What Matters Most in Dating for Women: Intelligence or Looks?

[somedude81]

Something tells me that men and women have a different understanding of what intelligence means.

 

When I hear intelligence, I think of facts and figures as well as understanding terms and what is happening in the world.

 

When it comes to what I want in a woman, average intelligence is perfectly fine. I don't care if she can explain differential calculus or argue about Nietzsche.

 

So when I hear women say that she wants intelligent men, those are the things that first come to mind.

[somedude81]

Some kinds of intelligence are sexier than others. Verbal smarts will usually take you farther with women than math smarts. I've been seduced by a witty jerk more times than I'd care to admit. Dry intelligence does less for me; it's not something I can take pleasure from in our conversations.

 

Depth is underrated. There are lots of people who are book smart and regurgitate whatever they read but have no interest in reflecting on anything.

Isn't that just saying you want a guy who is smooth with words?

 

So this whole talk about intelligence was a red herring when in reality women just want a guy who is charming and a bit of a player?

[tuxedo cat]

Isn't that just saying you want a guy who is smooth with words?

 

So this whole talk about intelligence was a red herring when in reality women just want a guy who is charming and a bit of a player?

 

Social charm is a form of intelligence.

[Treasa]

For me, if a guy has intelligent when it comes to book smarts, politics, etc., but has a low emotional intelligence and/or is hideously ugly, I'm not going to be interested in him.

 

Personality, even though we weren't "allowed" to choose it, is what means the most for me. The social emotionally intelligent, funniest, nicest dude is going to always win out with me, even if he isn't great looking.

 

If a guy wonders why I'm not interested in him, chances are it's not because of how he looks. He's probably just not as secure or as intelligent or mature as he thinks he is.

[youngnlove89]

I'm sorry, but if Mr. Buck Teeth who weighs 350 pds approaches me at Starbucks and is a sesquipedalian (uses big words, ironically) paired with wit and charm, I will not fall right into his protruding belly and get lost in the sea of rolls just because he is...intelligent.

 

I want my man to be intelligent and good looking. I will not settle for one or the other. Because I think it is possible to find both.

 

But for sake of answering your simple question, I choose looks first.

[somedude81]

Social charm is a form of intelligence.

According to who?

[GoodOnPaper]

Yeah. I don't think degrees indicates intelligence. I know people with advanced degrees who don't really understand anything. They cannot make reasonable connections to the big picture. They can work really hard and memorize facts. It's not natural to them.

 

I've noticed guys with advanced degrees are the worst at understanding women. some are nice guys and we know what happens there. they've spent so much time with their head inside a book that they don't know how the real world works.

 

Without fail, these "intelligence" threads work their way around to bashing PhDs. And yes, I'm a science PhD in academia who has always been terrible at attracting women -- I fully admit that blue-collar guys, guys who've been successful in the business world without formal education and guys with bachelor-level college educations are far far far better with women than I ever will be. With that out of the way, can we just start treating "intelligence" (and maybe put air quotes around it like we do with "nice guy") for how it is now interpreted? A simple combination of chemistry, charisma and social smarts. A woman will see almost any guy she is attracted to as "intelligent".

[Phoebe]

According to who?

 

Daniel Goleman for one.

 

Daniel Jay Goleman (born March 7, 1946) is an author, psychologist, and science journalist. For twelve years, he wrote for The New York Times, specializing in psychology and brain sciences. He is the author of more than 10 books on psychology, education, science, ecological crisis, and leadership. He is a two-time Pulitzer Prize nominee.

 

Goleman authored the internationally best-selling book, Emotional Intelligence (1995, Bantam Books), that spent more than one-and-a-half years on The New York Times Best Seller list. Goleman developed the argument that non-cognitive skills can matter as much as I.Q. for workplace success in Working with Emotional Intelligence (1998, Bantam Books), and for leadership effectiveness in Primal Leadership (2001, Harvard Business School Press). Goleman's most recent best-seller is Social Intelligence: The New Science of Human Relationships (2006, Bantam Books). - Wikipedia

Edited April 25, 2013 by Phoebe

[Taramere]

I think when people talk about intelligence, they usually mean somebody who has around the same IQ that they have - and a similar world view. Similar IQ to me or 5 points higher than me and you are a very smart, admirable sort of person. 15 higher and you're a genius. 25 higher and you're either lying or you're a nerd who probably can't function socially and has no common sense whatsoever.

[TheGuard13]

I've found that women value emotional/social intelligence more than book learnin'.

[BetheButterfly]

I believe that looks matter WAY more than intelligence.

 

(For the record, I believe confidence and personality completely destroy both of these.....so let's leave that out).

 

When I was dating, both were important. Both my husband's appearance and his intelligence excite me and encouraged me to have a relationship with him!

 

Now as a married couple, both are still important.

[BetheButterfly]

I'm sorry, but if Mr. Buck Teeth who weighs 350 pds approaches me at Starbucks and is a sesquipedalian (uses big words, ironically) paired with wit and charm, I will not fall right into his protruding belly and get lost in the sea of rolls just because he is...intelligent.

 

I want my man to be intelligent and good looking. I will not settle for one or the other. Because I think it is possible to find both.

 

100% agreed!

[BetheButterfly]

Neither, its all about values for me.

 

I have learned that values (and going on the same path in life) is very important for me as well.

 

If a guy is good looking but mean, what good does that do me?

If a guy is intelligent but a narcissistic jerk, what good does that do me?

Excellent points

[tbf]

If people had bothered to read the premise of the opening post, it's a choice between intelligence and looks where we're supposed to disregard all other traits. A number of members paid attention and actually responded within the bounds of the initial premise.

 

Looks can be ameliorated to some extent since most people when relatively fit and healthy, look average. This to me is acceptable, as long as he's not stupid. Don't forget you still have to talk to the guy between bouts of sex. Imagine a guy incapable of anything but the most crass humour like slapstick or revoltingly crude and rude. Imagine dating a guy who's so stupid, he's a bigoted redneck.

 

As far as emotional and social intelligence, this is classified as EQ (emotional quotient). It isn't really a form of intelligence but it is empathy driven where testosterone interferes with empathy. But testosterone is linked with the desire for social dominance. So, to hypothesize, women are drawn to visible signs of higher testosterone males, particularly during ovulation. Perhaps social dominance is another form of intangible but visible sign of higher testosterone levels.

[tuxedo cat]

If people had bothered to read the premise of the opening post, it's a choice between intelligence and looks where we're supposed to disregard all other traits. A number of members paid attention and actually responded within the bounds of the initial premise.

 

Looks can be ameliorated to some extent since most people when relatively fit and healthy, look average. This to me is acceptable, as long as he's not stupid. Don't forget you still have to talk to the guy between bouts of sex. Imagine a guy incapable of anything but the most crass humour like slapstick or revoltingly crude and rude. Imagine dating a guy who's so stupid, he's a bigoted redneck.

 

As far as emotional and social intelligence, this is classified as EQ (emotional quotient). It isn't really a form of intelligence but it is empathy driven where testosterone interferes with empathy. But testosterone is linked with the desire for social dominance. So, to hypothesize, women are drawn to visible signs of higher testosterone males, particularly during ovulation. Perhaps social dominance is another form of intangible but visible sign of higher testosterone levels.

 

I think it depends on what you mean by social intelligence since social ability can take different forms.

 

Wit is a type of verbal intelligence.

 

Also, there are some people like Bill Clinton who are born with an amazing social instinct and sense of how to manipulate and influence people. This a form of intelligence that requires a nuanced understanding of social cues, human nature and creative problem solving.

 

Then there's another type of social ability that isn't really tied to intelligence--this may be what you're talking about--that has more to do with having a confident and easy-going temperament.

[tbf]

Wit is a type of verbal intelligence.

In many IQ tests, there's a verbal component.

 

Then there's another type of social ability that isn't really tied to intelligence--this may be what you're talking about--that has more to do with having a confident and easy-going temperament.

No.

 

Emotional Quotient

[AMusing]

Looks can be ameliorated to some extent since most people when relatively fit and healthy, look average.

 

Exactly. I was (mentally) choosing between a man with average intelligence but above average looks, vs a man with average looks but above average intelligence. I think any other interpretation of the question is almost trivial to answer. Of course most women aren't going to want someone who is totally socially inept, physically hideous, brain-dead, or cold-hearted. But all other traits being approximately normal, I'll choose a brainy boy over Prince Charming any day.

 

Without fail, these "intelligence" threads work their way around to bashing PhDs. A woman will see almost any guy she is attracted to as "intelligent".

 

I've noticed that too, but why is that? Anyway, chin up GOP, some women do prefer men who are quite logically/analytically intelligent. I for one didn't mean "intelligence" (or social/emotional intelligence) when I chose brains over beauty. In the past I've developed major crushes on "below-average" looking men, after getting into scientific discussions with them. And now listening to my EE boyfriend explain his work is, frankly, a panty-dropper.

[runningfar]

I did not bash PhDs. I only said I have met people of fairly average intelligence with higher degrees, and people with no degrees who are highly intelligent.

 

All I said was degrees don't prove intellect. I have an acquaintance with a doctorate in psychology and she is if quite average intellect. She can not discuss the implication of the latest research in epigenetics or the parallels of historical political themes and today... Or much else more. She has been in school for years. She had two masters before her doctorate. I have met people with no degree at all who are far more intelligent. She only learns to get something... As required for her degree/job. I think truly intelligent people are always learning.

 

There are probably more intelligent doctors than people flinging fries at jack in the box. But degree does not prove intelligence.

 

I am appalled by the average lack of understanding with some of the personal trainers and fitness instructors I work with. They seem to not even keep up with kinesiology or anatomy, which should be given. Yet, my IQ is not lacking with no degree at all.

[Taramere]

I did not bash PhDs. I only said I have met people of fairly average intelligence with higher degrees, and people with no degrees who are highly intelligent.

 

All I said was degrees don't prove intellect. I have an acquaintance with a doctorate in psychology and she is if quite average intellect. She can not discuss the implication of the latest research in epigenetics or the parallels of historical political themes and today... Or much else more.

 

In what context do you try to discuss epigenetics with her? Professionally or socially? If it's professionally, then obviously any difficulty/reluctance she shows in discussing the subject is problematic - but if the context is social, then she might just prefer to move the topic towards light subjects as a way of switching off. People don't necessarily want to spend their social time talking about work related matters.

[Els]

Intelligence, of course. It isn't even necessarily related to level of education, although most intelligent folks either do go to college, or start off right away after high school in a very successful business niche, as opposed to working a McJob. So yes, education or success does in a way point to intelligence - but the main giveaway is how he broaches his thoughts, opinions, and the ability to debate/discuss in a coherent and logical manner, to make witty banter. Obviously, all that isn't necessarily apparent in the first 5 minutes of conversation, which is why I never could understand how anyone could fall in love in 5 minutes.

 

The loophole in your discussion is that you are pitting intelligence against looks, when for most people it is a balance. For some of us the pendulum swings much farther in the direction of intelligence (and usually with associated ambition/success), but that doesn't mean that looks are irrelevant. Obviously an obese, unhygienic, and ugly PhD grad is going to be highly unlikely to attract women, even women who love smart men. The same would apply if the genders were reversed.

 

Personally, I am highly attracted to intelligent men, with looks being very much secondary in my priorities. A requirement I have, though, is that they must have the same priorities for women. Fortunately I have found that many (not all) hyperintelligent men really do have the same priorities for women, contrary to the frequent claims on LS. I think for men at such a level, it gets quite lonely not having a companion who can truly understand him and engage him in discussion about anything as an equal.

[USMCHokie]

Haven't made it through this thread, but my opinion is that intelligence does matter. But here's another way of looking at it. I think women will be more attracted to above average looks than above average intelligence. On the other hand, as evidenced by many of the posts, is that below average intelligence is less attractive than below average looks.

 

It seems being intelligent enough is what is most important.

[Els]

Haven't made it through this thread, but my opinion is that intelligence does matter. But here's another way of looking at it. I think women will be more attracted to above average looks than above average intelligence. On the other hand, as evidenced by many of the posts, is that below average intelligence is less attractive than below average looks.

 

It seems being intelligent enough is what is most important.

 

Odd, it's precisely the other way around for me.

[USMCHokie]

Odd, it's precisely the other way around for me.

 

Above average looks are simply easier to be more impressed by than above average intelligence for several reasons. First, it's much more tangible of a quality than intelligence. Second, everyone displays their looks for all to see, while someone's intelligence is not something you can immediately take in without stopping to talk to something. Finally, keep in mind the Dunning Kruger Effect when it comes intelligence. It's the idea that one has to be above average in intelligence themselves to properly recognize above average intelligence. Not everyone is smart, so not everyone will know what smart actually is...