Reasons why they can't leave

[natty moppet]

when it comes right down to it, a person who doesn't end their marriage doesn't want to end it. Whatever it is that they could leave for isn't important enough to them to make them go. Nothing can chnage that fact...

 

I still don't get, and never will, how someone can say they can't leave their marriage because it will hurt their kids, them, their spouse whoever, but then they will turn around and do the one thing that has such a high potential to end their marriage that they are adamant that they can't leave, and they are willing to be dishonest, to hurt their spouse and children in a way that goes so much deeper than just a divorce because they aren't happy ever could...

 

why is it better to have an affair than to be honest? If a spouse is so much at the end of their rope that they are willing to cheat, why is it so hard to say " I'm not happy, you're not happy, but there is s much about the marriage that I value and I don't want a divorce...can we talk about finding a way to make it work...like maybe an open marriage?" ( of course, this is predicated in the idea that the couple really has tried everything they can to bring the "spark" back...) ...

 

If your spouse still says no, then I don't know what I'd say to that...

 

The thing is that most wayward spouses haven't done that- of course some have-...it's more the "garden variety" cheating, and they aren't "stuck"...stuck would imply they have tried everything and still nothing changes..."stuck' implies they have no other choice but to have an affair and not divorce , but the fact is they do, they just don't exercise them...

 

it's not "kinder' to cheat on your spouse than to tell them you aren't happy, try to make things better and if that doesn't work to ask for a divorce, there"s no "honor" in disrespecting your spouse every day by lying to them ( lies by omission are lies none the less), there's no honor in using someone else ( other man/woman) as a "crutch" to prop yourself up and lying or leading them on as well...

 

if your spouse is okay with your seeking something outside the marriage, that's an open marriage and using that as a data comparison point for other marriages is invalid...if this is your situation, and your other man/woman knows you aren't going to leave...again comparing that to an "ordinary" affair is comparing apples to oranges...they are not the same

 

since when is honesty a bad thing?

 

In my case, I have been brutally honest...I have asked my spouse to change, begged, threatened, spoke of open marriage, divorce, etc. It has gone on for several years now and yet there is no change. He doesn't want a divorce, and neither do I albeit for different reasons. Also, H wants to change, says he will try to change, but nothing ever happens.

 

Although I have not had a PA, I was thinking about it, and am currently trying to extricate myself from my EA--mainly because of who the OM is. I think most of us hope/believe that our A will not be discovered--as naive as that sounds. If your H and kids never find out(and there aren't any health implications), who is really being hurt? The WS, IMO. The WS is now the one who has sacrificed her integrity, emotional well-being and self respect.

 

The part you are missing, IMO, is that bleak feeling of sadness, knowing that this is the life and partner you have chosen and are stuck with(if divorce is not for you). Sometimes, the person you started out with is not the person you ended up with, and if D is not possible, that desperation may lead you down an alternate path.

[Act Two]

I don't think there is a dispute as to the fact that if a MW/MM isn't leaving, then there is a reason. Of course. What is under dispute as to whether the reasons are valid enough. In my opinion, unless someone has walked the path in the same shoes then it is hard to judge whether those reasons are valid for that WS.

 

I'll say 1000 times that an affair is no solution.

 

I will also say that sometimes people stay in marriages that feel hopeless and unfulfilling, and not for love because there may be one compelling reason or a compilation of reasons that to the WS outweigh the unhappiness in the marriage.

[MissBee]

This is true. Oversimplified, but true.

 

I stayed because he told me he'd take me for every penny, he said he'd kill me than let me have a life without him. And so on.

 

Eventually my misery IN the R was worse than him doing his worst once I'd escaped.

 

So the choice might be obvious, but not easy.

 

I wanted to break it down to the simplest of components, hence "simply put" lol. But of course, every person/situation will have layers of other stuff on top.

 

I read an article once about the ability to elevator pitch your problem...i.e. breaking it down to the bottom line, as usually people want to have some long, laborious story about it, when it can be summed up to a very basic issue that explains it all. It was a VERY useful exercise that I've tried to practice and which has helped me greatly. Sometimes, esp re: As and other questionable relationships, people spend too much time analyzing and adding "more details" so we "understand" and instead what it does is allows them to get lost in the mire instead of arriving at clarity.

 

I think leaving an abusive marriage where your life is being threatened is quite a different kettle of fish than leaving an unhappy marriage when you have an affair partner.

 

I don't espouse the idea that leaving a marriage is easy. In several of these kinds of threads I've always said it is by no means easy...but when has that stopped someone? Lots of things in life worth doing and having don't come easy, yet people who want to do them and have them, find ways to do so.

[Silly_Girl]

I think leaving an abusive marriage where your life is being threatened is quite a different kettle of fish than leaving an unhappy marriage when you have an affair partner.

 

It is not the same, but it can be similar.

[thefooloftheyear]

The days of Leave it to Beaver are long past. There are many instances where women are the primary earner now. There are even more - in fact I would hazard a very experienced guess as to most of the time - where both work.

 

True...Ive said it before..

 

However, none of the people in my circle fall into this category...And even though there have been great strides the men are still the heavies and I am sure the stats will prove me correct..

 

Dont get me wrong, while I am all man I wouldn't turn down a lady that can "carry the mail" so to speak..I can clean house as good or better than any woman but to be honest I can't cook worth a damn..

 

TFOY

[Got it]

The days of Leave it to Beaver are long past. There are many instances where women are the primary earner now. There are even more - in fact I would hazard a very experienced guess as to most of the time - where both work.

 

there is still a discrepancy in the earning incomes of households with women still making 60 cents to the dollar of a man. And, it may be regional, but there are many SAHM. Yes, are there some households where the woman earns more? Absolutely I am one of them but this is most definitely the minority still.

 

Both may work but most women are the ones with less hours, less pay, and lower positions because they continue to assume most of the household and childcare responsibilities.

[jlola]

My parents stayed together as well for the kids. It has never been a decision that I understood or agreed with but I realized a long time ago we would need to agree to disagree. My parents stand by their own reasons on it, they do feel it was the best decision and regardless of how bad the marriage was felt that divorce would have been worse while we were minors.

 

I don't view my parents as selfish for their outlook on this. I don't agree with it and I have my own scars due to their very unhappy marriage but I can't say with certainty that the flipside would have been better as it wasn't taken. So while I believe it may have been I don't know for sure. And that is where the line stayed with my dad especially. He did not want his time cut short with us and did not make enough money to support two households (my mom was a SAHP).

 

I think having parents who are happy is key in whatever set up that might be. I have realized, though, that unfortunately many adults are just not happy in any situation. They are happy being unhappy.

 

So, I appreciate my parents' stance, I can't say they were wrong, but I know if I ever am in their shoes I will take a different road. But to each their own.

 

This situation is a hole lot different than being in an affair,claiming to be in love with the affair partner,continuing the affair and then playing the martyr and saying I can't leave because it would hurt the kids.

 

This is what I have a huge issue with. The kids will be emotionally more hurt than you can imagine for life when this happens. But I think the selfishness makes them not want to see that point. So different than staying because you do not want the kids to come from a broken home, make sure you model safety. dignity and integrity. So they can grow up feeling secure.

[Praying4Peace]

This thread should be renamed "Reasons why they WON'T leave". If you want to do something, you can.

[jlola]

This is true. Oversimplified, but true.

 

I stayed because he told me he'd take me for every penny, he said he'd kill me than let me have a life without him. And so on.

 

Eventually my misery IN the R was worse than him doing his worst once I'd escaped.

 

So the choice might be obvious, but not easy.

This I cannot understand. My father would say the exact same thing t o my mother. It was scary. So in lieu of that, I know my mother had sense enough to know if she could not leave him without repercussion,she certainly could not be in an affair and expect him to behave any differently then he threatened once he found out.

 

In fact, I am confident in saying not only would my mother not be alive today, and perhaps none of us children also since we would have tried to stop it, if in a jealous rage he tried to kill her.

 

In leaving at least you can go to the police,find a shelter or hide out at friends's or relatives till you can get a restraining order. But having an affair could spell certain death with nowhere to go and extreme danger to you and the kids.

 

This type of man cannot tolerate rejection. Especially if it is an an affair.

[thefooloftheyear]

I earn more than my husband. Several women I know earn more than their H's. I also know a couple stay at home dads whose W's work. I know a man who D'd and DID get custody of his child - 15 years ago.

 

What do these guys do during the day? Watch The View, have the car serviced and get their hair done?

 

Only kidding...I dunno...I just could never see myself in that role, now if J. Lo wants to ring me up I suppos I can swallow my pride...

 

TFOY

[Silly_Girl]

This I cannot understand. My father would say the exact same thing t o my mother. It was scary. So in lieu of that, I know my mother had sense enough to know if she could not leave him without repercussion,she certainly could not be in an affair and expect him to behave any differently then he threatened once he found out.

 

In fact, I am confident in saying not only would my mother not be alive today, and perhaps none of us children also since we would have tried to stop it, if in a jealous rage he tried to kill her.

 

In leaving at least you can go to the police,find a shelter or hide out at friends's or relatives till you can get a restraining order. But having an affair could spell certain death with nowhere to go and extreme danger to you and the kids.

 

This type of man cannot tolerate rejection. Especially if it is an an affair.

 

I did not have an affair, although I sometimes wish I had. Instead I am referring to the scales off the misery in the R versus the misery caused by leaving.

 

You do make leaving appear very simple, I must say...

Edited April 17, 2013 by Silly_Girl

[Got it]

This situation is a hole lot different than being in an affair,claiming to be in love with the affair partner,continuing the affair and then playing the martyr and saying I can't leave because it would hurt the kids.

 

This is what I have a huge issue with. The kids will be emotionally more hurt than you can imagine for life when this happens. But I think the selfishness makes them not want to see that point. So different than staying because you do not want the kids to come from a broken home, make sure you model safety. dignity and integrity. So they can grow up feeling secure.

 

Well the post I was responding to did not stipulate that and did indicate why a parent would not leave or really why the should leave.

 

My mom did have an affair when I was very young, and while I am sure it played some factor their marriage was a mess on both sides outside of that.

 

The problem, even disregarding whether an affair happens, is your comment on what should be modeled. That, unfortunately, seems to be in the minority of households.

 

There was so security in our house. My father was (and is to a degree) a very angry man with a very short fuse. My parents were the perfect union of dysfunction of a KISA, a victim mentality, two martyrs and two low self esteem individuals with mother issues.

 

The plus side, when they divorced when the oldest turned 18, they had a very amicable divorce and get along very well now with family meals and holidays still together. Neither parent is perfect but I have come to peace with who they are, what they have tried to do and how they have loved us in their way. They are fallible but they did the best they could with what they had. I don't agree with much of it but I know they did try.

 

Just like having an affair and divorcing can hurt the kids, staying "for the kids" is hurtful especially if it is vocalized. I will never forget the evening, we were in the mini van, I was probably 10-12, and I remember exactly where we were and what road, and my mom said about how she couldn't leave because of the kids (money, etc) and talked about moving back to where she grew up. At that moment I realized and resolved that kids make you stuck in situations that you can't get out of and are the indirect reason for parent's unhappiness. I never thought about wanting to have kids until a few years ago, it was just such a vulnerable position to put ones' self. You tie yourself so intrinsically to another person and really set yourself up to be very hurt. Just seemed like a bad idea for me.

 

Or hearing my father say even now how he couldn't leave for the kids. Kids own it on all fronts. If parents aren't happy, kids aren't happy. The sad state is there are many parents who just aren't happy people and they pass that down to their kids.

 

So I detest a victim mentality in general. I refuse to create pretty much anything to anyone else especially negative and I want and feel I have full control over my life and making changes. Because both parents modeled that I am very hypersensitive to it. I don't tend to complain as much as others (that I have noticed around me), I take charge a lot, and I get very prickly with complainers. I have to watch that in a work setting as I don't deal patiently with "Eeyores".

[Lostinlife4now]

Can't means Won't!

 

 

 

My 2 cents!!!!

[AnotherRound]

I earn more than my husband. Several women I know earn more than their H's. I also know a couple stay at home dads whose W's work. I know a man who D'd and DID get custody of his child - 15 years ago.

 

There are always outliers to the norm.

[AnotherRound]

The norm is no longer so much the norm. Not in this day and age. Excuses can last forever, however.

 

Statistically, you're incorrect. The norm is, indeed, still the norm - at least here in the US. We women aren't even CLOSE to being equal to men in earnings and being the "heavies" financially, if you will... not even close.

[Act Two]

Everyone wants these things. There are, however, a small handful that would lie and sneak around and deceive to get them. I've tried to teach my children how to spot these snakes and why it is smart to avoid them.

 

Are you saying that only a small handful of people have affairs? Statistically, that is not correct.

[AnotherRound]

Are you saying that only a small handful of people have affairs? Statistically, that is not correct.

 

And it is my understanding that even statistically, we are way undershooting the actual numbers (due to many factors, including people being reluctant to be completely honest). And, if we are under shooting the real numbers - at 60% for men and 40 % for women (I think that's about what is agreed on) - imagine what the real numbers look like. 80% for men? 60% for women? Or even higher??? I mean, what's that put it at - 8 in 10 marriages for men and 6 in 10 marriage for women? That's a LOT of people - not a handful.

[Act Two]

The stats I'm finding say 12% of women and between 50-60% of men, so taking those figures together, yes - it is a MUCH smaller number than even 50% in totality.

 

The majority of people know how to be honest with their partners.

 

I'm taking stats from Not Just Friends, which states at "at least one or both parties in 50% of all couples...will break their vows of sexual or emotional exclusivity during the lifetime of the relationship."

 

I would not say that is the majority of people.

[AnotherRound]

I'm taking stats from Not Just Friends, which states at "at least one or both parties in 50% of all couples...will break their vows of sexual or emotional exclusivity during the lifetime of the relationship."

 

I would not say that is the majority of people.

 

I think if you take all stats, combine them, and average them out - it's going to be more than a handful. I don't think it has to be more than half for it to be "more than a handful"... I mean, we are talking hundreds of thousands of people here - maybe millions worldwide... that's a LOT of people. A handful is like 10 people in my mind - or 10% even.

 

Are we talking majority - or what? It may not be a majority - but it's definitely not "a handful".

[So happy together]

Sid Lyon, you asked some about the reasons, some are very private, a couple could be identifying if anyone knows he or I or her so I'll leave those out.

 

Some reasons are:

He does love her, he's never stopped. No matter how hard it is to live with her, he loves her.

He loves his family being in one place, in one home, he likes being there to spend time with the kids, they do a LOT together, and he likes them having access to his mom.

Extended family expectations.

She has issues. Her family hasn't been the kindest to her in her life and their "plan" for her care if she falls apart is pretty awful and something he DID promise her a long time ago that he would never let happen. That means something to him, and because of that, it means something to me.

He doesn't want to divide the kids from their mom, even if it's not the most ideal situation. The children they had together are old enough to understand a lot of their mom's situation.

I haven't asked him to leave, there's no motivation to do so, and in fact, at one time told him that if he left her for me, that we couldn't be together anymore.

Guilt, not because of me but because of other things that are important to him.

It's important to him that he provides for her. His kids too of course, but taking care of her is a priority to him.

 

Those are some of the generalized reasons.

I think its' really important to make a note of the fact that as I've said over and over, the reasons he stays really come down to, I don't need him to leave. He's never promised me he would, and I've never asked. We spoke of it at one point but there are other factors in my life that made us decide that it wasn't the best scenario at that time. Whether that would change, I have no idea, but I have no expectation that it will. When I say I'm not looking for him to leave, I MEAN that, so if he can stay for the reasons that are important to him without me saying that's a dealbreaker, and still have everything he has with me, why would he leave?

 

 

I am the complete antithesis of this. I wanted my MM to leave. I felt that if I was going to be in a R with him, it was important for me to have him to myself. To have a life together as a couple, to move on and be one another's one and only.

 

BUT THIS IS JUST ME.

 

I have NO judgement on staying in the A if it gives you happiness. If you get what you need from it. I say it every day: I believe in being happy, whatever that means for you. When I see anyone with a smile on their face, happiness in their heart, it makes me happy, too.

[So happy together]

What do these guys do during the day? Watch The View, have the car serviced and get their hair done?

 

Only kidding...I dunno...I just could never see myself in that role, now if J. Lo wants to ring me up I suppos I can swallow my pride...

 

TFOY

 

Actually, my daughter in law was just accepted into the premed program. My son is working full time, but they've decided when they have a baby, he'll be staying home with it. However, she is an only child, he has five siblings that are younger than he is. He is used to caring for children and if she makes a great living and loves what she does, I think it would be great if he could stay home with their baby.

[natty moppet]

please don't take offense at my question, as none is intended...

 

would you consider yourself to be truly "stuck", or are you making a choice that, for whatever your reasons may be, that staying and having an affair is an acceptable choice for you? Have you told your spouse you feel this way?

 

I am stuck in the sense that I have a variety of reasons preventing a D. Could I get a D and make it financially, yes. I have delineated a few of my reasons here before...I don't want to see my kids on a part time basis(selfish-maybe), I don't think my H is as good a Dad w/o my influence(selfish & judgmental), my husband has health issues(less-selfish), I have invested many years in our M, and I don't know if I want to throw that away, even though he does not fulfill me emotionally or intimately(selfish).

 

I have asked my spouse to make changes or I would get a D(threatening)...suggested an open marriage...etc. He doesn't not want to do either of these things, and says he will make the changes I am requesting...but then a day goes by and we are back at square one.

 

Does all this justify an A? Nope, probably not...sure sounds pretty good some days though. If I could be sure that I could do it with some emotional control, I probably would. I just don't trust that I won't get in over my head emotionally.

[AnotherRound]

I am stuck in the sense that I have a variety of reasons preventing a D. Could I get a D and make it financially, yes. I have delineated a few of my reasons here before...I don't want to see my kids on a part time basis(selfish-maybe), I don't think my H is as good a Dad w/o my influence(selfish & judgmental), my husband has health issues(less-selfish), I have invested many years in our M, and I don't know if I want to throw that away, even though he does not fulfill me emotionally or intimately(selfish).

 

I have asked my spouse to make changes or I would get a D(threatening)...suggested an open marriage...etc. He doesn't not want to do either of these things, and says he will make the changes I am requesting...but then a day goes by and we are back at square one.

 

Does all this justify an A? Nope, probably not...sure sounds pretty good some days though. If I could be sure that I could do it with some emotional control, I probably would. I just don't trust that I won't get in over my head emotionally.

 

This is the truth I often hear from WSs. My best friend is in a marriage with a man for over 25 years that she is not exactly happy with. She lists off the exact same reasons as you for staying. These are valid reasons to stay - they outweigh her own personal happiness. That's not selfish- it's exactly the opposite.

 

I think the hangup for some comes when the spouse that decides to sacrifice doesn't just give everything up and sacrifice EVERYTHING to stay in the relationship. That they have no right to seek happiness at all if they have made the decision to stay - in whatever capacity. I don't agree with this. I think they have every right to make the best of the situation that they are staying in - and I don't find that selfish at all. More than likely, the BS is partially responsible for the state of the situation too - and they too have the right to seek their happiness if they decide to stay - in whatever capacity.

[natty moppet]

This is the truth I often hear from WSs. My best friend is in a marriage with a man for over 25 years that she is not exactly happy with. She lists off the exact same reasons as you for staying. These are valid reasons to stay - they outweigh her own personal happiness. That's not selfish- it's exactly the opposite.

 

I think the hangup for some comes when the spouse that decides to sacrifice doesn't just give everything up and sacrifice EVERYTHING to stay in the relationship. That they have no right to seek happiness at all if they have made the decision to stay - in whatever capacity. I don't agree with this. I think they have every right to make the best of the situation that they are staying in - and I don't find that selfish at all. More than likely, the BS is partially responsible for the state of the situation too - and they too have the right to seek their happiness if they decide to stay - in whatever capacity.

 

That is EXACTLY the rub for me...

To have the PA(which is already an EA for me) is sooooo against my moral code that I have been really struggling with crossing that line--the EA is already bad enough. I do not wish to hurt my H or the MM'sW. However, the idea that I have no other opportunity for emotional/intimate happiness for the rest of my life is so smothering. In my 'crazy mind'...I keep thinking that since MM is in exactly the same situation as I am, that we could just have this little indulgence, no one would need to know, because we don't intend to carry on forever. In my 'sane mind' though, I fear that one or the other of us(probably me) would get too wrapped up in the emotional part of the A and be reluctant to stop when we needed to.

 

My H is largely responsible for the messy parts of our M, and he refuses(or is too lazy) to do anything about it. Again, in my 'crazy mind', I feel like I am a little justified in my behavior because I have given him every opportunity to choose and the choice he has made is to lie, subvert, and ultimately do nothing to make it better, but he won't let me go either-at least not in a civil amiable manner. The real me knows, however, that an A is not the answer, but neither is a D--for us.

[natty moppet]

Plus the risk I am taking, because of who this MM is, would be so great. Clearly, not a good choice.