ALL THESE DAMN FRIENDS!

[Ed]

I’m going to pull a Tony here and get off on a rant about something. There have been a lot of posts having to do with being “friends” with someone and problems related to it. This whole subject is messing with my head and it is driving me nuts! I need to get a few things off my chest about this subject. I hope this will help me (and maybe others) resolve some conflicts about friendships.

 

How many times have you heard this “But, S/he is just a friend.”?

 

A friend is a reciprocal term that describes a person that you have a very specific kind of relationship with, however, many people use the term “friend” very loosely. The vague use of this term has caused many, many heartaches. There is a BIG difference between a “true friend” and someone you are “just friends with”. In other words, you can have a “friendly” relationship with all kinds of people that are not “true friends”. As with all human relationships, there are limits and boundaries that “true friends” MUST observe and adhere to. If these limits or boundaries are crossed, the relationship changes into something else that, for most people, is very hard to DESCRIBE, EXPLAIN and ACCEPT.

 

The real problems that have been brought up on this discussion site all boil down to this:

 

How do I DESCRIBE what a friend is or should be?

 

How do I EXPLAIN to someone else what a friend is or should be?

 

How do I ACCEPT my mates explanation and description of what a friend is or should be?

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say “True Friends” do not:

 

1. Have sex together

 

2. Harbor unexpressed feelings of romantic love for the other

 

3. Do things to undermine the relationships of the other

 

(among other things).

 

If YOU don’t abide by at least these three things, then you are not a “true friend”. If your “friend” doesn’t abide by them, then s/he is not a “true friend”. You can call them “friends” if you want to, but you are really just "acting friendly". There are almost always ulterior motives involved, on one side or the other, that “true friends” would not have.

 

The saddest part of all this is, there are a lot of people out there that are not honest enough with themselves or to others about their true motives in a friendship. Many of us dupe ourselves or are duped by others false pretense, leading to a devastating situation for a number of people.

 

Through all the hurt, pain and mistrust that has been posted here the last few days about broken lives because of “friends” - there is hope! The first step is to become a “true friend”. Then and only then, can you have one or be able to recognize one. That doesn’t mean you can’t do the three things I listed above. What it means is:

 

1. If you have sex with a friend - they become a sex partner (or former sex partner)

 

2. If you express feelings of romantic love - maybe you become lovers (or former lovers)

 

3. If you do things to undermine the relationships of others - well...you become ex-friends

 

This is all I can write for now. Please feel free to respond to this post. Maybe it will help me think more clearly about the subject. You can trash it, praise it, add to it or pick it apart. I just couldn’t go on without saying SOMETHING about it!

 

Have a nice evening,

 

Ed

[Nic]

it is so confusing isn't it????!!!! i for one, can say i have a few male friends. and how do i define them as friends? they are people who i will never have any sexual contact with, people who i know will never "come on" to me, and they are men who i know will not, and never have in all the years i have known them, undermine me. only one male friend has undermined me - because he had a crush on me and i didn't have a crush on him. he is not a friend anymore either, because friends wouldn't undermine each other the way he undermined me. there is a lot of respect between my male friends and i. there are lines that will never be crossed. maybe i'm just one of the lucky ones.

 

"friends" is a very loosely used term. "we're shagging each other, but we're just friends". nuh. sorry, but if i was in a situation like that, and we both knew it was for our own gratification, we might still be on the same boat, but deep down, i think it is using. but that's just me. i couldn't do it and never have. i wouldn't change a friendship so drastically just for the sake of an orgasm. i think so much more of my friends than that, and quite frankly, they are like my family and it would feel incestuous!

 

a true friend may have hidden feelings of love, because during the friendship they have have really come to love a person, but if you know they don't feel the same way and never will, then you're in a tricky situation (we've had those posts the last few days).

 

but that's just my view from my own experiences and certainly doesn't speak for anyone else!

 

i did read a nice quote the other day about friends (it's a magnet on my friends mothers fridge):

 

"True Friends are Born, Not Made".

 

i really like that quote a lot

I'm going to pull a Tony here and get off on a rant about something. There have been a lot of posts having to do with being "friends" with someone and problems related to it. This whole subject is messing with my head and it is driving me nuts! I need to get a few things off my chest about this subject. I hope this will help me (and maybe others) resolve some conflicts about friendships.

 

How many times have you heard this "But, S/he is just a friend."? A friend is a reciprocal term that describes a person that you have a very specific kind of relationship with, however, many people use the term "friend" very loosely. The vague use of this term has caused many, many heartaches. There is a BIG difference between a "true friend" and someone you are "just friends with". In other words, you can have a "friendly" relationship with all kinds of people that are not "true friends". As with all human relationships, there are limits and boundaries that "true friends" MUST observe and adhere to. If these limits or boundaries are crossed, the relationship changes into something else that, for most people, is very hard to DESCRIBE, EXPLAIN and ACCEPT. The real problems that have been brought up on this discussion site all boil down to this:

 

How do I DESCRIBE what a friend is or should be? How do I EXPLAIN to someone else what a friend is or should be? How do I ACCEPT my mates explanation and description of what a friend is or should be?

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say "True Friends" do not: 1. Have sex together 2. Harbor unexpressed feelings of romantic love for the other 3. Do things to undermine the relationships of the other (among other things). If YOU don't abide by at least these three things, then you are not a "true friend". If your "friend" doesn't abide by them, then s/he is not a "true friend". You can call them "friends" if you want to, but you are really just "acting friendly". There are almost always ulterior motives involved, on one side or the other, that "true friends" would not have. The saddest part of all this is, there are a lot of people out there that are not honest enough with themselves or to others about their true motives in a friendship. Many of us dupe ourselves or are duped by others false pretense, leading to a devastating situation for a number of people. Through all the hurt, pain and mistrust that has been posted here the last few days about broken lives because of "friends" - there is hope! The first step is to become a "true friend". Then and only then, can you have one or be able to recognize one. That doesn't mean you can't do the three things I listed above. What it means is: 1. If you have sex with a friend - they become a sex partner (or former sex partner) 2. If you express feelings of romantic love - maybe you become lovers (or former lovers) 3. If you do things to undermine the relationships of others - well...you become ex-friends This is all I can write for now. Please feel free to respond to this post. Maybe it will help me think more clearly about the subject. You can trash it, praise it, add to it or pick it apart. I just couldn't go on without saying SOMETHING about it! Have a nice evening, Ed

[sparkle]

Ed,

 

I must say...I love your posts. These 'discussions' are a good idea, like the last one you started about "one night stands". Thanks for your post. It was worth reading, and cleared up a few things in my head.

 

I've always been confused with the whole "opposite-sex friends" issue. It drives me crazy because no matter how much I think about it and try to pick it apart, I feel I'm back where I started from.

 

At least 90% of my friends are males. I don't know what's wrong with me and why I tend to talk to guys more. My two closest friends...one was a girl who recently got married, and now our friendship's on the backburner; and the guy who ended up falling for me.

 

In high school and previously, I always had more female friends, and not too many guy ones. But over the past few years, it's weird. I'm always hanging out with the guys, I feel like "one of the guys". I'm comfortable around them, I guess after so many fights over petty issues with my girl friends during high school, now I've stuck with my guy friends. I don't know why, maybe I thought it would be less troublesome.

 

Should we just not become friends with the opposite sex because it's bound to lead to trouble?? Because that's how

 

I feel sometimes. And if I just get rid of my guy friends, I'd be one lonely gal cause right now, since my only girl friend got married, I have no close female friends.

 

For some reason, I didn't see a big difference between my male and female friends. I talk to my guy friends about the same stuff girls talk about...guys I like, girls they like, personal stuff, everything...

 

If I was friends with them, I was JUST that. I thought of them as true friends, and I didn't get myself involved with them. I wouldn't do anything physical with them, much less have sex with them. But then I wonder why that is.

 

Did I just luck out with the guys I talk to, that I knew them so well..inside and out...and I haven't been attracted to them, or tried to hook up with them.

 

And things do get crazy sometimes. When you're friends with the guy one day and then the next day they're telling you that they've been attracted to you. Why do they want to do that to you and ruin the friendship? Am I giving them mixed signals by being friends with them?? I haven't even hugged or kissed any of them (besides the one I wrote about).

 

Am I being a total b*tch when I say that it sometimes makes me so upset...why are they doing this? We've been friends and now they're going to mess things up by telling me that.

 

Maybe it's cause I don't like them that way in return, I guess things would be different if the tables were turned.

 

I like hanging out with them and being one of the guys. But what to do in the sticky situations?? For example, there's a group of 5 or 6 guys that I've been hanging around with for the past year. And everything was normal. I was one of the guys. They saw me as a friend, not as a girl (or so it seemed). They'd sit in front of me and talk to me about all the crude perverted locker room talk about girls..and I'm used to hearing that. I've put up with that. Nothing new.

 

Then one jerk had to come up and starts telling them what he thought about me...something along the lines of...I wanna hook up with her! And fed them some lines that made them all of a sudden notice me as some "chick" to hook up with, not as their friend. And then everything's weird. 2 or 3 of them all of a sudden start flirting with me and giving me signals that you don't give your friend, but that you give to someone you're trying to hook up with.

 

I tell you...when it rains, it pours. So then I end up feeling awkward around these guys, they end up feeling awkward for having told me this, and everything just screws up.

 

I know it's my fault for doing the following: becoming friends with a guy in the first place. I could be friends with a guy and not want to hook up with them after a while. But why can't some of my male friends do this?

 

I don't mean to say that only males do this. Many girls do this with their guy friends too.

 

Maybe I need to start meeting some girls. You know what though, it's so much harder to meet girls and become friends with them for some weird reason, I don't know why.

 

I guess it's like you're starting from scratch. These guys I've known...these girls I've known...and the girls have just gone their separate ways...weird.

 

Okay I'm making NO SENSE at all here. I just looked up at what I was writing and realized that I'm just rambling. I've confused even myself! Oh dear..hehehe I got lost. I don't know what I was trying to say. If anyone knows what I was trying to say, help me out here...

 

Ed, I've probably confused your mind 50 times as much!

 

It just messes things up between friends when feelings aren't mutual, doesn't it?

 

I would understand if I was sending them certain signals or if I was having sex with my guy friend, then of course they wouldn'd be just friends. But that's not happening, for sure.

 

Ed, explain this "opposite sex friendship" issue a little more. I can't get it out of my mind.

[Tony T]

Well, Ed, I do agree with most of what you said. But I think the subject of friendship in general is much more complex.

 

There are just so many types of friendships. Situational is the most common, that is, friendships with people at school, work, etc. These friendships are sort of created by a situation and usually cease when the people move on.

 

True friendships are very rare.

 

It seems you gave most consideration to male/female friendships. So, I'll limit my comments to that. No matter how you slice it, men and women are equipped for each other sexually. I think that most male/female friendships have a slight ingredient of sexual attraction. Maybe it is ever so slight but it is there.

 

Many of these friendships evolve into much more, most often for just one of the parties. That is a real bxtch. One or the other falls big time for the friend and then it gets real sticky. Sometimes they fall at the same time and it is absolutely great.

 

I didn't really understand what you were so upset about. I don't think any of this reality will ever change. It will always be difficult.

 

I will say there is nothing greater than having an absolute true friend of the opposite sex, just to exchange company and conversation, but long termers are rare. They both usually move on in some other direction when they get into other relationships, circles of friends, move out of town, etc.

 

I have to admit that I have had sex with a friend, a true friend, a dear friend...a number of times. It was very very special too. She is married now but we still communicate. I went to the wedding. I still love her dearly but in a friendship way. She has a kid now and I'm glad it's not mine.

 

I don't think about her sexually now...actually never did except when we were having sex. When we were sexually involved, I never thought of her as my lover. I thought of her as my dear friend. I never really thought about how I thought about her until I read your post. I guess this lady is pretty damned special in my life. She is actually one of my dearest friends. I think pulling this off has a lot to do with maturity and your zodiac signs, maybe.

 

I could write for hours about bad experiences with friendship, mostly ladies who I thought were friends but were actually out for one thing or another. When you think someone is your dear friend and one day you find out that all along they were just around to fulfill their agenda, it's pretty depressing.

 

Great subject. We'll talk more later.

[Ed]

Hi Sparkle,

 

I can't get it out of my head either.

 

When you mentioned - things getting all messed up when the guys started hitting on you - it reminded me of something that has bothered me for as long as can remember and I wish I could get past it. When I make friends with a girl and I have no other interest in her, I am much more comfortable and usually have a lot more fun than when I meet someone that I have a dating interest in. Even if I'm not flirting with them yet, it's like I'm not totally me, I'm holding back! As you described, I feel awkward, like a little boy with his first crush. I don't know what to say or how to say it. Why does the amount of romantic interest change the level of comfort one feels when getting to know someone better? I know it's not just me. Some of the ladies that I am friends with are the same way. The ones that have no romantic interest in me are much more comfortable around me and more fun for me to be around. Maybe it's some form of immaturity or insecurity...I don't know...It's so stupid!...I hate it and I wish I knew how to disable it.

 

I think more than anything though, this has to do with the fact that we are not as concerned about being judged by friends. And friends don't get so bent out of shape about stuff, the way lovers do. Friendships are the ultimate in low maintenance relationships. You can go days, weeks, months without seeing or talking to a friend. Then, one day, you just pick up where you left off - no hard feelings. But when love enters the picture - it's every frickin' day - Were you thinking of me? Did you do something for me today? Why didn't you call? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

GET A LIFE. WILL YA?

 

Sometimes it makes me want to run for the hills!

[Ed]

Hey Tony,

 

I'm glad you dropped in on this thread.

 

It's very interesting to go back and read something that I wrote. After reading your comments on this, I went back and read my original post and my other reply last night.

 

You know, I am upset! Seeins how I'm goin' through the Big "D" and don't mean Dallas. I am really upset about a lot of things right now. This forum is saving me a lot of money in counseling, thanks to all the LoveShack creators and contributors.

 

You hit on one of the big keys to this subject along with all the other subjects here. It's MATURITY. We could all use an extra shot. On second thought, I'll have a double, please.

 

Why is it so rare to find and hard to maintain the characteristics of the relationship you described? I mean in an everyday sense like in a typical committed relationship, marriage or whatever. Does it all come down to maturity? I too, have experienced something similar to the relationship you described. But when sex entered the picture, it changed things. Was I less mature, was she less mature after having sex? I think not, but what? I can't help but wonder if the closeness she and I shared would have continued had we not gone that far. I still think of her sometimes. She still thinks of me sometimes. But the real closeness we had is not there anymore. Maybe I'm thinking this way because I'm not enjoying that kind of closeness with anyone right now, except with you all. I think I need to turn the computer off now.........................