Anyone Happy w your Affair?

[Athens]

Yes, I am pissed at the OW because she is making my life hell. She is the one that calls, texts, etc... Refuses to take responsibility for her own feelings and actions. Hysterical bonding is a lot of fun, but we also have issues we are working through. Believe me, my husband is paying for what he has done. Never said all is rosy in my world, but I have zero problems calling a spade a spade. She never lead on that she wanted more, he would have left...he never told her they would be anything more than a fling. He was oh so wrong in what he did to me, but she had the benefit of the truth from him and thought she could either handle it or wrangle her way into something more. I get that this upsets you, maybe you see some of yourself in her, if you do, I hope that you take the steps to protect yourself and your heart. However, none of this changes that for my situation, each of us are laying in the bed we made for ourselves. My husband owes her nothing more than what was promised. He also owes me nothing more than what was promised, the difference is he promised to love me for better or for worse, and I did the same. We are honoring what we said we would, she needs to do the same and move on. She has a husband and friends to console her, she need not intrude on our lives as she has. PERIOD!

[So happy together]

Yes, I am pissed at the OW because she is making my life hell. She is the one that calls, texts, etc... Refuses to take responsibility for her own feelings and actions. Hysterical bonding is a lot of fun, but we also have issues we are working through. Believe me, my husband is paying for what he has done. Never said all is rosy in my world, but I have zero problems calling a spade a spade. She never lead on that she wanted more, he would have left...he never told her they would be anything more than a fling. He was oh so wrong in what he did to me, but she had the benefit of the truth from him and thought she could either handle it or wrangle her way into something more. I get that this upsets you, maybe you see some of yourself in her, if you do, I hope that you take the steps to protect yourself and your heart. However, none of this changes that for my situation, each of us are laying in the bed we made for ourselves. My husband owes her nothing more than what was promised. He also owes me nothing more than what was promised, the difference is he promised to love me for better or for worse, and I did the same. We are honoring what we said we would, she needs to do the same and move on. She has a husband and friends to console her, she need not intrude on our lives as she has. PERIOD!

 

 

Actually, no. I don't see myself in her. My EMR was completely different, as I have stated. His stbxw is an alcoholic. He raised their daughter. Stayed until that was handled. We began a EMR, then a year later, he left. I don't stalk his stbxw, I don't bother her. In fact, his daughter called me once and screamed at me, calling me every name in the book because the stbxw dragged her into the middle. However, she's become more accepting now. As I said before also, I don't feel bad for the stbxw being hurt because she put my boyfriend through that for at least ten years before he finally found me, and then left. She never cared what she was doing to him. He tried everything, to no avail.

 

So, don't say I see myself in your H's AP. Not even close. It's like comparing apples and nuclear warheads.

[TaraMaiden]

It was a slap in the face to my parents who raised me Christian, so I guess I should have kept it secret or acted like I was miserable being an atheist?

 

It's not the same thing. Your argument is a smoke and mirrors one....

 

You're just professing your disbelief in something they can't prove. There are millions of atheists living in, near, with or alongside their Christian families, and there is no public humiliation, betrayal, indignity or shame.

Being an atheist is nowhere near as unacceptable socially as being an adulterer.

 

Sure your family may have been offended, but in the great, global, sociual scheme of things - so what?

 

You could, for example, move to a territory where atheism is not akin to being leprous.

Whereas adultery is pretty much schytt-street-squared.

Particularly if you don't want the BS's finding out how ecstatically happy you actually are screwing someone else.

 

Imagine how much worse your public announcement would have been if you had gleefully admitted not only your disbelief in God, but the fact you were open and proud about screwing your neighbour's old man.

 

That would have gone down a bomb, wouldn't it?

[Decorative]

I'm an atheist and a feminist too. But those things are innately moral. Human happiness, progress and survival expands by leaving behind primitive religious belief and misogyny.

 

But affairs are predicated on LYING. They are the act of keeping your family, the people who build their life around your vow, in the dark about activities which could permanently destroy their lives.

 

And so, no matter how much a cheat "sticks up for their lifestyle" its NEVER going to become acceptable. We can NOT allow lying to become acceptable in a society because the consequences would be monsterous.

 

Why, if you consider yourself moral, are you encouraging people to propagate lying?

 

Another atheist and feminist here. Completely agree.

[Decorative]

Actually, no. I don't see myself in her. My EMR was completely different, as I have stated. His stbxw is an alcoholic. He raised their daughter. Stayed until that was handled. We began a EMR, then a year later, he left. I don't stalk his stbxw, I don't bother her. In fact, his daughter called me once and screamed at me, calling me every name in the book because the stbxw dragged her into the middle. However, she's become more accepting now. As I said before also, I don't feel bad for the stbxw being hurt because she put my boyfriend through that for at least ten years before he finally found me, and then left. She never cared what she was doing to him. He tried everything, to no avail.

 

So, don't say I see myself in your H's AP. Not even close. It's like comparing apples and nuclear warheads.

 

Didn't you just tell me you were trying to be kind to her??

 

Yeesh.

 

Listen. You? Do not know the truth of their marriage. you just donmt have all of the information.

 

She may be an alcoholic.

 

She may have turned to it as a poor coping skill.

 

But you don't truly understand their dynamic.

 

And that is what you seem to be not understanding.

 

And I think- for the sake of your future happiness, you need to take a step back and realize that.

 

It is highly unlikely that the person in the marriage who cheats is a saint. Highly unlikely.

 

Pay attention. It's important.

[Decorative]

Someday feminism and atheism will become socially acceptable because they benefit society as a whole. My parents have come around 100% because their concerns were unfounded.

This probably won't happen for EMR, but if OP wants to be accepted by society she could do so by being open, honest, and demonstrating concerns are unfounded. The concerns probably will be founded though for all of the reasons you stated.

 

The thing is? You cannot demonstrate the a deceptive relation offers no harm.

 

You cannot reach an "unfounded" state of concern with regards to an affair.

 

Deception and cheating are harmful acts. Period.

[Got it]

I'm an atheist and a feminist too. But those things are innately moral. Human happiness, progress and survival expands by leaving behind primitive religious belief and misogyny.

 

But affairs are predicated on LYING. They are the act of keeping your family, the people who build their life around your vow, in the dark about activities which could permanently destroy their lives.

 

And so, no matter how much a cheat "sticks up for their lifestyle" its NEVER going to become acceptable. We can NOT allow lying to become acceptable in a society because the consequences would be monsterous.

Why, if you consider yourself moral, are you encouraging people to propagate lying?

 

As an atheist, wouldn't you argue that is exactly what religion has been doing towards the masses?

[Decorative]

As an atheist, wouldn't you argue that is exactly what religion has been doing towards the masses?

 

People openly choose to participate in a religion.

 

Betrayed spouses do not choose to be involved in the triangle.

 

Knowledge and choice and acceptance are important.

[Got it]

People openly choose to participate in a religion.

 

Betrayed spouses do not choose to be involved in the triangle.

 

Knowledge and choice and acceptance are important.

 

But if religion is wrong in what it touts, as must atheist will argue it is false in its very premise, than it is a lie that is being propagated to the masses. So they are selling a lie as the truth and delivering that to people. The whole going to hell if you don't believe is a bit of gaslighting there.

 

So there is some gaslighting and trickle truth in the whole premise.

 

Anyway, just a side track and not the point of the thread. Another atheist here so just a line of thought that popped into my head.

[BrownBarbie]

I hope you are still seeing your lover. I understand your relationship. I hope you never get caught and continue to experience the happiness you are receiving from him.

I imagine that he even makes you love your husband more. I get that. That burst of energy you get when you see him or hear from him makes you a better person over all. Blah, middle finger to society and their rules... I'm no rebel. I've always done everything by the books (work, school, taxes, drug free etc). We should be allowed to break a "moral" rule. i also love my spouse but I too have an "understanding" with someone else, a lover. It's not as pleasant as your situation bc my lover is single and has nothing to lose.

 

Nonetheless I wish you lots of happiness and great sex from both of your guys. Please don't get caught.

[Decorative]

But if religion is wrong in what it touts, as must atheist will argue it is false in its very premise, than it is a lie that is being propagated to the masses. So they are selling a lie as the truth and delivering that to people. The whole going to hell if you don't believe is a bit of gaslighting there.

 

So there is some gaslighting and trickle truth in the whole premise.

 

Anyway, just a side track and not the point of the thread. Another atheist here so just a line of thought that popped into my head.

 

But people have a choice.

 

They can evaluate the information and choose to be an adherent or not.

 

I get where you're going with this line of thought - I just don't agree with it. You don't belong to a particular religion without knowing it. You aren't a member of a congregation where the people who brought you in never told you that you belong.

[TaraMaiden]

I hope you are still seeing your lover. I understand your relationship. I hope you never get caught and continue to experience the happiness you are receiving from him.

I imagine that he even makes you love your husband more. I get that. That burst of energy you get when you see him or hear from him makes you a better person over all. Blah, middle finger to society and their rules... I'm no rebel. I've always done everything by the books (work, school, taxes, drug free etc). We should be allowed to break a "moral" rule. i also love my spouse but I too have an "understanding" with someone else, a lover. It's not as pleasant as your situation bc my lover is single and has nothing to lose.

 

Nonetheless I wish you lots of happiness and great sex from both of your guys. Please don't get caught.

"Please.... don't.... get.....caught."

 

Like lying is something you should be really proud of. Worth holding your head up high with that one.

 

Not one single cheater has yet been able to demonstrate or explain to me, clearly, succinctly and logically why they believe it is perfectly okay, acceptable and honourable, to continue to lie, to betray, to deceive and to undermine the relationship they have with their spouse.

 

I get that sometimes marriages are difficult to end; I get that sometimes it's not practical, there and then to pull the plug.

 

But I don't get this gleeful triumphant attitude to being an out and out cheating liar, and I'd love someone to explain it to me please.

[So happy together]

Didn't you just tell me you were trying to be kind to her??

 

Yeesh.

 

Listen. You? Do not know the truth of their marriage. you just donmt have all of the information.

 

She may be an alcoholic.

 

She may have turned to it as a poor coping skill.

 

But you don't truly understand their dynamic.

 

And that is what you seem to be not understanding.

 

And I think- for the sake of your future happiness, you need to take a step back and realize that.

 

It is highly unlikely that the person in the marriage who cheats is a saint. Highly unlikely.

 

Pay attention. It's important.

 

What I've said is not unkind. It is simply the truth. I'm sorry if it offends you. I also stated I had a difficult time being kind with the things that she's put him through. And I do understand their dynamic. He was a caretaker and a money maker.

[Got it]

But people have a choice.

 

They can evaluate the information and choose to be an adherent or not.

 

I get where you're going with this line of thought - I just don't agree with it. You don't belong to a particular religion without knowing it. You aren't a member of a congregation where the people who brought you in never told you that you belong.

 

Well . . . you can look at/argue indoctrination as a child, parental/societal pressure, ostracizing those that leave, etc. I do think that some religions and some societies the pressures are much more severe than just choosing a religion. It is a way of life so to go against it would be making one's self a pariah. Mormonism is an example of that. It has very severe repercussions for leaving.

 

You may know what you are in, but you may not truly know the other options. You know one "truth" but not have the ability to really make a good evaluation of such because just the thought of looking elsewhere is severely punished. And that to me is a gaslighting that can have similarities.

[Got it]

As an atheist, I do see that many parts of religious institutions are lies told to control and bilk a population. The control aspect is less now in non-theocratic countries, but the bilking remains (and because of society criticizing lies it is no where near the "sales of indulgence" period, thankfully)

 

Marriage has more to do with economics than religion. Coupling predates orthodoxy, it was assimilated as a means to make money off of the already withstanding social contract.

 

I think the closest anyone comes to giving a good criticism of the institution of marriage is Karl Marx, who insists its an off shoot of the privatization common in capitalism and feudalism economies. I would agree, but the fact is that until we have an egalitarian society legal coupling contracts are required for child rearing on this selfish planet.

 

But I wasn't arguing against the institution of marriage though that is another good debate. It was about the line of logic comparing religion, lying/gaslighting and similarity to affairs.

 

But yes I agree it has been used to control the lower classes, to get them to tow the line and pay out for the promise of an eternal future that may or may not exist. But this is really probably best for another thread, "is organized religion like a wayward spouse?"

[Athens]

So happy, you are quite defensive for someone that is so happy. I am unclear why if are in the same position as me, being harassed, that you have so much empathy for the OW in my situation. Perhaps there is more to the story and I am not understanding. Either way, I can not be shamed in to feeling badly for someone that has harmed me through their own ignorance and denial.

[So happy together]

So happy, you are quite defensive for someone that is so happy. I am unclear why if are in the same position as me, being harassed, that you have so much empathy for the OW in my situation. Perhaps there is more to the story and I am not understanding. Either way, I can not be shamed in to feeling badly for someone that has harmed me through their own ignorance and denial.

 

I do not have empathy for her, or you, or him. Each of you, and each of us in my relationship, played a role. Own it. What I don't like is when the MM/MW is forgiven and the OW/OM is treated like the devil. How many times must I say that I accept my part in his affair? I'm not angry in the least at how you treat the OW in your relationship. I am upset at the way BS's come to the OW/OM forum and rip the OW/OM to shreds with no idea of the circumstances. I think we should try to be kinder to one another.

[TaraMaiden]

BS's may be more kindly disposed towards OW/OM if they own their part in the deception, and apologise to the BS for the havoc they helped create by screwing their spouse.

 

See, the reasons BS get shirty, is because they object to what's happened, and OW/OM leave themselves open to this anger.

 

It's called 'taking the rough with the smooth.

OW/OM get the benefit of a no-strings-attached intimate sexual relationship with someone else's spouse. That's the smooth.

The rough is that you get an irate BS.

 

If they have to put up with lying cheating and betrayal, OW/OM have to put up with the BS's anger-fuelled fall-out.

[So happy together]

BS's may be more kindly disposed towards OW/OM if they own their part in the deception, and apologise to the BS for the havoc they helped create by screwing their spouse.

 

See, the reasons BS get shirty, is because they object to what's happened, and OW/OM leave themselves open to this anger.

 

It's called 'taking the rough with the smooth.

OW/OM get the benefit of a no-strings-attached intimate sexual relationship with someone else's spouse. That's the smooth.

The rough is that you get an irate BS.

 

If they have to put up with lying cheating and betrayal, OW/OM have to put up with the BS's anger-fuelled fall-out.

 

 

The OW/OM that come to this forum are not the ones who had were involved in YOUR husband's affair. Go and be terrible to HER. Not EVERYONE. I don't know how much clearer I can be.

[TaraMaiden]

My husband hasn't had an affair, and neither have I.

 

I am approaching the subject generally.

And there's nothing says I can't.....

 

But even if you or I are not directly involved with anyone here, it doesn't mean that those who are in pain, can't express it, and it doesn't mean you get to choose how they feel about being betrayed.

 

People express their anguish.

 

OW/OM have to listen to that, even if they're not connected with you, just as they have to listen to unconnected OW/OM happily describing their wonderful affairs.

[Decorative]

What I've said is not unkind. It is simply the truth. I'm sorry if it offends you. I also stated I had a difficult time being kind with the things that she's put him through. And I do understand their dynamic. He was a caretaker and a money maker.

 

I am not offended. I don't know her.

 

You just don't have the full picture- and I worry about your future.

[Decorative]

Choice is the pinnacle if what makes an affair immoral.

 

The religious person of rational age can choose to pick up their scripture and read it cover to cover, just as I did. They are free to study other religions and do a comparative study. They are not having, in this modem day of literacy, libraries and Internet, ignorance FORCED upon them. In the cases of most religious if they don't know their religion its because they are lazy and don't want to know it.

 

Absofreakinglutely.

[Decorative]

The OW/OM that come to this forum are not the ones who had were involved in YOUR husband's affair. Go and be terrible to HER. Not EVERYONE. I don't know how much clearer I can be.

 

I think you are missing the point.

 

Affairs are destructive.

 

Nobody is substituting you as a stand in for the affair partner in their own situation.

 

People have pointed out similarities and offered perspectives which you reject.

 

But you should stop feeling personally attacked- and really pay attention to what's being said. You don't see the full picture. You have idealized your married man. You are likely headed for an issue of your own- further than the affair.

 

Instead of asking for kindness- which you have gotten a lot of- which you then turn around on other people and admonish them- please try and take a step back and listen, without prejudice, if you can, to what you are being told.

 

You are coming across as a totally unempathetic human being. I can't believe that is how you want to be or see yourself.

 

You tell us to be kind- and then turn around and act and speak unkindly.

 

I wish good things for you. I hope you try and listen.

[TaraMaiden]

No, it wasn't.

You were comparing coming out as an atheist freely proudly and whatever to doing the same thing with being an OW/OM.

 

If it WAS an analogy, I'm sorry, but it wasn't a very good one at all....

 

The two situations are quite different..... and bring drastically different results.

[AnotherRound]

Well . . . you can look at/argue indoctrination as a child, parental/societal pressure, ostracizing those that leave, etc. I do think that some religions and some societies the pressures are much more severe than just choosing a religion. It is a way of life so to go against it would be making one's self a pariah. Mormonism is an example of that. It has very severe repercussions for leaving.

 

You may know what you are in, but you may not truly know the other options. You know one "truth" but not have the ability to really make a good evaluation of such because just the thought of looking elsewhere is severely punished. And that to me is a gaslighting that can have similarities.

 

This made me think of the shunning that Amish communities do when someone goes off the path... and I agree with this 100%. This is off topic, kind of (It's sort of relevant as the analogy was used) - but I consider it abuse to brainwash children, even for religious purposes - and no doubt, some that believe that is "okay" and even "right" - believe what I have done as an OW is "wrong" - it's all relevant.