MissBee Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) the very fact that someone could be waiting and hoping would tend to imply that they are not 100% happy with the way things are right now...I know for myself that I wouldn't be happy waiting for years and years for someone to finally get their life in order...but that's just me. Eventually one reaches a point where someone has to make the decision for them...do they pick door number one or door number 2? Neither me, but maybe it's your life stage too? Pierre made a comment about older women and people jumped on him, but I understood what he meant in some ways. I think for example, if I have been married before, my kids are grown, and I'm 60...maybe my mindset will be such that having an A for years is fine and doesn't feel like my life is on hold. It's not that older women are desperate, but maybe for some, they are in no rush. And of course, not every older woman is this way, maybe for some they very much have no time to waste either...depending on what they want. But it does make sense that maybe a younger woman who has never married or had kids has more to lose waiting for a married man than an older woman who has already BTDT. For me, I'm in my twenties, I want to get married, have a family of my own, I'm forging my career and ANY man I'm in a serious relationship with, has to be on the same page, wanting similar things and has to be able to come with me on this journey and we should be able to plan a life together. Therefore a 7 years A right now for me would be a utter waste of time and would really interfere with my plans for myself. Edited April 25, 2013 by MissBee 7 Link to post Share on other sites
SidLyon Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Obviously a man who loves one woman but stays with another has some issues he needs to work on. That doesn't mean you have to give up on him. True love means you stay by him. After 7 years he told her, he didn't throw me under the bus and he is now getting his own apartment. Has he actually found the apartment, signed the lease (or whatever) and moved out? Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) Again...It all boils down to a simple fact...The only constant here is that EMA's are tacitly wrong. Dead wrong. Sure, people get hurt and lives turned upside down ...No argument..Its carved in stone...No need to outline the reasons why. Its been discussed ad nauseum... Once that bridge is crossed, where is the "rulebook" that says you need to wait X amount of time and you need to spend X amount of time invested in seeing one another during the A.?...Its all irrelevant. Who leaves and why? Who cant, who won't...etc... In the case of the previous poster, if the xMM told her to stand on her head for 7 years then they'll happily ride off into the sunset, who cares as long as it "worked" for them? Who knows, maybe the MM decided to stall until his kids were old enough. Or maybe he made a deal with the BS to stay together for the same reason. Who knows and who cares. Sure, it might be outwardly stupid, but people do stupid things every day and nobody says anything. Milliions spend $100 a carton on cigarettes . You want to talk about dumb and damaging behavior...We can go on forever. Another person can say no way and they arent putting their life on hold for anyone. Thats great..That shows great self discipline and control. Then they might proceed to spend the next seven years in dead end relationships and bad dates looking for that "special someone" and accomplish nothing towards reaching their "goal"? OK , you have your dignity so good for you. Just forge on and forget about it. Reality is you are no further along than the idiot that waited 7 years except she now has a shot at a R with someone she loves and has a history. Whos right and who's wrong? dont know and dont care. Each party did what was in their comfort zone. None of their decisions had any bearing on my life or anyone else's outside of the two participants and the people in their lives. Bottom line is decide whats best for yourself and try not to be too judgemental. Their path might not follow conventional wisdom and in fact be downright stupid.., but if they aren't pissing on my front porch then do whatever works for them. TFY Edited April 25, 2013 by thefooloftheyear 8 Link to post Share on other sites
waterwoman Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 . Bottom line is decide whats best for yourself and try not to be too judgemental. Their path might not follow conventional wisdom and in fact be downright stupid.., but if they aren't pissing on my front porch then do whatever works for them. TFY And that is exactly the same for all these stories. I won't tell an OW that she's wasting her time waiting for her chap to leave his current partner. I would appreciate others not telling me I'm a mug for reconciling. We do whatever works for us and undoubtedly many of us make mistakes. But that's OK too - humanum est errare and all that. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I'm sorry but if someone is gaining their happiness by knowingly hurting others and not caring, they don't deserve happiness or to profit from it. I will judge them and judge them negatively. That is part of what is wrong with this world anymore, everyone saying, well it's not my problem, it doesn't affect me and my life so who cares. But it falls on deaf ears. If you are okay with just saying your piece, to say your piece, then more power to you. But if you are saying it because you actually want to effect change then, frankly, you need to change your approach. There are two groups of people in relationships, those that are happy and those that are not. For those that are not happy, asking probing questions will get them to think about what they are thinking, doing, feeling and will actually get you to help them to your line of thinking (potentially). The other group, you can rant, rave, scream, yell, cajole, condemn, suggest, etc. and it isn't going to amount to a hill of beans because you are an unknown voice on an internet forum. So, honestly, who cares? At most it becomes harassing, at the least it is mildly annoying, and usually it falls somewhere in between for the reader. If they see the sky is green, no amount of telling someone that it is actually blue is going to change it. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I meant to say...waiting does not literally mean you quit your job, throw away your friends, buy some cats and sit watching the clock of MM's choice . My friend was in an almost 5 years A...waiting for him to decide to divorce and marry her. In that time she did lots of things, traveled around the world, had fun, had a life, is a doctoral candidate, formed an organization etc. Exactly! It feels sometimes as though it's portrayed as the OW held captive in a little cage in the corner and MM chuckles as he drives off in to the distance, to get loved-up with his wife, holding the key to the cage in his pocket... Not my experience. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 You're not seriously suggesting that I waited for 7 years, are you? Yeah, that thought is laughable! I'm "waiting" to pay off my mortgage.... good job that's not all I've got going on in my life 1 Link to post Share on other sites
beenburned Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 fooloftheyear, The fact any WS could have a 7 year affair, is enough to make any BS go ballistic when they find out! No one has the right to waste 7 years of their spouses life with this huge lie! I really don't care what WS's reasons were! This is the type of affair more likely to cause violence, due to the extreme nature/length of all the lies and betrayals. If I personally were this wife, I would hire a shark lawyer and take him to the cleaners for pure revenge! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Yes but would you really want to make mortgage payments for years and years if you weren't sure at the end if you would end up owning the house or the bank would just keep it? The mortgage is cheaper than the rent elsewhere would be, so as it goes, I'm still better off! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 (edited) fooloftheyear, The fact any WS could have a 7 year affair, is enough to make any BS go ballistic when they find out! No one has the right to waste 7 years of their spouses life with this huge lie! I really don't care what WS's reasons were! This is the type of affair more likely to cause violence, due to the extreme nature/length of all the lies and betrayals. If I personally were this wife, I would hire a shark lawyer and take him to the cleaners for pure revenge! Everything you say can be true, but were you in that household and witnessed what went on? Is it possible the BS knew what was going on the whole time, swept it under the rug, and hoped it would just "go away"? Nobody knows. You are making an assumption. I can also assume that the BS was a miserable person that made her H's life an absolute living hell and he wasted 20 years of HIS life trying to get her to come around. I wont make that assumption because what the hell do I know??... All I will say is that the affair is wrong. Everything else is just conjecture and assumption with no basis in facts. TFY Edited April 25, 2013 by thefooloftheyear 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Silly_Girl Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Yes but with rent you are under no illusion that at some point you will own the house. Ha! Nice one. But the thing is, most cases I see on here aren't offered guarantees either. With a house you'd have a legal contract and whatnot. That's what you do if you want recourse. And apparently, per this thread, that can work for some OW. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 I have to disagree about conjecture and assumptions assuming a poster has a posting history, their own words, their own posts do tell their story assuming the poster isn't a troll. Do their posts absolutely reflect everything that went on, every thought, no of course not, but there is a story there in their own words. And assuming what they post is actually true...You know what they say about the internet. Believe only a small fraction of what you read.... I hear you, though LG...Good point nonetheless. TFY Link to post Share on other sites
Act Two Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 when it comes to money/finances, I get that things may be tough if there is a divorce, but, especially if their are children involved, wouldn't it be worth it to maybe get by on less and have your kids with two parents who are happy and stable in their lives than to have more money but two parents who are really unhappy? Most of the research on effects of divorce on children right now says no. I do understand many of your points, however. I think infidelity is a terrible way to "solve" a problem, but parental happiness does not = happiness/stability for kids, at least according to what I've read (Wallerstein is a notable source). 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Most of the research on effects of divorce on children right now says no. I do understand many of your points, however. I think infidelity is a terrible way to "solve" a problem, but parental happiness does not = happiness/stability for kids, at least according to what I've read (Wallerstein is a notable source). Ill share this quick story.... I am currently in the process of D. Last evening I met stbxw at my daughters(10) baseball game. On the way home my little angel was sobbing, which she rarely does. She wouldnt say why initially...Then she opened up. The w was going to take her for ice cream after the game and decided not to because I was there and rather than asking me to go, which I would have, she told my kid that shed do it another time. She(daughter) was so upset that we couldnt get ice cream as a "family". It killed her..and it tore me up... I spent a total of two hours sleeping last night. The rest of the time was spent quietly reflecting and feeling absolutely miserable and sobbing a bit... So those of you in the "do whats best for yourselves" and "those that want to leave just leave" and "the kids will get over it and whats the big deal", etc.. Just think about it.... Sure, its not an ideal situation for my kid...But its her whole world and more important than anything in her life...snifff.... TFY Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Are you suggesting that the OW/OM actually knows what is going on in the marital home? That's a first. Don't think that's what she suggested at all. She never even mentioned anything about the marriage itself. She indicates clearly that there are things that even the original poster may not know in their own story. Hope that clears up your misunderstanding. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Praying4Peace Posted April 25, 2013 Share Posted April 25, 2013 Ill share this quick story.... I am currently in the process of D. Last evening I met stbxw at my daughters(10) baseball game. On the way home my little angel was sobbing, which she rarely does. She wouldnt say why initially...Then she opened up. The w was going to take her for ice cream after the game and decided not to because I was there and rather than asking me to go, which I would have, she told my kid that shed do it another time. She(daughter) was so upset that we couldnt get ice cream as a "family". It killed her..and it tore me up... I spent a total of two hours sleeping last night. The rest of the time was spent quietly reflecting and feeling absolutely miserable and sobbing a bit... So those of you in the "do whats best for yourselves" and "those that want to leave just leave" and "the kids will get over it and whats the big deal", etc.. Just think about it.... Sure, its not an ideal situation for my kid...But its her whole world and more important than anything in her life...snifff.... TFY TFY- Maybe you can email your W and let her know in the future if this happens you wouldve gone out with them for ice cream? I realize it might be too awkward for you to do that at this point but you CAN later on. I went to a function for one of my kids and H was there too and we even sat together. My son saw that both parents were there because they had one common goal, if nothing else- love for HIM. He will understand as he gets older that even though our common interest is HIM, we don't have enough common interests to stay married. He kind of knows that after hearing a year of really bad fighting that couldn't be hidden. But to realize that even after ALL THAT we would still be in the same room for HIM- that's what a child needs. To feel loved by both parents. And kids are a little narcissistic by nature at a young age...they really just want to feel loved by their parents. Now, they ASSUME that both parents being together would be the surest way to ensure being taken care of but its your job and your W's job to show by actions that her needs will always be of importance to you. As I told my eldest child- we are divorcing each other...not YOU. We are still completely in your life. You will get all the benefits without the damage of hearing us be dysfunctional. And from what I've experienced so far we are both such better parents bc its not all about us and our toxic, dead, infidelity ridden marriage. We were so self centered fighting in our room where we thought the kids couldn't hear. Or being civil but cold to each other. Kids are like little plants- bury them in a toxic waste dump and it doesn't matter how much light or water you give them the soil is toxic. Please don't lose sleep anymore over this. Your D isn't even final yet. You ALL will be fine. When you and your W are in a happier place that happiness will be contagious to her. She might dream of having it all- you two together and happy but that's not possible. If anything let her have that dream and never settle for less in any relationship in the future. I'd rather my kids see me in no relationship rather than a bad one. I hope you're doing better. D's are killer. I promise you, you'll be so much better just give it a while. I was a mess (my D is not yet final) but I wake up with a goal in mind everyday and that's to be a great mom to my kids. It's not their fault we are getting a D and I don't want them to pay for it by watching me cry and wither away. If I was going to do that I'd have just stayed married. ps- I didn't get to this realization overnight. I probably slept only 2 hours a night for the past 3 months...worrying. P4P 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Aurora1 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 In an adult world, the children wouldn't know that their father or mother was having an affair - why would anyone think that a child should be privy to the inner workings of their parent's relationship? They can't handle that information, nor should they have to. So, having an affair - that the children aren't privy to and aren't affected by - vs getting a divorce which of course is in the child's face and directly affects them - two completely different things. In the adult world people should own up to the people they wrong, which is the BS and the children. The children deserve to know the truth about who and what has destroyed their family. Never lie to children, lies will only hurt them more. They will think it was their fault. They can't handle not knowing the truth. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
NPP10 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Sorry I'm bumping a thread from a few days ago. Anyhow, amongst many remarks, my favorite was "She wouldn't be able to run the household by herself. I keep the structure together." Link to post Share on other sites
Goodbye Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Sorry I'm bumping a thread from a few days ago. Anyhow, amongst many remarks, my favorite was "She wouldn't be able to run the household by herself. I keep the structure together." Ex mm gave me something similar. About how his wife was easily overwhelmed by their one kid, etc...and that she'd give him too much junk food if he wasn't there all of the time. Link to post Share on other sites
NPP10 Posted May 6, 2013 Share Posted May 6, 2013 Ex mm gave me something similar. About how his wife was easily overwhelmed by their one kid, etc...and that she'd give him too much junk food if he wasn't there all of the time. Mine is on the kind of on spectrum. Wife works FT; he works PT and is a SAHD. Wife doesn't know how to handle kids when she's by herself. A screaming kid for a hour drives her up a wall. Link to post Share on other sites
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