When Is a Marriage Over?

[liswil]

It seems like people are saying that I must be doing *something* wrong. True that could be but why does everyone want to put the blame there?

 

I'm definately not saying I'm perfect but I've noticed that when anyone on here talks about women acting cold, etc... everyone assumes the man must be causing it.

 

She and I have talked (I'm the one trying to communicate). It doesn't do any good. She says she will try to be more affectionate but doesn't change.

I guess I've gotten resentful but I try to maintain good relations due to the kids.

 

I think that it would be hard to get our connection back at this point. There's been no sex (or affection on her part) for a year and a half. She comes from reliigious family and I think that maybe she feels like sex is just to have kids.

[Ladyjane14]

No sex in over a year and a half and she's hasn't given you a concrete reason for that? I can't imagine that you haven't asked hey 'why'? So, what does she say?

[liswil]

Just things like too busy with the kids, not in the mood, etc... She just talks around things a lot.

[Ladyjane14]

That sounds more like excuses rather that reasons. Particularly in light of the fact that it's been so long.

 

I think if I were you, I'd ask her. Find a time when you can both sit down together, and you are both in a good mood. Don't start a discussion of that nature when either one of you is angry or upset.

 

Read jmargel's link, usually at the bottom of his posts. It has some really cool communications tips, particularly about repeating and rewording, which is a great tool to making sure that you are understanding the other person's point.

 

You can't solve a problem when you don't have any clue as to what the REAL problem is.

[izzybelle]

liswil, i apologize if any of my comments made you feel like i was saying it was your fault. it's hard to place any blame without knowing both sides of the story. but, i know, with the comments i posted about what i went through, i'm sure i came off sounding like i was blaming you like i did my ex. sorry!!!!

 

i guess what may i was trying to do was to give you what may be her perception of things. how she may be feeling, but i could be off base. i agree with ladyjane, they are more excuses than reasons. i did the same thing, i was tired, i was stressed, i was always something and i was afraid to tell him what i was really feeling for a long time which was i was no longer in love or attracted to him. please don't assume that i'm saying that's how your wife feels, but the excuses could just be the behaviors from underlying feelings that she's afraid to express or doesn't even really know exist.

 

lack of intimacy is or can be a relationship killer. i know mine damaged my relationship beyond repair. or more importantly, i guess i had no desire to repair it. we could have gone through all sorts of counseling, talked things to death, whatever and it would not have changed the way i felt.

 

i hope at some point, before it's too late, you can get her to open up. i don't honestly know if a counselor would be able to do that or not. if she's not ready to admit or address her feelings, you're going to be left guessing, as you are now. as ladyjane said... "You can't solve a problem when you don't have any clue as to what the REAL problem is."

[liswil]

That' s exactly it--she doesn't communicate. And I've tried. I think it's gotten to a point where we've grown too far apart. I don't think either of us is in love anymore and I doubt it will come back now. And it can't because she doesn't really try. I used to try but it's pointless. So, we just are like room-mates now and are there for the kids.

 

Yes, I think that lack of sex for that long kills a relationship. I guess I hoped that after awhile it come back but more and more now, I don't think that will happen.

[izzybelle]

liswil, with the lack of communication and the lack of sex you need to ask yourself (as if you haven't already)... what's left?

 

i understand that you want to be there for the kids and i know almost everyone says that it's better for the kids if you stay together, everyone except me probably. for some reason there's this impression that kids NEED both parents together under the same roof. kids NEED both parents period. and trust me, in some cases you can and do become a better parent when you're happier with your situation. you've removed yourself from the stress of a bad marriage and are capable are focusing your attention where it should be (on your kids) instead of trying to fix a hopeless situation. ok, i'm projecting on you what i went through, but i hope you get my point.

 

divorce does NOT has to be the end of the world for kids, they really do adjust. don't get me wrong... it's not an easy road for them but they can deal. several friends of mine are going through tough times and they are at the stages where their kids know something's up. i've heard things like.... "the kids cry all the time" "the kids are angry" "the kids are scared". and yes, they may be exhibiting all those behaviors and they're scared and angry because they don't know what's happening and what will happen. mine when through that too, and several years later still deal withthings from time to time but all things considered are incredibly well adjusted kids (yes, i'm just a little biased, but i couldn't ask for better kids). i watch my friend's kids who are trying to stay together for the kids and have to ask myself whether it's really better to leave their kids like that in limbo indefinitely.

 

not to be disgusting but sometimes the state of a marriage can be like an open sore. everything around it is infected and it can spread if it's not dealt with. putting a band aid on it and pretending it's not there doesn't help the healing process. and to some extent, your wife not talking about things does just that. she doesn't want to acknowledge and / or deal with what's happening. there's a band aid on it, called the kids, and for as long as it's there it's hidden from the rest of the world. forcing her, if you can, to pull that bandage off is going to be an incredibly painful process. if not over time it will just continue to get worse....

[Ladyjane14]

Izzy makes some very fine points. Afterall, the marriage is the foundation upon which the family is built. And when both partners are in good health, there just isn't a good excuse for the marriage to become non-sexual. The foundation crumbles.

 

That said, I do believe that when children are involved, every effort should be made to save the relationship. Every possibility should be exhausted.

 

I've spent a good deal of time thinking about this problem. There are lots of folks here who are dealing with it. And I think sexual avoidance happens with quite alot of women at one point or another in a lengthly marriage. I'm in my early 40's and have been married over 20 years. I don't personally know any other women similar to me who haven't experienced it at one time or another. And I know I have.

 

A year and a half is way out of line though.

 

Here are some reasons that I think a woman might avoid sex:

 

Resentment - It's more difficult than a man might imagine for a woman to be intimate with a man that she is bone-deep angry with. She might go through the motions just to shut him up, but she is in no ways turned on by him.

 

If he's been an a-hole all week and then wants to get it on by Sat. night, she's thinking he's still an a-hole no matter how sweet he's trying to be at the moment. She knows that at this point he's just trying to get some and will be an a-hole again tomorrow. (Or in fifteen minutes if she turns him down.)

 

At that point, she feels devalued. All that she is, all that she has learned, and all that she has to offer in life is reduced to being an insensate vagina for his use.

 

Personal Hygiene - He's got to be clean, with fresh breath. ('Nuff said.)

 

Poor Sexual Performance - When a man begins sexual intercourse, he knows that he is going to reach fulfillment. No such luck for the ladies. Once it's over for him, it's usually over for her. If she's been worked up into a heightened state of arousal, believe me when I say, a cold shower is not enough to cool her temper! If you're a guy, please imagine for a moment getting almost there, and then....she's done with you. It probably wouldn't take too many times for that to happen before you didn't want to go to bed either!

 

But she's probably not going to complain. Women know that men have alot of their masculine ego attached to their sexual performance. And she also knows that complaints will worsen the problem by making him less confident. Further, most love their guy to much to do that to him.

 

(This is sooooooooo fixable, btw. Buy some books. Buy some toys. Whatever you have to do to make sure that woman is wearing a sloppy grin all day the next day!!! )

 

Medical Problems - Chronic Fatigue, hormonal imbalance, dyspareunia (painful intercourse); there's just a host of things that could be affecting her body.

 

Psychological Problems - Depression, anxiety, fear of pregnancy, psychological trauma; again a host of things that could be wrong here.

 

There are lots of legitimate reasons why a woman might avoid sex. The trick is that you have to get her to tell you what they are. You shouldn't be accepting vague excuses though. This is a serious problem that affects your ability to remain together as a family.

 

The good news is that in most cases when a woman won't tell you what her legitimate reasons are, it means that she cares enough for you not to want to hurt your feelings. She wouldn't give a rat's patootie about hurting your ego if she didn't care at least something for you.

 

But in the case of medical and psychological problems, she truly may not know herself what is wrong. That', however, is something that can be dealt with as well.

 

The important part here is that you need to decide if you can really bear up with the whole truth. If you tell her that she can tell you ANYTHING and you won't be offended. You better mean it! She might tell you that you're a rotten kisser, or that she's been faking orgasm for 10 years because you're such a crappy lover. It could be anything!!!

 

And you may have to dig a little. Ask her some leading questions. Don't be a victim about it, and don't act out in anger. It's in everyone's best interest to identify the problem. Remember, you do your entire family a disservice by letting your dissatisfaction grow until the family is torn apart.

[liswil]

I think that the main reason I stay is that my son has some emotional problems as he's entering his teens and is in counseling. When he heard us mention divorce, he got a lot worse. That's what makes it really hard to end things.

 

We get along together ok and spend time together. We do things together as a family. But it's more like she and I are just friends.

[izzybelle]

liswil, it definitely does complicate things if your son has some emotional problems. but unfortunately it doesn't make your life as happy as you deserve.

 

a friend of mine went through a similar situation, his son has some major emotional problems, and as long as he was in counseling and taking his meds he was fine. the diff in my friend's situation was that he, his wife and son would end up in a triangle on everything, they couldn't work together on even the smallest thing and his son really began manipulating everything. hard to say if the divorce made it worse or not. more than likely did since it was a messy somewhat bitter one. it sounds, however, like your relationship is cordial, just not affectionate. that's sad, but, and this is one of the few times i'll probably say this here, i understand why you're staying for your son.

 

my son's 13 and it's a trying age even under the best circumstances! my heart goes out to you hopefully someday you'll either be able to work things out or get to a point with your son that you can leave knowing that he'll be ok and you've tried everything to help him and your marriage.

[liswil]

I'm not really sure I'll continue to stay. I go back and forth on what to do.

[izzybelle]

indecision is a killer. i remember those days well. i'd wake up in the morning feeling one way and go to sleep at night feeling the opposite. i felt like i just needed to make a decision and stick to it but i was afraid. and i kept getting caught in the cycle of what ifs. and that was making me crazy and at one point before i started counseling, i really thought i was headed toward a breakdown of sorts. it took getting to that point before i could decide.

 

one thing my friend did that i think helped him with his son was that he and his wife requested to meet with his counselor without him there to talk to the counselor about how to best handle the situation of telling him about the divorce. i don't remember if it helped much or not but on some levels they did try to minimize the damage, at least at the beginning. then the divorce started and the gloves came off and i think they tried to hide it from him, but i don't think they were very successful

 

could he be picking up on your stress level anyway? sometimes we don't give kids enough credit for being perceptive enough to know what's going on even if nobody says anything and if nobody's openly talking about it they internalize it and make things worse for themselves. my son clams up about things, partly the age i think, and it's like pulling teeth to get him to talk about anything. he's so afraid of hurting someone's feelings that he just says nothing, until i get him mad, then he'll let me have it. and yes, i've used that tactic with him on several occasions to get things out of him. i hate doing it but, it works.

[liswil]

I separately talked once to a counselor that was treating my son about divorce. He told me that he think it would cause a lot of damage to him and possibly make him suicidal.

[izzybelle]

geez.....that makes things even more complicated as if they weren't already! does the counseling seem to be helping him some anyway? i'm a counselor, but it's definitely not my area of expertise.

 

does your wife know about your conversation with the counselor? you may have said before, but how old is he? my friends son is defiant to the point of destructive and depressed but i don't think they were ever concerned that he'd become suicidal. it's hard when you love someone as much as you love your kids and know that you can't do everything you want to to help them. and then add your own happiness on top of it and, i know i don't need to tell you how that must make you feel.

 

you must be an incredible strong person to be able to have dealt with this for as long as you have. they always say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger but i know there have been times when i've wanted to curl up and just have someone make the decisions for me. in some ways i think that's what i did with my husband. i thought if i made him miserable enough by not being intimate that he'd leave or give me a "better" reason to leave, meaning that he'd find someone else. which he did, but by that point i'd gained my strength back and made my decision.

[liswil]

My son is almost 13.

 

What decision did you end up making in yours?

[izzybelle]

i left. and it definitely was the best thing i've ever done and probably ended up being better for my kids in the long run. i was so unhappy it was effecting every area of my life. my counselor had encouraged me to not make the decision when i did because i was trying to deal with the fact that i had cancer and a number of other issues. but i suppose the one thing the counseling did for me was make me realize that i had to be responsible for my own happiness. i'd spent too much time letting things happen to me. i say that but i'm sure if you asked my friends they never would describe me as someone who sat by and let things happened. especially those who know me now!

 

but even though i was concerned about my kids and how they'd react, i knew they would be fine. i didn't have the other concerns that you're facing. my worst fear was how it would effect them in school, but it didn't and both of them have a lot of friends so i think it's safe to say the damage was minimal. it's always hard to say what will happen later in their lives but so far so good. mine were 8 and 10 when we started the process they're now 11 and 13.

[confusedkat]

I have read some of the postings here. I can really relate to some of this.

 

I have been married 8 years this coming Monday. If you look at all the peripherals of my life...my children, age 7 and 5, my home, families, community involvement, finances, friends....life is good. Even my husband, now, is doing all he can to be what I need and want. So....why am I so empty and trying to make the monumental decision that will effect 4 lives so profoundly? I have felt so empty and numb. My husband was not very emotional available during the first years of our marriage, which included the birth of our older child and some family deaths. As time went by, I learned to be more emotionally self reliant. I stopped needing him. Then, he decided he was ready to be there, emotionally, in our marriage. So, here I sit, after years of denying my emptiness and unhappiness, contemplating the biggest decision of my life. And I feel like I am on the verge of an emotional break down. I am so scared I will choose the wrong thing, hurt my husband, and ultimately and most importantly, do the wrong thing for my children...and maybe myself. I have never had an affair, but have turned outside of our marriage twice for the emotional support I wasn't getting at home. Am I wrong for thinking there has to be more to life? Or am I just selfish and don't know how to work at a marriage. My father says there is not one good reason for me to leave. Nothing tangible. But then, why does the intangible dominate so much of the way I feel. Would I be just as unhappy without him as I am with him. There has been no physical attraction for years. I don't like to kiss him and have stopped kissing completely, even when we are intimate (which feels like I am selling my soul whenever I do it). Both my parents are twice divorced. I am so scared of failing, and being judged by them and my sister. The worst place I have ever been is the place called "indecision". And to make matetrs worse, I don't work, so the financial end scares me. I went to college and am capable of getting a job, but I just don't know what is right. The worst thing in life to me is to hurt other people. Most of my life I have put myself last to prevent hurting anyone. The emotional responsibility is immense. I can really relate to what Izzybelle wrote. And please, if you have any advice, I could really use some.

 

To confuse matters more, a very, very close friend of mine (male), has said, so that I can make a decision, he can't be my emotional crutch anymore. I was getting what I needed from him emotionally, and then living the rest of my life with my husband. I agree with my friend, although the loss I feel from the closeness I had with him is clouding my mind right now. My instincts tell me to get over my loss before I can make a good and right decision about my marriage. I know that I should try everything I can...for my children. But with if my desire to try is gone. I hate to even write that, because I should be trying harder for them. I feel like even if I went to counseling with him that my heart really wouldn't be in it. Has anyone ever been at this point and made it work...or not?

[findinmyway]

I have been at this point and still am. My H and I divorced three years ago. We moved back in together in January at an attempt to reconcile. We have two children and the guilt was immensful. I have felt all of the exact same feelings you have, for the exact same reasons. And, still, I cannot regain feelings for him. My situation is a little different in that more has happened between us, especially since we have been apart the past couple of years.

 

It has come to the point that my H told me he doesn't want to stay if I can't give him what he needs, including sexually. I told him I cannot lie to him any longer just for the sake of staying together for our children. I told him I can remain with him and raise our children. If I am with him outside of that, it will be out of obligation.

 

I have honestly tried many, many things to regain feelings for him. It hasn't worked. I have read a couple of instances on LS where people have regained feelings, LadyJane is one--and her story is the most inspirational to me. She is a good role model to reference in your situation. I would confer with her if I were you. Because, you have a long road ahead of you no matter what you decide. I def would have handled things differently. You may not see it now, but you are still in a good position to make your marriage work. And, I commend you for not committing adultry (even though emotional involvements are affairs also).

 

On the other hand, even though I haven't been able to save my marriage, I am a new person after all of this. And, I am actually beginning to look forward to my future. I know some things in my life will be more difficult. But, I also know some things in my life will be better.

[confusedkat]

Yes, there is a lot more to my story also. And no, I didn't cheat, as hard as that was. See, I know it was an emotional affair, because I feel like a lovesick teenager that broke up with her high school sweet heart. I know I can't make a decision in the condition I am in now.

 

Like I said, my husband is good and decent. But he hasn't always been. When we first started dating, I got pregnant. I considered having the baby, but my husband, then boyfriend, pretty much said he would have nothing to do with the baby. I chose to abort, and he paid for it. He took me to the clinic, stayed while they did the procedure, and then took me home. Worst part was that as I was resting he called his friends and made plans to leave momentarily, to go hang out. He pretty much left me to deal with my emotions. I was a different person then, young, not a lot of self esteem. I led him to believe the way he treated me was okay and continued to see him. After a year of dating, I told him I loved him. He promptly got out of my bed, said he couldn't tell me he loved me, although he had been sleeping with me for a year. We broke up for a week and then got back together. We spent the next year together and he proposed. He was the first financially repsonsible guy I had been with. Stable and responsible, everything I never had. I married him and got pregnant accidentaly on our honeymoon. Yeah, I know, I should have known better, but the condom broke the first time and on our honeymoon, I don't knw what happened.

 

He was so upset that this would ruin our financial plans since we both had good jobs and promising careers and low bills that he was emotionally nonexistent. When I was 8 months pregnant, I found out he had a friend in New Jersey that he kept hidden from me. He would talk to her somewhat frequently and I think met up with her a few times, although he claims nothing happened. There were sparks between them before we had started dating. I forgave him and we moved on. He remained emotionally gone from me over the years. Last year, I turned to a male friend. Never got physical, but I realize it was an emotional affair. I dare say that we feel in love, I think. Anyway, he is very noble and good and as painful as it is, we both determined this is not healthy for either of us. My husband found some emails and the guitl about killed me and I did everything I coould to ease my husband's pain and anger. He actually spied on my emails for a couple months, printed them out and put me on trial, addressing each conversation and what it meant. A couple months later (this past August), I came across an email from another secret friend of his. This time, a girl in Alabama. They had worked together and were corresponding for the past year or two....the same time he chastised me for what I did.

 

Final thing, my husband recreationally smokes pot. Funny, executive business guy, but likes to get high from time to time. Used to be daily. But now just every couple weeks. So, after I had our first child, I asked him to stop. He didn't. I finally asked him, "Aren't I more important than a high"?. He told me he couldn't answer that. So, when I found his last email friendship, bikini pics included, he out of the blue said he knew that the dope was always an issue and as a show of faith, he would stop. He has done it about 2 or 3 times in the past month.

 

Now, he is doing everything he can to be a good husband. He wants to save our marriage more than anything. And, on one hand, I feel guilty that I should be giving him that opportunity, but then, how many times do I let him make me feel so unimportant? Matters all complicated by my family thinking he is such a great guy, I would be making a huge mistake to leave him.

 

Does that change any of your advice? Not asking sarcastically, just really needing to know if I am wrong in how I feel. I feel sick to my stomach all the time and I know how hard he is trying and ideally would like to keep my family intact, but don't know if I can ever be happy with him. Maybe I can. I just don't know.

[findinmyway]

Does that change any of your advice? Not asking sarcastically, just really needing to know if I am wrong in how I feel. I feel sick to my stomach all the time and I know how hard he is trying and ideally would like to keep my family intact, but don't know if I can ever be happy with him. Maybe I can. I just don't know.

 

That is such a hard one. Look at my situation for example. When my H found out about my affair, he was the first to admit that "it was his fault". I don't believe that and neither does he now, in that there is no excuse for an affair. However, we know that we both contributed to our marriage ending. He didn't do some of the things your H did, but I don't think you can judge if one person is more wrong than another. The point is--it takes two. And, I don't think there are any marriage that are perfect, where either partner is without blame. The important thing is whether or not your Husband is genuinly trying now. It sounds like he is.

 

I don't think what happened in the past matters as far at the blame game goes, but I think it does affect how you feel about him today. You have tangible reasons to explain why you have a lack of emotion for your H, from some of the things he did to you. I really don't have that. My H has always been a good person, husband and father. He has been guilty of neglecting me at times and putting work first. However, he wasn't aware of what he was doing. He was ignorant in many ways of the needs for a woman, mostly because of how he was raised. But, that's it. That's all I have to go by when I say "I just can't be happy with him".

 

He is a wonderful person, but sometimes I think we made a mistake when we married. After two wonderful children, it was all worth it. But, fundamentally, I think we would have been better off with different people. That is the only explanation I have for just not being attracted to him that way...not feeling any sort of emotional connection with him. He is a very good catch, I'm sure many other women would love the chance to be with him. But, try as I may, I cannot make it be there for us.

 

Perhaps your feelings will pass, maybe it's hormonal, maybe it's conditional on what he has or hasn't done and it could change if his actions change.

 

Maybe this will help....I stayed in a state of confusion, not knowing if I could make feelings for him magically appear, because I wanted to so badly. I wanted to for our children and the bright future we could have together. Until I could honestly say "I would rather spend the rest of my life alone than to remain married to him".

[confusedkat]

All of that being said, what I wrote and what you did, I guess I need to decide for myself just what I am willing to sacrafice. I hope and pray that I I can feel something again, and as I said, much of what I am feeling is clouded even more by my trying to cope with losing the person I was so emotionally dependent on. So, I know that if I give that some time, I can think more clearly. I need to make a decision not based on the feelings I have for someone else. And they are there. But, I would never be able todeal with the guilt, even though I know the problems existed before I met the other person. So, big thing, is, when I try to decide, am I ready to be alone, because that is what it will amount to. For me, I need to know that this is what I truly want. And that if I decide leaving is best, that I do it alone. Because I know I will be no good to another person unless I heal. I don't want to hurt my husband, but if it weren't for the kids, I would not still be here. But he is a good father, and is trying to be a good husband. Sometimes I just wonder if you can really ever regain feelings. On one hand I feel like this is not something I need to decide urgently, but then I think, am I just delaying the inevitable? It's so much harder with children. But I guess if this takes a couple years to resolve, at least I can say I put my efforts into it and maybe relieve some of the guilt if it ends. I just don't know. I just know that I feel nothing romantically for my husband. I feel like I have one life to live, should I be selling my soul and pretending. Living a lie? Or, do I just expect too much from life. Maybe I should just be happy with what I have and if he can't speak to my soul or understand who I really am, does he really need to?

[izzybelle]

confusedkat, i'm so, so sorry you're going through what you're going through and yes, as you know i've been there.

 

i hated living a lie, putting on my "happy" face when i walked in the door every night. eventually after a few years, i was unable to do that. and i, like you, turned to someone else for emotional support. and he eventually "cut me off" like your's did. he did stick it through until my divorce was final but then decided that i could deal on my own and he didn't need to be there for me. boy did that pis* me off! we had been what i considered good friends. he was the person who gave me the emotional support to fight my cancer, then he went through a messy divorce (his wife left him for someone else), then my divorce, then he decided he was done. we had so many arguments about what it meant to be friends and finally came to the conclusion that we were at an impass. we're still "friends" but it's on his terms.

 

you had also mentioned about not wanting to kiss your husband, wow!!!! been there done that too! aside from the fact that he was a lousy kisser, yuk!!! i just didn't want to kiss him anymore. we still had sex but it was empty and hollow. i vivdly remeber watching Pretty Woman one day and listening to julia roberts character say that she didn't kiss because it was too intimate. i almost feel off my chair because that was exactly the way i felt. of course then i felt like some ho who was just having sex for the sake of sex. with as gratifying as it was, i should have at least been getting paid for it! i wasn't attracted to him and felt like i was having sex out of obligation. what a life! tried to regain that, convince myself that it really wasn't so bad and for about a minute and a half i felt that way. but out of a given month that was probably far less than 15 minutes of time......

 

the decision is so, so hard to make and it's so easy to get stuck in the quagmire you're in. it's like being in quick sand up to your armpits and not feeling like there's anyone to pull you out. so you just keep sinking further and further. i tried, i'm sure he didn't see it that way, to get the feelings back. we bought a new house, moved to a new neighborhood, tried to start fresh. i went to counseling but it didn't help the marriage. it made me feel better about myself and stronger but the feelings didn't come back and eventually things got so bad, i left, and never looked back. no regrets.

 

please don't take this as my saying there's no hope for you and your husband. i obviously don't know that. my crystal ball is on the fritz, but then again if it had been working i probably wouldn't have gotten involved with my exMM! time to take it to the shop....leaving things up to chance is way too difficult. my point in saying all of that is that your future is in your hands, it's up to you to fight for your marriage or throw in the towel. everyone told me my marriage was perfect... little did they know. we're both good looking, we had beautiful kids, a boy first and then a girl (got so many comments on how that made it even more perfect), we were both working our way up in our careers (mine had actually been put on hold so he could advace his... grrrrrr, no thank yous for that or acknowledgements, yeah i'm still a little bitter about that one). but i got so tired of it all. and EVERYONE thought he was perfect. how could i give up someone who was that good looking and that wonderful? well truth was, i could no longer see him as attractive all i saw were things that made me angry and made me feel awful about myself. and i sure as heck didn't think he was all that wonderful.

 

to thine own self be true.... i know that's open for interpretation, but.... you need to be true to yourself. life is way too short to be living a lie. i don't remember if you said you're in counseling together or sep? even though i'm a counselor, or perhaps because of it, i know it's limitations. if you're not seeking help, i would. and i'd suggest going on your own if you're not. bottom line is that whatever you decide you will need to be comfortable with it and own the decision. divorce is obviously not to be taken lightly the costs emotionally, psychologically and financially are high and i do sincerely hope that you can find some way to regain your love and passion. but if you can't, don't be afraid. people will argue with you, tell you that you didn't try everything, that you're giving up everything..... that is why you'll need to "own" your decision. you'll need to be able to look them in the face and simply state "i had to do it" and hold your head high. takes a lot of courage, but if it comes to that, i have no doubt that you'll be able to make it through, perhaps not completely in one piece but you'll be able to put things back together for you and your kids. and so will he.

[confusedkat]

I guess I know in my heart that my friend, we'll call him "B", did a noble and honorable thing. In my situation, I need to make the decision without anyone out there for me. I mean, "B" had actually fallen in love with me, and while I do feel he pursued me intimately (not physically, but again emotionally), and I shyed away from the intimacy for awhile, I in turn started to have strong feelings for him. So, that being said, I know I can't make a clear decision with him in my life. And, I know that if I decided to leave my husband, "B" would support me in every way. So that part is the loss I am dealing with. I made a confusing situation worse because before I can come to a decision about my marriage, I now need to mourn the loss of "B" and deal with that first.

 

As for my husband. Ideally, I would like to make it work. Like Izzybelle, I really believe I don't feel anything any more. And likewise, most people believe we really are a great couple. And as I said, the peripheral things are great. I look out my window at the brand new homes (we just built ours last year). The manicured lawns, the young families. I am fortunate that I can be home with my kids almost full time. They have many friends here, we have many friends, my husband is successful, social, kind, and good. I also have the "perfect" life. A 7 year old boy and an almost 5 year old girl. And, while I may be a little biased, yes, they are beautiful and my husband and I look like siblings ourselves. We are young, fortunate to have what we have, and have been married for 8 years next week. And yes, he is a good man. A very good man. So why can't I feel anything for him? I guess I know in my heart that it is gone, but I have that glimmer of hope for this to work out. I know logically that my children will overcome divorce....I did. I just have a hard time justifying divroce to anyone, and sometimes even myself. I mean, I can't even hardly put into words what is wrong....just that I don't feel anything for him anymore. And while soem people can live like that, and I don't judge anyone, really, I have a very hard time living a lie. When I don't dwell on myself, when I just spend time with the kids, chat with my neioghbor for a couple hours, live my life, I guess, I can feel okay. But if I for one second start to think about my marriage and my husband, I feel empty and hollow. And I do take my share of responsibility. I really did misrepresent who I was when I married him. Being a good man, the first responsible guy I dated, I morphed into his life. Well, I turned 35 this year, and I think I realized who I am. And now I don't know if who I am now, can fit into this life. But again, I struggle with the why? Why am I not happy. Because I need to be so sure that it is not something completely seperate from my husband. Because to make that decision, to change our lives so drastically, I need to know this ins't something about me that I need to address. But still, I go back to not feeling any love anymore. I care about him, but I don't feel love anymore. If it weren't for my children, I would have left before. And everyone sees this great life, and I guess it is, but for some unknown reason, maybe from our past, or some of the problems of the present, or maybe something just within myself, I am not happy with him.

 

So I heal from my loss last week, of my close friend. Who says he will always love me but that we both deserve more than what was happening between us. He wanted to stop what was happening between us before we turned soemthing good into a reason to start disrespecting each other if it went too far. He says I need to determine if I can get from my marriage what I need, independent of what I was getting from him, because he really was supplementing my marriage with what it was lacking. The understanding of who I am. And I truly beleive he is correct in that there is a right way to do things, and this is the right thing so that I can make a decision. So, I actually thank him for releasing me, as painful as it is. So, until I heal from that, I can't decide where to go with my marriage.

 

Izzybelle, thank you for your thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time for me. I really can relate to what you wrote in so many ways. I hope I can do what is really right and best for my children.

[confusedkat]

Hi, I wanted to thank you also for offering your story and support. I think I enabled my pm, so I should be ready to get private messages if you still want to share. I do feel like I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I have not been very available to my children emotionally this week and feel pretty guilty about that. So, I may dissappear for a day or so from this sight, to just regain some stregnth to cope. My husband and I are actually going on our annual anniversary trip for a long weekend. Hoping to talk. Any advice is appreciated, although sometimes I do get overwhelmed. But I really am looking for all different perspectives. Almost everyone I know, with the exception of my best girlfriend and a couple other close friends, is telling me I should work this out, especially for the children. To be very cautious before I make a decision that I very well may regret. Is there ever a time that you should give up, even if you can't find a tangible reason? Another friend just suggested therapy for myself. I think I am goign to talk to a counselor. I was truly on the edge yesterday. I felt like I was about to lose my mind. My head is spinning. Anyway, I enable my pm, so if you still want to share your story, I would very much like to hear it. Thanks to everyone for posting their thoughts. It really does help to talk to other people that don't have any emotional interest vested in what I do. Maybe I can get a fresh perspective.

[Ladyjane14]

I tried to PM you, but it's still not working. You might you the 'Contact Us' option and see if the administrator can help you. And we'll just beg pardon of Liswil for taking up space on his thread.

 

If it helps you to know it, I felt almost the exact same way when I was 35. My kids were small, my marriage was unhappy (also for reasons that I just couldn't quite put my finger on). I felt like all the aspirations for my own life, and the dreams I carried with me, well past girlhood, were slipping away. Time was running out, and MY LIFE was only going to make a difference in the microcosm of my own home. I was just a mother and a wife. I felt like I'd never contribute anything bigger than that - and it just didn't seem like enough.

 

35 is weird age like that. I watched my mild-mannered sister go from a woman who was basically content to live the wife and mother role, blossom into a self-made entreprenuer who takes no sh*t from ANYONE. There were LOTS of growing pains in the process. My evolution wasn't nearly so clear-cut. I had alot more angst about the whole thing.

 

For one thing, my sister's husband is the non-confrontational type, a type B personality that makes you want to check for a pulse now and then. My husband is the VERY confrontational type, so we were fighting ALOT. He feels guilt keenly, I don't know why. But to see me so unhappy made him feel like HE was doing something wrong, when all the while these were MY issues. He gets defensive when he feels guilty, and since he's a guy - well the best defense is a good offense!

 

So, I'm already unhappy and feeling sorry for myself, and then of course p*ssed off that this fat-headed man is just making EVERYTHING worse. I wanted out, and that was almost 10 years ago!!! I said the exact same thing, "if it weren't for these kids....".

 

The important part of that whole story is that this went on for a loooooong time. By the time we had the crisis in our marriage this past spring, we're talking about an emotionally dead marriage that had been going on almost a decade. Both of us stubbornly staying in it for the kids, and neither one of finding ENOUGH fault with the other to justify breaking apart the family.

 

I have to believe that if we can do it for that long, and still be able to reinvigorate our marriage, that LOTS of people can do it. We're not so special or different from other folks, and we were a mess!

 

(have to go for a few. will continue later........)