Seperating

[worldgonewrong]

I agree with you 100% on everything you say. I am going to embrace the 180. She has already called numerous times asking how the kids are doing. After letting her sweat for an hour or 2 I have just replied with "good". Before I did this I was advised to send her a message telling her I knew what she brought with her, and I hope she wouldn't do anything irreparable. Actually, she just text me know asking again why I went thru her stuff. I will ignore.

 

Question. Do I cancel our scheduled MC session and tell her to make an appt when she wants to or do we go to it?

 

My take? Cancel the MC session. She took a rubber to eff another guy.

Period. And then you want to have a post-game chitchat with a 3rd party on this matter?

My God, man, RUN from this woman. Get your act together with your kids and other items, but RUN from her.

Because you're only going to continue to swim in a torrent of her own crazy-making nonsense.

[worldgonewrong]

Actually, she just text me know asking again why I went thru her stuff. I will ignore.

 

That's probably for the best.

Although if you're tempted, you could simply say "Because I do not trust you. And you have proven yourself un-trustworthy just as I suspected. This topic is now closed for discussion."

[ver13]

She is going away for a weekend with some friends. I thought I knew who was all going, but when they left this morning, the OM that I have been suspecting that she has had feelings for was in the group. I also am 100% certain that she brought a condom with her.

 

I have been following your thread and when I saw this I said to myself why is he still even dealing with this woman. Other then to workout co-parenting issues there is nothing left to discuss. It is time to split all the bills work on child care while you are at work and move on. The 180 only works when the other person still has some skin in the game. In this case she doesn't have anything to loss she already gave up. Let all the family know that your M is done due to her need to take condoms on her weekend with her friends, and move on with your head held high.

[ALAACJ]

Lots of varied opinion here. I can tell you that the 180 is already taking affect. I can also tell you that I am completely prepared for this thing to end in a divorce and I feel a ton better about it, like a weights been lifted off my chest. I also found it amusing that when my wife came home from the trip she was very angry, made up excuses about trying to hook up the OM with another friend and that somebody else walked her to her room every night and I could call them to ask. She said my actions this weekend were incredibly hurtful and she doesn't think she could ever forgive me and we should cancel the MC and just get a divorce now. I acknowledged her politely, said ok and I understand. I then said if there is nothing else she would like to discuss I was going for a jog then meeting a friend out for a drink. She looked shocked and really upset I didn't engage her. About 3 hours later, I get a text saying "now that I have cooled down, I am willing to go to 1 MC session to see how it goes, fair? After about an hour, I responded "sounds fair, let me sleep on it and get back to you tomorrow. My take, the weekend didn't quite go as planned, either she went threw with the affair and it wasn't as great as expected,the OM wasn't actually interested in it, or she chickened out because she knew I was on to her. I think the latter is what happened. My family is still telling me to hang in there, so I think I will keep the MC just to see how it goes. I'm not expecting much out of her though. I shall keep you posted. She also seems incredibly insecure and this new attitude of mine is really bothering her.

[Oberfeldwebel]

Counselling is a little self defeating until she gives up the other man. When she is ready to commit to the relationship 100%, then it is essential.

[ver13]

Lots of varied opinion here. I can tell you that the 180 is already taking affect. I can also tell you that I am completely prepared for this thing to end in a divorce and I feel a ton better about it, like a weights been lifted off my chest. I also found it amusing that when my wife came home from the trip she was very angry, made up excuses about trying to hook up the OM with another friend and that somebody else walked her to her room every night and I could call them to ask. She said my actions this weekend were incredibly hurtful and she doesn't think she could ever forgive me and we should cancel the MC and just get a divorce now. I acknowledged her politely, said ok and I understand. I then said if there is nothing else she would like to discuss I was going for a jog then meeting a friend out for a drink. She looked shocked and really upset I didn't engage her. About 3 hours later, I get a text saying "now that I have cooled down, I am willing to go to 1 MC session to see how it goes, fair? After about an hour, I responded "sounds fair, let me sleep on it and get back to you tomorrow. My take, the weekend didn't quite go as planned, either she went threw with the affair and it wasn't as great as expected,the OM wasn't actually interested in it, or she chickened out because she knew I was on to her. I think the latter is what happened. My family is still telling me to hang in there, so I think I will keep the MC just to see how it goes. I'm not expecting much out of her though. I shall keep you posted. She also seems incredibly insecure and this new attitude of mine is really bothering her.

 

It's good to see that you are in a good place with all of this in the end it is all about choice's. Your W choose to take a condom to a weekend out with friends. She also choose to attempt to chastise you when she got home because she didn't like your behavior. Now you are choosing to except whatever this woman has in store for you. At some point when do you stand up and say look I love you but enough is enough. How she is still living in the house with you after the whole weekend/condom drama is amazing. You say the 180 is working for you but look again at what you are dealing with and ask yourself is it really. Your W stayed through the weekend knowing that you were aware of the condom comes home and tells you she is pissed off. SMH

[Techie Artist]

She is going away for a weekend with some friends. I thought I knew who was all going, but when they left this morning, the OM that I have been suspecting that she has had feelings for was in the group. I also am 100% certain that she brought a condom with her.

 

Al, what you mention is not evidence. It's indication. You won't get the condom back. No evidence. His presence is circumstantial. No evidence. Get yourself some physical evidence like a text, photo, or something concrete.

[ALAACJ]

It's good to see that you are in a good place with all of this in the end it is all about choice's. Your W choose to take a condom to a weekend out with friends. She also choose to attempt to chastise you when she got home because she didn't like your behavior. Now you are choosing to except whatever this woman has in store for you. At some point when do you stand up and say look I love you but enough is enough. How she is still living in the house with you after the whole weekend/condom drama is amazing. You say the 180 is working for you but look again at what you are dealing with and ask yourself is it really. Your W stayed through the weekend knowing that you were aware of the condom comes home and tells you she is pissed off. SMH

 

I'm with you. I keep wondering what the hell I am doing here. I wonder what I am holding onto...The kids, the house, the lifestyle? All that changes if we divorce. I have had numerous conversations with family members where i have stated that i am done, there is nothing left, even if there really is no OM, there is no affair, the condom thing was actually just a misunderstanding, i am still done, I have put up with enough already and i deserve better and can do better. Everybody in both of our families has begged me to just hang on for a while, we both have strong Christian families that believe marriage is sacred. So, I have effectively checked out, but i will continue to tread water and see what happens next. If she miraculously switches her tune and goes all in for us, then it will talke a long time and an incredible amount of effort from her to continue as a couple. I have always had a lot of patience and an ability to put everybody else's needs in front of mine. So, just a little bit longer and then it is ME time. Is that reasonable?

[MsOptimist]

My take on her getting angry with you upon returning - she did do something and my guess is that it did go as planned. She's gas lighting you and using your snooping to find the condom as ammunition to further her own cause. It's something that she can blame on you and use to further detach and move towards divorce. That was just my initial reaction upon reading your account, but hopefully I'm wrong.

 

I'm glad that the 180 is working. No matter what happens she needs to get back to reality and see what she's doing.

 

I don't think you're being unreasonable by waiting it out a bit - you have kids and I'd think it would be way more traumatic if you abruptly changed the homefront if she suddenly moved out. Your situation is still very fresh and everything I read months ago said to not make big and rash changes during the height of your emotions.

[Car111]

My take on her getting angry with you upon returning - she did do something and my guess is that it did go as planned. She's gas lighting you and using your snooping to find the condom as ammunition to further her own cause. It's something that she can blame on you and use to further detach and move towards divorce. That was just my initial reaction upon reading your account, but hopefully I'm wrong.

 

I'm glad that the 180 is working. No matter what happens she needs to get back to reality and see what she's doing.

 

I don't think you're being unreasonable by waiting it out a bit - you have kids and I'd think it would be way more traumatic if you abruptly changed the homefront if she suddenly moved out. Your situation is still very fresh and everything I read months ago said to not make big and rash changes during the height of your emotions.

 

Everything MsOptimist says here seems quite logical to me. It does seem as though she is blaming you as a way to get the focus off herself. Hopefully you will learn more through the counselling session. Sometimes things come out. For whatever reason she brought the condom and that is not ok.

 

But you do have a lot at stake, as you have said, so it makes sense to thoroughly think and talk everything through before making a rash decision.

[ver13]

I'm with you. I keep wondering what the hell I am doing here. I wonder what I am holding onto...The kids, the house, the lifestyle? All that changes if we divorce. I have had numerous conversations with family members where i have stated that i am done, there is nothing left, even if there really is no OM, there is no affair, the condom thing was actually just a misunderstanding, i am still done, I have put up with enough already and i deserve better and can do better. Everybody in both of our families has begged me to just hang on for a while, we both have strong Christian families that believe marriage is sacred. So, I have effectively checked out, but i will continue to tread water and see what happens next. If she miraculously switches her tune and goes all in for us, then it will talke a long time and an incredible amount of effort from her to continue as a couple. I have always had a lot of patience and an ability to put everybody else's needs in front of mine. So, just a little bit longer and then it is ME time. Is that reasonable?

 

This say's it all you are human and you deserve respect stick with it as long as you can. Just remember that you are worth more then this crap that W is trying to put you through. If she continues to see the OM it's time for her to foot her own bill's etc...since she is choosing to live another life outside of the M. Help her out by telling her to be responsible for her new lifestyle.

[ALAACJ]

Really nice week away visiting my family and old friends. It was refreshing not having to cook or clean or take care of the kids or worry about an angry wife coming home. I did miss my kiddos though. That's for sure. I employed the 180, only engaging in logistical concerns and not responding to any of her angry, hate filled questions, demands, concerns. I didn't let her bait me into an argument when she told me she was back on the pill so her period wouldn't fall on race day and she didn't want me to get the wrong opinion. Or when she posted that she biked 30 miles before sunset, which would mean somebody else had to be in the house in case the kids woke up.

 

Marriage counseling tomorrow evening will be a very telling I indicator if this relationship has any chance of moving forward. I would have to see something incredible from her for that to be a possibility.

[worldgonewrong]

Marriage counseling tomorrow evening will be a very telling I indicator if this relationship has any chance of moving forward.

 

Her bringing a condom with her, not meant for you, was already a telling indicator.

I don't know what kind of alarm bells you need to ring louder.

[ver13]

Her bringing a condom with her, not meant for you, was already a telling indicator.

I don't know what kind of alarm bells you need to ring louder.

 

These few words say it all my friend heed them as you would the gospel if you are the relig type. MC is for the willing not the confused and the committed to crazy behavior type of individual.

[ALAACJ]

I am most definitely a christian, which is probably the only reason I am willing to see what marriage counseling can lead to. There are a million scenarios going thru my head, one of those, as unlikely as it may be, is that she didn't go thru with anything physical and she realized her mistake. This may be since my 7 year old daughter said this as soon as I got home from my trip. "Mommy says that you guys are going to be friends again after your meeting tomorrow." and my 3 year old son said as he was going to bed, "I want everybody to be together...mommy and daddy and me and my sisters." I still don't know if I can continue in a marriage after all that has transpired. Even if she didn't do anything physical, maybe she chickened out, maybe she was rejected, maybe I intervened at the right time and she couldn't do it knowing that I knew. Whatever the case, she did do something emotionally and was intending/open to/prepared to do something physical. But my point is, 10 years from now when my kids start to understand relationships and marriage and they ask us why we got divorced, I want to be able to say that I tried to keep this family together. Believe me, I am 95% certain we will end up divorced. Marriage counseling tonight will tell me if that 5% doubt goes to 0% or not.

[Car111]

I wish you all the best. Hopefully your MC will help guide you/help you see things more clearly. I think highly of you to realize so clearly what is at stake, with your family and children. It is not a decision to take lightly. I too have a family and I know that separation would be so difficult on everyone. If there is any chance of saving your marriage it is definitely worth looking into. I think the counselling will help you to, at the very least, be able to tell what your partners intentions are for your marriage.

[MsOptimist]

I completely agree with trying to exhaust every possibility of keeping the family together, you owe that to your kids and to yourself. I know that I needed to see my ex-husband's responses and attitude in the 1 counseling session we did together even though I was 99% sure he wasn't going to work on the marriage. I try to see the positives and in the beginning I'd wake up every day thinking/hoping I'd get that call/email/text that he realized he was making the biggest mistake of his life. Unfortunately I'm getting those messages NOW when it's way past the point of no return of ever being able to trust him again, considering everything he's done to shatter my trust and respect for him.

[ALAACJ]

MC was interesting. The session was bizarre and nothing really seemed to come out of it. But afterwards, the wife wanted to talk. We ended up talking for about 2.5 hours which is longer than we have talked in a long time. The talk was really good. She reitterated how she doesn't love me and I deserve to be with someone who does and the kids deserve to see parents together that are in love and affectionatte to one another. I told her that if I am being honest with myself, that when I look back I really don't know when the last time I felt loved or have felt a romantic connection with her. At one point I made a passive aggressive comment that was intended to hurt her. She said "I am disengaging now, you need to leave." (something that the counselor brought up to do). I said sorry and left quietly. After 15 minutes she asked me to come back to talk some more. I told her that that I just realized that she is probably going thru just as much pain as I am and I have not asked her how she is doing at all. That it took a lot of guts for her to do what she did and in the end however this ends up it is going to be for the best and that I would have probably lived the rest of my life in this relationship where I felt unloved and was unhappy and wasn’t receiving the type of affection that I deserved. She really seemed to appreciate that and said how glad she was that we can finally talk like this.

So, we kind of agreed to just give it a few months and see what happens. Continue to go to the counselor once a month and see what that does. We still need to work on the details and the rules, but I think we are now able to have open communication with each other.

So, I know I am a fool. I should turn away and never look back. The whole thing reeks of her cheating, but there were some specific topics that we talked about that led me to believe that nothing physical has happened yet. I know - some of you are shaking your head and thinking I am an idiot - I very well may be. But, since she is the mother of my children I want us to have the best relationship possible in the end - which would probably be an amicable friendship in which we can share the memorable moments of our childrens lives together.

[ALAACJ]

Hello Love Shackers...Here is my update. After our long talk last week, we had discussed the "rules" of our seperation. She had brought up dating other people. I told her I couldn't even think about dating other people right now and that was it. I realized shortly after that she was looking for permission. She wants to pursue other relationships but she wants to do it with a clean conscience (I know I am taking a leap that she didn't do anything on her previous trip). So, I brought up the issue of dating again tonight. Asked her how she felt. She said she was open to it. I told her in reply that as long as I wore a ring and was married to her that I would not date. I could not respect myself if I did. It would not be the Christian thing to do. It would be terrible to the other person. It would send the wrong message to the kids. She disagreed and said she knows of people who dated when they were seperated and now they are together and happier than ever. I said I was glad it worked out for them, but I would not date and I could not give her permission to date while I sat at home and hoped nothing would happen. An impasse was reached. I would not budge on this. She will not budge on this. I told her that if she really felt this way then we should call in the morning and file for divorce. She asked if she needed to make a decision right now. I told her to sleep on it, take a week, take a couple weeks, wait until our next Marriage counseling sesssion, but do not date in the mean time.

 

So the ball is completely in her court and she knows that I am comfortable with any decision that she makes. To me, it seems inevitable that this will end in divorce. I see a happy and exciting future if it does, endless possibilites - good and bad, depressing and exhilarating, lonely yet fulfilling, there is so much to life that I could explore and discover. Unencombered, I can find my own passions and desires. What will life bring? At the same time, I am still open to that small iota of hope that we reconcile and save our family and I can live the rest of my life as a devoted husband and a loving Father. Oh, what will life bring?

[MsOptimist]

She is definitely wanting to seek greener grass while trying to still keep you as an option and not have a guilty conscience about it all. Good for you for not waivering on your stance of no dating while separated. Everything that I have read said that separation terms must be agreed upon by both parties.

[ALAACJ]

The wife and I are trying to make it work now! I have been doing the love dare on her and been taking care of myself. I have thought about some of the hints she has given me over the last year that I have ignored and have taken action on them too. She said she looked at me the other night when I was with the kids and felt an attraction to me she hasn't felt in years. She then found a list I was making and started to have a change of heart. She also said that the fun she has had over the last 6 weeks has not quite been what she was looking for but that she has needs that I have not been fulfilling. We talked about that and ending up connecting on a whole different level than we ever have before and discovered a whole new side of each other that is exciting and adventurous.

 

There is still a lot to work out. A lot to forgive. A lot to try to move past. More than most people would be willing to. But we are going to take it one day at a time and see what happens. She has said on numerous occosians that she doesn't see us not being together and that she no longer has any desire to date outside of the marriage. She also said something that I have been thinking, that we should take a vacation, invite some close friends and family and renew our vows. This may be a big mistake, too much may have already happened, but I really feel like God had to completely tear down our old marriage so that we could build a new, better one in its place that is rooted in love and desire and friendship and family. Whatever happens, this is worth the try and these last 2 days have been magical. Once the magic wears off is when we will find out if what we have is sustainable. Wish us luck!!!

[Car111]

Wow, that all sounds really positive. Glad to hear things are going well with you. I just finished reading "5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. I found it very helpful. It basically states that people have different needs when it comes to what they require in order to feel loved. Check it out if you are interested, it has helped me and my husband a lot. BTW, what is the love dare?

 

Take care.

[ALAACJ]

Wow, that all sounds really positive. Glad to hear things are going well with you. I just finished reading "5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. I found it very helpful. It basically states that people have different needs when it comes to what they require in order to feel loved. Check it out if you are interested, it has helped me and my husband a lot. BTW, what is the love dare?

 

Take care.

 

Yes, everything is still very positive. Really unbelievable how things just turned around completely. My wife is even getting an overnight babysitter and booked a room at a spa and resort so we could have a romantic weekend together!

 

I have read several of Gary Chapman's books and the wife and I read the 5 love languages in a group bible study a few years back (we obviously didn't quite get the message at the time and/or lost track of things since) but it really is a good, insightful book for strenghening relationships.

 

The Love Dare is a 40 day challenge. Each day there is a different aspect of love that it focuses on, there is a daily devotional, and a small dare to perform, i.e "don't say anything negative today," "do an unexpected gesture," "buy something unexpected," "ask if there is anything you can do for your spouse," "work on how you greet your spouse to always show love" etc. The christian movie "Fireproof" with Kirk Cameron was about this love dare - terrible acting, but great message. The toughest part of the dare, especially in my situation is that my wife did not deserve this. She was completely checked out and focused on what else was out there. Many of these dares either went unnoticed or were rejected completely. It is very difficult to continue to try to show love when there is nothing in return. But, it really teaches you that true love does not need anything in return, that love can be given without condition. I recently learned that you cannot always control the plot in your life, in fact life often sucks - people get sick, accidents occur, people lie, cheat, and steal, jobs are lost, family gets torn apart. You can't control it all. But you can control your narrative. What would you rather want your narrative to be - anger, hatred, and resentment or love, forgiveness, and unyielding grace? Think about "Les Miserables" - one of the greatest stories ever written, transcendant of time and setting. Why? Because of the narrative. Unyielding grace. Jean Valjean did not deserve the grace that was bestowed upon him from the bishop after he stole all the silver. But grace was given without condition and it completely changed Jean Valjean's heart and from that he was able to pay this grace forward throughout the story.

My narrative could easily be different, I can be hateful and resentful and I can make my wife feel guilty about her actions and believe that she owes me now. I could have said I deserve better than this and pulled away and only focused on myself. It would be easy as these thoughts and feeling creep up, but I know they are not of God. So I pray for God to take this negativity and to fill me up with his love and his grace and to let it shine thru to others.

 

Sorry for the tangential. Still kind of on cloud 9 and not sure if/when this will wear off. But, Love and grace - that's all that is important.

[ALAACJ]

Well damn. The roller coaster continues. Learning new things everyday. How much can one person handle and move on from. Is there anything that is not forgivable. Can we still do this?

[2sunny]

How's the progress? Is your wife still participating with 100% of her renewed effort?

 

 

Your post says very little about what's really going on - be specific.