Responsible for our own happiness...

[Silly_Girl]

I'm being a bit cheeky here, playing devil's advocate, but I'm intrigued to hear posters' views on something.

 

I believe we are all responsible for our own happiness. When we are happy we are the best 'us' we can be to those we care about and the world at large. I spent years putting others first, and have learnt great lessons.

 

We all want to be happy.

 

I was reading (in several threads today) an AP saying how happy they were, and someone piped up that they should, in turn, give their spouse the same chance of happiness by owning up to the affair and allowing their spouse to seek similar happiness in an EMR.

 

But... who's to say the spouse ISN'T happy enough? In principle, I mean. And if they *are* happy, why upset the apple cart?

 

If they aren't happy, aren't they as free as the WS to meet another person romantically, or to make other changes in their life that mean they CAN be happy? Should they be relying on their spouse to provide 'the happiness'?

 

My personal belief? I'm anti-deceit, without a shadow of a doubt, but I do wonder about the validity of the 'allow your spouse to be happy by telling them of the affair' statement I have seen so many times.

 

Discussion welcome

[dubliner]

I dont believe what is meant is what you conclude to be meant.

It is not a matter of providing the spouse with happiness, but rather, providing the spouse with the truth of their reality so that they can decide if they are truly happy.

Of course they may be happy in their fictional life, but that is not true happiness whether provided by the Ws or not.

[Poppy fields]

I think the allow your spouse to be happy statement is said tongue in cheek. I don't believe people making that statement truly believe the person is going to tell their partner, nor would the partner jump for joy at the new opportunity if presented to them.

[Silly_Girl]

I think the allow your spouse to be happy statement is said tongue in cheek. I don't believe people making that statement truly believe the person is going to tell their partner, nor would the partner jump for joy at the new opportunity if presented to them.

 

Appreciate your point but I am certain it is said most sincerely, and with good intention.

[GorillaTheater]

I think that, examples of elderly ladies aside, most of us want truth in our lives. If what we believe is actually an illusion, and the truth is in fact pretty f*cking ugly, give us an opportunity to find genuine happiness.

 

Truth doesn't seem like an overly-burdensome thing to ask for.

[Silly_Girl]

I dont believe what is meant is what you conclude to be meant.

It is not a matter of providing the spouse with happiness, but rather, providing the spouse with the truth of their reality so that they can decide if they are truly happy.

Of course they may be happy in their fictional life, but that is not true happiness whether provided by the Ws or not.

 

But happy is happy, no? If I had a fabulous dinner and later found out it was not beef, but horse, does the knowledge mean it did not taste as great at the time?

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but someone I love maintains that if her H cheated, but gave her no reason to suspect, i.e. she felt loved and fulfilled by the relationship, she would not want him to tell her and would not want me to tell her.

 

I struggled for a long time to get my head around that, she has given it more thought than I and is adamant, and happy with her choice.

[eleanorrigby]

Be responsible for your happiness, but don't get it at my expense.

 

If your ultimate happiness has to come from stabbing me in the back, or keeping me around for finances, housekeeping and or childcare, or because you love me but love her too, then I'd like a say (preferably before you engage in creating your happiness) in whether I want to be a part of it.

 

It makes me think of a man juggling balls, and I'm one of the balls and I'm required to keep in my spot and not disrupt things so he can continue juggling successfully and feeling happy about himself.

[angie2443]

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but someone I love maintains that if her H cheated, but gave her no reason to suspect, i.e. she felt loved and fulfilled by the relationship, she would not want him to tell her and would not want me to tell her.

 

.

 

I think that's a cute idea and all, but the reality is, that when someone cheats, they have to take away from their first relationships to give to the second. Only a really good actor/actress could carry on a second, secret relationship and still give to the spouse what was given before the affair.

[Silly_Girl]

I also do not advocate staying and lying to the spouse thereby limiting their choices.

 

Appreciate your reply. And there's more in it I want to comment on, but for now...

 

You are a poster who has said what I quoted in my OP about telling the BS.

 

Are your choices being limited? Your choice is to adhere to your marriage vows, his is not the same choice. You are free to disregard them also, or to do something entirely different. Are you *really* controlled by your spouse in that way? He didn't wait for your permission but you would wait for his?

 

I get, totally, there are other aspects at play... Pride and being lied to and whatnot. But if you wanted to cheat, you could have. Were you happy enough whilst he wasn't? You didn't cheat, did you want to?

[dubliner]

But happy is happy, no? If I had a fabulous dinner and later found out it was not beef, but horse, does the knowledge mean it did not taste as great at the time?

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but someone I love maintains that if her H cheated, but gave her no reason to suspect, i.e. she felt loved and fulfilled by the relationship, she would not want him to tell her and would not want me to tell her.

 

I struggled for a long time to get my head around that, she has given it more thought than I and is adamant, and happy with her choice.

 

Ah, but if you discovered the chef had not only lied to you about the meal, but despite telling you he had a four star rating and you would recieve the best treatment he let another customer spit on your horse/beef and risked your health... sure thats still a fake happiness you want?

 

I would suggest anyone with the mindset of your friend, who would be 'happy' being disrespected as long as she were unaware either cannot comprehend the deep pain of betrayl and humiliation on discovering you have a WS or has issues that prevent them from seing themselves as a person of value, deserving of respect.

[Silly_Girl]

I think that's a cute idea and all, but the reality is, that when someone cheats, they have to take away from their first relationships to give to the second. Only a really good actor/actress could carry on a second, secret relationship and still give to the spouse what was given before the affair.

 

I think that's such a variable though. We read that many BSs had no idea at all, so it happens and is not uncommon. And I think workplace scenarios are the most likely to be carried out with minimal impact to the time available to invest in the marriage.

[Esoteric Elf]

We all want to be happy.

I get what you mean, but for me, happiness is not something I want; rather, contentment is what I strive for. Perhaps it was the lack of happiness early on in life or the not wanting such a feeling to leave. I rarely get a feeling of "happiness" as it were. It seems that when everyone wants "happiness", someone's toes are going to get stepped on inevitably. By contentedness, people go by the saying "live and let live" more.

[Silly_Girl]

 

I would suggest anyone with the mindset of your friend, who would be 'happy' being disrespected as long as she were unaware either cannot comprehend the deep pain of betrayl and humiliation on discovering you have a WS or has issues that prevent them from seing themselves as a person of value, deserving of respect.

 

She definitely understands the impact of betrayal. She also believes that if she can continue the relationship and feel as loved and appreciated as she does now then the OW is nothing serious to worry about, and can therefore be disregarded. To put it simply, I suppose she still 'wins' in that situation, from her point of view.

[Spark1111]

I hate deceit too SG, and the main reason is in many an affair sitch, the truth is purposely withheld from the BS as a means of control.

 

The MM does NOT want his wife having the same freedoms he is enjoying in developing feelings for another.

 

He'd freak out, plain and simple, if his wife started dating and screwing others and he relies on the empathy generated by his lies to his OW to keep her from spilling the beans too.

 

Sad, no? How he tries to control the options of two women through lying to keep both stuck in the roles he wants the to stay in to complete his happiness and his happiness alone.

 

it is also extremely condescending and controlling for one person to decide what makes another happy by withholding information regarding a affair.

 

This forum is filled with wives having found out and simply not giving a damn as long as it is not rubbed in their noses. perhaps in those cases, where he sticks his genitals is not a source of unhappiness for those BS. They could not care less.

 

For others, that info would make a BS extremely unhappy and she would take measures to leave or find a new partner to make her happy.

[eleanorrigby]

 

The MM does NOT want his wife having the same freedoms he is enjoying in developing feelings for another.

 

He'd freak out, plain and simple, if his wife started dating and screwing others and he relies on the empathy generated by his lies to his OW to keep her from spilling the beans too.

 

 

This was and is very true in my situation.

[Spark1111]

Mine actually actively hopes she would meet someone else, fall in love and be happy.

 

My H actually told his OW the same thing. he wouldn't have been such a bad guy then, right? Because I would have been doing the same thing he was.

 

But that was only a recurrent conversation until DDay, when I threw him out. Then he started making excuses to leave her and he started stalking me.

 

interesting, no?

 

it sounded good until the reality of it hit home. Me with another man, his replacement? was the LAST thing he really wanted.

 

he wanted us both. That's why he kept it secret.

[eleanorrigby]

But happy is happy, no? If I had a fabulous dinner and later found out it was not beef, but horse, does the knowledge mean it did not taste as great at the time?

 

I'm not disagreeing with you but someone I love maintains that if her H cheated, but gave her no reason to suspect, i.e. she felt loved and fulfilled by the relationship, she would not want him to tell her and would not want me to tell her.

 

I struggled for a long time to get my head around that, she has given it more thought than I and is adamant, and happy with her choice.

 

I don't have a problem with someone being OK with an open marriage, but I think they are stabbing themselves in the foot going about it the way that your friend is doing it.

 

She has requirements that need to be maintained for this to be successful, utter discretion, no hint of an OW in her life and no confessions.

 

Her husband needs to know that he's free to have affairs but has to pick the "right kind" of OW (best situation IMO, she's a pro and good at the girlfriend experience, second best, an experienced OW that doesn't want or expect him to leave). He also needs to know that he can't talk about it with others.

They also need to discuss what happens if there is a pregnancy, or the kids find out, or whatever.

 

There are a million things she needs to talk to him about if she wants to open the marriage, including whether she's going to exercise her options as well.

 

I can't get behind people that "kinda, sorta" talk about these things. Or people that start acting upon things someone may have said once or twice years ago. Or an idea they have about what their spouse might think.

 

To me,open marriages look like a ton of work to maintain and it appears even harder when all the parameters are not hashed out in advance.

[Silly_Girl]

I get what you mean, but for me, happiness is not something I want; rather, contentment is what I strive for. Perhaps it was the lack of happiness early on in life or the not wanting such a feeling to leave. I rarely get a feeling of "happiness" as it were. It seems that when everyone wants "happiness", someone's toes are going to get stepped on inevitably. By contentedness, people go by the saying "live and let live" more.

 

I feel happy often and I feel lucky often, and not at anyone's expense, I don't really identify with your viewpoint here.

[Silly_Girl]

I don't have a problem with someone being OK with an open marriage, but I think they are stabbing themselves in the foot going about it the way that your friend is doing it.

 

She has requirements that need to be maintained for this to be successful, utter discretion, no hint of an OW in her life and no confessions.

 

Her husband needs to know that he's free to have affairs but has to pick the "right kind" of OW (best situation IMO, she's a pro and good at the girlfriend experience, second best, an experienced OW that doesn't want or expect him to leave). He also needs to know that he can't talk about it with others.

They also need to discuss what happens if there is a pregnancy, or the kids find out, or whatever.

 

There are a million things she needs to talk to him about if she wants to open the marriage, including whether she's going to exercise her options as well.

 

I can't get behind people that "kinda, sorta" talk about these things. Or people that start acting upon things someone may have said once or twice years ago. Or an idea they have about what their spouse might think.

 

To me,open marriages look like a ton of work to maintain and it appears even harder when all the parameters are not hashed out in advance.

 

She doesn't want to 'open the marriage'. I've messed up if I've conveyed that, sorry.

[Silly_Girl]

I hate deceit too SG, and the main reason is in many an affair sitch, the truth is purposely withheld from the BS as a means of control.

 

The MM does NOT want his wife having the same freedoms he is enjoying in developing feelings for another.

 

He'd freak out, plain and simple, if his wife started dating and screwing others and he relies on the empathy generated by his lies to his OW to keep her from spilling the beans too.

 

This isn't something I've come across, but now you mention it I have heard it discussed many times here.

 

I bet my cheating ex would have freaked if I'd been reacquainted with old school boyfriends also, though.

 

Sad, no? How he tries to control the options of two women through lying to keep both stuck in the roles he wants the to stay in to complete his happiness and his happiness alone.

 

Thinking about the topic, and who is responsible for whose happiness, is he/she really in the wrong for prioritising their happiness? Should we put our spouse above ourselves?

 

I personally would find it unfair, the scenario you give, but I am still thinking...

[Silly_Girl]

Certainly on equal footing.

 

I used to think put them first. Then I thought equal. And now I believe I should just pip everyone else to the post when considering happiness. By a whisker.

 

I've thought long and hard and explored it a lot in counselling. Bear in mind though that I was a martyr and a fixer so this change in approach might just take me to the default held by the majority.

[AnotherRound]

This times a million!

 

This is the deep down issue with co-dependency - that people expect others to MAKE them happy. It's impossible. You choose happiness or you choose unhappiness - no matter what the circumstances.

 

When my Grandfather died recently - was I happy with that? No - but I chose to be happy in my life regardless. His death doesn't negate EVERYTHING else in my life - it's one small thing in my life - one small sadness (okay, big sadness, but I don't let it overtake everything else!) - one part of the millions of experiences that I have had. It does not - MAKE me sad forever more and in everything else.

 

No different than my exH. When he chose to have an affair - I wasn't "happy" about it - but I chose to be happy in my life. I grieved, went through the process - and was happy. Was it fair? No - but jesus - who thinks life is fair? So what that it was unfair? So what that he chose something that hurt me - did he do it intentionally to hurt me? Who cares? It is what he chose - and we all had to live it and we did - I chose to live happily.

 

Sometimes, people get hung up on "but it's not fair!" and they can't move past that to choose happiness. I get it - I get why they get stuck in that - sometimes life throws a doozy at you that is really freakin' unfair. Sometimes, the people we love do that to us - and yeah, it's unfair. But just because something was unfair to one person does not make it wrong for everyone else.

 

The only person I would put before my own happiness are helpless loved ones - the elderly, children, etc. A perfectly able companion who has the same resources I have - their happiness is their own to claim, not mine to give them at my own expense. I MIGHT do that for someone I loved tremendously - but I can't see how anyone could expect that from someone else.

 

You choose the life you life. If you live an unhappy life, it is because you are choosing it - every single day, you are choosing it. Whether some people want to admit that is irrelevant - it's the truth. Life can be mean, it can be unfair -and we are always reading stories about people from the most horrendous circumstances still smiling, still happy - why? Because they choose that. Some people lay down and die when things get tough - others find the good and move on. Some choose to wallow in the unfairness of it all - others accept that they don't control other people and can't force other people to do what they THINK they should have done and move on.

 

You either stagnate or you propel forward. You can do it happily, or not.

[Silly_Girl]

 

As for the idea that " ignorance is bliss" ...sorry, but I think that is rather silly...

 

 

It's not for me but I can't dismiss it as silly, it seems to be successful for many people, and it's certain a robust opinion and I can see the sense in it.

[Decorative]

I'm being a bit cheeky here, playing devil's advocate, but I'm intrigued to hear posters' views on something.

 

I believe we are all responsible for our own happiness. When we are happy we are the best 'us' we can be to those we care about and the world at large. I spent years putting others first, and have learnt great lessons.

 

We all want to be happy.

 

I was reading (in several threads today) an AP saying how happy they were, and someone piped up that they should, in turn, give their spouse the same chance of happiness by owning up to the affair and allowing their spouse to seek similar happiness in an EMR.

 

But... who's to say the spouse ISN'T happy enough? In principle, I mean. And if they *are* happy, why upset the apple cart?

 

If they aren't happy, aren't they as free as the WS to meet another person romantically, or to make other changes in their life that mean they CAN be happy? Should they be relying on their spouse to provide 'the happiness'?

 

My personal belief? I'm anti-deceit, without a shadow of a doubt, but I do wonder about the validity of the 'allow your spouse to be happy by telling them of the affair' statement I have seen so many times.

 

Discussion welcome

 

But the spouse would also have to be a cheater to be "as free as the WS to meet another person".

 

And a lot of people aren't going to ever take that route.

 

The truth always wins. It should.

[AnotherRound]

But the spouse would also have to be a cheater to be "as free as the WS to meet another person".

 

And a lot of people aren't going to ever take that route.

 

The truth always wins. It should.

 

If it "should" win, then why doesn't it? There are reasons it doesn't win - and it's not "bad people don't let it". BSs are just as free as their WSs to leave the marriage - why do they need to know something to make a decision? If their marriage is working for them - why would they want to leave? Bc it isn't working for their spouse? Isn't that why so many people try to reconcile after a Dday anyway - that they still try to make it work when it wasn't working anyways?

 

What difference does it make that the spouse had an affair? Why do some people need to be aware of another person's choices to make their OWN decisions?

 

I get it - if the spouse is completely blindsided - but honestly, how often does that happen? That someone is cheated on and TRULY, in their heart of hearts, believes that their marriage was all unicorns and rainbows? I didn't - I KNEW my marriage was effed up. I was surprised he cheated - but not really, lol. I mean, I wish he had taken a different route - but he chose what he chose. I "should have" left before the affair - when I was unhappy and clinging to a dead marriage that was NEVER going to work - but I didn't. I chose to stay and it escalated. I shouldn't have "needed" his decision to make my own - hindsight.

 

And now, I don't wait for the other person's decisions to make my own. I choose on my own - I don't just react in life, I act. I learned from my previous marriage - as it made me realize that my decisions "should not" be contingent upon someone else's decisions and just reacting to them.