Reasons why they can't leave

[MissBee]

I still say stay for whatever reason floats your boat, but be honest with your spouse about what your intentions are for the remainder of the marriage.

 

I agree with this as well and have given the example of an aunt of mine as well as a friend, who couldn't leave their relationships right away for practical reasons i.e. not being able to afford moving out alone...but while they stayed, it was only temporary and their SOs knew exactly what the deal was. Neither pretended they were in a monogamous relationship. From that point, they were roommates, until they could change the circumstance.

 

In fact, this is not "staying in the relationship". This is staying at the house and being roommates, but there is no longer an emotional relationship and BOTH people know this. Not where the MP says they are roommates and no longer have an emotional relationship, but the spouse has no clue about this.

 

If you choose to stay, I'm interested in how you can make your stay productive versus counterproductive. And on the OW side, so long as you know the deal, then it's up to you to accept it or not. But the acting like a MM's hands are tied and so on and so forth is pretty lame. They're not. They choose what they choose, for whatever reason, and if it's staying, you need to accept they stay because they see it more beneficial than leaving and as the MP staying, don't bother to complain about this that and the third. If you're staying, don't whine about it.

[AnotherRound]

I agree with this as well and have given the example of an aunt of mine as well as a friend, who couldn't leave their relationships right away for practical reasons i.e. not being able to afford moving out alone...but while they stayed, it was only temporary and their SOs knew exactly what the deal was. Neither pretended they were in a monogamous relationship. From that point, they were roommates, until they could change the circumstance.

 

In fact, this is not "staying in the relationship". This is staying at the house and being roommates, but there is no longer an emotional relationship and BOTH people know this. Not where the MP says they are roommates and no longer have an emotional relationship, but the spouse has no clue about this.

 

If you choose to stay, I'm interested in how you can make your stay productive versus counterproductive. And on the OW side, so long as you know the deal, then it's up to you to accept it or not. But the acting like a MM's hands are tied and so on and so forth is pretty lame. They're not. They choose what they choose, for whatever reason, and if it's staying, you need to accept they stay because they see it more beneficial than leaving and as the MP staying, don't bother to complain about this that and the third. If you're staying, don't whine about it.

 

I agree with everything you said here aside from the "if you stay, don't whine about it". We humans often find ourselves surrounded by things outside of our control - so we choose one thing or the other. Doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it. I'm not into whining - but if I'm unhappy, I am into expressing it! I can complain about something that is negatively affecting my life if it is out of my control and I can't change it - the unfairness of it, etc. Sometimes, that is the natural process towards choosing something differently - as we process it out loud by talking about it, complaining about it, approaching it from all sides.

 

Neither exMM or his now exW were "happy" about staying - they were simply doing what they thought was the best for their children at the time. They BOTH complained about their marriage to others - bc they truly felt that as long as the children were in the home that they had no other viable choice - not a good choice anyways. Eventually, this led them both to see how unhappy they truly were, to re-evaluate where they were and where they wanted to be, and made them both pay more attention to the effects on their children. They then both realized that they weren't doing anyone any favors by staying for the reasons that they were - and they divorced.

 

Sometimes "whining" is just processing - and many times, the more we think about how unhappy we are, the more motivated we become to really pay attention to what IS in our control and make something happen.

[Act Two]

 

Sometimes "whining" is just processing - and many times, the more we think about how unhappy we are, the more motivated we become to really pay attention to what IS in our control and make something happen.

 

^^ This.

 

And sometimes it is not 100% clear that you should leave or not. Not all marriages are obviously bad enough to get out (like he is beating you silly). The title of the book Too Bad to Stay Too Good to Leave probably rings true for many people, (did I get that backwards?), although I agree that it can't go on indefinitely. Of course, too, the affair masks the problem and obfuscates the decision many times.

[MissBee]

I agree with everything you said here aside from the "if you stay, don't whine about it". We humans often find ourselves surrounded by things outside of our control - so we choose one thing or the other. Doesn't mean that we have to be happy about it. I'm not into whining - but if I'm unhappy, I am into expressing it! I can complain about something that is negatively affecting my life if it is out of my control and I can't change it - the unfairness of it, etc. Sometimes, that is the natural process towards choosing something differently - as we process it out loud by talking about it, complaining about it, approaching it from all sides.

 

Neither exMM or his now exW were "happy" about staying - they were simply doing what they thought was the best for their children at the time. They BOTH complained about their marriage to others - bc they truly felt that as long as the children were in the home that they had no other viable choice - not a good choice anyways. Eventually, this led them both to see how unhappy they truly were, to re-evaluate where they were and where they wanted to be, and made them both pay more attention to the effects on their children. They then both realized that they weren't doing anyone any favors by staying for the reasons that they were - and they divorced.

 

Sometimes "whining" is just processing - and many times, the more we think about how unhappy we are, the more motivated we become to really pay attention to what IS in our control and make something happen.

 

If I'm gonna be in an affair with someone I cannot tolerate them not leaving and also whining about their spouse on top of it. That is too much for my patience threshold personally. I would already be compromising by being in this less than optimal situation, so to add whining about it...I can't deal.

 

In my A, never a whine or complaint was voiced about his relationship. He of course complained about other annoyances in his life, like we all do, which I didn't mind but I would have found it very tacky and just inconsiderate for him to be complaining about his relationship. I would just grow extremely annoyed with it and just blurt out: "IF YOU HATE IT SO MUCH....LEAVE!"

 

 

But I was never a "happy OW", in terms of happy because I accepted the A and its limitations and bizarre constrains. The A was never a situation I found I could sustain long-term, so because of this disposition, I would have been particularly annoyed by his choice to stay and then his audacity to complain to me in light of it. I think if you accept he is never leaving and are happy to have him anyway then it may be easier to take his whining about the life he chose as simply par for the course and you being supportive, as you would with any other complaint. For me, I could never really do that and I know it's because of my inherent resistance to an A as a longterm, healthy solution.

[Athens]

Here is how I see it from my POV...people that are truly miserable in their marriage or truly love their AP leave...those that aren't, don't...when the rubber hits the road many marriages fail after an affair is discovered. The ones that survive are because both want it to. Rebuilding after an affair is hard work, for both parties. If your AP is still with their partner, it's because they want to be. If they were unhappy before DDay, there is no way surviving reconciliation would be any easier. The ones that stay together are the ones that love each other enough to stick it out. If your AP is feeding you a line about having to stay in a miserable marriage, then you are fooling yourself into believing it. It should be no surprise since affairs are a very toxic form of relationship. Lies and betrayal are part and parcel for all involved.

[Furious]

^^ This.

 

And sometimes it is not 100% clear that you should leave or not. Not all marriages are obviously bad enough to get out (like he is beating you silly). The title of the book Too Bad to Stay Too Good to Leave probably rings true for many people, (did I get that backwards?), although I agree that it can't go on indefinitely. Of course, too, the affair masks the problem and obfuscates the decision many times.

 

Act Two

 

I understand your point that divorce is a difficult decision and not something as easy as snapping your fingers.

 

As a betrayed spouse the idea of being deceived and not being given my reality or the option to divorce a cheating husband was denied me.

 

It seems as though the WS feels entitled to keep their spouse in the dark and deny them the right to end their marriage if cheating is a deal breaker all because the WS considers divorce to be too difficult a decision.

 

Seems so controlling and very unfair.

[Act Two]

Act Two

 

I understand your point that divorce is a difficult decision and not something as easy as snapping your fingers.

 

As a betrayed spouse the idea of being deceived and not being given my reality or the option to divorce a cheating husband was denied me.

 

It seems as though the WS feels entitled to keep their spouse in the dark and deny them the right to end their marriage if cheating is a deal breaker all because the WS considers divorce to be too difficult a decision.

 

Seems so controlling and very unfair.

 

True, I agree with you. And in many ways I was punishing my husband for his treatment of me with my infidelity. I'm not proud of that.

 

Divorce was also a difficult decision for him as it is for many BS.

[SidLyon]

Sid Lyon, you asked some about the reasons, some are very private, a couple could be identifying if anyone knows he or I or her so I'll leave those out.

 

Some reasons are:

He does love her, he's never stopped. No matter how hard it is to live with her, he loves her.

He loves his family being in one place, in one home, he likes being there to spend time with the kids, they do a LOT together, and he likes them having access to his mom.

Extended family expectations.

She has issues. Her family hasn't been the kindest to her in her life and their "plan" for her care if she falls apart is pretty awful and something he DID promise her a long time ago that he would never let happen. That means something to him, and because of that, it means something to me.

He doesn't want to divide the kids from their mom, even if it's not the most ideal situation. The children they had together are old enough to understand a lot of their mom's situation.

I haven't asked him to leave, there's no motivation to do so, and in fact, at one time told him that if he left her for me, that we couldn't be together anymore.

Guilt, not because of me but because of other things that are important to him.

It's important to him that he provides for her. His kids too of course, but taking care of her is a priority to him.

 

Those are some of the generalized reasons.

I think its' really important to make a note of the fact that as I've said over and over, the reasons he stays really come down to, I don't need him to leave. He's never promised me he would, and I've never asked. We spoke of it at one point but there are other factors in my life that made us decide that it wasn't the best scenario at that time. Whether that would change, I have no idea, but I have no expectation that it will. When I say I'm not looking for him to leave, I MEAN that, so if he can stay for the reasons that are important to him without me saying that's a dealbreaker, and still have everything he has with me, why would he leave?

 

Thank you fort answering LFH. I won't provide a critique of these reasons because I said I wouldn't.

 

Suffice to say it is not altogether different to my own situation a few years ago (as a BW) and my fWH's (as a MM having an A). I don't have any mental health issues, so there's no terrible "plan" for me should I fall apart. However I am not always easy to live with.

 

My fWH certainly felt obligations to me because of his marital promises, but not enough I might add to actually not have an A. He also claims to have always loved me and never stopped. I suppose this is the part I have difficulty with, but somehow the OW much like yourself, was willing to accept this.

 

On d-day he was obliged to choose, mainly because I wasn't willing to share. He said he chose me, but that didn't stop him continuing to contact her after d-day, to "let her down lightly" - his words not mine.

 

I realise he felt absolutely awful about what he'd done to 2 women that he claimed to love. I imagine it would be like being forced to choose between 2 much loved children.

 

In the end I reiterated that I wasn't willing to share, so he could leave if he couldn't give me exclusivity. She presumably was willing to continue to share (by then she was single as her own H had just died), but I most certainly wasn't. She never asked or hinted that he should leave. In some ways I had no idea which he would choose. He tried to get me to agree that if he ended it for good with her, then I wouldn't later leave, but realistically I couldn't give him that assurance.

 

While no 2 cases are exactly the same in the details, I believe his behaviour was somewhat typical of MM who had a d-day. So it's at least possible, that were you to experience a d-day, that it might go similarly.

 

To me the worst possibility is that the A goes underground. As a BW it was always in the back of my mind. I guess to some extend it would depend on the OW's willingness, as I imagine an A gone underground after a d-day is much, much harder to maintain.

[jlola]

I agree with this very much. I can only speak from my experience, which is that I was contemplating the idea of divorce after a pretty tough marriage about 6 years ago. Then I had an affair which was a very destructive decision (and didn't solve anything for anyone), but even as there were many times I wanted out, I was paralyzed by fear. I still am to some degree even though we are separated.

 

It sounds good to say, well just get a divorce, but the decision to divorce is excruciating, especially with children involved. I always felt that unless my husband was cheating on me or hit me, then I didn't really have much of a reason to leave him or was justified, even while every fiber of my being felt disrespect and resentment towards him. It's not always clear cut to know when your marriage is over.

 

I still agonize over the kids not seeing their parents every day, and me not seeing my babies every day or their dad not seeing them. It is a roll of the dice though when you have an affair that the BS will divorce you anyway, and then you have the pain of infidelity added on top of that. I get that rationally, now. Then, I felt like I had needs met, and then was able to prolong the family to some degree even though I was trying to work up the courage to leave.

.

 

Hold up, let me see if I understand this. You think it's ok to divorce if your husband was cheating or hit you. But you can do it and you resent him, but you can stay married?????

 

Sounds familiar. I once heard a guy say his MOW was so in love with him, they were soulmates. But she cannot divorce because her Czech culture looks down on divorce. I asked him if they thought cheating was ok. Never could wrap my mind around the fact she could not divorce, but sure as hell let him come over to her house when her husband was at work, buy him a "wedding ring". Give him her parents phone number to call her while she was vacationing in the Czech. Because they were so in love. But divorce was a no-no. I guess disrespecting your spouse is ok as long as no one knows about it. eventually he realized she just liked living in a cushy house and did not want to give up what she had.

 

Can't leave for AP or crappy marriage where you do not love him. But if your spouse is the cheater, well now you can leave. makes perfect sense!

[waterwoman]

Why do they need an excuse? They stay because it's what they want to do for a myriad of reasons.

[jlola]

Go back and reread the post you made from which I extracted that part. The point you are trying to make is that people(in YOUR situation) left the marriage without fanfare. So then, it stands to reason that everyone else should just behave in the same manner. Who is to say that others would or wouldnt do if put in the same circumstances?

 

Get it?

 

Look, if you were lied to and led on, I understand your frustration. I've made the point before clearly. I sympathize profusely. But what you are doing is transposing that situation to yours (or any)marriage. Sorry, but that just doesnt fly.

 

 

TFOY

 

What she is saying is people can leave their situation/marriage if they really want to. People do it everyday.

 

But people in affairs who are supposedly so "in love" they cannot end the affair still stick around for reasons that really are not legit.

 

Love your children! well, don't have an affair because if they ever find out, that legacy will stay with them for the rest of their lives and they will have trouble finding safety in a relationship. If mom or dad can be a cheater a liar and have secret sexual relationship,anyone can.

 

If you want to be a martyr and stay in a marriage for the sake of the kids. then so be it. Do not ruin their lives by showing them such ugliness.

 

I referred to Tiger Woods earlier. He would cry about his father cheating on his mother. But he grew up to be just like him. My sister and half sister are cheaters like my father. Half sister was born from an affair with a married woman. So she learned from both parents.

 

You can stay in a bad marriage if you like. But set a good example for the children by having integrity and respect. If anyone ever found if you have an affair out, can you imagine the shame those kids will live with?

 

It is better to leave the marriage and show the children self respect,than stay and say it is because of them while you conduct an affair. It is not about the kids. It's about you! It's about you wanting to look good for your community,wanting to look like a perfect parent,family,wanting to stay in a nice home,wanting financial security.

 

If it was about the kids you wouldn't bring this ugliness into their lives.

 

And again I have lived very close to this with father and family members. So I KNOW first hand nothing good comes from cheating.

 

And in my culture that used to look down on divorce, now many of the younger generation are getting divorced and the older generation has accepted it. The cheating though still is what seems to bring on the most pain for kids.

[AnotherRound]

And really, to be clear. We're never going to agree. Your experience is yours, mine is mine. Discarding what I say, or what you say, as less than, is pointless. I don't live in a small town, I didn't have permission from the BS to f her husband, I don't live in a world where f'ing another woman's husband is accepted or common place. So... Your affairy story is not the norm, is most likely, the most bizarre. And, good on you. If it makes you happy, no one gets hurt, go the f forward and prosper. Just don't ignore the fact that you, are the anomaly, not the rule. Own it.

 

Wow... ? You're right - bc our situations are so different, neither of us has anything to learn from the other. ???? Okay... I have never ignored the fact that my situation was different - but that really had nothing to do with this thread. The topic was why people don't leave - I provided examples of my own marriage and my exMMs reasons - I wasn't trying to tell you your reality.

 

And just as an fyi - if I didn't learn something from what you say - I wouldn't participate in discourse with you. Maybe you've had a bad day, I dunno - but if you think that there is no value in talking to people who haven't had the exact same experiences as you - well then - okay.

 

I'm sorry I triggered you with sharing my experiences or providing my views on things... again, wow.

[thefooloftheyear]

What she is saying is people can leave their situation/marriage if they really want to. People do it everyday.

 

And many people DONT do it every day.

 

But people in affairs who are supposedly so "in love" they cannot end the affair still stick around for reasons that really are not legit.

 

Who is anyone to judge what is "legit"?..What is legit for one is ridiculous for another.

 

Love your children! well, don't have an affair because if they ever find out, that legacy will stay with them for the rest of their lives and they will have trouble finding safety in a relationship. If mom or dad can be a cheater a liar and have secret sexual relationship,anyone can.

 

If you want to be a martyr and stay in a marriage for the sake of the kids. then so be it. Do not ruin their lives by showing them such ugliness.

 

I referred to Tiger Woods earlier. He would cry about his father cheating on his mother. But he grew up to be just like him. My sister and half sister are cheaters like my father. Half sister was born from an affair with a married woman. So she learned from both parents.

 

You can stay in a bad marriage if you like. But set a good example for the children by having integrity and respect. If anyone ever found if you have an affair out, can you imagine the shame those kids will live with?

 

It is better to leave the marriage and show the children self respect,than stay and say it is because of them while you conduct an affair. It is not about the kids. It's about you! It's about you wanting to look good for your community,wanting to look like a perfect parent,family,wanting to stay in a nice home,wanting financial security.

 

I suppose thats one persons viewpoint. Someone else might view it as making a very bad situation a whole lot worse.

 

If it was about the kids you wouldn't bring this ugliness into their lives.

 

And again I have lived very close to this with father and family members. So I KNOW first hand nothing good comes from cheating.

 

And in my culture that used to look down on divorce, now many of the younger generation are getting divorced and the older generation has accepted it. The cheating though still is what seems to bring on the most pain for kids.

 

Point is, everyone has a different way of looking at a situation.

 

The only "truths" here are EMA's are a bad idea. How one handles and processes it depends on the individual. To make such blanket statements just doesn't take into account the human condition..

 

TFOY

[jlola]

OMG I love that,

 

 

Love it too! The truth is hat many people do not like to hear!

[jlola]

Point is, everyone has a different way of looking at a situation.

 

The only "truths" here are EMA's are a bad idea. How one handles and processes it depends on the individual. To make such blanket statements just doesn't take into account the human condition..

 

TFOY

 

So showing your kids integrity,self respect,honesty and loyalty has an equal effect as showing them deception,lying,gaslighting,cheating,sexual infidelity. The only difference is how one handles the processes the situation?

 

I would think everyone processes integrity and deception in the same way. Especially children.

 

I can think of no child who would not be completely destroyed hearing rumors or gossip about how their parent(especially mother) is having sex with somebody who is not their spouse.

 

Have you read therapist talk about how infidelity at times effects children even worse than the spouse who was cheated on. Children feel betrayal at a deep level. But some people want to deny that reality because it suits them.

[jlola]

Let me make this clear AR, I'm not you patient, so don't analyze me or assume you (trigger) me. Remember, you are not a professional here, you are just a poster as the rest of us are. I certainly don't have at you to feel better, I simply disagree with almost everything you say and in your delivery to MANY posters there are always little barbs buried within in a misguided attempt to belittle posters or an attempt to make yourself seem superior to others.

 

You know LG, There are a few posters here I would love to know in real life. You are one of them. An absolutely wonderful person with heart and integrity who pulls no punches. Someone I could trust to be my friend.(())

[jlola]

(((((jlola)))))), that was so sweet! I'm really touched. Thank you so much for the kind words.

 

I'd be honored to meet you to, I really would.

 

There are so many women here who inspire, motivate me and have been so kind to me, I'm honored to call some of them my friends.

 

Awwwww

 

Found this article. Iknow you will get it.

 

The Impact of Adult Infidelity on Children

 

“She’s too young to know what’s going on,” or “Kids are resilient.” Do either of these statements sound familiar? Regardless of age, children know when something is not right in the family; infidelity is no different. Unfortunately, even if parents try to keep the truth from the kids, the children often manifest behaviors that reveal they knew what was going on all the time.

 

 

According to Dr. Ana Nogales, author of the research study and book “Parents Who Cheat: How children and adults are affected when their parents are unfaithful,” a number of feelings and behaviors are exhibited by children whose parents cheat. “Whatever their age, children whose parents have been unfaithful often react with intense feelings of anger, anxiety, guilt, shame, sadness and confusion. They might act out, regress or withdraw…they may feel pressured to win back the love of the cheating parent or to become the caretaker of the betrayed parent.

 

The bottom line is that when parents are role models of infidelity, their children can’t help but react.”

Nogales bases her findings on the more than 800 respondents to the Parents Who Cheat Survey conducted in 2009 as well as interactions with her own clients. The survey shows several core responses experienced by sons and daughters of every age once they discover one or both of their parents has been unfaithful. Nogales identifies these specific emotional consequences:

Loss of trust – When children (of any age) learn of a parent’s infidelity, they usually find it extremely difficult if not impossible to trust that someone they love will not lie to them, reject, or abandon them.

 

They very often learn not to put their faith in love; they may also feel that they are not worthy of receiving monogamous love.

 

Shame – A child may feel as if the betraying parent’s sexual transgression is a black mark against him and the rest of the immediate family. If the child has been pressured by the cheating parent to “keep the secret” of their infidelity, the child is left with an added and unwarranted burden of guilt.

 

Confusion – Children often draw the conclusion that marriage is a sham and love is an illusion. When parents stay married even though one or both parent(s) continues having affairs, the effect on children is profound confusion about the meaning of both love and marriage.

Anger and ambivalence toward the betraying parent – When infidelity partially defines a parent’s character, a son or daughter often feels torn between feelings of anger and yearning. Some even express this emotional conflict in terms of there being two mothers or two fathers – the one who used to be their parent before the affair came to light (who was deserving of their love) and the one revealed to them when the infidelity was revealed (whom they now “hate”).

 

Resentment toward the betrayed parent – Some children resent the betrayed parent for requiring them to be their emotional caretaker, for under-parenting due to preoccupation with the infidelity drama, or for having been unable to prevent the infidelity in the first place.

 

Acting out – Rather than confronting sad, angry, or confusing feelings directly, children may exhibit behavioral problems during childhood, sexual acting out during adolescence, and intimacy avoidance or sexual addiction during adult years. Issues of promiscuity may arise in an attempt to play out what a child perceived from his parents about the casualness of sex and the impermanence of love.

 

Relationship expert and author of “Surviving an Affair” Jennifer Harley Chalmer, Ph.D. writes, “Problems in a marriage are hard on children. They undermine the basic security needed for them to learn and grow. But to add infidelity to the mix turns a problem into a disaster. Parents who have an affair are teaching their children very important rules that are likely to be followed for the rest of their lives. It ultimately not only undermines their marital relationships but it also seriously hurts their own chances for success in most other areas of life.”

 

The good news? Even after the mistake of an affair, it is possible to make a conscious choice to change the consequences. With the help of marriage and relationship education (for the parents) or counseling (both for the parents and the children), couples can begin to repair their relationship and model healthy relationship skills for their children. “It’s extremely difficult and very humbling,” says Dr. Chalmer, “but (in my experience) couples who are motivated to save their marriage have also been able to correct the lessons they have taught their children.”

[AnotherRound]

Let me make this clear AR, I'm not you patient, so don't analyze me or assume you (trigger) me. Remember, you are not a professional here, you are just a poster as the rest of us are. I certainly don't have at you to feel better, I simply disagree with almost everything you say and in your delivery to MANY posters there are always little barbs buried within in a misguided attempt to belittle posters or an attempt to make yourself seem superior to others.

 

Let me make THIS clear - you are posting on a public forum on the internet - what is done with your words (analyzing or whatever) is not up to you once you hit "submit" - but up to those who read them. You no longer own them - sorry. I never said I was anything but a poster here in this thread - nor have I implied it. I will, however, retain my right to have thoughts about what type of person you are from your posts (analyzing you?) just as you do me from mine.

 

As for disagreeing - there are other posters who disagree with me that don't come off sounding triggered. It's not disagreement that triggers me to believe that you are triggering - it's the fact that you sound, well, triggered. You seem to often feel the need to tell me that I am not "superior" when I have no beliefs that I am - unwarranted. So, I surmise, again, that has MUCH more to do with you and what you believe that you lack than with what I say or share (and there isn't a thing you can do about my thoughts on that - even by trying to tell me what I'm allowed to do with your posts or not).

 

So - with all of that being said - if you aren't being triggered, then so be it. BUT, you sound as if you are. If that is not the impression that you want others to have of you, maybe it's something to think about (or not, whatever). But no reason to get ruffled when you're called on something - especially since you seem to consider yourself the queen of calling others out (ironic that, isn't it?). And as you have seen, I am not the only poster who sees this triggering with you happening - again, something to think about maybe - or not, I don't really care, it's not my issue at all (although I do feel badly for you at times bc you do seem awfully sensitive to certain things on here).

[cocorico]

If the marriage is so bad,why stay? So many excuses on this board it is ridiculous. 50% of people divorce . Out of those 50% taking out the ones who stay for religious purposes and culture more would divorce.

 

So why are you still the OW if you two are so in love. I am so sick of hearing it is because o the children. If you loved the kids so much, you would not be having an affair. But taking your time to stratigically leave the "bad relationship". Noone is doing a child a favor with parents who seem to resent each other or parents who stay with alcoholics,mentally unstable people who will not take their meds,or whatever the darn excuse.

 

I wish my parents had divorced instead of using us as an excuse. Truth be told, my mother stayed because she loved my father and thought he would revert to the charming man she met ....if she was perfect,stayed beautiful,cooked,cleaned. But nothing worked( even though he was good looking, he married way out of his league in looks). He was wired wrong from the start. She just cannot see that. But OW most likely think it was her who MUST have been doing something wrong to make him cheat.

 

My father stayed because he wanted to have the image of "family man' and also because he greedily did not want to split money,property. People stay for selfish reasons. But try to justify. OM/OW repeat these reasons like they make sense. From a child raised in this madness it makes no sense but to the selfish people who want to seems like martyrs. If you really cared about your children, the affair would not be going on.

 

I find it hard to believe a good parent does not have enough on their plate with children, marriage, work(or SAHM) to keep busy. I mean I am single,no kids and I still find it difficult to make time to see someone a few times a week. The affair is taking away from something. Probably quality time with your kids!

 

I was also the child of parents who stayed together "for the kids" and I remember as a preschooler begging my father to D my mother, and getting punished for suggesting such a thing. And, once the kids had left, he did D my mother and has been happily remarried ever since, so it was very clearly a case of "staying together for the kids".

 

I disagree that "if he really cared for the kids, the A would not have been going on". Te A was not the source of marital discord. The A was the symptom of it, and the way he used to cope with it. And because it made him less stressed, less withdrawn, brimming with less anger, it made our home environment better too. We at least had one parent who became human for that time, who could smile, even laugh on occasion, whose emotional repertoire encompassed more than hostility and aggression, who noticed us kids, who didn't resent us and blame us for their life being terrible, who could see beauty in the world and who had time for us. Without the A, there is a pretty good chance that there would have been a suicide or a murder - I can recognise that now.

 

My H left, I am no longer the OW, but he only left when he recognised that it was safe to do so. Until that point he did feel trapped - and one can argue how realistic that was, which is irrelevant. Point was, to him it was real. It was not simply convenience that kept him there. It was real aching concern for his kids.

 

Just a few years previously (before his A) his BW had stormed out dramatically after attacking him physically in front of the kids, and moved into a place on her own. The kids were pre-teens, were deeply traumatised, and watched in horror as their mother fell apart dramatically. Their schoolwork suffered, their social lives tanked, they developed all kinds of behavioural problems and emotional problems and really struggled with the insecurity. (He, OTOH, became his old self again - happy, hopeful, alive.) When she heard he was dating (nothing serious, but he did not hide it from the kids) she felt threatened and begged him to take her back. Although it was not remotely in his own best interest to do so, he agreed because the kids were begging him to take her back, because he saw that it would be in their best interest to take her back. He did make her promise to go to MC to address the dysfunction, etc but of course she bailed on that and of course he did not feel he could simply kick her out again and risk traumatising the kids once more.

 

So that memory of the kids' trauma was very fresh, and very real to him. He had lived through his own parents' very traumatic D as a kid, and knew how hard it was for the kids. It was not something he was willing to inflict on them having seen the damage she had caused by doing that. So he stayed. And she got worse, and he felt trapped. He was giving and giving and giving and eventually needed some love himself, and became vulnerable to an A. Which helped him survive, helped him refuel to be able to give more to the kids, helped him to keep it all together while helping to get the kids back on track enough, to get them strong enough, to be able to consider another split. Only this time he organised it, and he did it properly, speaking to the kids, keeping them in the loop, taking them to family counselling to prepare for it, and providing them with a stable home after the split.

 

But until that point, leaving was not possible for him. It was not an excuse. It was real. Anyone who has been a parent recognises that there are times when your own happiness has to take a backseat to the best interests of your kids. This was such a time. Claims to the contrary are simply ignorant.

[jlola]

 

 

Anyone who has been a parent recognises that there are times when your own happiness has to take a backseat to the best interests of your kids. This was such a time. Claims to the contrary are simply ignorant.

I agree. But that same parent cannot then twist it around and have the children's mental and emotional health take a backseat to their happiness. To even out the original sacrifice. Your situation sounds very rare. Glad his kids are emotionally healthy and happy now after all the chaos BOTH parents put them through.

 

How Infidelity Affects the Children in a Marriage

 

Infidelity Affects Children’s View of Their Parents

Numerous research papers, articles, and books have been written on the effects of infidelity on the children of the marriage. A parent’s infidelity in marriage affects the children’s view of their individual parents, as well as the institution of marriage. The effects can be long-lasting, as surveys of adult children of cheaters demonstrate. Even decades after the infidelity itself, these children of cheaters report the feelings of resentment, shame, and confusion that resulted from a parent’s infidelity.

For many children, a parent’s cheating feels as though it was an infidelity against the whole family, not just the other parent. They may feel rejected, unloved, or abandoned when they realize that mom or dad was turning to someone outside the family for love. (These feelings are exacerbated in cases where the affair results in half-siblings.) Many kids blame themselves to some extent, thinking that if they had been “better behaved,” mom or dad wouldn’t have had to seek family-type relationships outside the family.

Infidelity Affects Children’s View of Marriage

Studies confirm that children of cheaters view the institution of marriage with significantly greater hesitation and doubt. They have more difficulty trusting, and (ironic as it might seem) are statistically more likely to cheat in their own relationships later in life. Whether or not it results in divorce, infidelity by a parent can have far-reaching negative consequences with regard to the children’s emotional well-being.

[thefooloftheyear]

So showing your kids integrity,self respect,honesty and loyalty has an equal effect as showing them deception,lying,gaslighting,cheating,sexual infidelity. The only difference is how one handles the processes the situation?

 

I would think everyone processes integrity and deception in the same way. Especially children.

 

.

 

Of course it doesnt..Look, I really do not know why you are having such an issue with this. I AGREE with you. No one in their right mind would defend the point. EMA's are bad. Infidelity is bad. But through it there are people who leave the M and D and there are others that stay and try to reconcile. Which is right or wrong in this case no one can say. I can rehash it, but cocorico's last post really illustrates my point, but you have been poking holes in it for no reason, frankly.

 

AS for kids. of course they wont like it. Its up to the parents to decide how best to deal with it. There is no boilerplate answer or truism here.

 

My own father was a decent guy and never had an EMA to my knowledge, But at the same time he was a lousy father who didnt want the responsibility of kids and left us emotioanally detached and struggle with barely anything. Quite frankly if he was a good provider and took care of us the way a father should but had an EMA it would have been FAR less traumatising...Im not saying this to justify infidelity, but thats reality...

 

Im sure you will extrapolate some obtuse way of putting a negative spin on this, so have at it. Im done..

 

TFOY

Edited April 17, 2013 by thefooloftheyear

[Silly_Girl]

I've been on the inside. I have lived with the parent who played martyr and 'stayed" for the kids. I know how toxic this is when it comes to the home. You can try to hide it from the kids. But kids know something is off. Body language says alot and kids are very nosy.They may not know exactly what is going on at the moment. But one day they ill figure it out.

 

Even Tiger Woods was upset and humiliated when his father would cheat on his mother. Look how that turned out. Sure "don't want to mess up the kids".

 

Tiger Woods discovered his father, Earl, cheated on his mother, golfer's high school sweetheart says - NY Daily News

 

I understand that. I was in a difficult position. My son would benefit from me leaving (if he'd let me, he said he'd rather kill me) but my 2 step-kids would suffer greatly, which is what happened

[Act Two]

Hold up, let me see if I understand this. You think it's ok to divorce if your husband was cheating or hit you. But you can do it and you resent him, but you can stay married?????

 

Sounds familiar. I once heard a guy say his MOW was so in love with him, they were soulmates. But she cannot divorce because her Czech culture looks down on divorce. I asked him if they thought cheating was ok. Never could wrap my mind around the fact she could not divorce, but sure as hell let him come over to her house when her husband was at work, buy him a "wedding ring". Give him her parents phone number to call her while she was vacationing in the Czech. Because they were so in love. But divorce was a no-no. I guess disrespecting your spouse is ok as long as no one knows about it. eventually he realized she just liked living in a cushy house and did not want to give up what she had.

 

Can't leave for AP or crappy marriage where you do not love him. But if your spouse is the cheater, well now you can leave. makes perfect sense!

 

 

Hey, you aren't going to catch me defending my actions as logical, wise, ethical, or moral. There was/is quite a bit of dissonance involved in affairs if it goes against your values and beliefs, as it does mine.

 

My culture/community says divorce is only ok with infidelity or abuse (physical), and anything else we will not support. Perhaps I forced his hand by becoming the cheater, I'm not sure. Either way, I don't agree with the position of the community OR my choice, so you don't need to convince me otherwise.

 

Having said that, many times there is speculation as to what the MW/MM thinks or feels.Frequently, assumptions are made because there really aren't many WS or fWS that post. I am sharing my story, not to defend affairs, but to perhaps offer a glimpse into what might go on in the head of someone from this side of the triangle.

[Silly_Girl]

Simply put: most people stay because they want to stay, regardless of if they are miserable or not, the benefits of staying outweigh the real or imagined risks entailed in the opposite i.e. leaving.

 

 

This is true. Oversimplified, but true.

 

I stayed because he told me he'd take me for every penny, he said he'd kill me than let me have a life without him. And so on.

 

Eventually my misery IN the R was worse than him doing his worst once I'd escaped.

 

So the choice might be obvious, but not easy.

[Got it]

If the marriage is so bad,why stay? So many excuses on this board it is ridiculous. 50% of people divorce . Out of those 50% taking out the ones who stay for religious purposes and culture more would divorce.

 

So why are you still the OW if you two are so in love. I am so sick of hearing it is because o the children. If you loved the kids so much, you would not be having an affair. But taking your time to stratigically leave the "bad relationship". Noone is doing a child a favor with parents who seem to resent each other or parents who stay with alcoholics,mentally unstable people who will not take their meds,or whatever the darn excuse.

 

I wish my parents had divorced instead of using us as an excuse. Truth be told, my mother stayed because she loved my father and thought he would revert to the charming man she met ....if she was perfect,stayed beautiful,cooked,cleaned. But nothing worked( even though he was good looking, he married way out of his league in looks). He was wired wrong from the start. She just cannot see that. But OW most likely think it was her who MUST have been doing something wrong to make him cheat.

 

My father stayed because he wanted to have the image of "family man' and also because he greedily did not want to split money,property. People stay for selfish reasons. But try to justify. OM/OW repeat these reasons like they make sense. From a child raised in this madness it makes no sense but to the selfish people who want to seems like martyrs. If you really cared about your children, the affair would not be going on.

 

I find it hard to believe a good parent does not have enough on their plate with children, marriage, work(or SAHM) to keep busy. I mean I am single,no kids and I still find it difficult to make time to see someone a few times a week. The affair is taking away from something. Probably quality time with your kids!

 

My parents stayed together as well for the kids. It has never been a decision that I understood or agreed with but I realized a long time ago we would need to agree to disagree. My parents stand by their own reasons on it, they do feel it was the best decision and regardless of how bad the marriage was felt that divorce would have been worse while we were minors.

 

I don't view my parents as selfish for their outlook on this. I don't agree with it and I have my own scars due to their very unhappy marriage but I can't say with certainty that the flipside would have been better as it wasn't taken. So while I believe it may have been I don't know for sure. And that is where the line stayed with my dad especially. He did not want his time cut short with us and did not make enough money to support two households (my mom was a SAHP).

 

I think having parents who are happy is key in whatever set up that might be. I have realized, though, that unfortunately many adults are just not happy in any situation. They are happy being unhappy.

 

So, I appreciate my parents' stance, I can't say they were wrong, but I know if I ever am in their shoes I will take a different road. But to each their own.