Back squat

[Emilia]

5/3/1 this week and the squats were shockingly bad on Monday. It is supposed to be de-loading week next week but I'm going to start buidling squats up again from about 50% of current 1RM just 3 reps each set and keep going up by 10lbs for each lift up to about 80% I think.

 

I've been doing plenty of ham & glutes raises, 'big and boring' (ie lots of squat and deadlift ets with lighter weight), step ups and core exercise but still lost confidence somehow.

 

If taking it apart next Monday doesn't work I'll talk to the coach. There are competitions coming up so he hasn't had time for us beginners much at the moment. Guess that shows as clearly my technique isn't consistent.

 

I'm following you on fitocracy now tman by the way, will build up the profile as it's blank at the moment

 

Deadlift 5/3/1 tomorrow and got to the point where from about 85% upwards I need to use alternate grip otherwise the bar slips out of my hands even with chalk.

 

Been eyeing up the decline bench for abs... running out of excuses not to use it

[tman666]

Yeah, we all have days like that... Sucks, but it's unavoidable sometimes, even if the reasons are unknown.

 

How has your body been feeling? I.e., are your joints and muscles feeling ok?

 

If you're not actively hurting, how has your "pop" been during these training sessions? Do you feel like you're able to bring a good level of explosiveness and intensity, or does it feel slow and grueling?

 

If you're feeling slow a lot, you might want to reconsider how much assistance work you're doing. Boring But Big (BBB in 5/3/1 shorthand) is a very non-specific type of template, the intention being that you're practicing motor patterns and basically just "doing work" on those movements.

 

One mistake that I think some people tend to make, including myself, is going too heavy on assistance work and/or doing too much. Basically, if your assistance work is cutting too heavily into your ability to recover from a session, and therefore negatively affecting your main lift progression, it sort of defeats the purpose, at least through a powerlifting lens. Bodybuilding is a completely different game than powerlifting in terms of the approach and main goals.

 

The first thing, in my opinion, is to determine whether or not you simply had an "off" day (which happens), or if you've been losing ground for some time now. I wouldn't change anything in your training based on just one day.

[Emilia]

Yeah, we all have days like that... Sucks, but it's unavoidable sometimes, even if the reasons are unknown.

 

How has your body been feeling? I.e., are your joints and muscles feeling ok?

 

If you're not actively hurting, how has your "pop" been during these training sessions? Do you feel like you're able to bring a good level of explosiveness and intensity, or does it feel slow and grueling?

This is it. I do get tired. Less tired this week as my body has perhaps got used to it during the second cycle of 5/3/1 more but the last couple of weeks I've been tired and haven't spent that much in the normal gym outside these power lifting sessions.

If you're feeling slow a lot, you might want to reconsider how much assistance work you're doing. Boring But Big (BBB in 5/3/1 shorthand) is a very non-specific type of template, the intention being that you're practicing motor patterns and basically just "doing work" on those movements.

I've been lifting 40% for BBB but said to one of my mates that I have been feeling more tired, especially after the deadlift BBB. It's on Thursday and because I go to the gym once between Thursday and Monday's squat session, I don't feel I recover enough in between. I've said to my mates that I've started feeling this way since we started BBB.

One mistake that I think some people tend to make, including myself, is going too heavy on assistance work and/or doing too much. Basically, if your assistance work is cutting too heavily into your ability to recover from a session, and therefore negatively affecting your main lift progression, it sort of defeats the purpose, at least through a powerlifting lens. Bodybuilding is a completely different game than powerlifting in terms of the approach and main goals.

 

The first thing, in my opinion, is to determine whether or not you simply had an "off" day (which happens), or if you've been losing ground for some time now. I wouldn't change anything in your training based on just one day.

Maybe TMI but it was also the heaviest day of my period (sorry ) on Monday.

 

I think I'll still experiment a bit next Monday rather than just do de-load as I think it's deadlifts that affect my overall week anyway but I definitely take our point.

 

If it continues I think it is the assistance exercise. Will know soon enough.

 

Thank you as always!

[tman666]

Ahhh, yes, the ol' period trick.

 

My girl ALWAYS has a shyte day in the gym if she's within a few days before or after her period starting. Comes with the territory I guess.

 

Have you considered maybe switching to what Wendler calls the "triumvirate"?

 

Despite the stupid sounding word, I've found this to be the most effective way (for me, mind you) to keep everything feeling fresh with 5/3/1. Basically you do 3 exercises for the day. The first one, obviously, is your main 5/3/1 lift for the day. The other two exercises are chosen to compliment the main lift.

 

For example, if your main lift is squats, I'd pick something like dumbbell lunges or leg press as one of the assistance lifts, and RDLs or glute ham raises as the second lift. Both would be done for something like 5x15 or 4x12 (i.e. not especially heavy).

 

As you can see, the total volume would be similar, but you'd hopefully be choosing assistance work other than your main lift, which is already trained through the 5/3/1 sets.

 

IDK, I suppose each person just needs to find out what works best for them.

[Emilia]

IDK, I suppose each person just needs to find out what works best for them.

I do squats and bench on Mondays plus 4 assistance and one of those is BBB for squats; deadlifts and press on Thursdays plus 4 assistance and one of those is BBB for deadlifts. Plus abs at the very end both on Mondays and Thursdays. You think that's too much?

 

Then once or twice a week running, abs, pushups, assistance, rows and will do pull ups too now

[tman666]

I do squats and bench on Mondays plus 4 assistance and one of those is BBB for squats; deadlifts and press on Thursdays plus 4 assistance and one of those is BBB for deadlifts. Plus abs at the very end both on Mondays and Thursdays. You think that's too much?

 

Then once or twice a week running, abs, pushups, assistance, rows and will do pull ups too now

 

Far be it from me to tell you if it's too much or not, but I suspect that you'd feel better if you split your training into 3 or 4 days per week instead of trying to double up on 5/3/1 lifts 2 days per week.

 

I was starting to run into the same problems with Texas Method, because I was (by necessity as dictated by my energy levels) always training squats first before bench and deadlift variations (all on the same day). The problem is that over time, I was finding that while I was getting stronger on my squats, I didn't have a lot left in the tank to effectively train bench or deadlifts. As such, my squat bench and deadlift sort of stalled, despite my great gains on squats.

 

Again, I don't know what the right answer is (I'm also on this journey of finding out what works and what doesn't), but it might be worth considering going to a 3 or 4 day training week. If you do 3 days per week, I wouldn't double up on any of the sessions. I'd just continue from where you left off the week before.

[Emilia]

Again, I don't know what the right answer is (I'm also on this journey of finding out what works and what doesn't), but it might be worth considering going to a 3 or 4 day training week. If you do 3 days per week, I wouldn't double up on any of the sessions. I'd just continue from where you left off the week before.

 

I would prefer 3 days a week but it's to do with the way this gym is set up

 

It is only open I think 4 nights a week 6-8pm, it's run by the local council and I could train 3 days but I would have to commit to Saturdays and I like weekends away.

 

So my options are: Mondays/Thursdays or Mondays/Thursdays/Saturdays. Hence my picking the former.

 

I am considering looking for another place but really like this one plus it's amazing value for money. Convenient location too.

 

edit: I really like my training partners too

Edited July 3, 2013 by Emilia

[Emilia]

Ok in the meantime my 10 week-course has finished (we sign up for 'terms' at a time) and while training in the summer continues, I've decided to postpone it until the new term in September.

 

Going back to boxing and need the energy during weekends for windsurfing. Will update this again tman when I'm re-starting training.

[krz12]

I just started doing squats for the first time. My legs are pretty weak, so I started with 135, 5 sets of 8-10.

 

2 days later they are still burning.

 

I tried this front squat thing, but I had trouble holding and balancing the bar with the hand position posted in the picture. I think I was using a chin up grip (palms facing me), rather than palms facing outward, so maybe that is why I was struggling.

 

 

Is this something that's easier to do with 50-60 lb dumbbells?

 

Also, while I've iced my ankles/knees after jogging, I've never iced after lifting weights before. Any upper body lifting I've done results in soreness only for a day or so. Will that help with recovery time?

Edited July 22, 2013 by krz12

[tman666]

I just started doing squats for the first time. My legs are pretty weak, so I started with 135, 5 sets of 8-10.

 

2 days later they are still burning.

 

I tried this front squat thing, but I had trouble holding and balancing the bar with the hand position posted in the picture. I think I was using a chin up grip (palms facing me), rather than palms facing outward, so maybe that is why I was struggling.

 

 

Is this something that's easier to do with 50-60 lb dumbbells?

 

I have issues with wrist mobility as well, so I have a hard time really training front squats. I find that goblet squats are a decent substitute, but you tend to be limited in the amount of weight you can do.

 

Dumbbells/kettlebells can make it easier on the wrists and still mimic a front squat.

 

If you must train them due to necessity (such as in Oly. lifting), shoulder/lat mobility becomes really crucial.

[tman666]

I just started doing squats for the first time. My legs are pretty weak, so I started with 135, 5 sets of 8-10.

 

2 days later they are still burning.

 

I tried this front squat thing, but I had trouble holding and balancing the bar with the hand position posted in the picture. I think I was using a chin up grip (palms facing me), rather than palms facing outward, so maybe that is why I was struggling.

 

 

Is this something that's easier to do with 50-60 lb dumbbells?

 

Also, while I've iced my ankles/knees after jogging, I've never iced after lifting weights before. Any upper body lifting I've done results in soreness only for a day or so. Will that help with recovery time?

 

Icing tends to be more effective, in my experience, for joint soreness than muscle soreness. You might try a contrast shower or an Epsom salt bath though.

 

Overall, soreness happens despite your best efforts. Just stay mobile (this is huge), eat/sleep/hydrate well, and keep training.

[TheFinalWord]

I just started doing squats for the first time. My legs are pretty weak, so I started with 135, 5 sets of 8-10.

 

2 days later they are still burning.

 

I tried this front squat thing, but I had trouble holding and balancing the bar with the hand position posted in the picture. I think I was using a chin up grip (palms facing me), rather than palms facing outward, so maybe that is why I was struggling.

 

 

Is this something that's easier to do with 50-60 lb dumbbells?

 

Also, while I've iced my ankles/knees after jogging, I've never iced after lifting weights before. Any upper body lifting I've done results in soreness only for a day or so. Will that help with recovery time?

 

135 is good!

 

This is my favorite technique for front squats

 

Option one described by Christian...

 

[StandingO]

It is nice to read all this progress.

Hurt my lower back by lifting fatigued. Introduced barbell lunges. Up from dumbbell lunges. The old man ain't what he used to be lol. Something moved and now all it tight as a snear drum. ouch.

[krz12]

Bump for the great advice for the last few posts.

 

I covered legs again tonight; I've been doing legs once a week thus far, and I am slowly increasing the weight/reps.

 

 

Couple more points:

 

 

1. What are the thoughts on calf raises on the leg press? I tend to think the leg press is worthless for leg pressing, but tonight I went for 4 sets of 235x15. I have skinny calves.

 

2. What are the thoughts on alternating dumbbell lunges? I followed up my squats with lunges tonight, and I go until I no longer have the strength to fully 'step back' so to speak (usually 8-12 reps).

 

 

 

 

 

Also, for anyone else who is new, your recovery time vastly improves after the first or second time. 2 weeks ago I couldn't even sit my ass in a chair without cringing and supporting body weight with my hands. Now I have some sizable soreness but at least I can walk.