Anela Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 This, this, this. A million times, this: I want more conversations like the one I recently had. I want to go days, years, without worrying what someone else thinks of me. I want to be in touch with my own body and health because it is mine, because I care about it, not because I’m worried that a million strangers will approve of it — that I might miss out on benefits or even jobs because I wasn’t pleasing enough to someone’s eye. I don’t want the occasional bad photo to be a jolt to the system because we are forced to curate something much more palatable to a thousand strangers on the internet. I want little girls to grow up in a world where thinking about the way they look is an occasional dalliance, not a crippling facet of their existence. Because we all deserve that, and we should all realize that it’s not impossible, even if a 20-dollar beauty product we just have to buy insists that it is. When You See Yourself In A Bad Picture | Thought Catalog 4 Link to post Share on other sites
man_in_the_box Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 If that were true, the woman in the blog would be thin. She's a trainer; working out is her livelihood. She came from 240 lbs - if I am correct that's something you cannot leave out of the equation as someone with her lifestyle that didn't lose so much weight could very well look very different. The more respect for her though - it's an impressive feat. I'd even say a very attractive one 2 Link to post Share on other sites
dichotomy Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 The problem is psychological. How do you make your penis bigger ? Ya know - sometimes I wonder - if the plastic surgeons ever figured out how to do penis enlargements as easily and (relatively) safely as breast enlargements - there would be some strange effects on society. Men would be out of control with with it.... But seriously this is all do to what a normal (or should I say average) male or female body looks like and the self esteem issues created by relatively rare (or Photoshopped) body images we all see in media. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 She came from 240 lbs - if I am correct that's something you cannot leave out of the equation as someone with her lifestyle that didn't lose so much weight could very well look very different. The more respect for her though - it's an impressive feat. I'd even say a very attractive one Other individuals have started from the same size and gotten thin. It really looks to me like she packs on muscle more than most women (look at those legs!). Thus, it seems to me it would be difficult for her to ever be thin. My point is: Genetics do play a role in what shapes we can achieve through diet and exercise, for better or for worse. Second point: It's best to work with what you've got 2 Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Well there's a couple of buts and ifs to that statement. For men its easier to get in shape/lose some weight and even built that little bit of muscle by doing weight exercises. However after a certain point, depending on your built it becomes exponentially more intensive and difficult. I have a bad built for getting muscles. Its easy to get a bit but getting noticable effects requires deddicated workouts multiple times a week. That is exactly what I'm talking about. A point that is lost on the women here. I could easily get thinner and have some muscle on me, but that isn't my goal. To actually get big arms and shoulders with my genes is almost impossible. The average healthy young woman doesn't have to do a whole lot to stay thin. And most of them do start off as thin. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 5 different 150 lbs women - for reference. That is exactly what I'm talking about. A point that is lost on the women here. I could easily get thinner and have some muscle on me, but that isn't my goal. To actually get big arms and shoulders with my genes is almost impossible. The average healthy young woman doesn't have to do a whole lot to stay thin. And most of them do start off as thin. I think you completely missed xxoo's point about ectomorphs and endomorphs - which is odd, considering that is a concept that you reiterate multiple times about your own body. The same concept applies to women's bodies. Many of the thin young women I know actually do do quite a lot to stay thin, they just don't advertise it. Some are genetically thin, but that is hardly the majority. If you 'feel' you can easily do the bolded, why do you not? Take a browse through the 'male body type' thread - there is definitely a following for lean + muscular. This guy does not have huge arms and shoulders. Neither do these male models. Once you actually try it, you may find it is not as 'easy' as it sounds. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 A 127 lbs woman, which is a pretty good reminder of exactly how absurd some expectations of women are. The woman on the left does not look 'ideal' by media standards, but is definitely in the healthy weight range. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I think you completely missed xxoo's point about ectomorphs and endomorphs - which is odd, considering that is a concept that you reiterate multiple times about your own body. The same concept applies to women's bodies. Exactly. Not all women find it similarly easy to gain and lose muscle and fat, just as is true in men. It is extremely easy for my H to build muscle. From that limited perspective, would it be rational for me to conclude that most men could easily build muscle like him with similar effort? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Exactly. Not all women find it similarly easy to gain and lose muscle and fat, just as is true in men. It is extremely easy for my H to build muscle. From that limited perspective, would it be rational for me to conclude that most men could easily build muscle like him with similar effort? Yup. Interestingly enough, the bf is an extreme ectomorph whereas I'm a... not exactly endomorph, I suppose, but closer to it. He eats literally twice as much as I do, and is very thin. He does have abs from martial arts training (which I find hot! ) but, like the men in the pictures I linked, he would probably have a very difficult time bulking up. Neither of us seems to mind. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
tbf Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I input my height, weight and age into a BMR (Basal metabolic rate or body at rest caloric burning rate) calculator. Then input gender and then swapped genders. The results are as follows: Male: 1249.84 Female: 1222.9 The average man has up to 20 times more testosterone than the average woman which means that the average man builds muscle mass easier. The effect of having more muscle mass means the quicker burning of calories, even at rest. Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 5 different 150 lbs women - for reference. I think you completely missed xxoo's point about ectomorphs and endomorphs - which is odd, considering that is a concept that you reiterate multiple times about your own body. The same concept applies to women's bodies. Many of the thin young women I know actually do do quite a lot to stay thin, they just don't advertise it. Some are genetically thin, but that is hardly the majority. If you 'feel' you can easily do the bolded, why do you not? Take a browse through the 'male body type' thread - there is definitely a following for lean + muscular. This guy does not have huge arms and shoulders. Neither do these male models. Once you actually try it, you may find it is not as 'easy' as it sounds. You cant be serious. That is your example of thin and some muscle? That Mario dude is especially muscular. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a body liked that? Link to post Share on other sites
man_in_the_box Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Other individuals have started from the same size and gotten thin. It really looks to me like she packs on muscle more than most women (look at those legs!). Thus, it seems to me it would be difficult for her to ever be thin. My point is: Genetics do play a role in what shapes we can achieve through diet and exercise, for better or for worse. Second point: It's best to work with what you've got Well, you're right - I'm not denying that woman don't have to look like media ideals, thin or skinny at a healthy weight. I'm just saying you cannot cancel out that the former weight of the specific lady in the OP plays a role in what she looks like now. Although my partner is at a healthy and normal weight - its still visisble 2 years later that her weight was very different in the past. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 You cant be serious. That is your example of thin and some muscle? That Mario dude is especially muscular. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a body liked that? I absolutely don't think it is easy. That is why I was skeptical when you said you can 'easily do it'. In fact, I'm pretty certain that that body is every bit as difficult to attain as a female model's body. But yes, those models I linked are on the 'thinner' side as opposed to the bulkier ones. Link to post Share on other sites
ltjg45 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 You cant be serious. That is your example of thin and some muscle? That Mario dude is especially muscular. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a body liked that? Mario doesn't look muscular at all. He got some muscle but definitely not a lot of it. Link to post Share on other sites
Esoteric Elf Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 What the hell is going on in this thread?? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 That is exactly what I'm talking about. A point that is lost on the women here. You know nothing about women, in general or any specific women. I'm pretty sure that points about women are not lost on the women here. WE know about being women. YOU do not. The average healthy young woman doesn't have to do a whole lot to stay thin. And most of them do start off as thin. Do you think you could refrain from, once again, dragging yet another thread into the worn out, lame territory of "women have it so much better than men"? Seriously, your comments about it are offensive. And this thread is NOT about YOUR preference for skinny post pubescent girls. This is a thread about women being happy people and having fulfilled, healthy lives that include love, even if they DO NOT have a particular kind of body. Capisce? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Huh? Last time I heard, scrawny/skinny men aren't attractive to women unless the guy is very good looking. You didn't hear it from me. I dislike pumped up looking male bodies a lot. Women want a guy who has big arms and shoulders. Not really. Skinny "hipster" dudes are much … hipper looking than meat heads. Takes all kinds. It's much easier for a woman to get and remain thin then it is for a man to "get big.' First of all, that's BS that you just made up to promote your never ending agenda about how women all have it so made compared to you. Would you like a healthy alternative to that way of looking at this conversation? How about thinking, "wow. It's hard to change my body. I think I am understanding a little bit about how hard it might be for that FAT GIRL to change her body, too." It could be a bridge to help you approach the same planet where the women live rather than your usual tact of staying in a completely alien realm. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 And this thread is NOT about YOUR preference for skinny post pubescent girls. Correction. Skinny post pubescent girls with melon sized breast. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Some people workout as needed......but can't control their diet. Probably why that women in the blog is not thin. Trust me, you stop shoving food in your mouth for a while and you will get thin. If someone claims they "watch their diet and barely eat anything..." but still gain weight or not lose any....well....they are lying...to other people and to themselves. Or maybe they have a magic body that can make something out of nothing. If so, they should contact some scientist, because then they can figure out how to mutate an animal to be able to grow bigger without actually having to eat anything. It would be a miracle! :laugh: Did you even read the article? Honest answer now. Your point is quite right, but thankfully many people, including the woman who wrote the article in the OP, don't believe it's worth risking their health by 'barely eating anything' just to attain a media ideal. So, yes, the blogger doesn't 'barely eat anything' - she does eat a healthy diet. Maybe you want to go back and actually take a glance at the article before starting on your MO. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 :laugh: Did you even read the article? Honest answer now. Your point is quite right, but thankfully many people, including the woman who wrote the article in the OP, don't believe it's worth risking their health by 'barely eating anything' just to attain a media ideal. So, yes, the blogger doesn't 'barely eat anything' - she does eat a healthy diet. Maybe you want to go back and actually take a glance at the article before starting on your MO. Having a big belly/fatty mid-section like most of those in the photo is very unhealthy. I'm prone to it myself so I know it's hard to shift. People are more likely to be affected by heart disease if they have a larger mid-section (relative to their overall appearance) than those with larger butt or thighs. So it's not risking their health at all to get trim - and I know how hard that is because even though I'm slim, I naturally put weight on in the middle. It's not barely eating if you cut the crap out of your diet - which is how you get fat in the middle. I think it's fine to look the way a person choses to look but saying they don't want to risk their health is disingenuous. Being fit and lean is healthy. Having fat around the belly isn't. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Having a big belly/fatty mid-section like most of those in the photo is very unhealthy. I'm prone to it myself so I know it's hard to shift. People are more likely to be affected by heart disease if they have a larger mid-section (relative to their overall appearance) than those with larger butt or thighs. So it's not risking their health at all to get trim - and I know how hard that is because even though I'm slim, I naturally put weight on in the middle. It's not barely eating if you cut the crap out of your diet - which is how you get fat in the middle. I think it's fine to look the way a person choses to look but saying they don't want to risk their health is disingenuous. Being fit and lean is healthy. Having fat around the belly isn't. Imported suggested 'barely eating anything', not cutting out more fat. That is most definitely risking one's health. I believe the risk factor for heart disease is waist-hip ratio specifically. The blogger's waist-hip ratio should be fine. As for the picture I linked (which is a little off-topic), two of the women could stand to lose fat for health reasons - the other 3 should be fine. I sincerely doubt that is Imported's motive in posting that, though. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Imported suggested 'barely eating anything', he said some people who are overweight claimed they were 'barely eating anything' and that it was in his opinion blatantly untrue. He didn't say people should barely eat anything. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I honestly think you're taking my post to him a little out of context. My point was that he has not read the article, is making assumptions about the blogger (who really does not need to lose any more fat for health reasons, any medical professional will agree with that), and is missing the point of the thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I honestly think you're taking my post to him a little out of context. My point was that he has not read the article, is making assumptions about the blogger (who really does not need to lose any more fat for health reasons, any medical professional will agree with that), and is missing the point of the thread. If by blogger you mean the lady the original post was based on: she needs to watch her weight. He probably didn't read the article, you are right. I don't know whether he is missing the point of the thread, I'm assuming his defintion of a 'real woman' isn't the OP's definition of a real women. Nothing wrong with that. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Having a big belly/fatty mid-section like most of those in the photo is very unhealthy. I'm prone to it myself so I know it's hard to shift. People are more likely to be affected by heart disease if they have a larger mid-section (relative to their overall appearance) than those with larger butt or thighs. So it's not risking their health at all to get trim - and I know how hard that is because even though I'm slim, I naturally put weight on in the middle. It's not barely eating if you cut the crap out of your diet - which is how you get fat in the middle. I think it's fine to look the way a person choses to look but saying they don't want to risk their health is disingenuous. Being fit and lean is healthy. Having fat around the belly isn't. Do you believe that the woman in the blog has an unhealthy amount of fat in her midsection? I think medical experts would disagree. I think we (as a group) focus on the lower range of healthy. Yes, of course, a flat tummy with little belly fat can be healthy. But how much softness can a belly have a still be healthy? Some fat is fine. Some fat doesn't put a person at risk. That's why the BMI and the recommended waist/height measurements have a healthy range. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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