counseling counseling counseling

[fredrolin]

I really get irritated when people on Forums say "go get counseling".

 

One of the reasons people come to these boards are for advice without having to see a counselor.

 

My wife and I have been through counseling and it was worthless. I think it may have made things worse.

 

I have gotten good advice from these boards and I feel I have helped people on this and many other boards.

[Leikela]

That's a good point and that works for some people. However, there are two sides to a coin. Counseling might not have worked for you, but it has worked wonders for other people. I'm sure Jmargel can interject here. Just because it's not for you doesn't mean others don't benefit from it.

[goofylove]

I was apprehensive about counceling in the beginning when it was brought up because I've heard of times when a councelor will actually end up braking up a marriage that could have been saved, with wrong advice.

 

I realize it's a different situation for everyone, and I am willing to see a councelor if that's what really helps a rocky relationship.

[moimeme]

Some people don't realize that what they're going through is not 'normal'. Counsellors can help them get perspective. Some people have big, big problems that can't possibly be dealt with properly by posters on a board. Among other things, we aren't seeing and speaking to the people and we aren't skilled in any sort of psychological counselling. Some people describe signs of psychological ailments that need diagnosis and appropriate treatment which will help them much, much more than anything any of us can say.

 

But, as for every other profession, there are some counsellors who aren't great at their jobs. The same can be said of some dentists and some doctors and some plumbers. The best idea is to get a referral, if you can, from someone who has been happy with their treatment. It's critical that you get along well with your medical professional of any sort and that you have confidence in his or her abilities. I'm sorry you didn't like your experience, but lots of folks who have gone to counselling at LSers' suggestions were glad they did.

[tiki]

I think counciling/therapy is overrated. I think people throw it out as a primary options all too often. I do realize that some people need it, and I do think that to a point of destruction it should be utilized. But not everyone needs counciling!

[guest]

counseling/therapy can indeed be very overrated although for some i know, it's been extremely helpful. i know a number of couples who have been through couples therapy and i can't think of any couple that it helped long term. it helped briefly, they learned to overlook each other's faults and indescretions, care about each other again, etc., etc., etc. but for ALL... within months after ending therapy their problems returned and in fact, in some ways they felt worse because they felt like they'd tried "everything" and "nothing" worked. and were left not knowing which way to go.

 

yes, there are some who can benefit, but for many couples who have simply grown apart their differences may be too great. people change and sometimes can't or won't change back to the people they were when they married.

 

that said, let me also say that i am a counselor. i don't do marriage or couples counseling but i spend my days trying to help others get control over their problems and find solutions. i work in an office with a number of other counselors and can say that our approaches, techniques, whatever are as different as night and day. and my approach doesn't work for everyone, nor does their's. many seem to see threapy like getting a "pill" that's going to fix things. there may be one common drug but it doesn't necessarily work for everyone. it's always tempting to say that people need to find a thereapist that fits them. but when you're paying somewhere around $100 an hour most of us can't afford to "shop" around.

 

and... that said....i have been in threapy myself, tried it for 2years and found it to be a useless and incredibly expensive process. the therapist came highly recommended. but by the end all i felt like i was doing was giving a "recap" of what had happened to me that week. i used to joke around with friends that she was my "paid" friend. i paid her to listen to me.

 

please don't get me wrong, i do recognize that there are some who need help, medication, whatever to get through their issues and simply talking about it can help many. what frustrates me is the fact that in some failing marriages, including mine, people tried to tell me that i was depressed and just needed some prozac. what i finally realized, on my own which i had suspected and voiced to others all along, was that it was not the fact that i was "depressed" that was causing trouble in my marriage but that my marriage was making me sad and angry, a big difference. i ended my marriage, much to my therapist's dismay and felt like a huge weight had been lifted. that rock in my stomach began to shrink.

 

so yes, for some it's beneficial and perhaps necessary but it is NOT the cure all and is way too easily thrown out as something that is going to fix everything! and those who don't go to couples therapy can be viewed as not really having tried. i don't believe that, at all!!

[moimeme]

No, not 'everybody' needs COUNSELLING but then again it isn't suggested to 'everybody'.

[Leikela]

Hey Guest,

 

That must suck to be in a career you don't believe in. You basically just discredited counseling, yet you are one yourself. How ironic...

[fredrolin]

Originally posted by guest

and... that said....i have been in threapy myself, tried it for 2years and found it to be a useless and incredibly expensive process. the therapist came highly recommended. but by the end all i felt like i was doing was giving a "recap" of what had happened to me that week. i used to joke around with friends that she was my "paid" friend. i paid her to listen to me.

 

 

 

my parents made me go to counseling when I was 17-18 and it was such a waste of time and money.

 

I think the doctor was just milking my parent's medical insurance. I too would just tell the doctor about my week and he never gave me solutions to my problems.

 

--

 

my wife and I went to counseling a few months ago and that was another big waste of time. The doctor used a method called "solution based therapy". He didn't want to get to the root of the problems, just find a quick solution to the basic problems. We would focus on one problem a week and work on it. We failed.

[Craig]

Some marriage counsellors I went to were just "paid friends" and didn't seem to direct the therapy. One was good but by that time it was too late for my marriage and I doubt that it could have been saved in any case.

 

The only truly good to awesome counsellors that I experienced had been through situations similar to what I was going through themselves and had a keen interest in my challenges.

 

There are good and bad counsellors out there and I guess we as clients should be more careful when it comes to choosing which one to go back to. The best counsellors had empathy, understanding and insight regarding my situation and demonstrated that in the very first session.

 

If I were to choose another counsellor I would definitely demand a free initial consultation of say 30 minutes and would go with the counsellor that showed empathy, understanding and insight in that first meeting and steer very clear of someone who just wanted to be my "paid friend."

[guest]

leikela - as you may, or may not have noticed from my post, i'm NOT involved in marriage or couples therapy. the counseling that i do is looked down on by many in my profession as being "safe." i don't deal, as frequently with crisis, suicides, etc as do most. my choice, i wanted a family and knew it wasn't a good fit. people in crisis need help.

 

as in any profession, from garbage collectors to doctors, from mechanics to lawyers, some are better than others and it's impossible to just say in a blanket statement that counseling is the cure to everything. which i believe that some may feel. it is NOT the answer to everything, which is / was my point. yes, i have major problems with my profession, partly because in many states it is possible to "hang out your shingle" saying counselor/therapist with having had absolutely, positively no training what-so-ever. if that doesn't scare you, it should. it is also a profession (and i could "pick" on one specific method of training) that leads it's trained therapists to be on a major ego trip. it is also a profession that tends to attract as many people who "need" help as it does those who want to "give" help. there were more f'd up people in my graduate program than i had ever experienced before.

 

counseling is an area where one size really doesn't fit all! and unfortunately, as i said before, it's too expensive for people to shop around for a therapist who will be best for them. they charge too much. i work on a salary, and we don't charge.....

 

it is because of some of those are reasons why i went into it. no, not because i needed therapy but because i saw so many things wrong with the field and was firmlly committed to the fact that i knew i could do what i could to help people. i can't change or improve my profession on my own, but for the few people's lives i can touch and help make better, i do what i can. i know my limits, i know the limits of my profession. much like drs. can't fix everything, counselors can't either. just because a physician doesn't believe that all physicians are good, and that seeing a dr. is necessary for everything, it doesn't mean that they are discounting their profession. so no, i don't find it sad to be in this profession and i don't discount counseling in general but it is overrated and not appropriate for all. and actually, i love my job and the people it brings me in touch with. i love being able to see the lightbulb go off when someone has discovered something about themselves, i love watching people learn to solve their own problems, and i love the fact that i can make a difference. but i'd be an idiot to say that all the people in my profession are in it for that reason!

[Leikela]

I understand what you're saying Guest. I am in the field also but I work with kids who are physically and sexually abused at a child advocacy center. You are right when you say the field attracts many people who are messed up. I've seen my share of that as well.

 

With my post, I was just expressing my opinion on how sort of contradictory your statements seemed regarding counseling when you are a counselor yourself. It doesn't matter what kind of counselor you are because the goal of all counselors is the same thing= to help people.

 

However, I understand where you're coming from and can relate. A friend of mind is an addictions counselor and the success rate with addictions is 3% if you're lucky. That's not a real confidence builder but I guess it's the hope that he's making a difference for at least some people is what keeps him going.

 

No profession is flawless, but you're still going to have the good people among the sour apples. It's the sour apples that seem to get all the attention though, which is ashame for the rest of us who are really making a difference.

[findinmyway]

Yes, there are good counselors and bad counselors. And, yes, it sometimes spouted off too quickly as a solution here on LS. There are a couple of people who immediately respond with "go to counseling"....to EVERYTHING. That's annoying.

 

I also think that the successfulness of a person's counseling experience greatly depends on their own state of mind. I have seen a couple of marriage counselors. My H convinced me to just before we decided to get a D. He really wanted to save our marriage, and I think the counseling was very good for him. I didn't want to, I had been having an affair and my judgement was seriously clouded. It didn't help me at all.

 

There are just too many factors to consider when judging whether or not counseling is good or bad, effective or ineffective.

[guest]

leikela -

i apologize if my original response to you seemed somewhat harsh. unfortunately the setting i work in (a university) is at times, like today, politically charged... and it was one of those mornings!!!

 

i spent a year as an undergraduate working with the population you work with and i have the utmost respect for those that deal with that population. it tore at my heartstrings too much and i decided for my own mental health, that it was not a population i could work with long term. so kudos to you!!! i mostly just wanted to strangle the parents who were inflicting such pain (in all ways) on these poor innocent kids.

 

craig -

i also believe that empathy and insight is in many cases the best approach. too many counselors lack that capapbility and seem to believe that they can rely on "theory" - that things are a certain way because of certain things and should be dealt with a certain way to create change. they lose sight of individual differences. the "perscription," if you will, for one person, or couple, does not work for all. too frequently issues are bandaided and the underlying issues, or differences, are not dealt with. over time, perhaps they get to that level of issues, but for most, time is not a friend to a failing marriage.

 

at the same time, counselors, such as mine, believed that many of my issues with my marriage had to do with the fact that i had been raped, had some major health issues and had never dealt with some other things in my past. and i'll admit that those do color my view of the world. but it was my own realization that my now ex husband was just a no-good lying piece of sh*t and my dealing with my own issues wasn't going to change that, or him. she had encouraged me not to leave him, that i needed to deal with my own issues first. unfortunately, instead of making things more bearable at home, it made things worse. as i felt myself getting stronger my patience with him grew shorter. somewhere on another thread i saw someone refer to some people as emotional vampires. that pretty much describes my ex. he sucked the life out of me. and i am so, so thankful, that i got out of it so i could then deal with my other issues, not the other way around.

 

i received so much grief from people for ending my marriage without going to marriage therapy. people told me i gave up too easily, that i didn't give him a chance. he** i thought 11 years was enough. i couldn't "fix" him, it was who he is and since he refused to recognize that anything was wrong with him (it was all me) couples therapy was pointless. ironically some of these same people who were so hard on me have since realized his shortcomings and now that he's getting remarried i've heard them say things to me like...."he's never dealt with what went wrong in his first marriage" and they believe he's headed for disaster again (BTW, he's also a counselor!!!)

 

i do sincerely hope that those who really would benefit from counseling do continue to seek it out. but go into it with an open mind and perhaps the knowledge of what they need to be successful. craig, you've got the right idea, you know what type of person will be most helpful for you to find a match that works. unfortunately most don't recognize that until they're in the process and not making any headway.

[Leikela]

Originally posted by guest

leikela -

i apologize if my original response to you seemed somewhat harsh. unfortunately the setting i work in (a university) is at times, like today, politically charged... and it was one of those mornings!!!

 

i spent a year as an undergraduate working with the population you work with and i have the utmost respect for those that deal with that population. it tore at my heartstrings too much and i decided for my own mental health, that it was not a population i could work with long term. so kudos to you!!! i mostly just wanted to strangle the parents who were inflicting such pain (in all ways) on these poor innocent kids.

 

Hi Guest,

 

No need to apologize. I totally understand! It's definitely not easy seeing the abuse of these kids all the time and when I first started (2 and a half years ago) I didn't think I'd make it past the first year. I showed all the signs of burnout. Anger, distancing myself, it was affecting my life outside work, etc... I however hung in there and found a way on my own to cope with it all. I definitely won't spend the rest of my career working with abused kids, but for now it works for me.

 

You're right too about the open mind. Everything is psychological and if you go into counseling thinking it won't work, it won't but if you go in there thinking it will really help and the counselor is the right match for you then I believe progress can be made. Personally I think marriage counseling is the most common form of counseling to fail. It's hard enough to get one person on the right track but trying to get two people on the right track about one another? That's a challenge.

[findinmyway]

It's hard enough to get one person on the right track but trying to get two people on the right track about one another? That's a challenge.

 

Exactly. Seems like for the past 3 yrs, every time my H or I want to work on things, the other person is at a different stage in our lives. We just can't get it together, and counseling hasn't been able to make that happen either.

[Matilda]

I tend to recommend counseling a lot because it has been a great help to me. I will say that I have been to a couple of counselors who did basically nothing. Also, my ex and I went to marriage counseling, and still wound up divorcing. I do think the marriage counseling was helpful even so, because there was an objective person who was telling him his behavior was unacceptable (abusive). Before that he thought I was being too sensitive. But it didn't make him change his behavior.

 

According to this link, research shows that marriage counseling isn't very effective.

 

http://marriage.about.com/cs/advice/a/marcounsel.htm

 

The science of marital counseling is being studied in great detail these days. Research is showing that it is not as effective as people think, that women seem to get more from it than men, and that it might not have a lasting effect on the couple's marriage.

 

What type of couple gets the most from couple therapy? The answer is young, non-sexist, still in love, open couples.

 

Which couples receive the least from therapy? Some factors that can make couple therapy unsuccessful include couples who wait too long before seeking help, and often one or the other is set on getting a divorce and is closed to any suggestions that may save the marriage.

 

I have had a lot of success with individual therapy though. I highly recommend cognitive therapy. It helped me to get rid of some persistent negative thoughts I was having. The counselor was crucial, as she helped me to realize that the thoughts I was having were unrealistic.

 

The other time it was particularly helpful, was shortly after my divorce from my 1st husband. The counselor helped me realize that no matter how wrong my ex-husband's behavior was/is, my being angry and resentful about it would not do anything to change it. She helped me see how my anger was hurting myself and my daughter. She also gave me some different strategies for dealing with my ex. My ex and I continue to have a good relationship in parenting our daughter, so that counseling experience resulted in a lasting positive change.