Anyone Happy w your Affair?

[White Flower]

 

This makes no sense.

 

I can only speak for myself, but my analogy was about what constitutes responsible fun and what doesn't and it works perfectly.

 

 

The dog analogy, LMAOOO I don't get it at all .

 

 

Anyway lets keep in mind in this case of mycat she is a MARRIED OW. If you are a single OW, your situation is NOT the same. She is hurting her own BS, although she is an OW too...so sorry, please let's keep it in perspective and not use "we".

Most of us can govern whether we relate to an OW whether M or not.

 

Thank you.

[MissBee]

The context of Mycat's post, if I understand her correctly, is that she wants to portray OW as people who actually enjoy their A at least some of the time whereas the BWs at LS enjoy seeing them in pain so they can help one more M in their quest to save all Ms as if all Ms are good.

 

Then you came along and seemed to go off on a tangent and focus on her statement about As being fun, and that only emotionally immature people, ie., APs are selfish and immature enough to equate having fun in an A sitch with being emotionally immature. Forgive me if I'm wrong but that's the way it came off. Your post did not really seem to focus on the context with which Mycat posted, it appeared to have been taken out of context.

 

Other than that more and more mental health professionals advise people to do what makes them happy, ie., have fun. Having fun is a good thing. Hope that statement doesn't get taken out of context.

 

 

I give up. Thank you for your thoughts.

[MissBee]

Most of us can govern whether we relate to an OW whether M or not.

 

Thank you.

 

You're welcome?

 

A married OW's situation is by its nature different from a single OW, re causing hurt to a BS. This is not debatable. A married OW has a spouse at home she is betraying, a single OW does not. Whether you can relate or not was never the issue.

 

But I do not believe this will amount to anything productive, so I accept your gratitude and gracefully move on.

[eleanorrigby]

The context of Mycat's post, if I understand her correctly, is that she wants to portray OW as people who actually enjoy their A at least some of the time whereas the BWs at LS enjoy seeing them in pain so they can help one more M in their quest to save all Ms as if all Ms are good.

 

You've never noticed threads and seen known BS's in there encouraging divorce?

[So happy together]

 

This makes no sense.

 

I can only speak for myself, but my analogy was about what constitutes responsible fun and what doesn't and it works perfectly.

 

 

The dog analogy, LMAOOO I don't get it at all .

 

 

Anyway lets keep in mind in this case of mycat she is a MARRIED OW. If you are a single OW, your situation is NOT the same. She is hurting her own BS, although she is an OW too...so sorry, please let's keep it in perspective and not use "we".

 

I understood your analogy and found it overblown, overly simplistic, and naive. Sorry. That was sort of my point with the dog analogy. If you want to view it my way, it is like two puppies, (BS, OW) one treats you well, the other is a brat who makes your life unhappy. Which one are you going to want to 'pet'?

 

I think likening an affair to drinking and getting behind the wheel, showing irresponsible behavior, is ridiculous. I don't think MY behavior was irresponsible or immature. I think we were two people who needed one another, and now we're happy. I also think his ex made him miserable. Now, my boyfriend is free and has given his stbxw the ability to find someone who will make her happy instead of being stuck with someone who wants to do more than be drunk on the couch. Or, since he is allergic, now she can buy thirty cats. I don't care which.

[eleanorrigby]

I understood your analogy and found it overblown, overly simplistic, and naive. Sorry. That was sort of my point with the dog analogy. If you want to view it my way, it is like two puppies, (BS, OW) one treats you well, the other is a brat who makes your life unhappy. Which one are you going to want to 'pet'?

 

I think likening an affair to drinking and getting behind the wheel, showing irresponsible behavior, is ridiculous. I don't think MY behavior was irresponsible or immature. I think we were two people who needed one another, and now we're happy. I also think his ex made him miserable. Now, my boyfriend is free and has given his stbxw the ability to find someone who will make her happy instead of being stuck with someone who wants to do more than be drunk on the couch. Or, since he is allergic, now she can buy thirty cats. I don't care which.

 

Two puppies?

 

My distress felt quite a bit more like Miss Bees analogy involving devastation, irresponsible behavior and the life changing consequences of drunk driving.

 

It didn't feel anything like two little puppies. One mean and one nice. Cute.

[So happy together]

Perhaps. And that is valid. But I will never feel like my affair was like getting behind the wheel and causing devastation. Give me a break. Every one of the lives in my affair have changed. And for the better. Nobody seems to care that he went unloved for 15 years. Then when he finds someone, the wife is a saint? LMAO! Riiiigghhhtt.

[So happy together]

I don't think its "many" but definitely a good chunk encourage others to engage in affairs because their personal one worked for them, and they make light of the bs's and their child's pain with the flippant observation that the affair makes the aps happy and that's what REALLY matters.

 

Put those same words in a criminals mouth and you have what is perceived as flaunting:

"I may have stolen, but I got what I wanted and I'm happy, screw the victim! don't let the ("moral") police piss on your parade, go be a thief too, try to be happy like me!"

 

LMAO! Just... Omg. Lmao!!!

[eleanorrigby]

Perhaps. And that is valid. But I will never feel like my affair was like getting behind the wheel and causing devastation. Give me a break. Every one of the lives in my affair have changed. And for the better. Nobody seems to care that he went unloved for 15 years. Then when he finds someone, the wife is a saint? LMAO! Riiiigghhhtt.

 

I don't know if she's a saint, the way you describe her she sounds like a filthy, lazy disgusting drunk. I guess he's well shed of her and the rest of her family as well.

 

I still think he should have divorced the drunk instead of cheating on her first.

[Decorative]

Two puppies?

 

My distress felt quite a bit more like Miss Bees analogy involving devastation, irresponsible behavior and the life changing consequences of drunk driving.

 

It didn't feel anything like two little puppies. One mean and one nice. Cute.

 

I am going to look at puppies completely differently now. I never knew the act of petting one puppy over the other could end up with one of the puppies needing treatment for PTSD.

 

Wow.

[HonestNeurotic]

I am happy with my affair. I was happy with my last affair. Though the ending was kinda pissy, it suited me just fine for four years. In fact, it was time to end it anyway and I just was a little lazy about it.

 

Now "happy about it", doesn't mean that it's always "fun". Cuz I am definitely confused about my affair at the moment.

 

Happiness comes from within. Another person doesn't have the power to make me happy. Certainly they can disappoint or anger me, but not take my happiness away. If one is not happy by themselves, alone, then they are not going to be happy with another. They might THINK that they are, but then, when that person fails them, they'll be unhappy.

 

Responsible fun? I dunno. I guess I could be a smartass and retort with Safe Sex! - but I just don't look at having an affair as "fun". Skydiving is "fun". Is sex "fun"? Maybe it is for some people. I don't look at it in that way. Semantics are often lost in our conversational writings, so Miss Understanding rears her ugly head now and again. i.e., what I am "hearing" may not really be what you are "saying".

 

IMHO - as always.

[Decorative]

I don't know if she's a saint, the way you describe her she sounds like a filthy, lazy disgusting drunk. I guess he's well shed of her and the rest of her family as well.

 

I still think he should have divorced the drunk instead of cheating on her first.

 

Absolutely. If the story is true- the honorable action- for both the MM and the AP- would be to leave first, divorce, make the adjustment, and then begin dating.

 

#offinthecornerbutnotdrinkingdietcoke

[Sarabi]

She knows she can't compare to me and only has him because I booted his ass out.

Lol sorry but I love this !!!

Well done you (for booting his ass out)

[So happy together]

Oh the metaphors are ridiculous? Like the one where people who oppose honesty are akin to the "diet coke hoverers?" Problem is in your part scenario your team isn't dancing, they are having a sloppy drunken orgy with other people's spouses.

 

You say you never hurt anyone. And yet your posts mention how the bs and child are very hurt. But hey, that child is just a parade pisser like me, I mean who the hell is that kid to be angry at what the affair did to her family? She had to learn to liven up and not be so judgmental, YOU are happy and that's what matters!

 

Why don't you ask that girl the metaphor for the pain she feels at what you and her father did to her security, happiness, esteem and view of relationships. Or will you not believe her because you are do hell bent on believing the evil bs poisoned her? So evil! That must be why the daughter chooses to live with her,right?

 

She lives with neither parent. She is an adult. Also, I would be more concerned about what living with an alcoholic mother for twenty years did to her FAR more than what a year long affair (that she didn't know about until it was no longer an affair) did to her. I believe she is hurt if she says she is. I just think that her father, after having raised her basically on his own, deserves some happiness. And I firmly believe she will come around to that fact as well.

 

Just so we're clear, I've never had a drunken orgy, and I guarantee I've NEVER been sloppy. Sorry to disappoint. You've been out of your relationship for 8 years. You should go find a man instead of taking out your aggression here. You'd feel better.

[Saba]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Arial]I think the premise that everyone can be a winner (cheating spouses and betrayed spouses is just really naive. If the person you are with (the BS) would leave you if they knew your secret then they don’t want to be with you. The BS doesn’t get a chance to express it until they are in on the secret but the WS should be able to realise this.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Arial]The WS is not loved for who they are, only who they pretend to be. [/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Arial][sIZE=3]The BS is not loved in the way that is meaningful to them during the A because they are not respected.[/sIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Arial][sIZE=3]Happy, happy times huh?[/sIZE][/FONT]

[eleanorrigby]

She lives with neither parent. She is an adult. Also, I would be more concerned about what living with an alcoholic mother for twenty years did to her FAR more than what a year long affair (that she didn't know about until it was no longer an affair) did to her. I believe she is hurt if she says she is. I just think that her father, after having raised her basically on his own, deserves some happiness. And I firmly believe she will come around to that fact as well.

 

Just so we're clear, I've never had a drunken orgy, and I guarantee I've NEVER been sloppy. Sorry to disappoint. You've been out of your relationship for 8 years. You should go find a man instead of taking out your aggression here. You'd feel better.

 

Oh wow, now you've upped the ante. The trauma of an affair and insta-step mom is added on top of the trauma of living with a drunk for 20 years.

 

Her head may be spinning for years as she decides which parent to side with; dad who raised her and saved her from the drunk, or mom the drunk who's looking pretty pathetic right now and "how can I abandon (live my life) her now after what dad did?"

 

Granted this dynamic is one I imagine would play out anyway in a divorce, based on what you've written about the family.

 

But now, the affair added tons of nasty layers on top that everyone is going to have to deal with now.

 

He could have had a clean getaway. (or as clean as you can get with a crazy drunk). Affairs are a a lot more serious then puppies.

 

IMO, you don't tug on Supermans cape, you don't spit in the wind, and you don't go making an unstable drunk into a divorcee and a betrayed wife.

 

"Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night"

[So happy together]

I'm going to talk to you like a mother now, not a random poster on some Internet site.

 

PLEASE talk to that girl. I know you probably don't want to because you don't to hear her real thoughts, but you are not going to have a REAL good future in that family until you start acting like concerned family.

 

Its time to stop blaming the bs (because the LAST thing that girl will want to hear is judgment coming out of the woman's mouth who stabbed her mom) and apologizing to that girl for how your relationship started. Its time for you to explain to her why you chose to have an affair, account for its wrongness to her, explain your hope for the family and ask HOW you can build that family with her IF she wants it too.

 

I WISH my ex's ow could put down her ridiculous axe she has with me and start acting like a decent woman towards my children. I WISH she could apologize, atone and move this damn horse forward because she is killing it with her refusal to own up to her behavior...

 

You know, I have several children of my own, two of whom are grown, married and living on their own. I also have small children at home. I get the whole mother thing. Here's what my take is: I am more than happy to talk to her any time she'd like. Right now she is too upset to talk about it, and that is fine. She was very angry at her father for a couple of months, and is just now speaking to him. Things are starting to get back on track for them, which is fantastic in my eyes. Their relationship is an important one. As for me, when she is ready, I'm here. My boyfriend tells her often what our plans are so that she is not blind sided. And I would NEVER say anything bad about her mother to either my boyfriend OR her. Or anyone IRL, actually. That is why I am here. Because this should be a safe place for me to vent.

 

Is she a raving drunk? Yes. Did she verbally abuse my boyfriend? Yes. Does she take care of herself at all? No. I've seen proof of all of these things. And the thing is, I'm angry that my BF was treated badly. He must take his part in that. In staying as long as he did. A lot of the reason he stayed was religious. He now sees that he hasn't had a sacramental marriage for years anyway. She stayed for the paycheck. That makes me a little irritated, but I understand, since she doesn't want to do anything to care for herself. At the same time, I feel a little sorry for her. Both because she is not strong enough to care about herself, and because she had a great guy and did nothing to nurture the relationship. That is on her, and him. Nothing to do with me. He just realized how empty his life was. Was I the catalyst in his actually leaving the marriage? Probably. I'm okay with that.

 

I hope someday she gets the help she needs, and that she does it for herself. But I also hope that she leaves him alone now, lets him live his life.

 

And these are just a minute sprinkling of the things he's gone through with her. Nobody knows their relationship and just how much better off he is. So see, when you talk about abusing someone... I feel he was abused. I'm glad he's left. I want happiness for him. And do you know something else? If his happiness did not include me, I would STILL want his happiness.

[So happy together]

I think happy can do that. Be a positive role model for her since her mother isn't. It would be great to encourage her father to get her into counseling and he also needs to understand why he stayed with a alcoholic for so long. Both parents did a lot of damage to this girl, the mother being a alcoholic, the father by enabling it and not protecting her by getting her away from it and now an affair. If you are going to be with him long term, she is going to need your help.

 

As the daughter of an alcoholic, I know what kind of damage it does. It's not good.

 

I do understand this. But I do not want to push myself into her world until she wants it. I am giving her time. I want she and her father on solid ground first.

 

What bothers me more than anything is that she is drinking more and more (the daughter). I would just hate to see her turn out like her mother. My BF took her to dinner last weekend and she drank two sampler platters of beer (six, eight ounce beers on each one, and then had five martinis.

 

J wrote it off as her being upset as they were talking about the divorce. But she had a hangover already from the night before. It worries me for her.

[ComingInHot]

So happy wrote, " 8 years. You should go find a man instead of taking out your aggression here. You'd feel better."

 

Huh?!

 

So happy also wrote, " I have several children of my own, two of whom are grown,..."

 

Ohhh... now I get it.

[So happy together]

So happy wrote, " 8 years. You should go find a man instead of taking out your aggression here. You'd feel better."

 

Huh?!

 

So happy also wrote, " I have several children of my own, two of whom are grown,..."

 

Ohhh... now I get it.

 

Really? What is it that you think you get?

[AnotherRound]

You know, I have several children of my own, two of whom are grown, married and living on their own. I also have small children at home. I get the whole mother thing. Here's what my take is: I am more than happy to talk to her any time she'd like. Right now she is too upset to talk about it, and that is fine. She was very angry at her father for a couple of months, and is just now speaking to him. Things are starting to get back on track for them, which is fantastic in my eyes. Their relationship is an important one. As for me, when she is ready, I'm here. My boyfriend tells her often what our plans are so that she is not blind sided. And I would NEVER say anything bad about her mother to either my boyfriend OR her. Or anyone IRL, actually. That is why I am here. Because this should be a safe place for me to vent.

 

Is she a raving drunk? Yes. Did she verbally abuse my boyfriend? Yes. Does she take care of herself at all? No. I've seen proof of all of these things. And the thing is, I'm angry that my BF was treated badly. He must take his part in that. In staying as long as he did. A lot of the reason he stayed was religious. He now sees that he hasn't had a sacramental marriage for years anyway. She stayed for the paycheck. That makes me a little irritated, but I understand, since she doesn't want to do anything to care for herself. At the same time, I feel a little sorry for her. Both because she is not strong enough to care about herself, and because she had a great guy and did nothing to nurture the relationship. That is on her, and him. Nothing to do with me. He just realized how empty his life was. Was I the catalyst in his actually leaving the marriage? Probably. I'm okay with that.

 

I hope someday she gets the help she needs, and that she does it for herself. But I also hope that she leaves him alone now, lets him live his life.

 

And these are just a minute sprinkling of the things he's gone through with her. Nobody knows their relationship and just how much better off he is. So see, when you talk about abusing someone... I feel he was abused. I'm glad he's left. I want happiness for him. And do you know something else? If his happiness did not include me, I would STILL want his happiness.

 

I get exactly what you are saying here. ExMM often said that his wife broke their marital vows LONG before he did, and I agree with him on that one. She promised him one thing, and then did the bait and switch, and gave him nothing of what she promised him. Whatever her reasons, she withdrew from the marriage first, and it took him a lot of years of frustration and trying before he realized that he no longer needed to hold to his vows either - as the marriage was only in name for about 7 years by the time I came along.

 

A lot of people brush over the abuse that many WSs have endured, sometimes for years, and say that they should have just divorced. Again, we could get into why they didn't, there are a multitude of reasons, but at the end of the day, they HAVE been abused too. Just bc their BS didn't have an affair does not mean that they held to their vows - there are many other vows aside from forsaking all others that a married couple takes and promises to one another. I don't believe in a hierarchy of vows - once exMMs wife decided to break her vows - how he broke his were of no concern to her bc she was the one that already voided that contract - he just changed his mind and stopped fighting it and trying to fix it and joined her in seeing it as a voided contract.

 

I know not all WSs are abused, but I see a good many that have been. No, they weren't BSs - but they WERE abused in one form or another. All parties have to own their actions. I think it's childish to come back later and say, "well, even though I broke the vows first - you broke them worse!" And honestly, it only FEELS worse bc it happened to them. Some WSs are abused horridly for year after year and then when they take some control of their own happiness, by accepting that the BS doesn't want the marriage but refuses to do anything about it and is content just carrying on with their benefits and not participating, and they become a WS - the BSs are horrified. Really? What did they think was going to happen when they stopped participating in the marriage, and made that contract null and void by their own actions?

 

My exMM was not dishonest with his exW, and he told her exactly why he was going to date other people. She STILL refused to participate in the marriage. Oh, I know some will say, "oh she withdrew bc of his actions" - but that just isn't the truth here. He was present and willing for many years - she was not, and the bait and switch was just as dishonest, if not more so, than his affair. She reaped what she sowed - thankfully, she recognizes this and doesn't try to play the victim - although she did at first, she at least has some sense to see that she promised him things at the marriage that she never intended to provide or do.

 

Your bf's daughter will come around. She will eventually see, as she grows and matures, the reality of her parent's marriage. It takes time, and growing, and as she becomes more of an adult - she will be able to look at it realistically instead of through little girl eyes and emotions. Most of us do, come to the realization that our parents are ONLY people - not super human, and we can look at their relationship with a bit of objectivity as we grow older, experience our own relationships and such.

 

Nothing is damaged beyond repair in your situation, as far as I can see, other than your bf's former marriage - and honestly, I am happy for him that he was able to finally extract himself from his exW who obviously had no idea what she was saying when she took those vows all those years ago. Why should he have upheld his vows to a voided contract? Smh.

[So happy together]

You are right, you can't push yourself into it but you can encourage your bf to maybe get him and her in IC and joint counseling.

 

What she has had modeled for her, her mothers coping as being the bottle will be the same things she is likely to repeat. Also there is a genetic factor involved also.

 

She has years of damage to undo, the mother being a drunk, the father allowing her to be subjected to that and to add insult onto injury an affair.

It will be a miracle if she doesn't repeat the same. You likely are going to have a lot of drama in front of you. It's going to be very hard.

 

I know it won't be easy. But I am up for the challenge. I hope someday she'll be able to talk with me about things. I think she'll come around.

[Decorative]

I know it won't be easy. But I am up for the challenge. I hope someday she'll be able to talk with me about things. I think she'll come around.

 

She will only come around if the adults in her life step up and start protecting her. And helping her.

 

If you intend on being her father's longterm partner, you need to have a plan together to try and help her.

 

You cannot wait for her to come around.

 

On top of the regular anger she will have towards you for the affair- her laundry list is long. And time is her enemy, not her friend.

 

She needs help. Now.

[So happy together]

She will only come around if the adults in her life step up and start protecting her. And helping her.

 

If you intend on being her father's longterm partner, you need to have a plan together to try and help her.

 

You cannot wait for her to come around.

 

On top of the regular anger she will have towards you for the affair- her laundry list is long. And time is her enemy, not her friend.

 

She needs help. Now.

 

While I understand what you are saying, and mostly agree, I feel that a couple of months to adjust to her father having someone new in her life is okay before we begin pushing her into counseling. If she'd go, I think that would be great. I don't know if she would, but of course my BF will try. We do have a plan for her, would definitely not exclude her ever, and will do all that we can to make things easier and help her to be independent and not follow in her mother's footsteps. She is almost 25, so forcing her to do anything would just alienate her further.

[ComingInHot]

sohappy wrote, " Really? What is it that you think you get?"

 

It doesn't matter what I think as you found " a man" & " feel better."

 

How else am I to "take it"?

Did you mean something different than what you wrote?