Passionless marriage

[adelia]

what a great post.

im just curious have you told your gf what youve expressed here? quite often we need to know how you feel in order to initiate. some women need that little bit of encouragement. i disagree in that if you tell her exactly what you want that it wont be something coming from her own desire to do it. relationships take work and open communication.

i know for myself if i knew my bf wanted the things youd mentioned id be all the happy to spoil him and i know other women would too but we need to know your desires. spell it out to us if you have to dont be afraid to tell her!

 

 

What really takes the wind out of my sails is that it needs to be talked about in the first place.

 

"Talk to her about it"? I want to reiterate here that we (the OP and I) are NOT talking strictly about the act of sex and its frequency. Would I like sex more than 2 or 3 times a week? Yes, sure, but I can live with this. What I can't live with is that she never tells me she wants it, never says she wants to taste me or feel me in her or what have you. I'm not asking for porn star language. She can use mild language if she's uncomfortable. In fact, I think porn lingo is corny and forced and would rather have the understated stuff anyway. But it doesn't come.

 

I would rather have sex once a week with a girl that actively shows me and tells me she wants me and thinks of me sexually than 3 times a week with one where I have to do everything.

 

So here's the problem with talking about it. If I want an ACTION, I can ask for it. So if she is sexual with me and I know she's really into me, then asking her to give me oral instead of say going straight to sex, I can ask that.

 

But how do you 'ask' someone to want you? How do you 'ask' someone to desire you? You can't! The moment I say, "honey, I don't feel loved or very desirable because you never tell me or show me you desire me," I can't trust that from then on, it's an honest expression of her desire for me. Every time after that when she sends me a text saying "I can't wait to get dirty with you tonight!", I'll always wonder if she's just acting or if it's really coming from the heart.

 

So what's man supposed to do? I think I'm a very reasonable person and I don't see in any way whatsoever how this is asking a lot of the person that apparently loves you. Like I said, even if she doesn't desire the sex per se, I feel that my happiness is important enough to her that she desires to make me happy through sex and it not be a chore. The former is ideal, but I'll take the latter too. LOL

 

I simply cannot believe this is even a discussion thread. You'd think that it was f***ing obvious already. Why is it women think this is so different from vacuuming the living room? If I do that, it's not because I like vacuuming. It's because I like to make her happy that I did it for her. (Or replace vacuuming with any other activity that pleases her.)

 

Yes, my sex drive is higher than yours. And? Do something about it because you know it makes me happy and feel loved by you. And when you want to talk about your boring shopping trip with your friends, I'll listen to you, and I'll do it without making you feel like your imposing on me because I love you and I know that it hurts you when I don't listen to you. Do I want to listen to how you were undecided between the blue and pink sweaters? No, I really don't. But do I want to listen to you because I know you feel loved, secure and happy because of it? Yes!

 

So we still don't have a solution. How do you get your wife to understand this without having to tell her directly (because that kind of goes against the point of it all)? I'm afraid I can't think of anything except find a girl that likes sex as much as you do or at least understands the importance it has for a man.

 

Without hijacking, anyone got any advice for me? I've got a gf that is so freaking awesome, I was ready to marry her after two weeks. She is everything I've been looking for (and gave up on finding, actually) in a woman. She showed up out of the blue and knocked my socks off - until I discovered that she wasn't just shy and needed to get to know me better, she is simply not sexual. My heart says to marry her anyway and work on it but my brain knows that the odds of that working are extremely slim and that I should bail. Bailing will give me heartbreak. Marrying into a sexually devoid relationship will give me even bigger heartbreak. Roll the dice on such a slim chance? Thing is, if this wasn't an issue, I would marry her tomorrow and forsake all others in a heartbeat.

[STEVE0158]

One possibility is that in fact we have skewed view on female sexuality, fed to us by modern media. Today, we are made to believe that, intrinsically, women have a similar sex drive to men. That they too masturbate, like to watch porn, are horny all the time,...

However, I'm starting to think that that is a poisoned legacy of feminism. Most women are not that into sex. Of course, a select few are, and a larger part cultivates such an image because they are expected to, because they want to please/seduce. But it's not honest, we're being tricked by those women. I was tricked out of my marriage like that. Turned out it was all a show.

 

If you accept that the woman who cupped your junk at the bar was "performing", and that your gf/wife is representative of normal female sexual drive, isn't that comforting?

 

Yes knowing it was an act, much like when you see two hot girls dancing erotically w/ each other at a night club, most are looking to get a rise out of the guys. But there are many women out there who like what they see, know what they want and go after it. I have had many a girl feel me up under the table at a restaurant or grab a handful while in the car, there is something erotic about a girl knowing what she wants and going after it.

 

And once again, that's all i'm looking for in my Wife, I want her to make me feel like she wants me once in a while.

[Phoebe]

And once again, that's all i'm looking for in my Wife, I want her to make me feel like she wants me once in a while.

 

I feel like banging my head against a brick wall. Is that not what happened Sunday? And was it not a fantastic BJ?

 

It's like you took a step forward in your relationship and then decided to let your attitude slide all the way back to the beginning just because another man sympathized with you. Sympathy can be great, look you're not alone, but it's not going to help your sex life.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Phoebe

[STEVE0158]

I feel like banging my head against a brick wall. Is that not what happened Sunday? And was it not a fantastic BJ?

 

It's like you took a step forward in your relationship and then decided to let your attitude slide all the way back to the beginning just because another man sympathized with you. Sympathy can be great, look you're not alone, but it's not going to help your sex life.

 

I understand this Phoebe, yes she did it on Sunday and yes it was a fabulous BJ. Am i not allowed to agree w/ Jealous1? I am not changing my game plan, it's still in motion, the ball is rolling...

[Jealous1]

Mint Sauce said:

 

"If you accept that the woman who cupped your junk at the bar was "performing", and that your gf/wife is representative of normal female sexual drive, isn't that comforting?"

 

I don't know. The question is, do I need to accept that? Why should I assume that the girl at the bar was performing? Maybe she was just into me that much. There's no way to know for sure - and that's what gives me the latitude to believe it. She felt me up. Really, Occam's Razor says that she felt sexual toward me and while it *may* not be the case - she could have been performing just to appear as something I want rather than actually be that - I have no reason to assume that over the other.

 

I've dated enough women to know that some girls do express their sexuality and some don't. I will never forget the gf that constantly gave me bjs (never asked - it was from her) while I was driving. Damn that made me feel awesome. The head was just so-so but the emotional kick was supreme.

 

Now this isn't to say that it's all a girl needs to bring to the table. Far from it! I will not fall in love with and marry a sexy chick if I don't likeher personality and she's not a kind person who cares about me in other areas of life. I stated once that being sexual with your guy will not save 100% of relationships but that not being sexual with your guy will destroy 100% of relationships. I believe this to be true. You can change 100% to 98% if you wish, to account for aberrations. LOL

 

Now let's pretend for a moment that the girl at the bar didn't honestly feel all that sexual. She would've been an amazing actress, but still, let's pretend. Say it was a mental decision. "If I grab his dick, he will like it. I don't really want to but I know it's what men like, so I will."

 

Uh, who cares? If she's willing to be like this for life and I'm never the wiser, bring it on!

 

The only case where I see this being a problem is if she is using it as a way to ensnare me into a marriage and then intends to stop right after. Now I am against divorce in an honest relationship, but I'm not foolish enough to believe I need to (morally) stay in a marriage that was built on deception motivated by selfishness. If I got tricked into marrying a woman who shows me she's not at all what she presented to me beforehand, I will dump her in a second. I'm not talking about the normal changes that happen in LTR's, by the way. That I would stick with like glue and work it out.

 

I know I should say that your premise is comforting because of the honesty of my gf, but yeah, it's not. lol It would be no more comforting than your (not 'you', but people in general) husband calling you a fat pig every time you took your clothes off. Hey, he's being honest, so isn't that comforting to know he's not faking anything for you? Hellz no. No woman would ever want to hear that.

 

I've dated a lot of girls. Some were attractive, but none of them were the "most beautiful girl in the world". But how do you think they felt when I told them that? They'd say, "oh shut up. I'm nawwwwt..." and then smile and their eyes lit up like xmas trees. It didn't matter how honest that statement was, I gave them the latitude to believe it even for just a moment even if they knew it wasn't factually true.

 

This obsession with honesty at all costs (emotional costs to the partner) has got to stop. Honesty when it counts, yes please. But I really don't want my gf to tell me every day how she'd rather bang Brad Pitt than me. LOL No, I want to hear that Pitt wouldn't stand a chance next to me. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter. Make me believe it. Because in the end, perception IS the truth for that person. If it's not delivered with malice, why not?

[Jealous1]

adelia, yes, we talked about it. i don't think she gets it. I think she's hung up on the need for sex = physical act only thing even though i've explained that that is really not it.

 

At the end of the day, I truly believe that if she had any idea how hurtful it is, she would do everything to change it immediately. I know she cares and deosn't want to make me feel rejected or unwanted. But at the end of the day, that's what it is. Doesn't matter why, it just is.

 

So I think the problem is not trying to 'get' her to do anything. It's getting her to fully understand the importance of it and stop trying to understand why.

 

10 minutes of head every few days, not even every day, a quick ass grab or dick grab here and there, a reply like "oh, you're making me horny" when I say something like "I can't wait to get you home and rip your clothes off" instead of something like "really! so do you want salad or soup?" would solidify my abillity to commit to her without hesitation. The lack of it utterly destroys it.

 

anyway, no change at all since our talk. she "tried" to be a bit more proactive (responsive? participatory?) last time we had sex but then ruined it almost immediately by telling me how unnatural it was for her to do it. All she did was reach down and play with me for a couple minutes while kissing. That's it. The only difference I felt was a *slight* bit more enthusiasm - but again, her statements ruined it by acknowledging that it wasn't real. Thanks for that. LOL

 

If I knew for a fact that she could grow into sexual maturity, I would marry her anyway even if it took 5 years. But I doubt that any significant change will ever be achieved. There's always the 1% chance, but a 99% of frustration, unhappiness and having my self-esteem destroyed over time doesn't sound like odds worth taking.

 

This is really hard.

[STEVE0158]

Mint Sauce said:

 

"If you accept that the woman who cupped your junk at the bar was "performing", and that your gf/wife is representative of normal female sexual drive, isn't that comforting?"

 

I don't know. The question is, do I need to accept that? Why should I assume that the girl at the bar was performing? Maybe she was just into me that much. There's no way to know for sure - and that's what gives me the latitude to believe it. She felt me up. Really, Occam's Razor says that she felt sexual toward me and while it *may* not be the case - she could have been performing just to appear as something I want rather than actually be that - I have no reason to assume that over the other.

 

I've dated enough women to know that some girls do express their sexuality and some don't. I will never forget the gf that constantly gave me bjs (never asked - it was from her) while I was driving. Damn that made me feel awesome. The head was just so-so but the emotional kick was supreme.

 

Now this isn't to say that it's all a girl needs to bring to the table. Far from it! I will not fall in love with and marry a sexy chick if I don't likeher personality and she's not a kind person who cares about me in other areas of life. I stated once that being sexual with your guy will not save 100% of relationships but that not being sexual with your guy will destroy 100% of relationships. I believe this to be true. You can change 100% to 98% if you wish, to account for aberrations. LOL

 

Now let's pretend for a moment that the girl at the bar didn't honestly feel all that sexual. She would've been an amazing actress, but still, let's pretend. Say it was a mental decision. "If I grab his dick, he will like it. I don't really want to but I know it's what men like, so I will."

 

Uh, who cares? If she's willing to be like this for life and I'm never the wiser, bring it on!

 

The only case where I see this being a problem is if she is using it as a way to ensnare me into a marriage and then intends to stop right after. Now I am against divorce in an honest relationship, but I'm not foolish enough to believe I need to (morally) stay in a marriage that was built on deception motivated by selfishness. If I got tricked into marrying a woman who shows me she's not at all what she presented to me beforehand, I will dump her in a second. I'm not talking about the normal changes that happen in LTR's, by the way. That I would stick with like glue and work it out.

 

I know I should say that your premise is comforting because of the honesty of my gf, but yeah, it's not. lol It would be no more comforting than your (not 'you', but people in general) husband calling you a fat pig every time you took your clothes off. Hey, he's being honest, so isn't that comforting to know he's not faking anything for you? Hellz no. No woman would ever want to hear that.

 

I've dated a lot of girls. Some were attractive, but none of them were the "most beautiful girl in the world". But how do you think they felt when I told them that? They'd say, "oh shut up. I'm nawwwwt..." and then smile and their eyes lit up like xmas trees. It didn't matter how honest that statement was, I gave them the latitude to believe it even for just a moment even if they knew it wasn't factually true.

 

This obsession with honesty at all costs (emotional costs to the partner) has got to stop. Honesty when it counts, yes please. But I really don't want my gf to tell me every day how she'd rather bang Brad Pitt than me. LOL No, I want to hear that Pitt wouldn't stand a chance next to me. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter. Make me believe it. Because in the end, perception IS the truth for that person. If it's not delivered with malice, why not?

 

You write wonderfully, i wish i could hit the like button 40 more times...bravo!

Perception is reality is my favorite saying ever!!! And you couldn't be more right in saying that if she acts a certain way to make me (as her husband) happy, she is a wonderful woman. The same way i sit at the table time after time, listening to her speak to her parents in a language which i do not understand, inside i'm miserable and would rather be just about anywhere else BUT, i do it because my wife likes me to be by her side and spend quality time w/ her parents. I do it because it make her happy. Jealous1 your comparisons are dead on.

 

I am currently in the process of readjusting my ways, it was made clear that i was "shaming" my wife into sex, making her uncomfortable with my innuendos and when i would "cop a feel" , I've since halted all those actions. i am trying to be more of a gentleman and more romantic with the hopes of triggering her passion from deep down inside.

 

Ultimately i don't think any of these things will work, i honestly feel that her quick Sunday BJ was her way of getting out of full on sex, i could be wrong. I don't think my "new" actions will change anything because as i said before "you can't change people's feelings", however i am giving it an honest attempt and hoping for the best.

[STEVE0158]

adelia, yes, we talked about it. i don't think she gets it. I think she's hung up on the need for sex = physical act only thing even though i've explained that that is really not it.

 

At the end of the day, I truly believe that if she had any idea how hurtful it is, she would do everything to change it immediately. I know she cares and deosn't want to make me feel rejected or unwanted. But at the end of the day, that's what it is. Doesn't matter why, it just is.

 

So I think the problem is not trying to 'get' her to do anything. It's getting her to fully understand the importance of it and stop trying to understand why.

 

10 minutes of head every few days, not even every day, a quick ass grab or dick grab here and there, a reply like "oh, you're making me horny" when I say something like "I can't wait to get you home and rip your clothes off" instead of something like "really! so do you want salad or soup?" would solidify my abillity to commit to her without hesitation. The lack of it utterly destroys it.

 

anyway, no change at all since our talk. she "tried" to be a bit more proactive (responsive? participatory?) last time we had sex but then ruined it almost immediately by telling me how unnatural it was for her to do it. All she did was reach down and play with me for a couple minutes while kissing. That's it. The only difference I felt was a *slight* bit more enthusiasm - but again, her statements ruined it by acknowledging that it wasn't real. Thanks for that. LOL

 

If I knew for a fact that she could grow into sexual maturity, I would marry her anyway even if it took 5 years. But I doubt that any significant change will ever be achieved. There's always the 1% chance, but a 99% of frustration, unhappiness and having my self-esteem destroyed over time doesn't sound like odds worth taking.

 

This is really hard.

 

Jealous1 you will not change her, this is written in her DNA and upbringing, she is who she is as is my Wife. I still would marry her again because she has so many amazing qualities that i would never find in a girl even close to her.

If you read my earlier posts i had my Wife send me some pics of her boobs last week, they were pretty hot, nothing crazy and her face wasn't showing. i was super turned on by them just knowing she did it. when i got home i told her how hot they were, her reply "I felt dirty taking those pics, i wasn't raised like that.", and there goes the mood.......

[Phoebe]

I understand this Phoebe, yes she did it on Sunday and yes it was a fabulous BJ. Am i not allowed to agree w/ Jealous1? I am not changing my game plan, it's still in motion, the ball is rolling...

 

You are allowed to agree with whoever you want, I'm just pointing out that it may not be all that helpful to your current situation with your wife.

[Jealous1]

And it's this that boggles the mind.

 

If sex is such a low priority for these particular women, why is it that they would be hurt beyond belief if you were to get some on the side? You bet your ass they would put in 1000x more effort into trying to stop you from cheating by keeping guard of you, invading your space and privacy, etc., than the effort they're ready to put in to make you feel sexy, wanted and loved by giving you a bj every few days.

 

I simply cannot express how utterly dumbfounded I am by that.

 

I am not married so I can decide whether this is worth gambling on. Part of me really wants to take the chance. Part of me thinks it would be the 'right' thing to do and that I should put aside my sexual needs for the payoff of having someone I click with so well in all other areas. Part of me says marry her and screw around for the good sex. Part of me says just leave her. Don't know which part is right. LOL

 

Here's a story about sex and jealousy though. She's planning a two day trip with her friends soon. Originally, the plan was to go with two girls and two guys. One guy and girl is a couple, the other girl is single and the other guy is gay. That WAS the plan.

 

So I asked her, who's all going again? She said the same thing,except substitute the gay guy for a straight single guy.

 

To be honest, I'm not that worried that something will happen. (Although experience has taught me that I SHOULD be worried. Anytime you put guys and girls together for any period of time, anything can happen.)

 

Anyway, so I said, "oh, so you got a single guy going with you, not a gay guy." She said that yeah, the gay guy bailed and the straight guy took his spot.

 

I said, "oh, ok. I just wanted to know our rules. Now I know that if the time comes for me to take a road trip with a group of friends, it's ok to have single girls in the mix."

 

She freaked. I reminded her that I never asked her not to go and wasn't upset. I just wanted to be clear on our rules.

 

She kept freaking. Now she says she won't go. Why? Because if that day comes, she wants to be able to tell me I can't go with single girls in the mix. She can't say that if she goes on this trip.

 

See? She's jealous and the idea of my screwing around on her kills her. She willing to break her plans just to stop me from doing exactly the same thing IF it ever were to come up.

 

How is it that she doesn't understand how much further random dick grabs, a few sexy emails and occasional bj's would go to guarantee my dedication to her????? How is it that she doesn't understand that if she doesn't start doing this stuff at least a bit that we probably won't be together by the time it's my turn to take a trip with a group anyway????

 

The answer is so simple it's crazy.

 

Steve, you say you'd marry her all over again anyway? How can you live with your dissatisfaction? How do you think you'll feel in another 10 years if things don't change?

[Phoebe]

I've dated enough women to know that some girls do express their sexuality and some don't. I will never forget the gf that constantly gave me bjs (never asked - it was from her) while I was driving. Damn that made me feel awesome. The head was just so-so but the emotional kick was supreme.

 

I'm sure that there are women who fall to the extreme of the 'expressing their sexuality' scale, but to think that all women fall into one of two categories is absurd. I suppose it's easier to think of it that way though, less work involved, either they're a freak in bed or they're a frigid little thing. And if the freakiness disappears? Well it was just an act to trick you into marriage.

 

My ex-husband flat out told me that I didn't like sex, no, what I didn't like was feeling like a walking, breathing sex doll, when it seemed like the only time he wanted to spend with me was having sex. He also didn't listen to me when I pointed out that simply saying "Do you want to have sex" wasn't foreplay and didn't get the juices flowing.

[LeGenDary_Man]

Perception is reality is my favorite saying ever!!! And you couldn't be more right in saying that if she acts a certain way to make me (as her husband) happy, she is a wonderful woman. The same way i sit at the table time after time, listening to her speak to her parents in a language which i do not understand, inside i'm miserable and would rather be just about anywhere else BUT, i do it because my wife likes me to be by her side and spend quality time w/ her parents. I do it because it make her happy. Jealous1 your comparisons are dead on.

Please keep in mind that marriage doesn't revolves around "needs" of one particular spouse. I have read cases in this forum in which husbands were very friendly and helpful to family members of their wives and it would be understatement to say that the wives loved their husbands for this gratitude on their behalf.

 

Woman, typically, think differently then men about lot of matters in life. For mature women, sex is like a "component" of the relationship but definitely not the big deal on the whole. These women are sober and sophisticated in behavioral context and extremely visual/calculative in life. A loyal (and mature) woman is a remarkable life partner. It is important for you to understand the psychology of your wife (and woman in general) and this knowledge will make it possible for you to take necessary steps to fully click with her.

 

I am currently in the process of readjusting my ways, it was made clear that i was "shaming" my wife into sex, making her uncomfortable with my innuendos and when i would "cop a feel" , I've since halted all those actions. i am trying to be more of a gentleman and more romantic with the hopes of triggering her passion from deep down inside.

Admitting own faults and addressing them is a noteworthy and admirable deed. Many members here are simply "motivating" you to bring positive changes in your approach to relationships in good faith.

 

Ultimately i don't think any of these things will work, i honestly feel that her quick Sunday BJ was her way of getting out of full on sex, i could be wrong. I don't think my "new" actions will change anything because as i said before "you can't change people's feelings", however i am giving it an honest attempt and hoping for the best.

You should let go this "negative feeling" inside you that nothing will change. You have been informed that changes take place in time; they do not happen overnight. You do your part in making the change possible.

 

Your negativity would have had merit if your wife hadn't shown flexibility in her ways to adjust to your needs. She have done so in the past but you are not motivating her enough to do more for you with your questionable behavioral patterns, as apparent from your declarations in this thread.

 

Giving up hope is not a solution to your problem.

Edited April 30, 2013 by LeGenDary_Man

[Almond_Joy]

I think I understand how the OP feels. If I'm reading him correctly, I feel almost exactly the same way.

 

An awful lot of the advice on this thread is about him getting her motor running and that he needs to learn how to turn her on - and THEN sparks will fly.

 

As well-intentioned as that advice may be, I can't help but feel that it completely fails to address to real issue - at least, if the OP feels the way I do.

 

I'm not married, but I have a gf that would be the perfect girl for me in every other way and I really wanted to marry until this started being a problem. Right now, I have no idea what to do so I found this thread looking for ideas.

 

Anyway, the point is that while my gf has never rejected me and tells me that she enjoys our sex together, she is not sexual with me.

 

It's not about me always having to initiate - though it's related - it's about the fact that she's never sexual with me. She never tells me how much she wants me. Never touches me in a sexual way. Never grabs my dick or even just feels it. Not everything has to lead to sex immediately. Although I'd like to have sex more than the 2 or 3 times a week we do, I can live with the frequency per se. What I find very difficult and hurtful is that she doesn't show me she wants it. The only way I know is by the fact that she's wet when I get between her legs. Until then, you wouldn't really know.

 

I'll give you an example of what I want. A few years ago I was on vacation and met a girl. We hit it off pretty well and spent the whole week together. We had sex at least every day, sometimes twice or even three times (this is a rare event for me. LOL). The sex was great. No complaints of pain and she orgasmed plenty. But as good as that was, you know what really sticks in my mind even more? The morning I woke up to her fondling me. The time we were at the bar and she stood next to me very close and her hand was on my junk. Both of those times didn't lead to sex, because it's not about the sex per se! It's that it made me feel truly and undeniably wanted. And if I have to spend 20 minutes warming her up for that, it defeats the entire purpose of what I think the OP is trying to convey.

 

Now you may say, "well, women just don't think that way. They need to be warmed up."

 

To which I say, "how would a woman feel if she had to 'warm up' her man before every time she just wanted to cuddle and talk to him?" When my girl comes home from work and I don't particularly feel like listening to her unload, I don't say "sorry baby, I'm just not in the mood." I know it's important to her, so I listen. Often enough, I get into it and I'm fine after a few minutes.

 

Ideally, yes, I wish my girl was horny as me and sincerely WANTED to grab my ass, my dick, make suggestive comments and outright initiate sex simply because that's exactly what she wants to do.

 

But even if I accept the fact that her libido is not as strong as mine and she simply doesn't feel sexual as much as I do, it hurts my feelings and makes me feel ugly and undesirable that she doesn't do these things simply for the sake that it makes me happy.

 

When I forgo the boil-in-a-bag dinner that takes 10 minutes and take an hour to make something I know will be delicious for her, it's not because I 'feel' like cutting carrots and sauteing mushrooms. It's because I care about her happiness and I do those things (tedious tasks) for the end goal of knowing that she's going to love the meal instead of tolerate a half-assed meal. But while cutting carrots may in and of itself be a tedious task required for the final product, it doesn't feel tedious to me and I'm happy to do it because it's the happiness it gives her when she eats that motivates me.

 

I don't know if I did any better at conveying what the OP feels but that's the best I got right now.

 

If she doesn't want my actual dick in her mouth at the time she starts, I get it. What bothers me is that, knowing full well how happy it would make me if she were to give me a bj while watching TV out of the blue, my happiness doesn't seem important to her enough to do it.

 

To be clear, I'm not talking about "duty" here. I'm talking about the true and pure desire to make the person you love feel good and do something that in and of itself may be tedious or not necessarily desirable at the moment, but the end result makes it almost pleasurable to do.

 

Does this make any sense? At least, that's how I feel...

 

I get the OP's feelings, I think and I must say that it's hard as hell to not get this from the woman you love, no matter how great she is in every other regard. I love my girl and want desperately to marry her but know that if this doesn't get resolved, I'll be so unhappy it will destroy all those other great things over time.

 

Don't tell me (or the OP) to initiate. That's the whole point here! We do initiate but what we really, really want is to not have to every time. We want to see that our women are so horny (for us!!!) that they can't help themselves sometimes. And if they can't get that horny for us, then hey, give us some love because you WANT us to feel good, not because you think it's a duty to service us. Get it?

 

So the question is, how do you get your woman to understand this and do it? I'm sure that if she understood how important it is, any woman that loves you even just a little bit would not bitch and moan about the little effort it took to do. 10 minutes of surprise head every once in a while? I just can't believe it's such an issue that it takes anything called "effort" to do. If my gf had a higher sex drive than me, I can't imagine in a million years calling it a "duty" or thinking of it as "effort" to go down on her and get her off to make up for the difference. Why would I? I would love making her feel good. It's not much different than giving her a massage after a hard day's work or whatever.

 

There's something about society which I think approaches a sickness. I think it's really a sad statement that anything to do with sex that's not 120% desired already should be shunned.

 

I'll bet ya a million dollars that if a man said, "look, you may not understand it but a 10 minute back massage makes me feel virile, sex, desired, wanted and loved. It makes feel confident and energetic and good about myself and our relationship. You don't need to understand it. Just give me a 10-minute back massage like you mean it two or three times a week and I'm telling you, our relationship will be one for the ages,"... I'll bet anything that women would happily and enthusiastically give that massage and would not see it as a duty or task so much. They'd think nothing of it, considering all the reward they are getting out of a measly 10 minutes, not to mention the knowledge of just how much that little bit of time and almost effortless 10 minutes brings to the marriage. But change the word from massage to head and all of a sudden, the men are asking for too much, are "pressuring" her, and this and that and the other thing.

 

I know that for myself, I can't speak for others, I am not asking for something that I wouldn't be willing to do for her. In fact, when I help her with the chores, take her out to a nice restaurant, go for a walk when I don't particularly feel like walking, go to bed early even though I'm not that tired just because I know how it will make her feel, or make a meal that takes an hour of effort instead of throwing something in the microwave, I am doing exactly that. I am putting in all sorts of effort into activities that don't necessarily turn me on in themselves but I am happy to do it for HER and her happiness.

 

Is it really so damn much to ask from the woman that you love and who is supposed to love you back? Why is it that they would rather do two hours of laundry (something we don't care about that much) thinking that's how to please us than to accept the fact that 10 minute bj would go sooooooooooooooo much farther??!

 

I just don't get it.

 

Jealous, thank you.

 

I'm a girl but am having the SAME EXACT problem with my bf. It seems like such a small thing but to have your partner really show that they desire you physically.....that means so much to me. It's horrible not to have it.

 

Just saying it's not only guys that have this problem lol.

 

And your post just made me realize the irony in these responses. I made a thread about my situation a while back and none of the posters really told me to get over it or shame on me for complaining about wanting to be desired. I don't see that I did anymore for my bf than what OP's done to entice or accommodate his wife's desires. Hell he's probably done more than I have for my bf. In my thread everyone put the onus on my bf to ante up. Which....I'm not saying that's not a part of the problem.....but if you have to ask to be shown you're desired there really is no point to the gesture.

 

A couple people here have already stated that some people just aren't oriented to show sexual desire that way. I'm starting to believe that's the case. Just trying to accept it. It's not about love or attraction really. It's just nice to know you're wanted physically, to see some outward sign of that.

[LeGenDary_Man]

Jealous, thank you.

 

I'm a girl but am having the SAME EXACT problem with my bf. It seems like such a small thing but to have your partner really show that they desire you physically.....that means so much to me. It's horrible not to have it.

 

Just saying it's not only guys that have this problem lol.

 

And your post just made me realize the irony in these responses. I made a thread about my situation a while back and none of the posters really told me to get over it or shame on me for complaining about wanting to be desired. I don't see that I did anymore for my bf than what OP's done to entice or accommodate his wife's desires. Hell he's probably done more than I have for my bf. In my thread everyone put the onus on my bf to ante up. Which....I'm not saying that's not a part of the problem.....but if you have to ask to be shown you're desired there really is no point to the gesture.

 

A couple people here have already stated that some people just aren't oriented to show sexual desire that way. I'm starting to believe that's the case. Just trying to accept it. It's not about love or attraction really. It's just nice to know you're wanted physically, to see some outward sign of that.

Check my post # 22 in this thread here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/388692-passionless-marriage-2.html

 

Now you tell me! Was OP correct at treating his wife in that manner? His wife was simply checking her FB profile and she got scolded for such a petty matter. No wonder, she got pissed in response but her maturity level surprises me; she restrained her temper.

 

Fact is that OP's wife is accommodating to his needs; he himself have revealed this. However, he need to work on his attitude and/or shortcomings. He needs to play his part in all of this.

 

People do change but sometimes they need motivation. Problem is that some people have unrealistic expectations but are not willing to do hard-work themselves.

[xxoo]

I do think it is odd that she gave you a BJ and didn't want anything in return. After going that long without any sex, why wasn't she uncomfortably turned on and needing release?

 

I'd ask her.

 

I do need to be warmed up. I don't walk around horny during the day, generally. But once I'm turned on, it is VERY obvious that I am hungry for, and lust for, my husband. If it isn't obvious, well, is she truly turned on?

[LeGenDary_Man]

I do think it is odd that she gave you a BJ and didn't want anything in return. After going that long without any sex, why wasn't she uncomfortably turned on and needing release?

 

I'd ask her.

 

I do need to be warmed up. I don't walk around horny during the day, generally. But once I'm turned on, it is VERY obvious that I am hungry for, and lust for, my husband. If it isn't obvious, well, is she truly turned on?

Maybe we need to hear her side of story now. Only then we will have full picture of potential complications in relationship between OP and his wife. Maybe something about OP does turns her off and/or she harbors some degree of resentment and needs time to overcome such feelings. My guess is OP's history of attitude problems and pressure.

Edited April 30, 2013 by LeGenDary_Man

[Almond_Joy]

Check my post # 22 in this thread here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/388692-passionless-marriage-2.html

 

Now you tell me! Was OP correct at treating his wife in that manner? His wife was simply checking her FB profile and she got scolded for such a petty matter. No wonder, she got pissed in response but her maturity level surprises me; she restrained her temper.

 

Fact is that OP's wife is accommodating to his needs; he himself have revealed this. However, he need to work on his attitude and/or shortcomings. He needs to play his part in all of this.

 

People do change but sometimes they need motivation. Problem is that some people have unrealistic expectations but are not willing to do hard-work themselves.

 

 

Stop. I've read the whole thread. I didn't say the wife isn't trying AT ALL. And it's unfair of you to discount the husband's efforts because of the fb incident. He is FRUSTRATED and he chose the wrong incident to get upset over, but he is a good husband and does a lot for his wife. They are both good to each other whether you want to admit that or not.

 

There's no satisfying substitute for the need he has to be shown physical desire. If you don't have this need then you really can't relate. That's what my experience has shown me. ou're saying he needs to change his attitude. As someone who feels the same way on this, I'm telling you I can't. It hurts to not be shown desire and I can't "change" that. That's just the way I am. If I could make myself not want this to be happy I would.

 

I'm not trying to change my bf. He is who he is and there's nothing bad about that. But make no mistake it is a HARD pill to swallow.

[GorillaTheater]

Maybe we need to hear her side of story now. Only then we will have full picture of potential complications in relationship between OP and his wife. Maybe something about OP does turns her off and/or she harbors some degree of resentment and needs time to overcome such feelings. My guess is OP's history of attitude problems and pressure.

 

Not likely to happen. As in 99.5% of the threads here, we can only go by the OP's word.

 

You seem to have alot of energy invested in this thread. Why is that?

[LeGenDary_Man]

Stop. I've read the whole thread. I didn't say the wife isn't trying AT ALL. And it's unfair of you to discount the husband's efforts because of the fb incident. He is FRUSTRATED and he chose the wrong incident to get upset over, but he is a good husband and does a lot for his wife. They are both good to each other whether you want to admit that or not.

Did I stated anywhere that OP is not a good husband? However, he has his own share of shortcomings and he needs to address them.

 

I understand that nobody is perfect but learning is important.

 

There's no satisfying substitute for the need he has to be shown physical desire. If you don't have this need then you really can't relate. That's what my experience has shown me. ou're saying he needs to change his attitude. As someone who feels the same way on this, I'm telling you I can't. It hurts to not be shown desire and I can't "change" that. That's just the way I am.

 

I'm not trying to change my bf. He is who he is and there's nothing bad about that. But make no mistake it is a HARD pill to swallow.

Point is that you need to do your best at your end. Leave the rest to your partner. Motivating your partner to make positive changes is the key objective here. To make this possible, you need to know what steps are required to be taken.

 

In case of your partner, have you focused on his medical history? His dietary preferences? What turns him on? Any specific steps you took to motivate him to show more interest in you? These are the questions that you need to focus upon and work upon.

 

Otherwise, you will just declare people to STOP and not give you reality check.

[xxoo]

If you read my earlier posts i had my Wife send me some pics of her boobs last week, they were pretty hot, nothing crazy and her face wasn't showing. i was super turned on by them just knowing she did it. when i got home i told her how hot they were, her reply "I felt dirty taking those pics, i wasn't raised like that.", and there goes the mood.......

 

I'd encourage you to talk to your wife and explore the issue of her attraction and arousal, but try not to attach too much value to specific acts, especially things like sexting and sending racy photos.

 

People had hot, satisfying sex for a long time without those acts. If she isn't into the text thing, drop it and find something she does like.

 

FWIW, I'd be turned off by the sexting thing. Turned off. But I've got my share of kinkiness, so insisting on that one thing might be counterproductive.

[LeGenDary_Man]

Not likely to happen. As in 99.5% of the threads here, we can only go by the OP's word.

Then only option left is to advice OP to address his shortcomings and hope for the best.

 

You seem to have alot of energy invested in this thread. Why is that?

Kindly refrain from asking these kind of questions. I help/advice people where I feel I can.

[Almond_Joy]

And it's this that boggles the mind.

 

If sex is such a low priority for these particular women, why is it that they would be hurt beyond belief if you were to get some on the side? You bet your ass they would put in 1000x more effort into trying to stop you from cheating by keeping guard of you, invading your space and privacy, etc., than the effort they're ready to put in to make you feel sexy, wanted and loved by giving you a bj every few days.

 

I simply cannot express how utterly dumbfounded I am by that.

 

I am not married so I can decide whether this is worth gambling on. Part of me really wants to take the chance. Part of me thinks it would be the 'right' thing to do and that I should put aside my sexual needs for the payoff of having someone I click with so well in all other areas. Part of me says marry her and screw around for the good sex. Part of me says just leave her. Don't know which part is right. LOL

 

Here's a story about sex and jealousy though. She's planning a two day trip with her friends soon. Originally, the plan was to go with two girls and two guys. One guy and girl is a couple, the other girl is single and the other guy is gay. That WAS the plan.

 

So I asked her, who's all going again? She said the same thing,except substitute the gay guy for a straight single guy.

 

To be honest, I'm not that worried that something will happen. (Although experience has taught me that I SHOULD be worried. Anytime you put guys and girls together for any period of time, anything can happen.)

 

Anyway, so I said, "oh, so you got a single guy going with you, not a gay guy." She said that yeah, the gay guy bailed and the straight guy took his spot.

 

I said, "oh, ok. I just wanted to know our rules. Now I know that if the time comes for me to take a road trip with a group of friends, it's ok to have single girls in the mix."

 

She freaked. I reminded her that I never asked her not to go and wasn't upset. I just wanted to be clear on our rules.

 

She kept freaking. Now she says she won't go. Why? Because if that day comes, she wants to be able to tell me I can't go with single girls in the mix. She can't say that if she goes on this trip.

 

See? She's jealous and the idea of my screwing around on her kills her. She willing to break her plans just to stop me from doing exactly the same thing IF it ever were to come up.

 

How is it that she doesn't understand how much further random dick grabs, a few sexy emails and occasional bj's would go to guarantee my dedication to her????? How is it that she doesn't understand that if she doesn't start doing this stuff at least a bit that we probably won't be together by the time it's my turn to take a trip with a group anyway????

 

The answer is so simple it's crazy.

 

Steve, you say you'd marry her all over again anyway? How can you live with your dissatisfaction? How do you think you'll feel in another 10 years if things don't change?

 

 

Dude.

 

If you are able to explain this like you are here, and the result you're hoping for is nowhere in sight, I'm thoroughly convinced my situation's set. I've been ruminating over the same choices and reasoning for MONTHS. It's confusing and frustrating and nerve-wracking.

 

But you guys are jerks for wanting this. According to most you're just asking for too much, and obsessing over it. Pfffft. Ok. I guess I'm a jerk too then. It's not even about the sex! Man. It seems so simple but it just doesn't translate.

 

 

Sorry to rant on your thread OP. Honestly this thread's been the most helpful thing I've found on this issue. I probably didn't explain the problem in proper words in my post like Jealous did here. That may be why I got different responses. But the problem is the same. My reasoning is the same as Jealous' and OP's. And I have found several instances of men and women alike dealing with this problem in my search for a win-win solution. I've yet to find one. a solution where the one who wants to be shown desire sees it and the provider of that validation understands the importance of the gesture. This seems nearly unattainable.

[Almond_Joy]

Did I stated anywhere that OP is not a good husband? However, he has his own share of shortcomings and he needs to address them.

 

I understand that nobody is perfect but learning is important.

 

 

Point is that you need to do your best at your end. Leave the rest to your partner. Motivating your partner to make positive changes is the key objective here. To make this possible, you need to know what steps are required to be taken.

 

In case of your partner, have you focused on his medical history? His dietary preferences? What turns him on? Any specific steps you took to motivate him to show more interest in you? These are the questions that you need to focus upon and work upon.

 

Otherwise, you will just declare people to STOP and not give you reality check.

 

If you're that interested in my situation you can go read my previous post, called weird turn ons and no initiative under my username. I've detailed the steps I've taken and my bf is in good health.

 

And I said stop because you sound pissed. You may not actually be but you sound pissed at OP. I know I sound pissed and it's because I'm frustrated about the problem which I'm also dealing with.I don't know you so there's no need for you to be pissed at me. If you're not pissed ok but you sound mad. That's why I said stop.

 

 

Maybe jealous and OP don't see it this way, but to me it's the leaving the part to your partner part that's the problem. Op can make every proper move right to entice his wife as she sees fit, but if she doesn't feel an inclination to show him he desires him of her own volition the problem is still there. That's the crux of the issue and there's nothing he can do about that.

[LeGenDary_Man]

And I said stop because you sound pissed. You may not actually be but you sound pissed at OP. I know I sound pissed and it's because I'm frustrated about the problem which I'm also dealing with.I don't know you so there's no need for you to be pissed at me. If you're not pissed ok but you sound mad. That's why I said stop.

I am not pissed; my posting style is such that I sometimes seem to come across blunt/harsh. You need to relax and attempt to built the capability to digest some degree of toughness.

 

Maybe jealous and OP don't see it this way, but to me it's the leaving the part to your partner part that's the problem. Op can make every proper move right to entice his wife as she sees fit, but if she doesn't feel an inclination to show him he desires him of her own volition the problem is still there. That's the crux of the issue and there's nothing he can do about that.

OP's issue is fixable because OP's wife is accommodating. OP needs to work on his issues and hope for the best.

Edited April 30, 2013 by LeGenDary_Man

[Jealous1]

I'm sure that there are women who fall to the extreme of the 'expressing their sexuality' scale, but to think that all women fall into one of two categories is absurd. I suppose it's easier to think of it that way though, less work involved, either they're a freak in bed or they're a frigid little thing. And if the freakiness disappears? Well it was just an act to trick you into marriage.

 

My ex-husband flat out told me that I didn't like sex, no, what I didn't like was feeling like a walking, breathing sex doll, when it seemed like the only time he wanted to spend with me was having sex. He also didn't listen to me when I pointed out that simply saying "Do you want to have sex" wasn't foreplay and didn't get the juices flowing.

 

Oh my... Talk about twisting my words.

 

Where did I ever say that women are either Puritanical sexless prudes or whore mongering freak shows? I said some express their sexuality and some don't. That is absolutely correct. You are the one who presented the false dichotomy, not me. I find it ironic that you're trying to call me out for something I didn't even do but you did in the very process of trying to call me out! LOL

 

It's attitudes like yours that prevent this thread from being truly helpful. You are not listening and you imagine that because your husband's version of romance is "let's ****", then that must be every guy's way. Guess what. You married a twat. Sorry for you, but we're not all twats.

 

The advice that is given over and over and over again on threads like this one is: hey, you be a good husband too! (assuming we are not without asking) and things like, "do some housework to help her relax. change the diapers once in a while. offer to cook for her, etc." all the while assuming the guys complaining of a frigid wife must not be doing these things.

 

What's the underlying premise here? That if a guy did do those things, she would absolutely turn into an appreciative little sexual dynamo?

 

I'm sweet as hell to my girl. Maybe too sweet. Maybe that's the problem, in fact. I've thought of that. Maybe being too nice to your girl is not considered "manly" or whatever. I shower her with affection. I offer to do some of her chores for her. I massage her out of the blue. We talk like we've known each other for 20 years instead of 2 months. Am I perfect? No. But I treat her great and she tells me so. She loves me like mad. There is no problem in our relationship in that respect. I wouldn't know how else to "step up" without actually becoming a doormat and just living literally FOR her. She's awesome. I'm awesome. She tells me so and I can see it in her face that she is sincere. You can doubt it all you want, won't change the facts.

 

Without trying to insult you, if the only time your husband wants to spend with you is when you're banging, then you're doing something wrong. I want to spend every minute with my gf. I love being with her. I never said I don't want to talk, watch tv, or any of a million other activities with her. I love it. We laugh and truly enjoy each other's company in every way.

 

Seems to me that I am meeting every one of her needs that I can think of. And guess what? I don't ask her to "warm me up" before I can talk to her or before I go for a walk with her. I don't ask her to make me want to do it. I already want to because I enjoy it. And on the occasion that I don't like the activity itself much, I am still happy to do it simply for the joy I know it will bring her by being there and doing it with her. I am not asking for anything different.

 

And again, you seem to fail to grasp the issue. You're talking about your husband's failure to give you any foreplay. I already do. When we bang, she's enjoying it.

 

Maybe I need to put it in caps for some of you to get it.

 

I WANT TO (OCCASIONALLY, AT LEAST) NOT HAVE TO BE THE AGGRESSOR. I WANT HER TO, OUT OF THE COLD BLUE, ON HER OWN ACCORD, OF HER OWN VOLITION, WITHOUT ME HAVING TO INDICATE THAT I'M EVEN IN THE MOOD, TO TOUCH ME, TALK TO ME AND OTHERWISE EXPRESS HER SEXUAL DESIRE FOR ME. I WANT HER TO REACH OVER AND TOUCH MY WHILE WE WATCH TV. NOT EVERY DAY. SOMETIMES. I WANT TO KNOW THAT SHE THINKS ABOUT ME SEXUALLY WITHOUT ME HAVING TO TELL HER TO THINK ABOUT ME SEXUALLY. I LOVE TURNING HER ON AND WARMING HER UP AND I'M FINE WITH DOING IT MOST OF THE TIME BUT I DO WANT HER, EVEN IF IT'S ONLY 15% OF THE TIME, TO BE THE ONE TO EXPRESS HER SEXUALITY TO ME FIRST.

 

THE ISSUE IS NOT MY FAILURE TO TURN HER ON AND IT'S NOT THAT SHE REJECTS ME FOR SEX. SHE HASN'T. THAT IS NOOOOOOOOOOOOOT THE ISSUE.

 

THE ISSUE IS THAT HER FAILURE TO INITIATE WHEN WE DO HAVE SEX AND HER FAILURE TO BE SEXUALLY PLAYFUL WHEN WE DON'T MAKES ME FEEL UNWANTED, UNDESIRABLE, UNMANLY AND UNLOVED. I GIVE EVERYTHING I CAN, YES MOSTLY BECAUSE I WANT TO ANYWAY, BUT WHEN I DON'T WANT TO SOMETIMES I DO IT ANYWAY BECAUSE MAKING HER HAPPY MAKES ME HAPPY. IT HURTS TO KNOW THAT SHE DOESN'T THINK THIS WAY. EVEN IF SHE DOESN'T WANT MY DICK IN HER MOUTH AT THIS PARTICULAR MOMENT, WHY DOESN'T SHE WANT TO MAKE ME FEEL GREAT EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE? THIS IS WHAT HURTS SO MUCH. I AM NOT ASKING FOR ANYTHING THAT I WOULDN'T GLADLY DO MYSELF (AND ALREADY DO, REALLY, CONSIDERING IT'S ABOUT"MEETING THE INDIVIDUAL'S NEEDS").

 

How dare you come in and dismiss everything that's already been written in this thread just to project your ****ty marriage life onto me.

 

Read what is written and stop for a moment to actually think about it. Your issues need fixing, but they AIN'T the same issues we here are talking about. Your obvious resentment towards your husband is spreading to all men. That's really not a good thing. Better fix that fast.