Hey, guys! Want to see a REAL woman???

[USMCHokie]

Expand on this. Exactly what do you mean?

 

Your example dialogue asserts that the average man does not want the average woman. You will get no objection from me on that point. I believe that in general, we all strive for the "best" we can get and scale down our expectations when we are unable to attract what we are initially attracted to. Our standards of attraction evolve as we become more attracted to what we can actually attract, i.e., you learn to love what you can get.

 

Now what your dialogue does not address is whether average women don't also feel the same way about men. If the average woman also does not want the average man, then why would the average woman be discouraged that the average man does not want the average woman? It would be moot, since the average woman wants the above average man.

[tbf]

Your example dialogue asserts that the average man does not want the average woman. You will get no objection from me on that point. I believe that in general, we all strive for the "best" we can get and scale down our expectations when we are unable to attract what we are initially attracted to. Our standards of attraction evolve as we become more attracted to what we can actually attract, i.e., you learn to love what you can get.

At least you're honest about that, where most of these guys are blatantly being dishonest about their "standards".

 

For emphasis, a few Hollywood hotties without makeup. Bear in mind these women are considered the top 10% of women. Want to bet that most of these guys would consider these women average to below average, if they saw them walking down the street?

 

Kirsten Stewart without makeup.

 

Scarlett Johansson without makeup.

 

Milla Jovovich without makeup.

 

Rachel Bilson without makeup.

 

Now what your dialogue does not address is whether average women don't also feel the same way about men. If the average woman also does not want the average man, then why would the average woman be discouraged that the average man does not want the average woman? It would be moot, since the average woman wants the above average man.

I'd say average women are fine with average men.

[tbf]

Have a few more top 10% women (all Victoria Secret models), while you're at it:

 

Adriana Lima without makeup, hair funky just before a VS show.

 

Bar Refaeli without makeup.

 

Alessandra Ambrosio without makeup.

 

Marisa Miller without makeup.

 

What this means is that if you consider these women to be average but you'd date her, you're effectively saying that you'd only date top ten percentile women.

[USMCHokie]

For emphasis, a few Hollywood hotties without makeup. Bear in mind these women are considered the top 10% of women. Want to bet that most of these guys would consider these women average to below average, if they saw them walking down the street?

 

I would bet on your side that most guys would consider them average and likely not give them much of a second look.

 

 

Kirsten Stewart without makeup.

 

:love:

 

 

I'd say average women are fine with average men.

 

At what point in their lives...? Like I said before, we all have a diminishing scale of what we are "fine" with. You ask a 20 year old girl what kind of guy she wants to date versus a 30 year old girl what kind of guy she wants to date. Based on experience and evolution in personality, the answers will likely be different.

 

And if you assume for a second that most men want younger women, i.e., the typical 20 year old girl, then you can see how the average man would believe that the average woman (i.e., the average 20 year old woman) wouldn't be interested in them.

[tbf]

I would bet on your side that most guys would consider them average and likely not give them much of a second look.

What does "my side" mean?

 

:love:

So this means you'd date a top 10% woman, not an average woman.

 

At what point in their lives...? Like I said before, we all have a diminishing scale of what we are "fine" with. You ask a 20 year old girl what kind of guy she wants to date versus a 30 year old girl what kind of guy she wants to date. Based on experience and evolution in personality, the answers will likely be different.

That's because women evolve over time. A 20 year old girl isn't looking for anything serious, much like a 20 year old guy is the same. They can't even legally drink or vote in the U.S.

 

And if you assume for a second that most men want younger women, i.e., the typical 20 year old girl, then you can see how the average man would believe that the average woman (i.e., the average 20 year old woman) wouldn't be interested in them.

What does this tell you? Men are more visual, hence more superficially focused when it comes to sexual arousal. That's a given and proven in multiple studies.

 

This changes nothing about the premise of my post. That these guys are in denial, believing themselves wanting average women when they actually want top ten percentile women. Unfortunately, they're not top ten percentile men.

[USMCHokie]

What does "my side" mean?

 

I inferred from the way you worded your bet offer that you believe the average guy would consider Kristen Stewart, et. al., average looking without making. I would not bet against that, so I'd bet on "your side."

 

So this means you'd date a top 10% woman, not an average woman.

 

No, it means I'd date a top 10% woman. That has no bearing on whether I'd date an average woman.

 

That's because women evolve over time. A 20 year old girl isn't looking for anything serious, much like a 20 year old guy is the same. They can't even legally drink or vote in the U.S.

 

Yet lots women in their late teens and and early 20's are getting married and starting families every day...

 

Do you make the bolded statement above because you weren't looking for anything serious when you were 20...?

 

What does this tell you? Men are more visual, hence more superficially focused when it comes to sexual arousal. That's a given and proven in multiple studies.

 

I will never ever argue that. Men ARE more visual. They always have been and they always will be.

 

This changes nothing about the premise of my post. That these guys are in denial, believing themselves wanting average women when they actually want top ten percentile women. Unfortunately, they're not top ten percentile men.

 

And this changes nothing about my corollary to your post. Men and women want the best they can get; the proverbial top 10 percentile. However, as they age and gain experience, they realize that they are indeed not in the top ten percentile of their gender and must adjust their expectations accordingly.

 

So these men will eventually learn that they need to adjust their expectations and remain forever alone. We see plenty of examples of that on LS.

[tbf]

No, it means I'd date a top 10% woman. That has no bearing on whether I'd date an average woman.

Would you date the woman in the opening post? She's average to slightly above.

 

Yet lots women in their late teens and and early 20's are getting married and starting families every day...

 

Do you make the bolded statement above because you weren't looking for anything serious when you were 20...?

Don't make this personal. The national average for first time marriages in the U.S. is 26.9 years old for women. So you'd be inaccurate if you're presuming that the average teen to 20 year old girl is looking for marriage.

 

So these men will eventually learn that they need to adjust their expectations and remain forever alone. We see plenty of examples of that on LS.

That's exactly my point except that some of these guys won't even admit to wanting a top ten percentile woman. They consider these women to be "average".

[USMCHokie]

Would you date the woman in the opening post? She's average to slightly above.

 

No. But to presume that my assessment of a single member of a population suggests that I would assess all members of that population similarly is fallacy.

 

There are going to be average women we like and average women we don't like.

 

The national average for first time marriages in the U.S. is 26.9 years old for women. So you'd be inaccurate if you're presuming that the average teen to 20 year old girl is looking for marriage.

 

It would be equally inaccurate to presume that the average teen to 20 year old girl is not looking for something serious (including serious relationships with the legal title of marriage).

 

That's exactly my point except that some of these guys won't even admit to wanting a top ten percentile woman. They consider these women to be "average".

 

That's the problem with the politically correct atmosphere we live in. People are afraid to say things like, "I like hot wimmenz," because they are socially ostracized as "shallow" and "superficial." Instead, they are groomed to say things like, "oh, I just want an 'average' woman"...

[xxoo]

Most people are in relationships (at least some of the time). Most people are average. Most people are in relationships with average people.

 

I'd say that most men and women are fine with an average partner (although the person won't be average to their partner).

 

For people who struggle with finding a partner, feeling attracted to an average partner may be part of the issue. That seems especially likely with a combo of struggling to find a partner AND harshly critiquing average looking women or men on the internet.

[USMCHokie]

Most people are in relationships (at least some of the time). Most people are average. Most people are in relationships with average people.

 

I'd say that most men and women are fine withan average partner (although the person won't be average to their partner).

 

For people who struggle with finding a partner, feeling attracted to an average partner may be part of the issue. That seems especially likely with a combo of struggling to find a partner AND harshly critiquing average looking women or men on the internet.

 

You are right. But each person takes a different amount of time to become "fine with" someone that isn't in their "top 10%." Some people won't stop until they attain the top 10%, even if they end up alone. Others forever settle for average because they know they have to. Others eventually learn that they do love average, but it takes getting over that mental and emotional hurdle.

[Emilia]

For people who struggle with finding a partner, feeling attracted to an average partner may be part of the issue. That seems especially likely with a combo of struggling to find a partner AND harshly critiquing average looking women or men on the internet.

 

That's probably fair observation and it's a trade off. I suppose in my case being fine with my choice is not tempting enough to stop looking for my definition of the 'top X%'.

[xxoo]

You are right. But each person takes a different amount of time to become "fine with" someone that isn't in their "top 10%." Some people won't stop until they attain the top 10%, even if they end up alone. Others forever settle for average because they know they have to. Others eventually learn that they do love average, but it takes getting over that mental and emotional hurdle.

 

If someone wants to wait it out for top 10% or be alone, that's fine....but be honest about it. Don't claim to be attracted to average women and down on your luck (not talking about you, hokie, just in general).

 

I do think the singles underestimate how attracted people in relationships are to their average partners. You have no idea if they settled, or if they fell wildly and blindly in love. When in love, you stop looking, because no one else will do!

[tbf]

No. But to presume that my assessment of a single member of a population suggests that I would assess all members of that population similarly is fallacy.

 

There are going to be average women we like and average women we don't like.

Then post a pic of an average woman you'd date.

 

It would be equally inaccurate to presume that the average teen to 20 year old girl is not looking for something serious (including serious relationships with the legal title of marriage).

This isn't the perspective of what you initially posted and no amount of twisting will change that. Just admit you were wrong.

 

Now, to respond to this new perspective, I'm going back to my sorority days. Within my sorority, there weren't any MRS degree seeking women. We laughed at the girls who were desperately seeking a man, any man, especially since the place was seething with men.

 

That's the problem with the politically correct atmosphere we live in. People are afraid to say things like, "I like hot wimmenz," because they are socially ostracized as "shallow" and "superficial." Instead, they are groomed to say things like, "oh, I just want an 'average' woman"...

And now we have the victim perspective:

 

"It's everyone else's fault that I'm too much of a coward to speak my mind, so I choose to deny it."

 

 

If that's the case, they're not partner material and definitively, not one of the "in demand" men.

[USMCHokie]

Then post a pic of an average woman you'd date.

 

Kristen Stewart without the fame and the money and the makeup. When you look at a lot of the celebrities out there, she is relatively unremarkable. But I find her "average" look and masculine body shape and facial structure very appealing.

 

This isn't the perspective of what you initially posted and no amount of twisting will change that. Just admit you were wrong.

 

Now, to respond to this new perspective, I'm going back to my sorority days. Within my sorority, there weren't any MRS degree seeking women. We laughed at the girls who were desperately seeking a man, any man, especially since the place was seething with men.

 

Not everyone goes to college...

 

And about half the Marines I work with joined at 18 and are under 22 and most of them are married with similarly aged wives and some even have kids. If your only experience with people 18-21 is in college, then your perspective may be slightly skewed...

 

And now we have the victim perspective:

 

"It's everyone else's fault that I'm too much of a coward to speak my mind, so I choose to deny it."

 

 

If that's the case, they're not partner material and definitively, not one of the "in demand" men.

 

And once a man learns to speak his mind rather than conform to social "norms," he is truly liberated.

[tbf]

Kristen Stewart without the fame and the money and the makeup. When you look at a lot of the celebrities out there, she is relatively unremarkable. But I find her "average" look and masculine body shape and facial structure very appealing.

Good luck with your search for an "average" woman!

 

Not everyone goes to college...

At present, the majority do, particularly women.

 

And about half the Marines I work with joined at 18 and are under 22 and most of them are married with similarly aged wives and some even have kids. If your only experience with people 18-21 is in college, then your perspective may be slightly skewed...

Oh yes, the average man between 18 - 22 goes into the Marines...

 

Ever notice how the possibility of or brush with death can cause people to want to breed? The baby boomers aren't the largest generation for no reason.

And once a man learns to speak his mind rather than conform to social "norms," he is truly liberated.

I don't disagree with this at all. The same holds true of external validation needs.

[USMCHokie]

Good luck with your search for an "average" woman!

 

Thanks.

 

At present, the majority do, particularly women.

 

College Enrollment and Work Activity of 2012 High School Graduates

 

At least in the US last year, it was about 71% of recent female high school graduates were enrolled in college. A fair majority. It's just interesting that you can say with such certainty that all women that age aren't looking for something serious. Bt I'm not a woman, so who knows...

 

Oh yes, the average man between 18 - 22 goes into the Marines...

 

We also have three other branches of the military, and plenty of high school graduates who choose to go straight into the work force. The example was just used to illustrate that there are people who choose paths that don't involve college.

 

[quote

The same holds true of external validation needs.

 

Not going down the rabbit hole of external validation tonight...

[xxoo]

Kristen Stewart without the fame and the money and the makeup. When you look at a lot of the celebrities out there, she is relatively unremarkable. But I find her "average" look and masculine body shape and facial structure very appealing.

 

She's an average looking celebrity, not an average looking woman. Celebrities are more attractive than average, on the whole.

[chex]

I would never date an average person

 

 

sorry for the ****ed up post i cant fix it :cWebRep

 

Overall rating

 

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Edited April 30, 2013 by chex

[fortyninethousand322]

What is an "average person" anyway? I feel like this is kind of like the definition of pornography, you'll know it when you see it...

[tbf]

College Enrollment and Work Activity of 2012 High School Graduates

 

At least in the US last year, it was about 71% of recent female high school graduates were enrolled in college. A fair majority. It's just interesting that you can say with such certainty that all women that age aren't looking for something serious. Bt I'm not a woman, so who knows...

Yup, I recall the majority statistic quite clearly.

 

Nowhere have I said "all", I said average where average pertains to the majority, as illustrated in your link.

 

We also have three other branches of the military, and plenty of high school graduates who choose to go straight into the work force. The example was just used to illustrate that there are people who choose paths that don't involve college.

We were discussing the average woman where the college enrollment and marital statistics enforce my perspective, not yours.

 

Not going down the rabbit hole of external validation tonight...

It's all the same issues. Insecurity and a lack of self-worth.

[somedude81]

Most people are in relationships (at least some of the time). Most people are average. Most people are in relationships with average people.

 

I'd say that most men and women are fine with an average partner (although the person won't be average to their partner).

 

For people who struggle with finding a partner, feeling attracted to an average partner may be part of the issue. That seems especially likely with a combo of struggling to find a partner AND harshly critiquing average looking women or men on the internet.

For anybody who believes otherwise, I have no issue with being attracted to the average girl. My current salsa class has about 20+ girls in it. I would gladly date 90% of them. Of course assuming they all had decent personalities. If that's not saying that I'm fine with the average woman then I don't know what would.

 

I have no idea what any of that has in common with critiquing "average" looking women.

[USMCHokie]

What is an "average person" anyway? I feel like this is kind of like the definition of pornography, you'll know it when you see it...

 

As tbf alluded to, most people's idea of "average" is grossly inflated...

[chex]

Just wondering why anyone would settle for average, or say they "love average."

 

Average is boring. Average is normal. Average isn't spectacular in any way. Now, why would you date someone who isn't spectacular? All that aside, it's close to impossible to find someone who's completely average.

Edited May 1, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[xxoo]

To find "average", start in Walmart.

 

Somedude, how "average" is a salsa class? It's not exactly a random group sample. They are all women who chose to take a salsa class.

[USMCHokie]

It's all the same issues. Insecurity and a lack of self-worth.

 

We don't share the same definition of external validation.