Passionless marriage

[xxoo]

I'll give you a tip: the most lustful behaviors come out of me between the time of arousal and orgasm. Before arousal, no. After orgasm--eh (until it builds up again). Those minutes when arousal is high but orgasm is not yet achieved--that's the magic moment. That's when to pull back and ask her to show you how much she wants it. If you want to see passion, try that.

[Mr. Lucky]

i got a BJ on Friday and sex on Sunday

I think something out of the ordinary is in line, maybe a spa date, which is something i've always wanted to do but never have. Dinner and drinks is the norm so i don't think that will work.

You seem to have a somewhat transactional view of intimacy and I'd guess that sex is the "currency" in your relationship. Not an unusual POV for guys but one which I don't think most women share...

 

Mr. Lucky

[STEVE0158]

WOW, you guys were busy the few hours i was gone.

 

As far as therapy goes, although i've mentioned it, i really don't want to start with it, for me it's a last resort, committing to a therapy session weekly or every other week, i think it's a bit premature at this point. Not to mention we tried marriage counseling w/ my first marriage, this therapist was horrible, she accused me of cheating although i told her i wasn't (and i really wasn't), turns out my ex was lol...

 

As far as romancing and seduction, maybe it didn't show through in my posts but i think we have a pretty good grasp on it, we play some games here and there, little make-out sessions on the couch, massages, kissing her neck, her kissing my chest etc. When we have time we play card games and we bet shot and sexual favors. Even as far as her being into me, i know she is, she checks me out and feels me up once in a while, she checks my definition being ive been working out.

 

despite the sex issues, my wife is truly the best thing to happen to me, we have a very loving, caring relationship. We truly are friends. maybe it is her pill but the biggest problem is she doesn't desire sex the way i do and she's easily distracted from it. I do go off on tangents some time which i am now realizing and working on, i would do anything for her, divorce is the furthest thing from my mind at this time. a few months back we had an argument, for the sake of NOT continuing the argument i told her i was going to sleep by my Mom's house, she went bananas crying and carrying on beggin me not to go because we are a family, she's probably the sweetest woman i've ever met in my life. If the sex was the way i want it i would say it's a perfect marriage. honestly.

 

now i realize i went to deep w/ the texts, i was trying to do good and once again made an ass out of myself but honestly she does that a lot. she gets weird if i'm telling anything sexual through text and after a few she changes the subject....

 

At the end of the day we all have problems in our marriages, no one is perfect, i truly thank you guys for all your assistance, this is my first time posting on this board and it's been enlightening to say the least. As i went back and reread some of the things i wrote i actually realized that i'm an ******* in a lot of ways...lol....at least i can admit it.

[STEVE0158]

I'll give you a tip: the most lustful behaviors come out of me between the time of arousal and orgasm. Before arousal, no. After orgasm--eh (until it builds up again). Those minutes when arousal is high but orgasm is not yet achieved--that's the magic moment. That's when to pull back and ask her to show you how much she wants it. If you want to see passion, try that.

 

That's saturday's plan, if we have a few drinks and wind up getting busy, i am going to def do that.....i'm looking fwd to it...

[xxoo]

honestly she does that a lot. she gets weird if i'm telling anything sexual through text and after a few she changes the subject....

 

It sounds like she doesn't like it, so why keep doing it? People had satisfying sexual relationships for hundreds of years before text!

 

If she is somewhere away from you--completely unaroused--why do you think your sexual texts would be enjoyable to her? I get that YOU are horny when you send them, but try to empathize here and understand that the recipient may be in a completely different state of mind.

 

If you want to "sext", you could suggest a game of that in different rooms as foreplay, after the workday and over a glass of wine. There is a time and place for everything.

[hotgurl]

It sounds like she doesn't like it, so why keep doing it? People had satisfying sexual relationships for hundreds of years before text!

 

If she is somewhere away from you--completely unaroused--why do you think your sexual texts would be enjoyable to her? I get that YOU are horny when you send them, but try to empathize here and understand that the recipient may be in a completely different state of mind.

 

If you want to "sext", you could suggest a game of that in different rooms as foreplay, after the workday and over a glass of wine. There is a time and place for everything.

 

especially if she is at work. I like sexting but my husband not so much plus he works at a school so really, it is inappropriate.

 

I agree with XXOO next time you guys are having sex don't bring her to completion orally wait until intercourse for that.

[STEVE0158]

Ok well lets see what this weekend brings, her and i drove to work together this morning. We had a brief conversation where i star\ted that i will not be annoying her to sext or have sex. Again, rather than have her be part of the conversation, she just said "why, are you going to start cheating on me now?" i said "no, i just don't want to be an annoyance to you and i want you to enjoy it when it's done." that was the end of convo.

 

i know this is a work in progress and i'm in it for the long haul, but i'm curious what if being i'm letting her ultimately decide when sex occurs it turns into once a month sex for me?, i don't care if its the best sex i ever had, i cant handle sex only once a month.

 

We went to bed last night, she had her head on my chest, i rubbed her back and we went to sleep, i didn't put her hand between my legs or my hand between hers, we kissed a few times, no tongue and i left it at that. it's been 2 weeks, I would've loved a little "sugar"......

 

Chances are, tomorrow night, but i wont initiate it, i promise.

[STEVE0158]

Saying you're going to leave the house and go stay with your mom because of a fight is a big deal.

 

understood, the reason for the fight was because i brought home a small dog that was going to be put to sleep. She was pissed about the dog because my wife is a neat freak. I told her the dog was there temporary so we could find it a home. it was a ****zu so it would've found a home fast. The point of me saying i was leaving was so i can take the dog out of the house to make her happy.

[xxoo]

Why aren't you initiating?

 

I think you need to examine the difference between initiating and annoying. Probably best to ask her the difference, from her perspective, rather than making assumptions.

[LeGenDary_Man]

Ok well lets see what this weekend brings, her and i drove to work together this morning. We had a brief conversation where i star\ted that i will not be annoying her to sext or have sex. Again, rather than have her be part of the conversation, she just said "why, are you going to start cheating on me now?" i said "no, i just don't want to be an annoyance to you and i want you to enjoy it when it's done." that was the end of convo.

NOTE:

 

1. Don't start these conversations again and again, specially when outside home. Don't give her the impression that you are choosing to shift to "passive stance" in the context of romance component in your marriage. Be bold but accommodating.

 

2. Learn to spice-up your conversation skills.

 

As an example: "No, I love you too much. I would never do such a thing. I strongly value your comfort, input and feelings. If you have any input/suggestion concerning our sexual needs, never hesitate to share with me."

 

With the bold(ed) part of the statement in quotes above, you give your wife the impetus to share her perceptions concerning her sexual needs with you without hesitancy.

 

I know that it is sometimes difficult to come-up with intelligent responses right on the spot. However, pondering over these things in free-time can improve your chances at saying something intelligent at the right spot.

 

3. Instead of "sexting" her when she is at her workplace, you can send her a text message such as "Can't wait for you to get back home. I love you, my dear wife" or something on the similar lines. If you have decided to be intimate with your wife at home at one night, you can replace the word "dear" with "sexy" in the aforementioned text. These are subtle hints.

 

i know this is a work in progress and i'm in it for the long haul, but i'm curious what if being i'm letting her ultimately decide when sex occurs it turns into once a month sex for me?, i don't care if its the best sex i ever had, i cant handle sex only once a month.

We are not advising you to give your wife full authority in your romantic relationship with her. Please don't be passive but take charge by being "romantic." Yes, don't be too pushy about it. Exercise some degree of patience and self-control.

 

Your wife is the "shy-type" and she (possibly) expects you to take charge of the romance component of your marriage. Don't give her the impression that you are shifting to "passive mode" in this aspect. She may feel guilty about this.

 

Remember: Your objective should be to "emotionally bond" with your wife; not guilt/shame her in to be intimate with you.

 

We went to bed last night, she had her head on my chest, i rubbed her back and we went to sleep, i didn't put her hand between my legs or my hand between hers, we kissed a few times, no tongue and i left it at that. it's been 2 weeks, I would've loved a little "sugar"......

 

Chances are, tomorrow night, but i wont initiate it, i promise.

Do not hesitate to initiate it. Two weeks sounds like a while, considering your sex-drive.

 

However, be "romantic" in your fore-play. Don't directly get to genitals part. Start by you know.....Come-on, I am not your sex therapist. You can get valuable information form the web.

 

Once you will take charge of the romantic component of your marriage in intelligent manner; your wife will start craving your attention and this will boost her sex-drive. But this will take time.

 

You need to develop a flow with your wife with respect to intimacy in a manner that both feel satisfied. Offer your input and acquire her input in this aspect.

Edited April 27, 2013 by LeGenDary_Man

[STEVE0158]

So this Saturday i was sick in bed w a stomach virus, i was slightly mobile but minimally. The plan to go out and have a romantic date night went out the window.

 

Yesterday i woke feeling better, we went for breakfast and ran some errands. I substantially halted the sexual comments i usually make. Even the feels i usually grab here and there were stopped, the normal ass grabs were replaced by hugs and kisses on the cheek.

 

For the record, if we are not intimate Friday or Saturday, Sunday evening is usually the time. We both usually shower and wind up in bed for an early evening session. After yesterday's errands we did some yard work. I mowed the lawn and was quite dirty, she did some cleaning as well. As about 6pm approached she asked if i was going to shower, i said "yes, in a few", she waited and said "if you're not going to shower, i will", then she invited me to the shower and said she'd wash me, of course i took advantage of this. We took a nice shower, she washed my hair and my body and gave me some nice tongue action, i did the same to her. i was very turned on, she looked down and said "your dick is dirty, let me clean it!" and i got a very nice BJ as the water continued to run on us, it was very sexual. When I finished (very quickly, lol, it's been two weeks) she kissed me on the cheek, got out of the shower bc she knew i needed to shave. I did want to reciprocate but by the time i got out of the shower she was on the couch relaxing w/ a cup of tea.

[Jealous1]

I think I understand how the OP feels. If I'm reading him correctly, I feel almost exactly the same way.

 

An awful lot of the advice on this thread is about him getting her motor running and that he needs to learn how to turn her on - and THEN sparks will fly.

 

As well-intentioned as that advice may be, I can't help but feel that it completely fails to address to real issue - at least, if the OP feels the way I do.

 

I'm not married, but I have a gf that would be the perfect girl for me in every other way and I really wanted to marry until this started being a problem. Right now, I have no idea what to do so I found this thread looking for ideas.

 

Anyway, the point is that while my gf has never rejected me and tells me that she enjoys our sex together, she is not sexual with me.

 

It's not about me always having to initiate - though it's related - it's about the fact that she's never sexual with me. She never tells me how much she wants me. Never touches me in a sexual way. Never grabs my dick or even just feels it. Not everything has to lead to sex immediately. Although I'd like to have sex more than the 2 or 3 times a week we do, I can live with the frequency per se. What I find very difficult and hurtful is that she doesn't show me she wants it. The only way I know is by the fact that she's wet when I get between her legs. Until then, you wouldn't really know.

 

I'll give you an example of what I want. A few years ago I was on vacation and met a girl. We hit it off pretty well and spent the whole week together. We had sex at least every day, sometimes twice or even three times (this is a rare event for me. LOL). The sex was great. No complaints of pain and she orgasmed plenty. But as good as that was, you know what really sticks in my mind even more? The morning I woke up to her fondling me. The time we were at the bar and she stood next to me very close and her hand was on my junk. Both of those times didn't lead to sex, because it's not about the sex per se! It's that it made me feel truly and undeniably wanted. And if I have to spend 20 minutes warming her up for that, it defeats the entire purpose of what I think the OP is trying to convey.

 

Now you may say, "well, women just don't think that way. They need to be warmed up."

 

To which I say, "how would a woman feel if she had to 'warm up' her man before every time she just wanted to cuddle and talk to him?" When my girl comes home from work and I don't particularly feel like listening to her unload, I don't say "sorry baby, I'm just not in the mood." I know it's important to her, so I listen. Often enough, I get into it and I'm fine after a few minutes.

 

Ideally, yes, I wish my girl was horny as me and sincerely WANTED to grab my ass, my dick, make suggestive comments and outright initiate sex simply because that's exactly what she wants to do.

 

But even if I accept the fact that her libido is not as strong as mine and she simply doesn't feel sexual as much as I do, it hurts my feelings and makes me feel ugly and undesirable that she doesn't do these things simply for the sake that it makes me happy.

 

When I forgo the boil-in-a-bag dinner that takes 10 minutes and take an hour to make something I know will be delicious for her, it's not because I 'feel' like cutting carrots and sauteing mushrooms. It's because I care about her happiness and I do those things (tedious tasks) for the end goal of knowing that she's going to love the meal instead of tolerate a half-assed meal. But while cutting carrots may in and of itself be a tedious task required for the final product, it doesn't feel tedious to me and I'm happy to do it because it's the happiness it gives her when she eats that motivates me.

 

I don't know if I did any better at conveying what the OP feels but that's the best I got right now.

 

If she doesn't want my actual dick in her mouth at the time she starts, I get it. What bothers me is that, knowing full well how happy it would make me if she were to give me a bj while watching TV out of the blue, my happiness doesn't seem important to her enough to do it.

 

To be clear, I'm not talking about "duty" here. I'm talking about the true and pure desire to make the person you love feel good and do something that in and of itself may be tedious or not necessarily desirable at the moment, but the end result makes it almost pleasurable to do.

 

Does this make any sense? At least, that's how I feel...

 

I get the OP's feelings, I think and I must say that it's hard as hell to not get this from the woman you love, no matter how great she is in every other regard. I love my girl and want desperately to marry her but know that if this doesn't get resolved, I'll be so unhappy it will destroy all those other great things over time.

 

Don't tell me (or the OP) to initiate. That's the whole point here! We do initiate but what we really, really want is to not have to every time. We want to see that our women are so horny (for us!!!) that they can't help themselves sometimes. And if they can't get that horny for us, then hey, give us some love because you WANT us to feel good, not because you think it's a duty to service us. Get it?

 

So the question is, how do you get your woman to understand this and do it? I'm sure that if she understood how important it is, any woman that loves you even just a little bit would not bitch and moan about the little effort it took to do. 10 minutes of surprise head every once in a while? I just can't believe it's such an issue that it takes anything called "effort" to do. If my gf had a higher sex drive than me, I can't imagine in a million years calling it a "duty" or thinking of it as "effort" to go down on her and get her off to make up for the difference. Why would I? I would love making her feel good. It's not much different than giving her a massage after a hard day's work or whatever.

 

There's something about society which I think approaches a sickness. I think it's really a sad statement that anything to do with sex that's not 120% desired already should be shunned.

 

I'll bet ya a million dollars that if a man said, "look, you may not understand it but a 10 minute back massage makes me feel virile, sex, desired, wanted and loved. It makes feel confident and energetic and good about myself and our relationship. You don't need to understand it. Just give me a 10-minute back massage like you mean it two or three times a week and I'm telling you, our relationship will be one for the ages,"... I'll bet anything that women would happily and enthusiastically give that massage and would not see it as a duty or task so much. They'd think nothing of it, considering all the reward they are getting out of a measly 10 minutes, not to mention the knowledge of just how much that little bit of time and almost effortless 10 minutes brings to the marriage. But change the word from massage to head and all of a sudden, the men are asking for too much, are "pressuring" her, and this and that and the other thing.

 

I know that for myself, I can't speak for others, I am not asking for something that I wouldn't be willing to do for her. In fact, when I help her with the chores, take her out to a nice restaurant, go for a walk when I don't particularly feel like walking, go to bed early even though I'm not that tired just because I know how it will make her feel, or make a meal that takes an hour of effort instead of throwing something in the microwave, I am doing exactly that. I am putting in all sorts of effort into activities that don't necessarily turn me on in themselves but I am happy to do it for HER and her happiness.

 

Is it really so damn much to ask from the woman that you love and who is supposed to love you back? Why is it that they would rather do two hours of laundry (something we don't care about that much) thinking that's how to please us than to accept the fact that 10 minute bj would go sooooooooooooooo much farther??!

 

I just don't get it.

[STEVE0158]

I think I understand how the OP feels. If I'm reading him correctly, I feel almost exactly the same way.

 

An awful lot of the advice on this thread is about him getting her motor running and that he needs to learn how to turn her on - and THEN sparks will fly.

 

As well-intentioned as that advice may be, I can't help but feel that it completely fails to address to real issue - at least, if the OP feels the way I do.

 

I'm not married, but I have a gf that would be the perfect girl for me in every other way and I really wanted to marry until this started being a problem. Right now, I have no idea what to do so I found this thread looking for ideas.

 

Anyway, the point is that while my gf has never rejected me and tells me that she enjoys our sex together, she is not sexual with me.

 

It's not about me always having to initiate - though it's related - it's about the fact that she's never sexual with me. She never tells me how much she wants me. Never touches me in a sexual way. Never grabs my dick or even just feels it. Not everything has to lead to sex immediately. Although I'd like to have sex more than the 2 or 3 times a week we do, I can live with the frequency per se. What I find very difficult and hurtful is that she doesn't show me she wants it. The only way I know is by the fact that she's wet when I get between her legs. Until then, you wouldn't really know.

 

I'll give you an example of what I want. A few years ago I was on vacation and met a girl. We hit it off pretty well and spent the whole week together. We had sex at least every day, sometimes twice or even three times (this is a rare event for me. LOL). The sex was great. No complaints of pain and she orgasmed plenty. But as good as that was, you know what really sticks in my mind even more? The morning I woke up to her fondling me. The time we were at the bar and she stood next to me very close and her hand was on my junk. Both of those times didn't lead to sex, because it's not about the sex per se! It's that it made me feel truly and undeniably wanted. And if I have to spend 20 minutes warming her up for that, it defeats the entire purpose of what I think the OP is trying to convey.

 

Now you may say, "well, women just don't think that way. They need to be warmed up."

 

To which I say, "how would a woman feel if she had to 'warm up' her man before every time she just wanted to cuddle and talk to him?" When my girl comes home from work and I don't particularly feel like listening to her unload, I don't say "sorry baby, I'm just not in the mood." I know it's important to her, so I listen. Often enough, I get into it and I'm fine after a few minutes.

 

Ideally, yes, I wish my girl was horny as me and sincerely WANTED to grab my ass, my dick, make suggestive comments and outright initiate sex simply because that's exactly what she wants to do.

 

But even if I accept the fact that her libido is not as strong as mine and she simply doesn't feel sexual as much as I do, it hurts my feelings and makes me feel ugly and undesirable that she doesn't do these things simply for the sake that it makes me happy.

 

When I forgo the boil-in-a-bag dinner that takes 10 minutes and take an hour to make something I know will be delicious for her, it's not because I 'feel' like cutting carrots and sauteing mushrooms. It's because I care about her happiness and I do those things (tedious tasks) for the end goal of knowing that she's going to love the meal instead of tolerate a half-assed meal. But while cutting carrots may in and of itself be a tedious task required for the final product, it doesn't feel tedious to me and I'm happy to do it because it's the happiness it gives her when she eats that motivates me.

 

I don't know if I did any better at conveying what the OP feels but that's the best I got right now.

 

If she doesn't want my actual dick in her mouth at the time she starts, I get it. What bothers me is that, knowing full well how happy it would make me if she were to give me a bj while watching TV out of the blue, my happiness doesn't seem important to her enough to do it.

 

To be clear, I'm not talking about "duty" here. I'm talking about the true and pure desire to make the person you love feel good and do something that in and of itself may be tedious or not necessarily desirable at the moment, but the end result makes it almost pleasurable to do.

 

Does this make any sense? At least, that's how I feel...

 

I get the OP's feelings, I think and I must say that it's hard as hell to not get this from the woman you love, no matter how great she is in every other regard. I love my girl and want desperately to marry her but know that if this doesn't get resolved, I'll be so unhappy it will destroy all those other great things over time.

 

Don't tell me (or the OP) to initiate. That's the whole point here! We do initiate but what we really, really want is to not have to every time. We want to see that our women are so horny (for us!!!) that they can't help themselves sometimes. And if they can't get that horny for us, then hey, give us some love because you WANT us to feel good, not because you think it's a duty to service us. Get it?

 

So the question is, how do you get your woman to understand this and do it? I'm sure that if she understood how important it is, any woman that loves you even just a little bit would not bitch and moan about the little effort it took to do. 10 minutes of surprise head every once in a while? I just can't believe it's such an issue that it takes anything called "effort" to do. If my gf had a higher sex drive than me, I can't imagine in a million years calling it a "duty" or thinking of it as "effort" to go down on her and get her off to make up for the difference. Why would I? I would love making her feel good. It's not much different than giving her a massage after a hard day's work or whatever.

 

There's something about society which I think approaches a sickness. I think it's really a sad statement that anything to do with sex that's not 120% desired already should be shunned.

 

I'll bet ya a million dollars that if a man said, "look, you may not understand it but a 10 minute back massage makes me feel virile, sex, desired, wanted and loved. It makes feel confident and energetic and good about myself and our relationship. You don't need to understand it. Just give me a 10-minute back massage like you mean it two or three times a week and I'm telling you, our relationship will be one for the ages,"... I'll bet anything that women would happily and enthusiastically give that massage and would not see it as a duty or task so much. They'd think nothing of it, considering all the reward they are getting out of a measly 10 minutes, not to mention the knowledge of just how much that little bit of time and almost effortless 10 minutes brings to the marriage. But change the word from massage to head and all of a sudden, the men are asking for too much, are "pressuring" her, and this and that and the other thing.

 

I know that for myself, I can't speak for others, I am not asking for something that I wouldn't be willing to do for her. In fact, when I help her with the chores, take her out to a nice restaurant, go for a walk when I don't particularly feel like walking, go to bed early even though I'm not that tired just because I know how it will make her feel, or make a meal that takes an hour of effort instead of throwing something in the microwave, I am doing exactly that. I am putting in all sorts of effort into activities that don't necessarily turn me on in themselves but I am happy to do it for HER and her happiness.

 

Is it really so damn much to ask from the woman that you love and who is supposed to love you back? Why is it that they would rather do two hours of laundry (something we don't care about that much) thinking that's how to please us than to accept the fact that 10 minute bj would go sooooooooooooooo much farther??!

 

I just don't get it.

 

Jealous1,

 

THANK YOU!!!! Dude, i thought it was me, after getting beat on by most of these people for the last 6 pages, i thought i'm a freak of nature. But you hit the nail on the head, i basically want her to want me once in a while. Send me the OCCASIONAL text msg saying she wants to taste my dick or have me go down on her. Let the thoughts marinate a bit until i see her later that night. I do the same thing as you in regards to the domestic duties knowing she works as much as i do. Cooking, cleaning etc. Like i stated in earlier posts, it's not that i don't get the action, she gives it readily, the problem is, she NEVER says "in 10 minutes we're going in the bed room and you're going to tongue my ass!" This is my problem. Honestly everyone on this site made me feel like i was asking for winning lottery #s and i don't think i'm asking for a lot. She did it the other day, called me in the shower out of the blue and sucked me off, it was great. But like Haley's comet, it doesnt happen often.

 

A few months back, she wakes in the middle of the night crying, she says she had a dream i cheated on her, i laughed it off and put her head on my chest. As she calmed down she started playing w/ the hammer and gave me a BJ that seemed as if our marriage depended on it. The she hopped on and road me like she had something to prove........it was fantastic, totally out of the blue.

 

I too had previous GFs that were beasts, i had one girl that would grab my cock like a leash and lead me to the bedroom, she would've killed me, literally wanted sex 4 times a day, couldn't do it. I needed a cialis to hang w/ her, no lie. She was great fun but too much for me to handle.

 

I just want to feel desired once in a while, that's about it!!!

[GorillaTheater]

I just want to feel desired once in a while, that's about it!!!

 

I didn't look back to see who's been beating on you in this thread, but I'll hazard a guess that they weren't married guys. I get what you're saying 100%, and could easily bitch about the same thing.

 

The tough thing to figure out is fixing it. Talking it through hasn't been a winner, that's for sure.

[Mint Sauce]

Great post jealous1, it also describes my frustration in fantastic similarity.

 

The key point is indeed that having to warm her up, is exactly the problem.

[STEVE0158]

I didn't look back to see who's been beating on you in this thread, but I'll hazard a guess that they weren't married guys. I get what you're saying 100%, and could easily bitch about the same thing.

 

The tough thing to figure out is fixing it. Talking it through hasn't been a winner, that's for sure.

 

Really not sure who it's been, but like i said in an earlier post, i've been made to feel like what i'm expecting is wrong and my fault she is not feeling that way.

[GorillaTheater]

Really not sure who it's been, but like i said in an earlier post, i've been made to feel like what i'm expecting is wrong and my fault she is not feeling that way.

 

I've got to run, but I'll see if I can make this quick.

 

I think it's partly on us. To be the kind of man, physically, emotionally, and mentally, that our wives could and perhaps should be attracted to. But whether they make that final leap to actually be attracted, and express that attraction, is entirely up to them.

 

That's what makes it tough: we hold some of the cards, but not nearly all of them.

 

But ladies, if you think you can skate through a marriage without expressing that attraction at least occasionally, even after many years, you're likely fooling yourself. Some men may not care, but most do. And it eventually becomes a big problem in a marriage.

 

To put it simply, men want to know that the woman they want to spend the rest of their lives with, for whom they've forsaken every other woman on the planet, for whom they lust after when she bends over or flicks her hair in a certain way, wants to jump their bones. Not out of duty, but because they genuinely want it.

[Jealous1]

What really takes the wind out of my sails is that it needs to be talked about in the first place.

 

"Talk to her about it"? I want to reiterate here that we (the OP and I) are NOT talking strictly about the act of sex and its frequency. Would I like sex more than 2 or 3 times a week? Yes, sure, but I can live with this. What I can't live with is that she never tells me she wants it, never says she wants to taste me or feel me in her or what have you. I'm not asking for porn star language. She can use mild language if she's uncomfortable. In fact, I think porn lingo is corny and forced and would rather have the understated stuff anyway. But it doesn't come.

 

I would rather have sex once a week with a girl that actively shows me and tells me she wants me and thinks of me sexually than 3 times a week with one where I have to do everything.

 

So here's the problem with talking about it. If I want an ACTION, I can ask for it. So if she is sexual with me and I know she's really into me, then asking her to give me oral instead of say going straight to sex, I can ask that.

 

But how do you 'ask' someone to want you? How do you 'ask' someone to desire you? You can't! The moment I say, "honey, I don't feel loved or very desirable because you never tell me or show me you desire me," I can't trust that from then on, it's an honest expression of her desire for me. Every time after that when she sends me a text saying "I can't wait to get dirty with you tonight!", I'll always wonder if she's just acting or if it's really coming from the heart.

 

So what's man supposed to do? I think I'm a very reasonable person and I don't see in any way whatsoever how this is asking a lot of the person that apparently loves you. Like I said, even if she doesn't desire the sex per se, I feel that my happiness is important enough to her that she desires to make me happy through sex and it not be a chore. The former is ideal, but I'll take the latter too. LOL

 

I simply cannot believe this is even a discussion thread. You'd think that it was f***ing obvious already. Why is it women think this is so different from vacuuming the living room? If I do that, it's not because I like vacuuming. It's because I like to make her happy that I did it for her. (Or replace vacuuming with any other activity that pleases her.)

 

Yes, my sex drive is higher than yours. And? Do something about it because you know it makes me happy and feel loved by you. And when you want to talk about your boring shopping trip with your friends, I'll listen to you, and I'll do it without making you feel like your imposing on me because I love you and I know that it hurts you when I don't listen to you. Do I want to listen to how you were undecided between the blue and pink sweaters? No, I really don't. But do I want to listen to you because I know you feel loved, secure and happy because of it? Yes!

 

So we still don't have a solution. How do you get your wife to understand this without having to tell her directly (because that kind of goes against the point of it all)? I'm afraid I can't think of anything except find a girl that likes sex as much as you do or at least understands the importance it has for a man.

 

Without hijacking, anyone got any advice for me? I've got a gf that is so freaking awesome, I was ready to marry her after two weeks. She is everything I've been looking for (and gave up on finding, actually) in a woman. She showed up out of the blue and knocked my socks off - until I discovered that she wasn't just shy and needed to get to know me better, she is simply not sexual. My heart says to marry her anyway and work on it but my brain knows that the odds of that working are extremely slim and that I should bail. Bailing will give me heartbreak. Marrying into a sexually devoid relationship will give me even bigger heartbreak. Roll the dice on such a slim chance? Thing is, if this wasn't an issue, I would marry her tomorrow and forsake all others in a heartbeat.

[Jealous1]

Steve, you're not a freak. Or maybe we both are! LOL

 

I don't know. Maybe most guys are happy with being the initiator 100% of the time. Maybe they like it that way and that is normal. I have one friend to whom I've complained about this before and he keeps saying he likes the virginal demure type. When he says that, I think he's got some sort of inferiority complex and needs to feel manly by finding girls who "let" him do them rather than being participatory. But this isn't a complaint that I often hear about. I felt really alone in this until I saw this thread.

 

Either my friends are less demanding when it comes to the overtness of their women's sexuality and it's my expectations that are too high or my expectations are normal and it really is my woman that is the anomaly.

 

Or maybe it doesn't matter who is the anomaly? Whether it's me or her, maybe I just need to face the fact that we are not compatible in a way that we can have a successful LT relationship? Maybe you too? I wish I knew what to tell ya, man. I just know that I haven't seen any great advice here on dealing with the particular issue we're talking about. Great advice on other stuff, maybe, but not this.

[Jealous1]

I think it's partly on us. To be the kind of man, physically, emotionally, and mentally, that our wives could and perhaps should be attracted to.

 

I want to agree. I remember when I'd sometimes talk to a girl on the train or in a coffee shop and my friends would roll their eyes and say, "dude, girls don't want to get picked up here." I'd answer, "all (single) girls do want to meet a great guy that treats them the way they want to be treated, regardless of where they are. The question is not if they want to meet a great guy. The question is whether or not YOU are that guy for her."

 

Similar can be said about sex. All women wanna get banged, the question is whether she wants YOU to bang her. You think she'd complain about your sexual remarks if you were Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise (or pick your favorite hunk)? Hell no!

 

But those guys are movie stars for a reason. And my gf, while attractive to me, is not CZJ either.

 

But you know what? When she asks me if she looks good even though she could lose a few pounds, do I focus on the extra pounds? No, I tell her she looks great. You can focus on the negative about anything. It comes down to how much do I care about her feelings. In some situations, I know that she is not asking my real opinion. She's asking me to make her feel good about herself. There are other times where she really is asking my opinion and I'll tell her that yeah, she could lose a few pounds, but dammit, you're still hot to me! I am going out of my way to be tactful out of respect for her feelings. I also have a true desire to make her feel better. And this is what kills me about her being sexual. I can't help but believe that if she loved me, honestly loved me, a 10-min bj would be anything but a chore for her.

 

OK, I'll stop. I'm repeating myself and starting to rant. LOL

[GorillaTheater]

Without hijacking, anyone got any advice for me? I've got a gf that is so freaking awesome, I was ready to marry her after two weeks. She is everything I've been looking for (and gave up on finding, actually) in a woman. She showed up out of the blue and knocked my socks off - until I discovered that she wasn't just shy and needed to get to know me better, she is simply not sexual. My heart says to marry her anyway and work on it but my brain knows that the odds of that working are extremely slim and that I should bail. Bailing will give me heartbreak. Marrying into a sexually devoid relationship will give me even bigger heartbreak. Roll the dice on such a slim chance?

 

I'd say your brain is right. In my case, my wife was into me in a serious way early on, and well into the marriage (30 years for me pretty soon). Now? Maybe not so much. That kind of thing can happen. It's not a bait-and-switch, but people change. Circumstances change. Life happens.

 

But in your case? Being where you're at so early in the relationship? My guess is that you have big, big odds against ever having the relationship you want with this woman. I'm sorry, man.

[STEVE0158]

What really takes the wind out of my sails is that it needs to be talked about in the first place.

 

"Talk to her about it"? I want to reiterate here that we (the OP and I) are NOT talking strictly about the act of sex and its frequency. Would I like sex more than 2 or 3 times a week? Yes, sure, but I can live with this. What I can't live with is that she never tells me she wants it, never says she wants to taste me or feel me in her or what have you. I'm not asking for porn star language. She can use mild language if she's uncomfortable. In fact, I think porn lingo is corny and forced and would rather have the understated stuff anyway. But it doesn't come.

 

I would rather have sex once a week with a girl that actively shows me and tells me she wants me and thinks of me sexually than 3 times a week with one where I have to do everything.

 

So here's the problem with talking about it. If I want an ACTION, I can ask for it. So if she is sexual with me and I know she's really into me, then asking her to give me oral instead of say going straight to sex, I can ask that.

 

But how do you 'ask' someone to want you? How do you 'ask' someone to desire you? You can't! The moment I say, "honey, I don't feel loved or very desirable because you never tell me or show me you desire me," I can't trust that from then on, it's an honest expression of her desire for me. Every time after that when she sends me a text saying "I can't wait to get dirty with you tonight!", I'll always wonder if she's just acting or if it's really coming from the heart.

 

So what's man supposed to do? I think I'm a very reasonable person and I don't see in any way whatsoever how this is asking a lot of the person that apparently loves you. Like I said, even if she doesn't desire the sex per se, I feel that my happiness is important enough to her that she desires to make me happy through sex and it not be a chore. The former is ideal, but I'll take the latter too. LOL

 

I simply cannot believe this is even a discussion thread. You'd think that it was f***ing obvious already. Why is it women think this is so different from vacuuming the living room? If I do that, it's not because I like vacuuming. It's because I like to make her happy that I did it for her. (Or replace vacuuming with any other activity that pleases her.)

 

Yes, my sex drive is higher than yours. And? Do something about it because you know it makes me happy and feel loved by you. And when you want to talk about your boring shopping trip with your friends, I'll listen to you, and I'll do it without making you feel like your imposing on me because I love you and I know that it hurts you when I don't listen to you. Do I want to listen to how you were undecided between the blue and pink sweaters? No, I really don't. But do I want to listen to you because I know you feel loved, secure and happy because of it? Yes!

 

So we still don't have a solution. How do you get your wife to understand this without having to tell her directly (because that kind of goes against the point of it all)? I'm afraid I can't think of anything except find a girl that likes sex as much as you do or at least understands the importance it has for a man.

 

Without hijacking, anyone got any advice for me? I've got a gf that is so freaking awesome, I was ready to marry her after two weeks. She is everything I've been looking for (and gave up on finding, actually) in a woman. She showed up out of the blue and knocked my socks off - until I discovered that she wasn't just shy and needed to get to know me better, she is simply not sexual. My heart says to marry her anyway and work on it but my brain knows that the odds of that working are extremely slim and that I should bail. Bailing will give me heartbreak. Marrying into a sexually devoid relationship will give me even bigger heartbreak. Roll the dice on such a slim chance? Thing is, if this wasn't an issue, I would marry her tomorrow and forsake all others in a heartbeat.

 

Jealous1, again we are in the same boat as i mentioned in an earlier post. I have a problem with the acting, passion and attraction are feeling, sex and the like are actions, any one of us can perform an action but you can perform a feeling.

 

it sounds like you and i are in the same boat, i love everything about my wife from the second i met her except when it comes to intimacy. i can name 100 things about her that i love better than any other girl i was ever with, i felt the sex issues would eventually dissolve once she become confident enough in US, unfortunately i was wrong. Shes not a horny or sexual person period. But that doesn't mean i regret marrying her. Flip it and say i married a girl that was insane in bed but was a slob or had bad manners or chewed w/ her mouth open. I would be in the same boat just on a different board lol

[LeGenDary_Man]

Jealous1, again we are in the same boat as i mentioned in an earlier post. I have a problem with the acting, passion and attraction are feeling, sex and the like are actions, any one of us can perform an action but you can perform a feeling.

 

it sounds like you and i are in the same boat, i love everything about my wife from the second i met her except when it comes to intimacy. i can name 100 things about her that i love better than any other girl i was ever with, i felt the sex issues would eventually dissolve once she become confident enough in US, unfortunately i was wrong. Shes not a horny or sexual person period. But that doesn't mean i regret marrying her. Flip it and say i married a girl that was insane in bed but was a slob or had bad manners or chewed w/ her mouth open. I would be in the same boat just on a different board lol

Seriously, it took just one man here to slip you back in your (older) state of denial/delusion?

 

OP's relationship dynamics are very different from that of yours; don't you get it?

 

- OP has a GF. In contrast you have a wife.

- OP can opt-out of his relationship much easier then you. In contrast, divorce are very messy affairs and yours is already a second marriage.

- OP's GF isn't a carbon-copy of your wife in personality and perceptions.

 

Fact is that you have horrible communication/romantic skills; you don't know how to romance a mature woman. You guilt-shame your wife in to being intimate with you as apparent from your declarations. No wonder she called you "ridiculous" not long ago.

 

What you need to STICK IN YOUR MIND is that you have got a wonderful wife and you need to strengthen your "emotional bond" with her to win her over in the manner that she starts to get wet about you in the manner as you expect.

 

Yes, you have mentioned that your wife's sexual perceptions are not up-to your expectations but you need to realize that you have your own share of shortcomings to address as well; that you don't appreciate her "noteworthy efforts" to please you as much as you should; an example:

 

So this Saturday i was sick in bed w a stomach virus, i was slightly mobile but minimally. The plan to go out and have a romantic date night went out the window.

 

Yesterday i woke feeling better, we went for breakfast and ran some errands. I substantially halted the sexual comments i usually make. Even the feels i usually grab here and there were stopped, the normal ass grabs were replaced by hugs and kisses on the cheek.

 

For the record, if we are not intimate Friday or Saturday, Sunday evening is usually the time. We both usually shower and wind up in bed for an early evening session. After yesterday's errands we did some yard work. I mowed the lawn and was quite dirty, she did some cleaning as well. As about 6pm approached she asked if i was going to shower, i said "yes, in a few", she waited and said "if you're not going to shower, i will", then she invited me to the shower and said she'd wash me, of course i took advantage of this. We took a nice shower, she washed my hair and my body and gave me some nice tongue action, i did the same to her. i was very turned on, she looked down and said "your dick is dirty, let me clean it!" and i got a very nice BJ as the water continued to run on us, it was very sexual. When I finished (very quickly, lol, it's been two weeks) she kissed me on the cheek, got out of the shower bc she knew i needed to shave. I did want to reciprocate but by the time i got out of the shower she was on the couch relaxing w/ a cup of tea.

 

Ever thought that why your wife made the aforementioned move? Because you were no longer pressurizing her and you listened to our advice and attempted to work on your relationship dynamics accordingly.

 

So what is your plan? To give-up on all the useful advice in this thread for the sake of revelation of one person whose relationship dynamics are vastly different then yours? You are not a wise man then and you have wasted time of those posters who decided to help you in good faith. If you are envying those who just intend to stroke your ego and not point-out your flaws, then you are in dire need of "self-introspection" and probably therapy.

 

I really feel for your wife now. Maybe she made a wrong choice.

Edited April 30, 2013 by LeGenDary_Man

[STEVE0158]

Seriously, it took just one man here to slip you back in your (older) state of denial/delusion?

 

OP's relationship dynamics are very different from that of yours; don't you get it?

 

- OP has a GF. In contrast you have a wife.

- OP can opt-out of his relationship much easier then you. In contrast, divorce are very messy affairs and yours is already a second marriage.

- OP's GF isn't a carbon-copy of your wife in personality and perceptions.

 

Fact is that you have horrible communication/romantic skills; you don't know how to romance a mature woman. You guilt-shame your wife in to being intimate with you as apparent from your declarations. No wonder she called you "ridiculous" not long ago.

 

What you need to STICK IN YOUR MIND is that you have got a wonderful wife and you need to strengthen your "emotional bond" with her to win her over in the manner that she starts to get wet about you in the manner as you expect.

 

Yes, you have mentioned that your wife's sexual perceptions are not up-to your expectations but you need to realize that you have your own share of shortcomings to address as well; that you don't appreciate her "noteworthy efforts" to please you as much as you should; an example:

 

 

 

Ever thought that why your wife made the aforementioned move? Because you were no longer pressurizing her and you listened to our advice and attempted to work on your relationship dynamics accordingly.

 

So what is your plan? To give-up on all the useful advice in this thread for the sake of revelation of one person whose relationship dynamics are vastly different then yours? You are not a wise man then and you have wasted time of those posters who decided to help you in good faith. If you are envying those who just intend to stroke your ego and not point-out your flaws, then you are in dire need of "self-introspection" and probably therapy.

 

I really feel for your wife now. Maybe she made a wrong choice.

 

Legendary Man, Hold on there a second little doggie........I simply stated that in agreement w/ Jealous1 i felt my wants weren't asking for too much.

 

On the flip side of the coin, i am extremely thankful for the info i've received from the group, i am proud that my change in ways may have resulted to a bj in the shower or just my Wife's advance towards me period. i did feel on certain posts people bashed me unjustly. In the post where i mentioned the Sunday shower BJ i also mentioned that Sunday was usually our "sex day", so i'm not so sure if she was just giving a quick BJ to avoid a roll in the sack or it was due to my actions, that will remain to be seen.

[Mint Sauce]

Either my friends are less demanding when it comes to the overtness of their women's sexuality and it's my expectations that are too high or my expectations are normal and it really is my woman that is the anomaly.

 

One possibility is that in fact we have skewed view on female sexuality, fed to us by modern media. Today, we are made to believe that, intrinsically, women have a similar sex drive to men. That they too masturbate, like to watch porn, are horny all the time,...

However, I'm starting to think that that is a poisoned legacy of feminism. Most women are not that into sex. Of course, a select few are, and a larger part cultivates such an image because they are expected to, because they want to please/seduce. But it's not honest, we're being tricked by those women. I was tricked out of my marriage like that. Turned out it was all a show.

 

If you accept that the woman who cupped your junk at the bar was "performing", and that your gf/wife is representative of normal female sexual drive, isn't that comforting?