Isn't it just a matter of priorities?

 

Your original question asked "Why should your job affect your dating life and your major decisions about your future?" The simple answer is that, for most of us, our job and financial status affects almost all decisions about our future. We all prioritise and, in general, men have different priorities than women. That's just a fact of life.

 

Going back to your original post, your guy sees the loss of his job as an emergency situation which, at least the first time it happened, led to him changing his mind about his planned future with you. He changed his plans based on his changed current circumstances ie he was going with the flow.

 

Isn't it you who is the rigid one if you assume that marriage and babies should continue regardless of changed financial circumstances? You might still have a job but you will have to take some time off to have your children. Somebody has to support the family then. What if his job prospects are still poor? Will you expect/ask him to be a stay at home Dad? Perhaps he doesn't see that role in his future so, for him, a steady, financially secure job is what he needs over and above everything else.

 

In my experience men will not settle down until they feel ready. Whatever feeling ready means to them. No woman, however special, will push a man to make that ultimate commitment until he is ready! I'm sure there are exceptions but, personally, I haven't come across one yet.

 

My point is a lot more simple than this. It's that there is no such thing as a perfect moment for something to happen, and I think it's wrong to let an opportunity go just because it doesn't fit into your schedule. I don't judge other people for their points of view, I just have trouble understanding them. I understand wanting to be financially secure before you get married and have children, and I understand that these things take planning..but I think you should trust the person you love to stick with you through the rough times and then do things when you're both ready.

 

Again, I am not referring to my own situation, I am referring to relationships in general (which I have been from the very start of this thread..I cited my own situation as an example but I did not ask for advice on it specifically). I've actually learned a lot from my experiences with my guy and I'm taking everything he says into consideration when I think about whether or not I want a future with him.

 

I don't consider myself rigid at all. I am the exact opposite in fact. I've had a TON thrown at me and I've dealt with it all as smoothly as can be expected. I actually consider myself quite adaptable.

[LittleTiger]

My point is a lot more simple than this. It's that there is no such thing as a perfect moment for something to happen, and I think it's wrong to let an opportunity go just because it doesn't fit into your schedule. I don't judge other people for their points of view, I just have trouble understanding them. I understand wanting to be financially secure before you get married and have children, and I understand that these things take planning..but I think you should trust the person you love to stick with you through the rough times and then do things when you're both ready.

 

Again, I am not referring to my own situation, I am referring to relationships in general (which I have been from the very start of this thread..I cited my own situation as an example but I did not ask for advice on it specifically). I've actually learned a lot from my experiences with my guy and I'm taking everything he says into consideration when I think about whether or not I want a future with him.

 

I don't consider myself rigid at all. I am the exact opposite in fact. I've had a TON thrown at me and I've dealt with it all as smoothly as can be expected. I actually consider myself quite adaptable.

 

What I'm trying to say, possibly not very clearly, is that what you consider an opportunity may not be what your boyfriend considers an opportunity. The same applies to any other couple where the guy backs out for whatever reason - and there are lots of reasons, besides lack of money or loss of a job, that he might back out. You may think that a wonderful romantic relationship with marriage and a family is the pinnacle of life's success, and therefore an opportunity not to be missed, someone else (your boyfriend?) may not.

 

Yes, ideally, we will all find a relationship with someone who will stand by us through thick and thin and we hope that we can trust them to do so, but not everyone is able to feel that level of trust or certainty in the future. Also, just because we may be in a committed relationship doesn't necessarily mean that we will want the same things at the same time as our partner. Sometimes that can mean "right partner, wrong time" and the couple breaks up, other times it can mean they stay together, but one partner has to wait for the other's "perfect moment". That's just how relationships are.

[ThatJustHappened]

What I'm trying to say, possibly not very clearly, is that what you consider an opportunity may not be what your boyfriend considers an opportunity. The same applies to any other couple where the guy backs out for whatever reason - and there are lots of reasons, besides lack of money or loss of a job, that he might back out. You may think that a wonderful romantic relationship with marriage and a family is the pinnacle of life's success, and therefore an opportunity not to be missed, someone else (your boyfriend?) may not.

 

Yes, ideally, we will all find a relationship with someone who will stand by us through thick and thin and we hope that we can trust them to do so, but not everyone is able to feel that level of trust or certainty in the future. Also, just because we may be in a committed relationship doesn't necessarily mean that we will want the same things at the same time as our partner. Sometimes that can mean "right partner, wrong time" and the couple breaks up, other times it can mean they stay together, but one partner has to wait for the other's "perfect moment". That's just how relationships are.

 

Yes, I know that's how relationships are. I am venting my frustration about that. Not asking for advice, and not judging anyone..just venting and looking for other points of view on the way people think in general (not about my personal situation). So thank you for your opinion.

[Zulnex]

So if you meet your dream girl, you're going to let her go because you don't have the right job at exactly the right time?

 

I HATE this mentality. Not everything can happen on your schedule. Why are you so willing to give up something amazing just because it came a little early?

 

If I meet my dream girl and she is fine with a job that I do for now, then I would honestly be one of the luckiest guys on earth and definitely wouldn't let her go.

That hasn't happened yet but I am not giving up.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Zulnex