Dday 19

[ComingInHot]

Yuck.

 

Nothing less classy than a couple of older than middle-aged females baggin' on some Sixty year old BW because you involved yourself w/her H and their M & life.

 

Nice.

Come-on ladies, you have got to be better than this. I know you are better than what you have been posting here!

Please

[White Flower]

Ok, I went through multiple Ddays.

 

From my perspective, I couldn't keep anything in my life together long enough to figure out whether I wanted to go, stay, recover or kick his ass so hard it popped out his eyes.

 

It wasn't just the Ddays that slammed into me constantly, it was the never-ending emotional abuse and hopeful moments and lists of excuses and controlling behaviour that just kept my adrenaline sky-high, and me unable to sleep.

 

I went through it for three years!

 

I couldn't mentally or emotionally process very much beyond getting up innthe morning, taking care of my infant daughter and trying to avoid my irrational,

explosive, selfish, demeaning husband from blowing out or reacting nutty. Or taking all of our money and taking off. (yea, it happened).

 

It wasn't until it just went too damn far that I managed to throw him out.

 

And honestly, your brain gets so twisted by it that you are told how it's "all your fault" because xyz. Because they RARELY take any responsibility. Mine didn't until LONG AFTER he was kicked out.

 

So here I was, the only somewhat responsible ADULT in the house trying to take care of an infant and just FUNCTION during the day.

 

I had NO IDEA how miserably depressed I was since I was being hammered on daily about it being all my fault. I hated my life and I really, really resented my husband but lacked the courage to point-blank shoot him out of the sky because of the explosive consequences foresaw. The consequences came anyway.

 

And then after they did, things looked much clearer.

DoT, I remember those early days and trying to offer you support here. I really felt for you (and still do).

 

Your story is a bit different with all the added layers, IIRC, of addiction, lifestyle, and that precious baby you had as a cute little sidekick all day long. It is never harder to deal with anything than to deal with it with a baby-in-arms so I applaud you for any amount of time you took to figure out what you had to do.

 

But this couple is in their 60s, retired, and have plenty of money where neither will land up in crack houses (who brought that up anyway??) So, my guess is BW is taking 'the abuse' of consecutive and multiple Ddays for the benefit of lavish comfort and a persona which includes competition.

 

I can't recall if I already posted this but he told me last night that she demanded he call me and tell me xyz. He stood up to her and said no. He's developing SOME kind of cojones.

[White Flower]

I think this post gives a good window into what it does to the emotions to be in a situation like this.

 

Also, I'm sure the cycle of abuse plays well into this. You hook or re-hook (after a d-day, maybe) a person into the relationship with you by giving them respect, love, hope, ect. When they are lulled into a feeling of security, when they are caught off guard, then you start the abuse (control tactics.) I don't know what tactics the mm (exmm?) is using here with the bw, but I wouldn't be suprised if he was loving, charming, warm with the bw after the ddays, and then, when she was hooked again, he'd go back to the ow (ow's?). The cycle is a system, or tool, that works very well at messing with a person's mind. When a person's mind becomes so twisted from this, it is much harder for them to see clear and make healthy decisions for themselves.

I would agree to this if there was trauma to the brain but not emotions, especially with regard to the status and resources available to this particular BS. She could have, and should have, come out of this a long time ago. If she were my friend I'd say the same thing to her.

[White Flower]

my .02 cents. Re: Why she stays

 

Some people will stay in a marriage because that's what they feel they have to do. It's this ultimate "failure" if they quit it. No. Matter. What.

 

Some people LIKE to be the victim. i.e., Poor, poor, me. My husband keeps cheating on me. I say they like to be the victim/martyr as they do nothing at all to change the situation. Instead of doing something positive, like, go for counseling, or kick him to the curb, make some boundries, they'd rather just stay in their victim/martyr role. My mother does this really well. If you point out that they have some power to make their own personal happiness, they reject those ideas. It makes them uncomfortable because that requires CHANGE on their part.

 

Some people really have control issues. I think again of my own mother. She didn't really want my father back, and she made sure that everyday that he was back he was MISERABLE. I've seen women that once they "catch" their husband cheating, and one that even just THOUGHT that her man might cheat, put so many conditions on the lives of their WS that it was more of a prisoner/prison guard kinda relationship. The BS never thinks that she can be loved by another. Not that she doesn't think she is good enough, but that the thought never crosses her mind. She cannot forget and she cannot let go either.

 

Because to me, personally, if I have to go through that much work to see what my husband is up to all the time, well, I don't want to be with him if I have that many trust issues with him. I just couldn't deal with having to put that much work into keeping my mind in the know that he wasn't doing whatever it was that I caught him doing that I didn't like. (I have no such worries about those things with my husband) Reading his emails and texts and phone and gps! Far too much work for me.

 

I had some ex in laws that lived in another country. Two of my ex husbands aunts that had raised families, and maintained separate houses from their husbands. Though they would "allow" their husband to stay there from time to time. Drunken and philandering men. But they would NOT get divorced. Because it was this UBER SIN. They would have been ostracized by everyone. I would say that the older the person is, it's more likely that they hold some traditional beliefs when it comes to marriage. The idea of NOT being married just is not ever an option to them.

 

And some people just THRIVE in toxic, dysfunctional, relationships. They enjoy making up. They're like really bad country music songs. I know a few couples that live that way. They never really break up. Their lives are filled with DRAMA. I often feel they are bored and need to create drama to feel they are alive or something. I dunno.

 

And WS? I'm glad that you are gone from this man's life. Truly. Maybe he was a great affair partner, but it does not sound like he is something to keep.

 

And please, I am not saying that the BS is wrong in her feelings or anything at all. Because I don't KNOW these people. I'm just answering a general question based on things that I've seen in my life.

OMG you have no idea how funny this is to me! (and so true).

 

The italicized part is definitely indicative of the codependent lifestyle. Ugh, it sounds so horrible to have to endure that kind of lifestyle for an entire life!

[whichwayisup]

I think this is where so many BS don't get the OW's mindset; we don't throw in the towel easily either, but we are not governed by a piece of paper...we are governed by our hearts.

 

Just my .02

 

Excellent point - And with that I'll add, if an OW hangs onto her MM, goes through the ups and downs of many d-days, why is so shocking that a BS hangs on as well? Doesn't throw in the towel and doesn't want to give up on her marriage and wants to fight for her husband.

 

Not directed at you at all WF, but some have a mindset that a BS should just hand over her husband to the OW. If it's so hard for an OW (or OM) to let go of their MM/MW, why is so hard to understand why a BS doesn't want to let go either? A BS has a hell of a lot more invested (reasons are obvious) than the AP.

[White Flower]

Another comment from me. I think the majority of BS's that post here at LS are not women who would tolerate serial cheating or continued cheating. I think LS is unique in that because when I was learning all I could about infidelity I found other infidelity sites where d days and number of affairs are part of their sigs and the numbers were appalling.

That is a good point LG. I wonder if it's true or if the atmosphere just doesn't lend to telling the truth entirely here? I know it's hard for new OWs to be entirely truthful due to the tone at this site.

[White Flower]

Excellent point - And with that I'll add, if an OW hangs onto her MM, goes through the ups and downs of many d-days, why is so shocking that a BS hangs on as well? Doesn't throw in the towel and doesn't want to give up on her marriage and wants to fight for her husband.

 

Not directed at you at all WF, but some have a mindset that a BS should just hand over her husband to the OW. If it's so hard for an OW (or OM) to let go of their MM/MW, why is so hard to understand why a BS doesn't want to let go either? A BS has a hell of a lot more invested (reasons are obvious) than the AP.

I know you know I don't believe that BW should just hand her H over to me. I actually believe that someone should come to you on their own, just as they did when they first pursued you. With that said I don't fight for any R I just fight for the conditions within them.

 

The "obvious reasons" many BW stay are disgusting to me. Sorry, but love is first and foremost in my life and everything else is secondary. I can hang on for love, not for assets, status, and trophy Hs. I am, however, sentimental, so I get hanging on for the memories, but I even draw a line there if the love isn't mutual and strong.

 

And to clarify, 'hanging on' when in love is not the same thing as clinging to a lifestyle, etc., and using guilt as a tool to do so.

[White Flower]

A different point of view.....Some BS do not govern their lives by a piece of paper either. The vows do not equal the paper. The vows are a covenant between the spouses and God. While I know that not every marriage is based on that premise...a great number are. We have even seen it on here from the AP point of view. He is guilty because of his spiritual beliefs type thing. I think if it is recognized that the piece of paper is not the issue and that the hear promises made were deeply felt and are the issue....there might be a bit more understanding from all positions.

Thank you for your different POV Bent, and I could have stated it as eloquently as you did but I thought the paper statement was statement enough. Guess I was wrong. Thank you for making my statement less lazy.

 

I was there once, and hoped my H would honor his promises made on our wedding day. But over the years I began to realize how ridiculous it is to believe that we can make a promise in our youth and carry it through to the Golden age. It can be done, especially if you're blessed with someone who is easy to love, but love fails, people change, or at least a lot do, and you have to forgive them for making promises they were never capable of making in the first place.

 

I no longer blame my H for changing. We all change and we all grow. Most of the time that means we should move on and accept it.

[White Flower]

I guess you will have to ask the person who saw some BS's facebook page.

If you do find out why the grand kid doesn't get to be on the veranda also would you?

 

I don't know how you are going to find someone on here who can give you insight, unless there is someone else here who has had even close to 19 d days.

I'll bet if you weren't a BW and I weren't a fOW we'd seriously get to laughing IRL!

[White Flower]

But she isn't here posting that. From what WF said, it sounds like she'd putting on a happy face in public, and dealing with her philandering husband privately.

 

Why should she leave her marriage? I mean, I can give all the reasons I would leave, but does that mean that she is doing something wrong by staying? I don't think so.

It is if she is expecting something different. It is if she is getting hurt. It is if her friends and family are tired of the same old stories. In fact, some friends have dumped them as a couple because they got tired of hearing her complain about it. They "got tired of their drama" according to a mutual friend who is close and in the know.

[Mme. Chaucer]

No problem. I did google it- but can't find any reputable sources, only the infidelity boards (and not that they aren't useful, but they aren't presenting any research regarding this topic).

 

That's not honest, AR. I just googled "Trauma from infidelity" and got dozens of results, and not from infidelity boards.

 

Here's a reputable source, IMO:

 

Understanding Relationship, Sexual, and Intimate Betrayal as Trauma (PTSD) | Sex and Intimacy

 

You might consider doctor Deb Schwarz Hirschhorn(Phd) a reputable source; she has written at length of cheating or even lesser forms of betrayal as being abusive, and of the trauma experienced by those on the receiving end.

 

If you were sincerely interested, though, you would have noticed these on the first page of your google search.

 

Do you have any reliable sources for your claims that being betrayed is not traumatizing? Not counting you and the 4 or 5 others here who are claiming it?

[White Flower]

Has he self-actualized?

 

Before the last couple of weeks I would have vociferously said no! Well, he has in many ways otherwise he wouldn't be enjoying the fruits of the success he's had in his life but personally? Not so much.

 

I asked today how he knows how he is ready to leave and he says because the numbness he feels is not worth the comfort zone he went back for.

 

Like I said I don't talk him into leaving her and when he calls I ask him probing questions about where he is and how he got there. The statement above shows me he is leaning more and more to self-actualization in his personal life. It's a small step and may not amount to anything but it's an example of something he realized on his own.

[William]

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