Dday 19

[White Flower]

Hi, my name is White Flower and I'm an OW:rolleyes:

 

Ok, enough of the cheeky stuff. And actually I am an fOW. I'm here today to see if I can get into the head of a BS, I guess a BW more specifically, to see if I can comprehend what she is thinking after so many Ddays. 19, ouch, that's got to hurt.

 

But as I stated in another thread in this forum we are only victims in this game if we agree to be. Still, why do so many BW get stuck in repetitive behavior that they know is going to cause them so much angst and grief?

 

I haven't really been with xMM in a long time. Tbh, I can't remember when we were last "on", but there has been LC and he has broken trust with BW in order to maintain (or should I say regain) that contact. Dday 19 happened on Thanksgiving. She found a secret cell in which I replied to his "Happy Thanksgiving" with my own, "Hi, Happy Thanksgiving". She confronted him when he was passed out on the couch, drunk and after guests had left, (he never got drunk with me in our 7 years together btw), and asked him wth is this cell phone? She ranted and raved (his words) and demanded he call me to say its over to which he said no way, it's late, and nothing is going on anyway. She said he shouldn't care about waking me or disturbing my holiday and he disagreed but said he'll get rid of the cell in the morning. (He didn't, and she didn't pretend to enforce it either). She stormed off saying she needed to put on a happy face because she was doing another TG feast for her son the next day because he couldn't be there that day and she didn't have time to deal with this., and he could just stay on the couch for all she cares (which was his plan anyway).

 

After finding so many cell phones over the years (several for me and others with OOW over the years), why would BW think her WH will stop doing what makes him happy? And why does she think just by being home he's happy with her?

 

Why would she believe calling me in front of her will make me believe he is serious this time, as if I didn't laugh in their faces last time? And as if he's not going to purchase another cell phone? And as if she isn't going to take him back each time there is a discovery?

 

They are in their 60s. Come on, he's never going to be what she wants him to be! Even I've realized he isn't going to be what I need, and he still loves me!

 

And why does she think after 5 (she only knows about 5) OW, four years of IC, and countless other evidence that nothing is working does she hope to believe one day he will fall in love with her again?

 

OW are constantly being called delusional but oftentimes I think it is the BW who is being delusional.

 

Thanks for your thoughtful and honest (and hopefully not too mean) responses. I really want to know why this kind of person tolerates so much.

[ComingInHot]

Whit Flower,

I got nothing for ya*

If there is ever a D-day numero dos, H is getting his balls chopped and handed to the OW lovingly wrapped in copies of the D papers where it will show how NOT the victim I am.

[Mme. Chaucer]

It seems more like being in denial than delusional. Denial works just as well for a person with a cheating spouse who is dreaming of a big change as it does for someone in a relationship with a married person who is dreaming of a big change.

 

Of course, whatever combination of initials you like to use to define yourself really has little to do with how you'll deal with a cheater, or how you'll handle yourself in that situation.

[Furious]

Perhaps you and his wife are more alike than you'd care to admit.

Edited April 18, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[xxoo]

They are in their 60s. Come on, he's never going to be what she wants him to be! Even I've realized he isn't going to be what I need, and he still loves me!

 

And why does she think after 5 (she only knows about 5) OW, four years of IC, and countless other evidence that nothing is working does she hope to believe one day he will fall in love with her again?

 

Maybe he also convinces her that he loves her.

[Artie Lang]

if you're so "over it," why do you even care what goes on between them?

[96nole]

D-Day #2 was me discovering she sent pictures of herself to dirtbag in the morning. By noon I had an appointment with my lawyer. By 6pm, ex wife was thrown out the door. Divorce finalized 3.5 months later. No delusion here.

 

I can't tell you why the BS in your story would stay after 19 DDays. Money, lifestyle, love, no self respect, etc.

 

But my questions are:

Why didn't he ever leave her with all the ddays and OOW? Why didn't he leave her for you? Especially if it's you that he loves.

 

Seems like there is plenty of delusion to go around.

[eleanorrigby]

I think its kind of like what happens to a woman that is being beaten by her husband. It changes a person. I've read that our brains physically change in response to trauma.

She's caught in this dance and doesn't know how to get out of it or even change the steps.

[AnotherRound]

I think its kind of like what happens to a woman that is being beaten by her husband. It changes a person. I've read that our brains physically change in response to trauma.

She's caught in this dance and doesn't know how to get out of it or even change the steps.

 

Do you happen to remember where you read this about the brain changes? And, if it applied to adults? It has been my understanding that this change is not possible from one instance of trauma - but has to be repeatedly and consistently for some time, and I have always understood that it was only pre-complete brain development. Are you insinuating that adults experience neuro-pathway changes as a result of experiencing infidelity at some point in their adult lives? I would be interested to read more about this if you have some sources or links (if you can remember where you read it! I know for me, I'm reading so many things all the time I often can't remember where I picked up some little tidbit!). Thanks!

[eleanorrigby]

I recall a previous discussion where affairs were debated as in if they are abuse or not. Don't mean to make assumptions but you are calling it trauma because it is abuse, especially serial cheating, correct?

 

Oh and I agree, it is.

 

Yes, you got me.

[eleanorrigby]

Do you happen to remember where you read this about the brain changes? And, if it applied to adults? It has been my understanding that this change is not possible from one instance of trauma - but has to be repeatedly and consistently for some time, and I have always understood that it was only pre-complete brain development. Are you insinuating that adults experience neuro-pathway changes as a result of experiencing infidelity at some point in their adult lives? I would be interested to read more about this if you have some sources or links (if you can remember where you read it! I know for me, I'm reading so many things all the time I often can't remember where I picked up some little tidbit!). Thanks!

 

Yes, I believe that physical abuse, or repeated emotional abuse can change a person.

[AnotherRound]

Yes, I believe that physical abuse, or repeated emotional abuse can change a person.

 

I agree - but "changing a person" and "changing the way our brains work" are two totally different things. Aren't they? Anyway, if you don't have a link or a source, I understand - like I said, I read a lot too and am often at a loss as to exactly where I read something. But, if someone in the science world is saying that adult brains (fully formed) can be changed by one instance of trauma (if the person sees a case of infidelity as a trauma - not everyone perceives it that way) - I would really like to read it. I will research it on my own - but was hopeful that you would have a quick link to save me the time.

[AnotherRound]

It happens in adults, too. Up until the 60's, it was thought that brain changes only happened with children. They've known for quite a long time that trauma makes those changes in adults, too. Infidelity is trauma, so the answer to your question is yes.

 

Tomorrow I have EMDR therapy, so this has all be explained to me quite well.

 

Huh - I haven't heard this. Well, other than in extreme and severe cases (shell shock and such) where it is continuous and consistent - not a one time thing (like death of a loved one) which usually results in depression and perhaps some PTSD depending on circumstances - but actual brain changes past the developed brain? That's new to me... I will look it up. I am familiar with EMDR therapy - do you happen to have any links or sources handy that could get my research started?

[AnotherRound]

It happens in adults, too. Up until the 60's, it was thought that brain changes only happened with children. They've known for quite a long time that trauma makes those changes in adults, too. Infidelity is trauma, so the answer to your question is yes.

 

Tomorrow I have EMDR therapy, so this has all be explained to me quite well.

 

And ps - not everyone that experiences infidelity considers it a "trauma". I know that the majority here seem to - but that is not always the case and not for everyone. So - if someone doesn't perceive it as a trauma - they aren't going to have these long lasting reactions to it - to them, it might be no bigger an impact in their life than say, almost getting hit by a car or something. To them, it isn't a big deal - or at least, not a trauma inducing deal.

[eleanorrigby]

I agree - but "changing a person" and "changing the way our brains work" are two totally different things. Aren't they? Anyway, if you don't have a link or a source, I understand - like I said, I read a lot too and am often at a loss as to exactly where I read something. But, if someone in the science world is saying that adult brains (fully formed) can be changed by one instance of trauma (if the person sees a case of infidelity as a trauma - not everyone perceives it that way) - I would really like to read it. I will research it on my own - but was hopeful that you would have a quick link to save me the time.

 

IMO it's the same thing. If my brain has been changed, then I'm changed. And we were talking about serial infidelity in this instance. Though, I still believe that even one instance can change a person.

[White Flower]

Perhaps you and his wife are more alike than you'd care to admit.

 

Seems as though both of you are clinging to a moron.

I'm out of it, or didn't you read that part?

Maybe he also convinces her that he loves her.

I'm sure he does. I'm sure she convinces herself as well.

if you're so "over it," why do you even care what goes on between them?

I don't know about you but when I've invested years into someone I care about I follow up with updates when I run into them. The same is true for my xH and other exes.

D-Day #2 was me discovering she sent pictures of herself to dirtbag in the morning. By noon I had an appointment with my lawyer. By 6pm, ex wife was thrown out the door. Divorce finalized 3.5 months later. No delusion here.

 

I can't tell you why the BS in your story would stay after 19 DDays. Money, lifestyle, love, no self respect, etc.

 

But my questions are:

Why didn't he ever leave her with all the ddays and OOW? Why didn't he leave her for you? Especially if it's you that he loves.

 

Seems like there is plenty of delusion to go around.

I was in his IC's office when he discussed choosing love (for me) over the status quo (for her), so it didn't seem all that delusional to me. He has no OOW now, not even me, so why you would think I'm delusional is beyond me. I asked a question and I thank you for your answer.

 

WF, well I'm not a bs here as you know, but my father was a serial cheater. My mother never put her foot down firmly enough. I have come to believe that she was just as dysfunctional as he was in different ways. Also I'm sorry to say this, but don't you think your own contribution to it and staying thru 19 of them is dysfunctional on your part? IMO it is, there is plenty of dysfunction to go all around.

Who said I stayed through 19 of them!!!??? Just because I am aware if the Ddays does not mean I stayed with him!

 

But I will agree there is a massive mutual dysfunction there.

[AnotherRound]

P.S. What's your point? It's traumatic and a big deal to MOST people.

 

My point was - I wanted to read the research on it. I hadn't heard of it - and was interested in learning more about it. I was simply pointing out that sometimes, "trauma" is relative, depending on the person - bc I think that's important to remember (that not all people react the same in the same situations).

 

Is there an issue with me asking for links or resources so that I can be more knowledgeable about a certain topic that interests me?????

[White Flower]

I'm just trying to fathom why you think this is something to be proud of or brag worthy? You seem to somehow think you are somehow better than her because you know the score, or so you think.

 

I'm seriously confused whether we are all suppose to feel pity or disgust for everyone involved in this dysfunctional effed up triangle?? Are all the BS's on this site suppose to feel sad because you have pulled one over on another bs??? Are the other OW's suppose to give you high fives because you have just posted how stupid all bs's must be???

 

I feel like I need to shower after reading a post from you, it leaves me feeling dirty and like I have just finished reading some sort of bad harlequin wanna be novel.

 

I'm sad that you feel that way paper angel. I posed an honest question and hoped for an honest answer. If you can't provide one, then why post?

 

I want to know what makes this woman put up with it. She has told him she doesn't love him the way a wife ought to love her H yet she clings. If course, this was in response to him saying the same thing first. Maybe she was just bluffing?

[ComingInHot]

AnotherRound, " To them, it isn't a big deal - or at least, not a trauma inducing deal."

 

Really?! I haven't come across one single BS that thinks " Oh. my H's having an A and double sticking his hoo hoo into both me and some strange person. Eh. Whatever. No biggie. I've had worse happen".

 

I'm exhausted AR, so forgive my short, curt responses, but as far as chemical changes in brain function associated w/trauma of some kind, like Infidelty, you could probably just Google it,

[AnotherRound]

AnotherRound, " To them, it isn't a big deal - or at least, not a trauma inducing deal."

 

Really?! I haven't come across one single BS that thinks " Oh. my H's having an A and double sticking his hoo hoo into both me and some strange person. Eh. Whatever. No biggie. I've had worse happen".

 

I'm exhausted AR, so forgive my short, curt responses, but as far as chemical changes in brain function associated w/trauma of some kind, like Infidelty, you could probably just Google it,

 

 

No problem. I did google it- but can't find any reputable sources, only the infidelity boards (and not that they aren't useful, but they aren't presenting any research regarding this topic). That's why I was hoping that ER, who mentioned that she had read that somewhere, would have some sources or links, although (as I stated) I would understand if she didn't.

 

And, there are people who truly just let stuff "roll off" - even infidelity. I never said it was the majority - but there are quite a few who wouldn't even be phased by it - just their nature. So, to them, it wouldn't be trauma. That's all I was saying - I'm not sure why it's getting such a reaction honestly. If it doesn't apply to you - then it doesn't - but not everyone is traumatized by the same things - I don't make the rules on that ya know...

[AnotherRound]

My point was - I wanted to read the research on it. I hadn't heard of it - and was interested in learning more about it. I was simply pointing out that sometimes, "trauma" is relative, depending on the person - bc I think that's important to remember (that not all people react the same in the same situations).

 

Is there an issue with me asking for links or resources so that I can be more knowledgeable about a certain topic that interests me?????

 

Let me clarify here - just because one person experienced trauma from infidelity - and let's say hypothetically that their brain chemistry/layout was changed by it (I can't say that as I have seen no research that backs that up at this time) - I was just pointing out that infidelity does not automatically = brain changes. In that, some people wouldn't see it as traumatic - upsetting, yes... frustrating, yes... disappointing, yes... but not necessarily traumatic. We have to react in certain ways for certain brain activities to happen - and if we don't feel traumatized, our brain isn't going to just act traumatized bc it "should".

 

So, if someone doesn't see it as traumatic, and isn't affected in a traumatic way - then their brains would not respond as if responding to trauma. It sounded to me like there might be the assumption that anyone that experiences infidelity automatically experiences trauma - and that just isn't true. Hence, why some people can do certain jobs and others can't - we all have very different thresholds and tolerances and such.

[eleanorrigby]

Let me clarify here - just because one person experienced trauma from infidelity - and let's say hypothetically that their brain chemistry/layout was changed by it (I can't say that as I have seen no research that backs that up at this time) - I was just pointing out that infidelity does not automatically = brain changes.

 

No one said that.

[AnotherRound]

No one said that.

 

I know that nobody said that - it seemed like that might be being assumed. I didn't say that anyone said it...

 

Well, I will research it on my own. This thread seems a bit too hostile for someone just asking for some sources or links for further reading. Nothing wrong with educating ourselves, imo... sheesh....

[2sunny]

And ps - not everyone that experiences infidelity considers it a "trauma". I know that the majority here seem to - but that is not always the case and not for everyone. So - if someone doesn't perceive it as a trauma - they aren't going to have these long lasting reactions to it - to them, it might be no bigger an impact in their life than say, almost getting hit by a car or something. To them, it isn't a big deal - or at least, not a trauma inducing deal.

 

Are you serious?

 

Are you saying that infidelity isn't traumatic? Even several rounds of finding out cheating happened?

 

And yes, as we age, lots and lots of trauma throughout the years does change a person!

 

Take several deaths in the family (even a newborn), cheating, lies, difficult moves and changes - yes, those affect a person - especially if its a sensitive person!

 

Then consider internalizing all the trauma - and lying to self, add in a happy face that pretends everything is ok - then add in divorce after another D-Day = boom = yes, a changed and broken person!!!

 

How can that not affect a person?

 

We are ALL a product of our own experiences and perspective!

 

To say that trauma doesn't affect the brain is just absurd! Some handle trauma better than others! Some numb the emotional pain...

 

Some work through it and past it to the other side! But not enough of them.

 

Trauma affects everyone - it all depends if the person experiencing the trauma stays authentic and feels and acknowledges the trauma instead of tufting it down so deep by pretending its not real.

[eleanorrigby]

I know that nobody said that - it seemed like that might be being assumed. I didn't say that anyone said it...

 

Well, I will research it on my own. This thread seems a bit too hostile for someone just asking for some sources or links for further reading. Nothing wrong with educating ourselves, imo... sheesh....

 

It's a very interesting subject, maybe I'll gather some links and post them elsewhere on the forum one day for you.