Anyone Happy w your Affair?

[Journee]

I can't like these posts, they are so very sad.

 

But, I also know that this is true. We can't live other people's lives for them - they have to choose their own paths, no matter how upsetting it is to us.

 

I have a friend that has a son who just turned 21. His son has a terminal illness that he refuses to treat. His son is young, and believes himself invincible - he is not, obviously. He has treatments available that could prolong his life by 30 or 40 years -yet he refuses to do them bc they are time consuming. At the rate he is going, he will not live past 23 most likely.

 

Is it sad? Yes, heartbreakingly so. But he is an adult at 21 years old. Other than sitting on top of him and forcing him to take the treatments - what can anyone do? We have all expressed ourselves to him - his parents have begged him to do the treatments - he does them for a day or two, then stops again - and then spends weeks in the hospital close to death.

 

You just cannot force other people to do or not do anything. It is this 21 year old's life - whether any of us like it or not. These are his choices - and he has to make them himself. For me, I said my piece to him - and I leave it at that. I wish I could live his life for him for a minute, and take the damn treatments - they seem like such a simple fix to me - but I can't.

 

So, I practice radical acceptance of the things I cannot control. It's tough to do, but anything other than doing so is just a waste of time and energy - bc at the end of the day, nobody does anything that they don't WANT to do.

 

 

My mother has been going to Alanon for years. She has been adapting the Serenity prayer for her life. She knows now that there was nothing she could do to save my sister. Not one more rehab stint. Not one more intervention. Not one more "I love you".

 

What a hard lesson to learn.

[Journee]

Sorry to hear that Journee, my brother died of cirrhosis of the liver on his 35th birthday due to alcohol abuse.

 

I'm sorry WF....just so young.Too young

[AnotherRound]

No, I don't think he should have a lonely life. I think he should have divorced before dating another woman. I'm not preaching be miserable, I'm preaching AVOID bigger misery by being HONEST.

 

In an ideal world, a lot of things would work out differently than they did. Saying someone "should have" done something a certain way is hindsight - and not, imo, taking into consideration a whole lot of factors that you aren't aware of.

 

I'm sure that there have been things in your life that others could look at and say that you "should have" done x, y, or z - and they think you handled them "wrong" or incorrectly.

 

He didn't divorce before dating another woman. He had his reasons. It IS his life, not yours. They are where they are and NOTHING will change that, nothing. There is no time machine, there is only hindsight - and that does nothing to change the courses we have already chosen.

 

I see what you all are saying - that he should have "fill in the blank". It's irrelevant - what can he do now? He is doing it. He is allowing his daughter to make her own choices and her own decisions. He has said his piece to her, offered her his support - she is 25 years old. She will now choose to do what she wants. Period.

 

He was happy in his affair, and he had valid reasons for making the choices he made, regardless of what any outsiders have to say about it (judging). His life is his life, not yours - and he lives with his decisions, not you.

 

He chose happiness with his affair - good for him. He can't live the rest of his life at the mercy of his daughter, who is obviously working through her own things. We all had parents that made mistakes, and effed our life up in some way -they are human, it's only natural. Hers is no more a sob story than anyone else. We all have our hands dealt to us in life and we all are responsible for rising above our own obstacles - no matter why they are there, or who put them there (if anyone).

 

OP - I don't believe that anyone was "unhappy" in their affair - or they wouldn't have chosen it and continue to participate in it. Some people for years and years. Most people do not choose to do things that make them miserable (most...). At some point it may have become "unhappy" - but many relationships do, not just affairs. Affairs just have a different set of reasons for why they become unhappy than other relationships (circumstances keep people apart, not lack of love or desire).

[White Flower]

I never said there was a "Bitter club" nor did I say you were in it. I also stated that while I am aware of 19 Ddays I was not affected by many of them. The only one who really gets "abused" on Dday is the one being lied to. Some may say I was thrown under the bus but since he keeps yearning for me, SBW is constantly looking over her shoulder, and I'm the one calling the shots, I don't call it a bus accident. And yeah, life is pretty full for me too.

 

 

 

Like I said. I'm so happy that you're happy. 19 ddays. And, I'm glad you're life is full. We really have nothing to argue about.

Ya know, I really thought so until you brought it up again:

 

Originally Posted by White Flower

It's as if they embrace the slogan "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". Many of the rOW didn't get their man so now they relate to the BW who never fully gets her man back either. Still, that experience isn't a rounded experience which the OP of each thread in this forum is looking for.

 

You said this ^^ Back track all you'd like. I think it's clear your thoughts. I stand by what I said, you should too. In the words of countless others: Own it. Abundantly clear.

Oh I ALWAYS stand by what I say and I never backtrack. Show me where I said it about you personally! I am always careful to use words such as "as if" and "seem", etc.

 

And you just told me my thoughts were clear to you. Can you really read my mind? I think not, so please carefully read my words.

Edited April 22, 2013 by White Flower
Deletion

[So happy together]

Why are the happy OW's always the ones who seem to be the most bitter towards reconciling bw's?

 

The (cheating) men they are with are so deserving of happiness. The happiness that was so denied them because they were such all sacrificing saints during the marriage.

 

Of course nothing in the marriage was the poor poor MM/WS's fault, no it was all the horrible wife's fault. I mean, why else would he be cheating right? It couldn't be something selfish and lacking within the MM.

 

Oh wait, they are selfish and lacking if they decide to go back and work on their marriage, then they are just lying cheaters who now deserve all the blame and can't be punished enough. If the WS does come back the bs should not for one moment put any blame at all on the OW. No she should sit down and write a thank you note to the wonderfully unselfish OW for now improving the WS and their marriage.

 

It is almost like the happy ow's take it personally if any WS goes back to their bs??? I mean they actually seem more angry at families that reconcile than the former OW's. Strange.

 

Seriously also, if you don't approve of cheating and lying you would be boring at a party? LOL

 

I've never ONCE said anything like this. In fact, if you'll read back, I even said that if my BF decided his happiness was not with me, I would still want his happiness. I want him to be happy.

 

Let me just tell you what he said when I asked him why he didn't leave years ago. He was planning on leaving when his daughter was 6. He spoke to an atty. who informed him that he would get standard everything, and he travelled for work sometimes. So, he was afraid that if he left at that time, his six year old daughter would be stuck in a home with a drunken mother who didn't care for her properly. So he stayed. As I've stated before also, he was there for all of her firsts, not her mother. Even all of the very personal things that mothers should do for their daughter, my BF did. Not the stbxw. He was afraid to leave. So he stayed. Then, when she got older, he just got in a rut, and decided this was it. His life was not going to get any better. He was stuck in a marriage with someone who did not have his back. Who didn't even know who he was. He was on his own in the community, in his personal life, at work, at church. If he wanted to do anything, he went alone. She would not go. We had been friends all this time, but had carefully kept our distance. Finally, we had just had enough waiting, I guess. I think he was sick of being so lonely. I'm not saying it was ideal. I'm just saying that is what happened.

 

So, now we're here. And we are happy being part of one another's lives. I'm sorry if you can't understand.

 

But if he decided to work on the marriage, I would not hate him. I would not be bitter. I would be glad for the time I got to spend with him. My heart would ache of course, but I am just not the type. And ANY man that goes back to his BS, if that is where he wants to be, then more power to him. All I've said is that I cannot understand how a BS can forgive her H but not the OW when HE is the one that betrayed her. SO if she is willing to forgive the one that made the vow to her, she should be able to forgive the third party too. FOR YOURSELF. Because frankly, I don't care if my bf's stbxw ever forgives me. I hope his daughter and I can be friends one day, but other than that, whatever. She will have to live with her feelings. I'm sure you'll come back and reiterate all the things everyone has already said, but that is my view.

[So happy together]

Am I reading this right. You're saying she drank 12 beers and 5 martinis just during dinner? 17 drinks during the course of one meal? That sounds unbelievable to me. I've known hard core alcholic men who couldn't manage that. I think a person would be hard pressed to even drink that much water during one meal let alone alcoholic drinks. Did her father have to carry her out of the resturaunt?

 

Not quite. They were sitting at the bar... and I guess it was a little longer, I've just asked him. He said it was between about 7pm and midnight. Still, a ridiculous amount of alcohol. I hope they were watered down to oblivion. She passed out in the car on the way to her house (her dad drove her home).

[So happy together]

Lol we just might!

 

But when it comes to adultery there isn't much argument. No religion really condones it and atheists even have less rates of infidelity and divorce than their religious counterparts, so there's a pretty big consensus amongst humans on it regardless of religious affiliation or lack there of.

 

Completely fine with whatever a human being thinks in their own right. I'm not religious, so any quotes from the bible or anywhere else are laughable to me.

[White Flower]

When I went back to college I learned the importance of critical thinking in writing; so I am careful to pick and choose my words. If anyone feels something as a result of my words directly or indirectly it probably means there was a shred of truth to it otherwise there would be no response at all. My posts are only meant to shed light and not meant to offend anyone. Take what you need or move on.

[thomasb]

Wow. Are we going to argue religion now?

 

 

I realize you weren't observant enough to realize that is my tag line. I had deleted my actual post.

[thomasb]

It's there in black and white WF, you wrote it, and I'm not doubting it reflects your and others thoughts. It's not a surprise for me and it doesn't upset me. I already knew that was the common gossip among some fractions. Someone else besides yourself alluded to it previously

 

My stance has everything to do with my previous post and the reasons given there about myself as a row. It's nothing to do with "not getting the man."

 

Oh and your retort would have been more credible if you had left off the condescension.

 

 

Do you think that is possible Lady Grey?

[TheOW]

Wow y'all still bickering away on this thread lol

 

Your either happy or not ... deal with it

[Decorative]

When I went back to college I learned the importance of critical thinking in writing; so I am careful to pick and choose my words. If anyone feels something as a result of my words directly or indirectly it probably means there was a shred of truth to it otherwise there would be no response at all. My posts are only meant to shed light and not meant to offend anyone. Take what you need or move on.

 

Um.

 

Hold up.

 

I have also had critical thinking classes- as I suspect many people on here have as well.

 

And it's not critical thinking to create a classification of people based on an assumption, make comments based on it, and then when people object to the falsity, say it's because there must be truth in it.

 

People react to things that are untrue. When a person makes statements that are unsustainable, in general, they will be questioned for it. And that doesn't confer some sort of validity to the original false statement.

[WakingUp]

Cant help myself, but back to the OP

 

Is anyone happy?

[Mycatsnuggles]

LadyG - loved your post, just had to comment on it. I wonder if I will regret the A one day. Today I am just sad.

 

Sprout - honestly I am enjoying the shyt out of it. loved the one about the good puppy getting petted and the bad one shytting in you new shoes. LMAO

 

Argue away ladies - just try to be nice to each other. Remember we are all humans who make mistakes. We get knocked down alittle from time to time but then we dust ourselves off and bounce up. STRONG WOMEN. You can't be a light weight in life. You either jump in with two feet or stand back and watch life go by. So I jumped in. Its an experience that I enjoyed even while it caused pain. While I was with him it was heaven, now I sit and feel sad. Will I get those feelings of heaven again? Did I mean something to him? Does it really matter if I did? After all he was never going to be mine. Why do I care but I think my OM is looking for a new woman.

 

Today I wonder how much being with him may have contributed to my sense of not loving H. Can you rebound from that. I went to the affair because sex wasnt satisfying with H, with OM it was WHY WHY WHY???

 

I keep asking myself why cant sex with my H be satisfying!!! Its not like he doesn't try. Someone explain this!!

[Mycatsnuggles]

So Happy - I hope its an exageration about 5 martini's. If not, she is a full blown alcoholic. 3 martini's would put me in front of the porcelin gxd. If she is until she recognizes she has a problem there really is no one that can help. Her mother should talk to her. They could bond over their pain. I would ask her dad to suggest to the mom to talk with her. I think your right to stay out of it at this point. - best of luck

[Mycatsnuggles]

H uses vulgar words, he thinks its sexy. I have asked him NUMEROUS times to not do this. "I want some p" does not turn me on, it has completely the opposite effect. Yet he continues. Says its because he is so comfortable with me, I should find it attractive. BUT I DON'T.

 

OM would write beautiufl love notes and whisper in my ear alluding to sex but never getting nasty. Its just so different.

 

I saw a movie this week the guy said he gets women because he tries to please them he just follows her lead and the end result is he gets tremendous pleasure. Women really are simple, if you follow are bodies responses its pretty obvious what we do and do not like. I don't want to be like a director shouting commands but the directions are all there if he were to follow.

 

This is what OM did for me. He watched my reactions and followed. He would never jump ahead to the finish line before me. H just wants to race to the end and I am left in the dust.

[So happy together]

I realize you weren't observant enough to realize that is my tag line. I had deleted my actual post.

 

You are correct. I didn't realize it was your tag line. My apologies. But the dig about not being observant was priceless. I was tired. Have a good day.

[Mycatsnuggles]

AS - thats the heart of it H is a selfish lover and OM was very unselfish. Om got off on pleasing me. Total romantic. H thinks flowers are all the romance a woman needs then drop trow and lets go. I don't know how to comprimise with him. I usually end up just meeting his needs and I go to sleep frustrated. Why I sought the affair, because I was unsubconsiously looking for one. I know this. When sex styles are so different do you just give up? IDK. if we could have a better sex life our whole life would be better. I asked him to go to a MC to discuss our sex differences. - not gonna happen. "we can fix it ourselves" bought me a dildo???WTF He definitely does not listen to me. :(:(

[WhoreyBull]

I agree you need to jump into life, mycatsnuggles... you don't need to jump into someone else's relationship or bring someone else into yours.

No one does. No one needs that.

Really I cannot see how one can justify jumping into a bad situation. A recovered addict is probably a better person for having gone through the hardship of quitting drugs, but is that better than not having "jumped into" life and done the meth in the first place?

Of course they made a mistake, everyone does. But the thing about mistakes is that they should be pointed out and learned from. They should also be called what they are, mistakes. It might have been a learning experience, but it was wrong, and it was a mistake.

A mistake you choose to make is different from an accident or mistake of ignorance.

Edited April 22, 2013 by WhoreyBull

[MissBee]

We set the rules in the beginning and my affair works for me. I would love more time with him, there never seems to be enough but besides that were perfect together.

 

We are both married

 

Both plan on staying married

 

There have never been false promises

 

We've been honest about our home relationships (no w of H bashing)

 

He's my friend and lover for more then 2 years (He and I both would be content to have this continue for many many more years as it is)

 

But I'm giving him up because society says what we have is wrong? I just wonder why should I? If we are both happy with what we have and are discreet why do I have to let this man go. Its sappy I know but he feels like my soul mate. I feel content in his presence and truly loved. I don't want to lose either of my friends my H or my other man. Very Selfish I know.

 

Week 3 LC (a few texts only, had one yesterday and couldn't believe the way the happiness flooded my soul. Just knowing he was thinking of me).

 

 

To go back to the original post.

 

There was no actual question, except for the title of the thread. But Mycat, if you are happy in your A, then you're happy. I did disagree about your notion of society being the one to make this a bad thing, as I don't see it as societal. You are free at any time to change the terms of your marriage and be honest about that with your husband and allow the chips to fall where they may. I also took issue with the idea of fun, as it seemed a bit flippant to me, esp if you're married and in an A. It makes more sense coming from a single OW than a married one IMO, as a single OW can always say she isn't betraying anyone, but a married OW definitely is.

 

In my A I was certainly happy, in a shallow sense of the word, and certainly had fun, but as I said, it wasn't too fun anymore when I became emotionally invested and I was never at peace and content, which is more long-lasting than the feeling of happiness, which comes and goes. From my experience, lots of things are fun and enjoyable, even if they are careless or dangerous. Yea I do think being married and having an affair and saying it's fun seems like a careless thing to do. Most OW get on here talking about "casual", "just sex", "not expecting him to leave" and some version of the idea that it was all fun and games....and then it wasn't . Even many of the OW who are now married or are longterm OW said theirs also started off as sex/fun. This is quite common, but for most though, esp single OW, the fun and sex turn into love and a desire for more and many then become increasingly unhappy. Putting your heart on the line is always a dangerous game and putting it on the line in an A turns that up even more.

 

Admittedly, I cannot relate to seeking out a relationship forum just to be happy. I can't. I sought LS after a breakup. Now that I am already a member, I realize there are other sections and it's a fun online community, and so now, I may share happy news here because I already participate here, but it still stands that when my boyfriend and I got together and were dating and having a grand time, I wasn't googling about love websites to just talk about it. It was only when it went south that I even discovered LS. I think for many people it is the same. However, I do get that As have complications that aren't normal and that many cannot just chit chat with friends about it, so may be relatively happy but still want to talk. I get it. I think closed OW boards will be super helpful with that as there is a limited chance that any and everyone who may or may not be sympathetic will throw in their 2 cents. But as LS is...it's pretty much standing in a booth on a sidewalk with a sign saying you're the OW and want some opinions and having passersby from all walks of life, come up to you and tell you what they think.

 

Re: not all OW are tragic and waiting for MM to leave. Definitely agree...and I think many of them are probably also not on LS asking for thoughts and opinions. I have BTDT and don't recommend it and mostly stick to helping out those who are struggling and also participate on any threads I feel I can speak to/relate to/have thoughts about. Even though I disagreed with some of what you said, I harbor no ill-will neither have I ever tried to tell you to stop. I have never once told LFH to stop or anyone else for that matter who says they are happy. When my own real life friend was in her years long A, I was not bubbling up with my bitterness because I "didn't get the man" . My exAP is no longer in his relationship, we're friends, we even tried to make it work when he became single, but wrong time and wrong place and it's fine. I just don't think it's meant to be and am not somehow festering over it ..so have to put that out there for those who may believe ALL former OW who don't recommend As are somehow honorary members of the "Bitter BS Brigade" or whatever other nonsense.

 

I find it...odd...that some (what is the term: unapologetic?) OW must constantly "not apologize" over and over even when no one has asked them to and no one is advising them on their lives...and I don't know why. The thread will be about someone else who is clearly struggling, yet they come in and somehow make it about them and their unapologetic happiness, lol...I don't get it. If you are happy, be happy, but some people are not, and your advice (if it's simply to just talk about yourself and how happy you are) may be totally useless to someone who is currently trying to make sense of things. If everything they're saying "wasn't your experience"...then maybe someone who did experience similar things and feelings to these OW can be of more help, as maybe their situation is closer to that than yours.

Edited April 22, 2013 by MissBee

[So happy together]

please forgive me if I overstep my bounds in the advice I'm giving here...

 

it sounds like you are in a rather untenable situation...and that's mot going to change without some major realization on your husband's part...

 

a couple of questions...

 

have you told him just how bad things are for you this way? how lonely you've felt? that you've reached your breaking point? that if change doesn't happen there will some dire consequences? ( it seems that you don't want to tell him about your affair, and while I do really believe that honesty is best, it's your life and you have to live it)...even if you don't tel him about the affair, he really does need to know just how bad it's gotten

 

let's assume that all of a sudden, he became the most wonderful lover in the world...do you feel like that would make things better, or are there other issues and resentments that have built up? If you feel that way, then maybe coming clean to him isn't that bad of an idea...it may be the incentive he needs to make some changes, or, if tings end, then was there enough to keep you two together in the first place? I don't know the answer to that...

 

if you do decide to stay with him and maintain the status quo, do you think that you would have another affair at some point down the road? If so, even though your affair brought some happiness into your life, was it worth it? Would it be worth it again?

 

Can you really see yourself living the rest of your life like this? If not, then it's make it or break it time...what do you think you need to do?

 

For me, these are the questions I would be asking myself as well. Good post.

[William]

Despite a few valiant attempts to remain on-topic, looking at all the deleted postings and the content of the last few pages of remaining ones, it's time to put this discussion to bed.