For the last time.

[ver13]

What a tragic joke. Sorry, that's exactly what it means. Good moms don't negotiate to spend only half their time with their children...that integrity is reserved for the innocent people forced to accept this unfair situation.

 

Just because you're not an axe-murdering psychopath, physically abusive, addicted, careless, etc doesn't automatically make you a good parent. Any time a parent places their needs before the children they brought into this world (that had no choice!) that places them in the category of bad parent. It exposes them as a selfish, emotionally abusive parent setting a wrongful example. Both to the children, and to them in regards to their father.

 

Hurting the father/mother of your children means you hurt the children. This is not a dogmatic 'opinion'. It is common sense truth! Why are people so weak and permissive? Can't we recognize how this has effected society?

 

Mother's Day? Your call. Truth is, you're afraid to upset her and worse? You desire to please her. When in doubt do what's best for the kids but in regards to her 'motherhood', let her fight that battle alone. Be thankful that you do not have to worry about their physical safety when they are with her, but know this: physical wounds heal quicker and more completely that emotional wounds. See her for what she really is. You need to.

 

If you had read his post and realized that in his own words he stated that she was a Good Mom you might not have written this post. But this reaction sounds more like your own personal issues rather then the poster. He may have other things indeed going on with his EXW but if he has to use his kids and a card to get back at her he has already lost everything. When you resort to using babies to make the other one suffer you have issues. Just because she maybe doing it doesn't make it right for him to take to the same tactics. In the end it's all about the kids not the adults and if this is something that they have always done why stop it now just because of some adult drama. Throughout your entire reply you have stated all kinds of crap that the poster hasn't even eluded too...Which from casual observation has taken the post way out of context. This is about Mother's day cards not the ill's of society or the unknown content of either of thier character.

[aMguilts]

If you had read his post and realized that in his own words he stated that she was a Good Mom you might not have written this post. But this reaction sounds more like your own personal issues rather then the poster. He may have other things indeed going on with his EXW but if he has to use his kids and a card to get back at her he has already lost everything. When you resort to using babies to make the other one suffer you have issues. Just because she maybe doing it doesn't make it right for him to take to the same tactics. In the end it's all about the kids not the adults and if this is something that they have always done why stop it now just because of some adult drama. Throughout your entire reply you have stated all kinds of crap that the poster hasn't even eluded too...Which from casual observation has taken the post way out of context. This is about Mother's day cards not the ill's of society or the unknown content of either of thier character.

 

there was really no need for that

everyone has their own opinion?

 

or at least are entitled to it

next time , just post help rather than have a slate at someone elses post

 

aM

[aMguilts]

personally, i think you should apologise

 

but then that`s just my opinion:)

 

aM

[LIFE.GOES.wrONg]

I appreciate everyone's opinion, and I could argue either way.

 

I'm leaning now towards not doing anything. Reasoning goes like this: she made a choice to start a new life as a single parent. Single parents don't get cards from their kids unless they themselves take on that responsibility.

 

But, I go back and forth. My fallback is to just get a simple card at the market while shopping, have the boys sign it and give it to her.

 

I just can't bring myself to do our "traditional family thing" and have them sit down and draw a card for her - that family does not exist anymore.

[trippi1432]

LGW - at 8 and 10 years old, the children are old enough to decide if they want to draw Mom a card. It's not like you need to assist as much. Understandable you are hurting, but traditions are the things your children will learn and take into their own marriages and teach their own children.

 

I say this because right now, you are dealing with a lot of hurt, but one day that will change. For your kids, that won't. They will look back and say, ya know we used to draw mom a card for Mother's Day but I guess this is what divorce is, dark and ugly and we don't do things we kids used to do anymore....goodbye to my childhood, I had to go be an adult with my parents.

 

Look, the card isn't about you wanting to make her happy, it's not about you at all. It's about your kids and wanting to make things as "normal" for them in this new abnormal life.

[aMguilts]

LGW - at 8 and 10 years old, the children are old enough to decide if they want to draw Mom a card. It's not like you need to assist as much. Understandable you are hurting, but traditions are the things your children will learn and take into their own marriages and teach their own children.

 

I say this because right now, you are dealing with a lot of hurt, but one day that will change. For your kids, that won't. They will look back and say, ya know we used to draw mom a card for Mother's Day but I guess this is what divorce is, dark and ugly and we don't do things we kids used to do anymore....goodbye to my childhood, I had to go be an adult with my parents.

 

Look, the card isn't about you wanting to make her happy, it's not about you at all. It's about your kids and wanting to make things as "normal" for them in this new abnormal life.

 

isn`t that what i said?

aM

[aMguilts]

I appreciate everyone's opinion, and I could argue either way.

 

I'm leaning now towards not doing anything. Reasoning goes like this: she made a choice to start a new life as a single parent. Single parents don't get cards from their kids unless they themselves take on that responsibility.

 

But, I go back and forth. My fallback is to just get a simple card at the market while shopping, have the boys sign it and give it to her.

 

I just can't bring myself to do our "traditional family thing" and have them sit down and draw a card for her - that family does not exist anymore.

 

in bold

 

you couldn`t be more wrong

 

you are their dad, and she is their mum

 

NOTHING can change that

Be the best dad EVER!!

 

Be the best at everything from now on

 

i LOVE your posts

you are headstrung

you know what you want, and even if you cant have 1st place

you are smiling and at least trying:)

 

Your posts give me strength!!

 

keep your head high

 

aM

[ver13]

personally, i think you should apologise

 

but then that`s just my opinion:)

 

aM

 

Don't hold your breath the poster was out of order the purpose here is to give advice not rant on the OP thread. But if that works for you than soldier on...

[2sunny]

Thanks all. Today was really rough in the morning - separating the bank accounts, closing down the credit cards, re-routing blood flow so the operation can take place. No more joint accounts. Another pillar pulled down.

 

I noticed that her last charge was $14 at The GasLamp Friday night - a karaoke bar that was a hang-out of ours. That's 2 drinks. My mind stated racing and it killed me to think about her at one of our spots - drinking and sharing the stories of her week with someone else. I still can't listing to any music with lyrics in it and she's partying it up (at least in my mind). I wonder if what she's done even came up or is it old hat already.

 

As bad as the morning was, on the ride home from work I felt at peace. Like I traveled forward in time to a point where everything around me no longer triggered memories of my wife. It was only for a mile or two but I felt... unmarried, I guess.

 

I sit here now wondering if I should have the boys make her mother's day cards. I have been really good with the NC rule and I don't want to give her any sign of weakness in my resolve (she would know I made the boys do it). However, she is honestly an excellent mother. I'm torn.

 

Of course have the boys make her cards... She is their Mother.

 

When I separated - Xmas was a few months after - and I took my boys out shopping - they picked out gifts for Dad. We haven't been M for 8 years - but he's still their Dad... And they want to get him some gifts.

 

 

 

That first xmas we invited him over for Xmas breakfast and they exchanged gifts.

 

It was a lovely morning - much like what we always had while married for 20 years.

 

He sobbed like a baby through the whole morning.

 

I know it was the right thing to do - even though it was the last thing I would have chosen at the time. It set an easy tone for the coming years.

 

My boys still appreciate it when we go out Xmas shopping and I tell them a few weeks ahead of time to think about what they intend to give to their Dad.

 

I get flowers on Mother's Day - and I know he orders them and has them delivered.

Edited May 3, 2013 by 2sunny

[Act Two]

I think you should help your children make her a Mother's Day card. That would not be breaking NC, but helping to instill in your children a good habit in honoring their parents. It will be beneficial for them.

 

I am recently separated and made sure my STBX had presents from the kids and a card to open. I will always help them to honor him on Father's Day- he deserves it no matter what happened between us.

 

He did the same for my birthday.

[Shocked Suzie]

Of course have the boys make her cards... She is their Mother.

 

When I separated - Xmas was a few months after - and I took my boys out shopping - they picked out gifts for Dad. We haven't been M for 8 years - but he's still their Dad... And they want to get him some gifts.

 

 

 

That first xmas we invited him over for Xmas breakfast and they exchanged gifts.

 

It was a lovely morning - much like what we always had while married for 20 years.

 

He sobbed like a baby through the whole morning.

 

I know it was the right thing to do - even though it was the last thing I would have chosen at the time. It set an easy tone for the coming years.

 

My boys still appreciate it when we go out Xmas shopping and I tell them a few weeks ahead of time to think about what they intend to give to their Dad.

 

I get flowers on Mother's Day - and I know he orders them and has them delivered.

 

Its for the children at the end of the day, no one else...my Ex left us a week the first time a week before Xmas and i had him around for the kids opening of gift and Xmas lunch, was one of the hardest things i've done...but it was for the children.

[Steadfast]

Its for the children at the end of the day, no one else...my Ex left us a week the first time a week before Xmas and i had him around for the kids opening of gift and Xmas lunch, was one of the hardest things i've done...but it was for the children.

 

I do agree. I took the same advise as I gave: When in doubt, do what's best for the kids. It often is not easy. It's sometimes the hardest thing of all.

 

I was NOT out of order. I've read all of the OP's remarks on this thread. He needs to get his head clear...know exactly what he's up against. Kissing her a$$ or rewarding her for anything should not be an option. It makes things worse. That said? Be nice. No matter what. Rise above. Note that I did advise LGW to act on anything regarding his STBX's 'motherhood'.

 

OP: I know you're suffering. I know at times, your reality is worse than a nightmare. Believe me when I say the way out of the pain and suffering is to learn how to deal and accept her decision. Even if you hate it.

 

You? Your kids? The family unit? Collateral damage. Necessary for her to get what she wants...or needs. Common? Yes. The end of the world? No. But don't insult the good mothers of this world by calling her one.

[Act Two]

I do agree. I took the same advise as I gave: When in doubt, do what's best for the kids. It often is not easy. It's sometimes the hardest thing of all.

 

I was NOT out of order. I've read all of the OP's remarks on this thread. He needs to get his head clear...know exactly what he's up against. Kissing her a$$ or rewarding her for anything should not be an option. It makes things worse. That said? Be nice. No matter what. Rise above. Note that I did advise LGW to act on anything regarding his STBX's 'motherhood'.

 

OP: I know you're suffering. I know at times, your reality is worse than a nightmare. Believe me when I say the way out of the pain and suffering is to learn how to deal and accept her decision. Even if you hate it.

 

You? Your kids? The family unit? Collateral damage. Necessary for her to get what she wants...or needs. Common? Yes. The end of the world? No. But don't insult the good mothers of this world by calling her one.

 

Steadfast, typically I think you have fantastic advice, but what you are basically saying is that any parent who initiates a divorce is a bad parent.

 

That may be your belief about divorce, but I think we should all tread cautiously in handing out the "bad parent" award, especially when what we are reading (as always) is from one side only. I say that not to empathize with the OP, but to remember we don't know at all whether she is a bad mother or not.

 

I'm not sure how it helps anyone in a divorce to operate on the premise that the spouse is a bad parent, unless there is obvious reason to make that case. How can that help the kids?

 

I would focus more on detaching from your wife, OP, and doing what you are doing to focus your attention and love on your children. I am sorry for your pain and loss of your family unit as you know it. I know that pain myself.

[trippi1432]

isn`t that what i said?

aM

 

Perhaps it was Am....I just said it in my own way, my own opinion of the situation based on the OP, I really didn't read your input. I can have my own voice right? Isn't that what this forum is for?

[Mr. Lucky]

I would focus more on detaching from your wife, OP, and doing what you are doing to focus your attention and love on your children. I am sorry for your pain and loss of your family unit as you know it.

Well said. And the loss of the old family unit means the creation of a new one - you and your kids, with you helping them deal with the issues divorce brings. Mother's Day cards are about how the kids feel about their Mom, not about how you feel about your STBXW. Take the high road - in this and other interactions - and do the cards. Be the better man and the better example for your kids...

 

Mr. Lucky

[LIFE.GOES.wrONg]

After further consideration I've decided I'll have the boys do *something* for Mother's Day. To be honest I'm not happy with the idea. I sit here on a Friday night, after putting the kids down, knowing that she's out - probably dancing while I mind the life she's left behind.

Not club dancing mind you, but ballroom dancing - swing, salsa, two-step; the kind of dancing that requires connection - holding - physical touch. A different partner every song. 30+ songs a night. You do the math.

 

I can feel myself coming out of the fog into a vast emptiness. In going back over the last few years of my marriage I'm beginning to see how the strong physical attraction I have for my wife allowed me to overlook how emotionally stagnant she had become towards me.

 

I relive moments in my mind but with a new filter that allows me to decode the subtle look in her eyes that was holding me up to the light. Constantly evaluating my worthiness. I see my efforts to hold this marriage together as a tragic waste - like the slaughter of a rhino for just its horn - senseless. She was gone already.

 

I know in her mind she probably was trying to do the right thing - hoping she'd "get it back". But it pisses me off that she let herself get that far. That she couldn't have communicated it to me earlier. That she was able to put the marriage on the table in the first place. That she didn't want to work with me to help me learn how to help her get her needs met.

 

I feel hollow inside.. insufficient. I keep thinking that she left me for... nobody. That she would rather be a single, part-time mother in a small apartment, living on half of what she's been used to... than try and work it out with me.

 

I keep trying to see how I contributed to this - so I can grow into that better person I'm told I'll become. But right now, all roads seem to lead back to her.

Edited May 4, 2013 by LIFE.GOES.wrONg

[Shocked Suzie]

After further consideration I've decided I'll have the boys do *something* for Mother's Day. To be honest I'm not happy with the idea. I sit here on a Friday night, after putting the kids down, knowing that she's out - probably dancing while I mind the life she's left behind.

Not club dancing mind you, but ballroom dancing - swing, salsa, two-step; the kind of dancing that requires connection - holding - physical touch. A different partner every song. 30+ songs a night. You do the math.

 

I can feel myself coming out of the fog into a vast emptiness. In going back over the last few years of my marriage I'm beginning to see how the strong physical attraction I have for my wife allowed me to overlook how emotionally stagnant she had become towards me.

 

I relive moments in my mind but with a new filter that allows me to decode the subtle look in her eyes that was holding me up to the light. Constantly evaluating my worthiness. I see my efforts to hold this marriage together as a tragic waste - like the slaughter of a rhino for just its horn - senseless. She was gone already.

 

I know in her mind she probably was trying to do the right thing - hoping she'd "get it back". But it pisses me off that she let herself get that far. That she couldn't have communicated it to me earlier. That she was able to put the marriage on the table in the first place. That she didn't want to work with me to help me learn how to help her get her needs met.

 

I feel hollow inside.. insufficient. I keep thinking that she left me for... nobody. That she would rather be a single, part-time mother in a small apartment, living on half of what she's been used to... than try and work it out with me.

 

I keep trying to see how I contributed to this - so I can grow into that better person I'm told I'll become. But right now, all roads seem to lead back to her.

 

your words are exactly how i feel too this is one seriously crap journey and hope one day soon we all find peace and finally settle....its like living a constant nightmare. fortunately for me the damage that my Ex has done, i know there is no going back...this makes me sad, but i'm able to slowly move forward

 

SS x

[Steadfast]

I feel hollow inside.. insufficient. I keep thinking that she left me for... nobody. That she would rather be a single, part-time mother in a small apartment, living on half of what she's been used to... than try and work it out with me.

 

I can relate. Among other things was the guilt I felt for her actions. She was generally a good mom, but I remember feeling devastated when the thought came that her desire to be with someone else (or do anything else) was so strong, she'd actually sacrifice her family to make it happen.

 

To be honest, that still hurts. Even if the thought of losing her doesn't.

 

For now? Keep doing what you are doing. There is nothing more profound or noble than seeing to the obligations you took on while married to her. The focus of good and right is shining on you; not on her. Soon...someday soon, this realization will hit her like a ton. Soon...someday soon, her mind will be filled with thoughts of what you are doing. And where. Know this.

 

She may not ever want you back, and you may not want her back after all is said and done. She...everyone you know, and especially your children- will feel this way because you demonstrated strength in the face of heartbreak. This time defines who you really are. Make it count!!

[Steadfast]

Steadfast, typically I think you have fantastic advice, but what you are basically saying is that any parent who initiates a divorce is a bad parent.

 

I'm saying that any person who initiates a divorce on any grounds other than abuse or infidelity is a bad parent. The married parent who selfishly throws life in reverse after a family is established. I am saying that.

 

Sorry if the sweeping generalization offends anyone. Then again, being offended by me isn't the issue. The offended children? Another story.

 

There is nothing the OP can do to change her. This must be done by the wife. That's why I advise against any action towards her, by him. There is none to take. I'm against propping her up or living in denial about the damage her selfish actions are causing her family. Those are numerous.

 

Funny...why is being called a bad spouse so mutually embraced or understood, yet being called a bad parent so utterly offensive or judgmental? The spouse's first responsibility is towards the marriage partner; even above the children. Not understanding or not agreeing with this is the root of many problems, IMO.

[LIFE.GOES.wrONg]

For now? Keep doing what you are doing. There is nothing more profound or noble than seeing to the obligations you took on while married to her. The focus of good and right is shining on you; not on her. Soon...someday soon, this realization will hit her like a ton. Soon...someday soon, her mind will be filled with thoughts of what you are doing. And where. Know this.

 

She may not ever want you back, and you may not want her back after all is said and done. She...everyone you know, and especially your children- will feel this way because you demonstrated strength in the face of heartbreak. This time defines who you really are. Make it count!!

 

Thanks Steadfast. I needed to hear that today. And I really hope you're right. There is a big part of me that really wants her realized she's made a huge mistake. Not to come back but to have to endure some of the pain I'm going through.

 

But the truth is probably that I want some reassurance that I am worthy of love - so if she made a mistake then it was a problem with her and not me.

 

Suzie, keep moving forward. I hope one day to be in a place where I KNOW I don't want her back.

Edited May 4, 2013 by LIFE.GOES.wrONg

[Steadfast]

Thanks Steadfast. I needed to hear that today. And I really hope you're right. There is a big part of me that really wants her realized she's made a huge mistake. Not to come back but to have to endure some of the pain I'm going through.

 

Don't hunt me down and tell me I was wrong if you never see it. She'll hide any regret or unhappiness from you. Count on it. In fact, you are the last person she wants knowing anything like that. That said, very often a breaking point is reached, or the ex will suddenly want you back if/when word gets to her you're seeing someone else. That's Divorce 101.

 

I type that to tell you nobody craps all over someone else (let along a whole family...their family) and not suffer long term ramifications. It just isn't possible. Again, it will happen, but you might not see it. There's an old saying I adopted long ago, words to live by; Don't wish and wait for justice to be served. It's out of your hands. If her suffering brings you joy, what will her joy bring you? That's right, suffering.

 

That's a trap. Get your mind right now. Get yourself to the position where no matter what she does, you're mentally and emotionally strong enough to handle it. How do we do that? My accepting our faults and weaknesses, working to improve them and embracing the fact that the only person we control is ourselves. Be humble. Let it go and let her go. Just know that like any great skill, this one isn't mastered overnight. You must practice.

 

But the truth is probably that I want some reassurance that I am worthy of love - so if she made a mistake then it was a problem with her and not me.

 

You are very, very early in the process friend. Still very much in shock and probably suffering from affection withdrawal. Your head and heart are programmed to love her, and right now, both of them are lost. You must learn to re-direct that love to yourself. And from you, onto the kids.

 

Focus on the tasks at hand. Post here and keep it up. Find a close, trusted friend (or group of friends) and tell them you might need a shoulder once and awhile. It really helps to express what you're feeling verbally (or on the keyboard) so you can process it and move on. Eat healthy and walk or job regularly to help you sleep better. Learn to 'put aside' problems when it's time to work or care for the kids. Practice. Day-by-day. Or hour.

 

Not easy. OK? I get it. Don't get down if you fail. Keep trying. It'll come.

 

Finally, rest assured, The waiting list for faithful, loving adult men is far too long for the single female population. You'll be in demand. That's a fact.

[Act Two]

I'm saying that any person who initiates a divorce on any grounds other than abuse or infidelity is a bad parent. The married parent who selfishly throws life in reverse after a family is established. I am saying that.

 

Sorry if the sweeping generalization offends anyone. Then again, being offended by me isn't the issue. The offended children? Another story.

 

There is nothing the OP can do to change her. This must be done by the wife. That's why I advise against any action towards her, by him. There is none to take. I'm against propping her up or living in denial about the damage her selfish actions are causing her family. Those are numerous.

 

Funny...why is being called a bad spouse so mutually embraced or understood, yet being called a bad parent so utterly offensive or judgmental? The spouse's first responsibility is towards the marriage partner; even above the children. Not understanding or not agreeing with this is the root of many problems, IMO.

 

I'm careful about judging the path others have walked, as I have not been in anyone's marriage but my own. What appears one way on the outside about a marriage may not be the case in reality, and calling someone a bad parent without really knowing both side of the story is extreme in my opinion.

 

I don't know how it helps for someone going through a separation/divorce to paint the ex-spouse as a bad parent.

 

Again, focus on only what you can control, which is your own parenting at this point. You can still show your STBX respect which will help with co-parenting even when you are no longer married. This doesn't mean propping up the ex-spouse, but showing respect to them in front of the kids for the good of the kids.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm careful about judging the path others have walked, as I have not been in anyone's marriage but my own. What appears one way on the outside about a marriage may not be the case in reality, and calling someone a bad parent without really knowing both side of the story is extreme in my opinion.

Especially true if you've ever had close friends divorce. Talking to them, it's like they were in two different marriages. Each person see things from the limits imposed by their own perspective and interests...

 

Mr. Lucky

[cozycottagelg]

I am your wife. Not literally of course...

 

I have been wanting to tell my husband I am done with our marriage for so long, but the words just don't come out. If/when I finally do, this is exactly how he is going to feel. I have been browsing threads all day, but this one really has gotten to me.

 

I have fallen out of love. Bits of resentment have built up for years and I never said anything to him. I opened up to him last summer, and he made changes. The problem is, I was already checked out. I opened up too late. Now everyday I cry on my way to work, and my way home, and often several times throughout the day. I feel guilty all the time. I feel like he is doing everything he can to save this marriage and I have done nothing. I just don't have romantic feelings for him anymore. We still talk, we kiss goodbye and hello, but it's a habit. When he touches me outside of the day to day habits, I cringe. When he sends me a sweet text telling me I'm beautiful, I roll my eyes as I am reading. I hate myself and I never, ever wanted to be divorced.

 

I go back and forth daily wondering if not feeling "in love" is a good enough reason to leave.

 

I went back to church in hopes of gaining a new perspective. It hasn't helped my marriage. I love going but I am not using it to help my marriage.

 

I encourage him to do things with his friends so that I don't have to hang out with him.

 

He isn't a bad person. The issues that have driven me to want out, are just that, issues. Things he is trying to fix...but my heart isn't there anymore.

 

It hurt to read what one commenter said about being selfish because a mother is willing to give up half her time with the children...that killed me. Initially it made me angry, and while I don't agree that I should stay for the children, I absolutely hate that I entertain the idea of missing out on half their lives.

 

I often want to blame my age and where I am in life. We met when I was turning 21, and I am now 32. I am not that same girl anymore. Is that why? I don't know...

 

I want him to be happy, but I know that only having our family together is going to make him happy right now.

 

Everyday on my way home from work, I tell myself to go in, give him a big hug, tell him that I love him and be affectionate all night long, but then I walk through the door and I am just in survival mode until I can go to bed.

 

I feel like I am living with my brother. Someone I love and care about, but nobody that I want to be romantically involved with.

 

I wanted to be married forever. I was never happier than on my wedding day. It was his second marriage and I, at the time, considered him my soul mate. What happened to us?

 

The reason I never told him how I felt before, was because I didn't want to be a nag or a b*tch..I wanted to be the perfect wife.

 

I never made him do things with me and the kids (ages 6 and 2) because he never wanted to. I brought the kids to every event, every birthday party, everything. I got tired of always hearing "hey where's ______" and having to reply "home, watching football."

 

Now he is willing to do those things...but I don't want him there.

 

Everything I am feeling seems so out of my control. It's just that, a feeling... I can't change the way I feel.. I want to, I've tried.. I am just too far gone.

 

Everyday I search for apartments, meanwhile emailing him to see what he wants for dinner..

 

He won't be blindsided because lately I am so distant and I know he is beyond worried.

 

I realize this isn't very well written and I'm just babbling...but that's how my mind works. Just random rants. Trying to justify my behaviors all the while feeling like a failure and a giant piece of crap for letting it get this bad.

 

Listening to the soon to be ex-husbands on here has been a real eye-opener.

 

Random post...my first one on this board.. I just had to get it out I guess.

[LIFE.GOES.wrONg]

I wish I could lock this tread until I have time to reply to you cozycottagelg. Right now I'm at work, but I want to write you a response.

 

All I can now is, thank you for sharing this.