The Fog - APs take on it?

[Lillyfree]

i too have said that i suffered from temporary insanity during the A. not 'fog', as it seems to be a very controversial term around here.

 

i've never used it to excuse my actions though. i completely own what i've done.

 

 

my personality changed. i was a completely different person during that period. something my husband noticed and now understands, and completely agrees with. but other people, friends and family, who have no idea about the A have made similar comments.

[MissBee]

The idea that fog isn't "scientific" is narrowminded. Every experience we have is scientific.

 

If "falling in love" is not magic but scientific, why isn't fog? Love doesn't take you over like a magic fairy sprinkling dust on you, it's a process that happens in your brain. Likewise, so is fog. It's the same in love thing which can lead people down a role of peril.

 

I can attest to being quite insane while with an ex and in-love and have described it as when I was in the dungeon. People have different names for it, but nevertheless, there seems to be several accounts from people in certain relationships truly feeling like they have no clue how. I remember saying to my friend re my ex: was I drunk the entire time????

 

I didn't experience that same kind of dissonance in my A though and I'm sure not everyone does. But some do, just like some experience it in other relationships.

[jlola]

Thanks for highlighting this.

 

That was what I was getting at in my initial post. Which was removed for quote violations, but here goes again:

 

Here's the explanation for brain chemicals in love.

 

Brain in Love, Brain Chemicals, Brain Science - Posit Science

 

 

 

 

I imagine the fog is the same thing but coupled with other processes and conflicts because it is an affair and not simply the regular falling inlove with no barriers. In short, every feeling is associated with a chemical process, so fog, even if not currently researched specifically, isn't arising out of thin air, but might simply be the same process our brain experiences when in love but is seen as more insane because of the double nature of one's life and the extent some have to go to preserve it. No matter what name it's given...it has a neuroscientific explanation, so long as we experience it. Every emotion is linked to brain processes.

 

Poets, musicians, everyday people have long understood that the brain in love, even if that love is short-lived, can be a bit crazy. Scientists have discovered a person in love has a brain hopped up on chemicals and will seem to do anything for that love object/feeling, that when they are no longer in love, they're like wtf??? Why???. It's how it is for everyone. The affair fog from what I can intelligently deduce is a variation of this normal process but because there is a spouse and a double life, unlike with single people, this snapping out of it often gets aided by a dday, or they have been living in compartments anyway and the constrains often produce an even heightened sense of the crazy already in existence with lovers. And again, I think who determines this is the BS witnessing their spouses behaviors and explanations as well as the WS themselves...not the AP.

 

 

Affair love to me is likened to someone being with a personality disordered person. These people cause such a rush of highs and lows, the person in love feels it intensenly. More so than a relationship with a "normal" person because your emotions are all over the place. that is why PD people always seem to be able to lure love objects who are way out of their league.

 

I was reading a forum once when someone said the book"The Art of Seduction"?? By Thomas Greene,was clearly written by a cluster B personality disordered person. When looking at it though, the rules of seduction also applied to affairs.

 

Such as keep them isolated,keep them insecure,triangulate,be unpredictable,leave the relationship and come back(keeping them unsure and insecure)

 

I do believe these technique's throw brain and body chemistry out of whack.

[thomasb]

It is always sad to have someone more interested in shoving their opinion down someone's throat rather than 'discussing' the issue.

I was definitely in a 'fog' during the affair. My behavior was abhorrent to my upbringing and personal beliefs and morals. I finally came out of the 'fog' to see what I was doing to the people I really loved by engaging with the OW.

 

Another... Since you were replying to this post and even quoted it yourself, explain again how you didn't know I was a MM. Your argument against 'the fog' and not knowing my story are both fallacy..

[cocorico]

I was reading a forum once when someone said the book"The Art of Seduction"?? By Thomas Greene,was clearly written by a cluster B personality disordered person. When looking at it though, the rules of seduction also applied to affairs.

 

Such as keep them isolated,keep them insecure,triangulate,be unpredictable,leave the relationship and come back(keeping them unsure and insecure)

 

 

What on earth do any of those behaviours have to do with an A? They have everything to do with a manipulative person controlling a R - but that could be *any* kind of R. I would suspect the overlap between Rs with the behaviours you list above, and As, is fairly small. Certainly my A was nothing like that, nor any of the As I've seen up close IRL, though I have seen abusive Ms and abusive LTRs like that when I counselled women at the shelter.

[AnotherRound]

What on earth do any of those behaviours have to do with an A? They have everything to do with a manipulative person controlling a R - but that could be *any* kind of R. I would suspect the overlap between Rs with the behaviours you list above, and As, is fairly small. Certainly my A was nothing like that, nor any of the As I've seen up close IRL, though I have seen abusive Ms and abusive LTRs like that when I counselled women at the shelter.

 

I agree here Coco. It seems that there are many misconceptions about what an affair is by people who are especially hurt by an affair. For me - after having become the OW - I was even less hurt by my exHs affair - bc I could see - it was just a relationship. It wasn't a soulmate thing (I've never bought into that) - we were just two people that met, were attracted, and fell in love. The only special circumstance I can even partially agree with is that your time CAN be limited with that person, so maybe that initial honeymoon stage lasts a bit longer - but even that I question.

 

I mean - exMM and I were spending a LOT of time with one another - on the phone and in person. Probably as much as we would have had we been dating and he had NOT been married. And, after 7 years - we were well acquainted with one another - faults and all. That honeymoon phase didn't turn into some weird ongoing "fog" all that time that kept us from seeing the reality of our situation. We were quite aware of our situation, throughout - and we chose what we chose bc we thought the consequences were worth it.

 

I guess - if there was an affair that was very short lived, and very hectic - whirlwindish - I MIGHT buy that people were swept up in the moment (not that their brain chemistry was at fault, lol) and got carried away. But, in these affairs that last months and years - I see nothing but a relationship. Time spent together isn't an indicator of the strength of a relationship -otherwise, military folks would be far worse off than they are. It's about the bonding that takes place -the nurturing. You can live on top of each other and not be bonding - and not see each other every minute of every day and be closer than ever.

[AnotherRound]

Another... Since you were replying to this post and even quoted it yourself, explain again how you didn't know I was a MM. Your argument against 'the fog' and not knowing my story are both fallacy..

 

I missed that you were an MM, sorry. I was reading a lot of posts, and sometimes, with the posters I don't know well (like you) they tend to blur together a bit.

 

You believe what you need to sleep better at night. Did your wife take you back? Allow you to stay? If so - you have EVERY reason to need/want the fog to be a real thing - it works in your favor. You can continue to play the victim of the poor man who cannot control his brain chemicals - you are so powerless over what you did, so you can't be held 100% responsible. Rme. Okay Thomasb... you're lucky if your wife believed that nonsense - I would have laughed in your face as I showed you the door. I hope that the chemicals don't take over your brain again!!! lol

[AnotherRound]

All my experience with psychology in school thus far has rested on the premise: "it doesn't matter if the paranornal exists. What matters is that two thirds of the population purports a belief in the paranormal, and so we must strive to understand how the phenomena effects the human experience."

 

That's the basis of psychology really: the event which caused trauma may be over, the delusions someone suffers from may not be "real" but the "realness" of it is in the patient's head and so we must acknowledge it as real FOR THEM.

 

The difference? I'm an atheist. I don't believe a god is real. But I DO accept that others DO have a REAL belief in god. If I get caught up in whether their belief is true, I fail to understand WHY they have that belief, how it effects them, what it does for them.

 

So often I see "psychologist" ows here pretend affairs aren't abuse, that brain chemistry can't change from stress, that the "fog" doesn't exist, that kids are "resilient" and won't permanently suffer from infidelity, blah etc.

 

To me its ridiculous to see people try to act scientific and then forget the first premise of scientific psychology: that "reality" is about PERCEPTION in the afflicted's mind.

 

When that base premise is accepted: That people purport these feelings. THEN we can begin to talk about WHY they have these feelings. So long as "psychologist" ow pretend that bs's are just inventing false allegations there is no truly intelligent conversation to be had here.

 

Which is exactly why "reality" needs to be in quotes. I know it's real to them - I get it. That does not make it an actual physical phenomena. And, I'm not saying that the BSs are the ones that started this nonsense about "the fog" - I'm sure it is a completely WS creation, for obvious reasons.

 

I am NOT a psychologist. I am just a poster like everyone else - I am a layman. I'm not sure why people keep bringing up that issue bc it has been explicitly stated by the moderators that I am simply another poster here. Please follow moderator's directions. Thanks!

[cocorico]

I'm not saying that the BSs are the ones that started this nonsense about "the fog" - I'm sure it is a completely WS creation, for obvious reasons.

 

 

I think my H had a good point when he suggested it was invented by the MC industry. I imagine its been a real money-spinner for them - imagine how many airport books, talk shows, forums, etc it has spawned - and all the advertising revenue that has generated! They must be laughing all the way to the bank!

[AnotherRound]

I think my H had a good point when he suggested it was invented by the MC industry. I imagine its been a real money-spinner for them - imagine how many airport books, talk shows, forums, etc it has spawned - and all the advertising revenue that has generated! They must be laughing all the way to the bank!

 

Especially considering that is the only place I can find anything about it - marriage building sites. Like I said, I think it does make it easier for people to forgive themselves and for the BS to forgive their WS - which is EXACTLY what people in the "marriage building" industry want.

 

That's an interesting perspective - I hadn't really thought of that, but yeah, makes total sense. And Helen Fisher is the only credible (I can't really discern if she is credible, nor her studies as she doesn't seem to provide much about them, just her conclusions) resource I can find. I'm assuming she is credible to an extent bc of the academic facility she represents (Reuters I think? It was a reputable one if I remember right) - but I would need to read a LOT more on her "theory" and see some research results I want good samples too. I saw one sample that was like 24 couples - um - that's NOT a sample, and validity could not be proven from a "sample" of 48 people.

 

But yes - I can see it. Maybe I will write a book about it!!!! I could use the extra money - and add a few letters after my name, and a voila!

[thomasb]

Glad I made you smile.

 

Hmmm... the bolded part, really? lol I'm sorry I didn't remember you or single you out when reading a million posts - you just didn't "stand out"... it wasn't personal. As far as reminding you of your OW - that's interesting to me. You remind me NOTHING of my exMM... he had no need to pretend that he wasn't making his own choices. Did your OW break up with you? And are you now divorced? Bc that's what happened in my situation - I didn't get that's what happened in yours - so, maybe your OW wasn't important to you - you do sound much more selfish than my exMM

 

You know what? I actually feel sorry for you. I think you really do want to believe he was decent, caring man. And you struggle with that. He was not while it was going on. That is 'the fog'. It is an abhorrent violation of personal beliefs and morals. And that is why I pity you. because I think you try to rationalize and scream so hard against a deep belief in the same damn thing.

Goodnight!

[AnotherRound]

You know what? I actually feel sorry for you. I think you really do want to believe he was decent, caring man. And you struggle with that. He was not while it was going on. That is 'the fog'. It is an abhorrent violation of personal beliefs and morals. And that is why I pity you. because I think you try to rationalize and scream so hard against a deep belief in the same damn thing.

Goodnight!

 

He is a decent and caring man. He can also be an *******. To me, those things are not mutually exclusive. He can be both - as we all can. That doesn't freak me out in the least, to accept that dichotomy.

 

As we've established, with lack of any evidence, there is no "fog". Personal beliefs and morals are not yours to decide for everyone. And, in my situation, nobody's morals were violated - we were all aware. I didn't do anything that went against my moral code - there was no lying, no manipulation. It wasn't "nice" always to everyone involved - but we are all adults and all aware and life isn't always "nice".

 

I'm not screaming - we are discussing (well, I am - you might be screaming!). I have a deep belief in not sugar coating things to make ourselves feel better. You're right. I have a deep belief in taking 100% accountability for everything and anything I do in this life - even when it hurts another person - and especially when I did it KNOWING that it had the potential to hurt another person.

 

You are not a "bad" person bc you had an affair - I think you struggle with that. You were not in a "fog" of chemical brain changes - although, I totally understand why you (and I think your wife?) want/need to believe that right now. I hope it gets you through to where you can realize that there was no fog - just you, making really hurtful decisions without regard to how that would affect your wife (and family, if you have one). I know that's a tough medicine to swallow, and it's bitter - but adding a spoonful of sugar to it only makes it taste better -it doesn't change the fact that underneath - it is still that nasty medicine.

[AnotherRound]

Coco - I also asked exMM what he thought of this thread - he couldn't even be bothered to read it all he found it so silly (his word, not mine). He immediately stated, "fog? Wtf are they talking about? I knew exactly what I was doing and the fallout it could cause - I just didn't care bc it was worth it. My marriage needed to end." Huh.... He also said, "I should have had the balls to just end it, but I was worried about the kids and a lot of other things. About how all that would work out for everyone - not just me, but everyone." And that makes sense to me.

 

I know for him, he and his exW also have businesses together - very lucrative businesses - and neither of them could do it alone - they would either have to replace the other with another partner (which he is not comfortable with) or give up a LOT of income that they both depend on. So, that was a consideration too - could they get divorced but keep the businesses going as partners in that environment? As of now - they do - both businesses, and they work well together that way. They just didn't work well together as a married couple.

 

I wish that more WSs posted here, although I can understand why they don't. It would be interesting to see what they have to say about this. I also have a feeling that those that claim to have been in a fog are in reconciliation - or have tried, and those that don't claim it, left their marriage. I think that's telling too. I mean - it is always harder to leave and accept an entirely new life than to find a "reason" for your behaviors and wipe the slate and stay. And, I'm not sure of the statistics of reconciliations, how many work, but I seem to remember it being pretty low - and I wonder if that's bc there really isn't a fog and people just realize eventually that it wasn't a fog - but that their marriage was just over, and they couldn't accept that for whatever reason?

[jlola]

What on earth do any of those behaviours have to do with an A? They have everything to do with a manipulative person controlling a R - but that could be *any* kind of R. I would suspect the overlap between Rs with the behaviours you list above, and As, is fairly small. Certainly my A was nothing like that, nor any of the As I've seen up close IRL, though I have seen abusive Ms and abusive LTRs like that when I counselled women at the shelter.

 

 

Because even though the rules are done subconsciously both by personality disordered and people in affairs. It has the same effect on the "target".

 

Affairs are built on "triangulation" . Otherwise,it would not be an affair.

 

Affairs are built on "uncertainty". You never know when you will have a d-day or if lover will choose you.

 

Affairs are built on "isolation" which creates an us against the world mentality. Which I think is rule #22

 

Affairs are built on "creating and exit and coming back" keeping them anxious. Which is what NC or multiple D-days create.

 

"Create drama". I have never heard of an affair not creating drama. It is often described as a rollercoaster.

 

There are many more rules that apply. Not saying people in affairs purposely manipulate. Saying by doing those rules, it does change a persons brain chemistry. At least temporarily. Until you get to #24 where the seduction is over.

 

 

If you cannot see the similarities, that is ok. Some people will though.

 

None of what I mentioned may have been present in your affair except a third party. You are one of the lucky few who in an affair who was confident,never anxious,never had no contact or d-day,never had drama,never had isolation. could contact your affair partner anytime,So of course you can't relate..I understand.

[WakingUp]

Oh good grief.

 

Its really not that complicated. If it feels good, people will do it... and justify it later.

 

I don't get this endless rationalisation. Its very simple really.

[AnotherRound]

It's interesting to me that Helen Fisher's studies are brought up as backing the fog theory. If you look at my old posts, you'll see that I use Helen Fisher to back up my perspective. Thus it seems to me that it is in the eyes of the beholder. Helen Fisher talks about the chemistry of love, not about "the fog". There are married couples out there (presented in her studies) who continue to produce these love chemicals for 25 years+. Are they too in a fog then? Or are they just lucky enough that their brains work in a way that they continue to feel in love with each other throughout the years? Just like many APs do.

 

Helen Fisher is a resource for understanding how our brains work when we are in love. In no way do her studies back up any theory about fog in affairs. That's a misrepresentation of her studies.

 

I agree. I also noted that she talked about lust - but also said that sex creates bonding, which some people will adamantly deny and say that sex is not needed to bond. From what I read of her stuff, she talked about the high of being in love raising chemicals - but a LOT of things in life do that for our bodies. Exercise being one. Tanning beds another. Do people get addicted to those things? I guess - but you don't see them going all weird about it and claiming it was a fog - bc it doesn't hurt anyone else - there is no need to explain WHY they do it to anyone else - nobody's been hurt.

 

And, those endorphin highs only last so long. If they lasted infinitely - there would be NO depression or anxiety in this world. And certainly not within an affair - where the normal range of emotions is felt (in my experience and from what I've seen) - there isn't this constant high that just carries on and on forever. My exMM and I disagree, we argued, we went through the "normal" phases of a relationship - with ups and downs. Heck - if it was all ups I would have been very suspicious bc that is not reality!!! lol

 

I will read through your other posts - I had never heard of Helen Fisher until this site, and this topic. And, she does pop up when I research it - but from what I read, she isn't saying that people are out of control of themselves, in a dissociative state of any kind - just getting a little bolt of endorphins - that's an every day thing for a lot of people - not any kind of alien take over.

[Lillyfree]

'fog', 'affair buble', 'temporary insanity' have so far been used to describe a state of mind some posters were in during their affairs.

 

i am yet to see that anyone was using it as an excuse. and no one hasn't owned up to what they've done.

 

yes, what happened was due to my decisions - i have never said otherwise.

 

the whole fog thing is primarily a way to understand MYSELF what was happening with me during that time. i am not relieving my guilt or getting an easy way to R.

 

i actually take offense to your and some other posters' approach to this. AR, i thought there was something wrong with me. once i was able to see what was actually happening in the A, once i decided it was time to end it, i started questioning my sanity. my values, my reasoning.

 

i've gone from a logical thinker, strong, self-assured, happy person to a complete opposite to all those things. and that's not the fog bit. i was aware of the change yet went against myself...and then, i was angry with myself for doing so.

yet i still stayed in that situation. i knew deep down what it was, but i was desperate to keep it going - against that tiny little remainder of sanity that kept saying 'get out!'

 

and, contrary to what you say, there WERE physical changes. i've lost a lot of weight. i wasn't sleeping, or if i did i would wake up 3-4 times a night, or once and never go back to sleep until it was time to get up. i aged terribly. i would either go overboard with exercise or not do anything for a week. people close to me were concerned to the point were they thought my cancer scare was in fact real and i should get tests re-done. that is how awful i looked.

 

i've gone from being one way all my life, to a complete opposite for a year, and now i'm pretty much back on track again.

 

so please, don't tell me what i've gone through isn't real and that it's just an excuse for my bad behaviour! just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean you can dismiss what other people have been through.

[cocorico]

Because even though the rules are done subconsciously both by personality disordered and people in affairs. It has the same effect on the "target".

 

Affairs are built on "triangulation" . Otherwise,it would not be an affair.

 

Affairs are built on "uncertainty". You never know when you will have a d-day or if lover will choose you.

 

Affairs are built on "isolation" which creates an us against the world mentality. Which I think is rule #22

 

Affairs are built on "creating and exit and coming back" keeping them anxious. Which is what NC or multiple D-days create.

 

"Create drama". I have never heard of an affair not creating drama. It is often described as a rollercoaster.

 

There are many more rules that apply. Not saying people in affairs purposely manipulate. Saying by doing those rules, it does change a persons brain chemistry. At least temporarily. Until you get to #24 where the seduction is over.

 

 

If you cannot see the similarities, that is ok. Some people will though.

 

None of what I mentioned may have been present in your affair except a third party. You are one of the lucky few who in an affair who was confident,never anxious,never had no contact or d-day,never had drama,never had isolation. could contact your affair partner anytime,So of course you can't relate..I understand.

 

Since you accept that it was not true for me - or those others who agreed with my post, you accept that it is not universal for As, thus applies only to a subset of As, just as it applies only to a subset of Ms, and a subset of other LTRs. Hence, there is no particular reason to link it to As above linking it to any other kind of R featuring a manipulative dysfunctional partner.

 

Or at least, that's what logical people would accept. I can't put words in the mouths of people whose ideologies may blind them to logic.

[WakingUp]

'fog', 'affair buble', 'temporary insanity' have so far been used to describe a state of mind some posters were in during their affairs.

 

i am yet to see that anyone was using it as an excuse. and no one hasn't owned up to what they've done.

 

yes, what happened was due to my decisions - i have never said otherwise.

 

the whole fog thing is primarily a way to understand MYSELF what was happening with me during that time. i am not relieving my guilt or getting an easy way to R.

 

i actually take offense to your and some other posters' approach to this. AR, i thought there was something wrong with me. once i was able to see what was actually happening in the A, once i decided it was time to end it, i started questioning my sanity. my values, my reasoning.

 

i've gone from a logical thinker, strong, self-assured, happy person to a complete opposite to all those things. and that's not the fog bit. i was aware of the change yet went against myself...and then, i was angry with myself for doing so.

yet i still stayed in that situation. i knew deep down what it was, but i was desperate to keep it going - against that tiny little remainder of sanity that kept saying 'get out!'

 

and, contrary to what you say, there WERE physical changes. i've lost a lot of weight. i wasn't sleeping, or if i did i would wake up 3-4 times a night, or once and never go back to sleep until it was time to get up. i aged terribly. i would either go overboard with exercise or not do anything for a week. people close to me were concerned to the point were they thought my cancer scare was in fact real and i should get tests re-done. that is how awful i looked.

 

i've gone from being one way all my life, to a complete opposite for a year, and now i'm pretty much back on track again.

 

so please, don't tell me what i've gone through isn't real and that it's just an excuse for my bad behaviour! just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean you can dismiss what other people have been through.

 

 

This is it! The effects of an affair are absolutely awful. So destructive.

 

No one knows your reality like you do.

[jlola]

I forgot #18

Stir up transgressive and taboo

 

 

Yes, I know this does not apply to you or anyone you know in an affair.Gotcha!!!

[AnotherRound]

'fog', 'affair buble', 'temporary insanity' have so far been used to describe a state of mind some posters were in during their affairs.

 

i am yet to see that anyone was using it as an excuse. and no one hasn't owned up to what they've done.

 

yes, what happened was due to my decisions - i have never said otherwise.

 

the whole fog thing is primarily a way to understand MYSELF what was happening with me during that time. i am not relieving my guilt or getting an easy way to R.

 

i actually take offense to your and some other posters' approach to this. AR, i thought there was something wrong with me. once i was able to see what was actually happening in the A, once i decided it was time to end it, i started questioning my sanity. my values, my reasoning.

 

i've gone from a logical thinker, strong, self-assured, happy person to a complete opposite to all those things. and that's not the fog bit. i was aware of the change yet went against myself...and then, i was angry with myself for doing so.

yet i still stayed in that situation. i knew deep down what it was, but i was desperate to keep it going - against that tiny little remainder of sanity that kept saying 'get out!'

 

and, contrary to what you say, there WERE physical changes. i've lost a lot of weight. i wasn't sleeping, or if i did i would wake up 3-4 times a night, or once and never go back to sleep until it was time to get up. i aged terribly. i would either go overboard with exercise or not do anything for a week. people close to me were concerned to the point were they thought my cancer scare was in fact real and i should get tests re-done. that is how awful i looked.

 

i've gone from being one way all my life, to a complete opposite for a year, and now i'm pretty much back on track again.

 

so please, don't tell me what i've gone through isn't real and that it's just an excuse for my bad behaviour! just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean you can dismiss what other people have been through.

 

Could what you have been feeling be guilt? It sounds like guilt to me - not sleeping, losing weight - etc.

 

I'm not dismissing your feelings - I'm simply disagreeing with calling it a "fog" and acting as if it was passive.

 

You said yourself that you had that little bit of "sanity" that you knew it was wrong - BUT you chose to keep doing it. ???? That is not a "fog" - it's not that you couldn't see what you were doing was wrong, you didn't stop yourself despite knowing it was wrong. And as a result, you suffered - sleepless, decreased appetite - etc. That's just a natural reaction to harming others and knowing it yet still willingly choosing it.

[AnotherRound]

I forgot #18

Stir up transgressive and taboo

 

 

Yes, I know this does not apply to you or anyone you know in an affair.Gotcha!!!

 

Do you have anything besides Youtube? A transcript maybe? Sorry, but I don't use youtube - I will look up Robert Greene though.

[AnotherRound]

Do you have anything besides Youtube? A transcript maybe? Sorry, but I don't use youtube - I will look up Robert Greene though.

 

Wait - he's a self-help guru? Does he have actual research, or is he along the lines of Dr. Phil - working on a revoked licensure????

 

I am trying to find something describing his rules of seduction - but so far, only links to buy his stuff - which I'm not really interested in buying, lol.

 

Links? Or text to describe what he says with his rule #18?

[AnotherRound]

Okay - I can't find rule #18 laid out by Robert Greene - although I did get a LOT of invites to buy his books - rme. lol

 

If his book is entitled "Seduction" - and I think the it is the follow up to the 48 rules one - then this is relevant -

 

In colloquial language and fictional literature, seduction is the process of deliberately enticing a person, to lead astray, as from duty, rectitude, or the like; to corrupt, to persuade or induce to engage in sexual behaviour. The word seduction stems from Latin and means literally "to lead astray".

And - I'm not sure that this would work as a description as it insinuated a deliberate enticement of another person - not just falling in love, or being attracted - but purposely trying to "lead them astray". ??? I don't think that falling in love is leading someone astray - is it????

 

Anyway -thanks for all the input - had some great posts and some great points and some good dialogue. I gotta get some paper work done tonight - lots of work leads to lots of paper work afterwards!

[Lillyfree]

Could what you have been feeling be guilt? It sounds like guilt to me - not sleeping, losing weight - etc.

 

I'm not dismissing your feelings - I'm simply disagreeing with calling it a "fog" and acting as if it was passive.

 

You said yourself that you had that little bit of "sanity" that you knew it was wrong - BUT you chose to keep doing it. ???? That is not a "fog" - it's not that you couldn't see what you were doing was wrong, you didn't stop yourself despite knowing it was wrong. And as a result, you suffered - sleepless, decreased appetite - etc. That's just a natural reaction to harming others and knowing it yet still willingly choosing it.

 

yes, there was guilt. i believe i was also depressed, but that was even before the A.

 

however, any other time if i felt guilty about doing something i wouldn't do it. or i would stop as soon as i felt guilty - and that's about things that are nowhere as bad as an A.

 

i have completely disconnected from my father for having an A, and was adamantly against them. yet i ended up in one.

 

don't try and analyse me when i found it hard to do so myself.

 

i think it's quite curious that those against the idea of affair fog are either OW who ended up with their AP, or those still in affairs.

 

what i and some others are saying here doesn't take anything away from you and what you have/had. i can only wish i've taken on my A as a matter-of-fact, 'this is how it is' experience that some seem capable of; instead of ending up a complete mess.