Mail-order bride

[outsidethebox]

It is different from OLD because women who wouldn't talk to you on OLD are interested in you as a foreign bride.

 

Yes, they are poorer and a long distance away.

 

There is no scamming going through an agency. You have to go offline on your own via email to be scammed. Scamming consists of sending money overseas because you're an idiot.

 

"More" gold digging? I doubt you have sufficent gold to attract gold diggers. That's high priced company.

 

The trip overseas to meet in person is the price of a foreign trip. People pay to travel overseas for other reasons as well.

 

You can require the girl speak English to be of interest to you. There is no reason there has to be a language barrier.

 

It is an attractive option because the girls are very attractive.

[taiko]

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread, as usual, from guys. It's like they just repeat stuff they have heard and have no idea what they're talking about. The other guys and girls here with some knowledge and experience, good posts.

 

Speaking from a US perspective, marrying a foreign woman is driven strictly by immigration requirements, specifically the fiance visa. It's fairly rare that a woman (as in mail order bride) from typical US foreign marriage countries has the money to make a trip to the US, and even if they did I have seen some information that US does not grant a visa to a young woman to travel to US without a sponsor, such as say school, work, etc. Or at least it's pretty difficult to get one for a visit is the way it's put.

 

The expense involved is a trip to a foreign country to meet women in person, a US immigration requirement. There is no such thing as getting around immigration visa requirements as one poster stated., other than obviously being an illegal immigrant and sneaking into the country.

 

To make this less abstract if an American is interested in a Latina the default nationality is Colombian, with Asians the Philippines and with "white" Russian is normally the rationality used but I would include any former Soviet bloc nationality under Russian. People come from other sources but the big three tend to dominate the "mail order" agencies. In most cases there are no two way visits because visitor visas are hard to come by because USCIS fears a young woman would over stay her visa, go TNT in Filipino slang. although net rumor in recent years says that Customs and Immigration are letting more people in

 

In my years I have never heard much from people specifically looking for Black women although some come from Colombia or Brazil and there are a few Filipino ethnic groups that can pass for black Americans

[outsidethebox]

good info, but want to stress again that these women do not have money to make a trip to US even if the could get visa. This is where the scam comes for ignorant (and cheap) American men. They get scammed via email that a woman, who includes pretty pictures of herself, will fly to him. All he has to do is send her money so she can get a visa and plane ticket.

 

Neither is very if at all possible, but men think golly gee, I just wire her some money and she comes here and she is mine. Scam appealing to the basest of a man's worthlessness. I actually don't mind seeing men like that lose their money. But of course then you get posters like we have here that can't understand who did the scamming and why it worked. Doubtful there was actually even a woman involved, except for the woman who was paid by a scammer to pose for a few snapshots to use in his con.

 

To add to the info, although we say Russian women the majority of available women are actually Ukranian women, from Ukraine south of Russia. I can't do justice in words how beautiful they are. And smart and philosophical. And fashionable. They are amazing women.

 

To add to the Asians are the Chinese. Compared to how large China is there are relatively few available, and they are more in 30's and 40's than 20's, but I don't think anyone ages as well as Chinese women. Just remarkably beautiful and nice.

 

I haven't communicated with any of these women, I don't want to start something I can't finish, but I read their words and all of these women are very sincere in seeking love. Like our American women in OLD, they also suffer from horrible American men and the way they act in communications. But agencies filter out the bad players so they don't have to endure what American women attempt for a short while at least to endure with OLD.

 

And I say all this in response to an OP I am quite sure does not understand that.

[thefooloftheyear]

It is different from OLD because women who wouldn't talk to you on OLD are interested in you as a foreign bride.

 

.

 

With all due respect....

 

Are they interested in them because of their charm and stunning good looks or because they have no options??

 

Seems like the latter...So what happens if they all of a sudden have "options"? Then what? Come to think of it I recall another sad story. One of my business customers met a beautiful young Columbian girl who was working as a maid in the hotel he was staying. They connected. He got her here. They married. In two years she was gone.

 

Could it work? Sure.. But the reality is that I dont care where you are or what country you are from. Few attractive, young ladies are going to fall head over heels over a 60 year old fat, bald guy unless there was some other motive(desperation, citizenship, etc).

 

My .02

 

TFY

[outsidethebox]

I'm pretty sure I said that in my post, but it bears repeating. Word to the wise.

 

I read profiles and messages from women of all ages. They have quite serious intentions but like any woman require to be treated with respect. If a guy thinks he's going to get a housemaid because she's foreign or something then yeah, they'll leave like an American woman would.

 

Divorce rate is not trivial, and so we can cite divorces like American couples. We can also cite success stories. There are women of every possibility, and choosing someone you're compatible with (90 day fiance visa to avoid a serious mistake) and want as a partner in life, they will be your partner as much or more as American woman.

 

I would say more.

[taiko]

With all due respect....

 

Are they interested in them because of their charm and stunning good looks or because they have no options??

 

And the guy looks because? Yes it is a desperate act. More so then eharm and the other local agencies because immigration's set to say no and their cut in fees. However there is really not a casual dating option because of the travel cost and both sides take a serious approach from the get go

[KathyM]

The women are only on there to get the green card. As soon as they get it, or as soon as they have a better option, they'll divorce the guy. Then the guy will be out a ton of money for nothing. In fact, I know a woman IRL who wants to move to Europe and is trying to talk some guy over there into marrying her. There is no love or attraction involved. As soon as she gets the green card, her plan is to divorce him right away. It doesn't work to try to circumvent real love or real feelings for a person. This scenario is only a business transaction. As soon as the woman gets what she wants, i.e., green card, she'll be looking for a divorce or a better option.

[Necris]

It is different from OLD because women who wouldn't talk to you on OLD are interested in you as a foreign bride.

 

Yes, they are poorer and a long distance away.

 

There is no scamming going through an agency. You have to go offline on your own via email to be scammed. Scamming consists of sending money overseas because you're an idiot.

 

"More" gold digging? I doubt you have sufficent gold to attract gold diggers. That's high priced company.

 

The trip overseas to meet in person is the price of a foreign trip. People pay to travel overseas for other reasons as well.

 

You can require the girl speak English to be of interest to you. There is no reason there has to be a language barrier.

 

It is an attractive option because the girls are very attractive.

 

You still have to pick the right agency, one that doesn't scam, 2nd you still have to deal with the whole get here, get married, and divorce immediately phenomenon, which is very common in these arrangements.

 

As for gold-digging if you have enough money to make regular trips overseas to see someone for a date you have enough "gold" to attract gold diggers, and that green card can be like gold for some. You don't have to be ultra rich to attract them, besides in comparison to some of the women you will meet you are rich. Let's face it she's not into you because of your incredible charm, good looks, and personality more often than not its what you can provide her.

 

As for the language barrier you are right you could just pick someone who speaks your language its not something that has to be there. Or learn a new language.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Necris

[outsidethebox]

You still have to pick the right agency, one that doesn't scam, 2nd you still have to deal with the whole get here, get married, and divorce immediately phenomenon, which is very common in these arrangements.

 

As for gold-digging if you have enough money to make regular trips overseas to see someone for a date you have enough "gold" to attract gold diggers, and that green card can be like gold for some. You don't have to be ultra rich to attract them, besides in comparison to some of the women you will meet you are rich. Let's face it she's not into you because of your incredible charm, good looks, and personality more often than not its what you can provide her.

 

As for the language barrier you are right you could just pick someone who speaks your language its not something that has to be there. Or learn a new language.

 

I have dealt with AFA for several years. They have an office in Phoenix and offices overseas and put out videos of tours on a regular basis.

 

You repeat an assertion that KathyM made. Neither of you have any facts to back it up. It is generalized gossip.

 

If you have enough money to make regular trips overseas, then yes, that's quite a bit of disposable income. We're talking about one trip as the requirement.

[taiko]

Tom Lykis used to say a joke in his Lykis 101 radio bit. "Look next to yourself when you wake up, that is the best that you can do" or something to that effect.

 

There are a couple of prejudices in play and no marriage versus divorce statistical provided will knock people off of them. First because the guy didn't attract the girl next door he is a loser. The second is because I have rejected the "till do us do part" code of conduct most others have also. So with that prejudiced world view a woman who "marries down" to get to a western nation, leaving all friends and family in the process, will automatically seek to do better. Meaning eye candy or sometimes a lover with a bigger bank account, the moment her immigration status is formalized and leave the loser who could not get the door next door, or anybody for that matter, besides buying a slave from a picture posted on the internet.

[Necris]

I have dealt with AFA for several years. They have an office in Phoenix and offices overseas and put out videos of tours on a regular basis.

 

You repeat an assertion that KathyM made. Neither of you have any facts to back it up. It is generalized gossip.

 

If you have enough money to make regular trips overseas, then yes, that's quite a bit of disposable income. We're talking about one trip as the requirement.

 

I agree that for most intelligent people avoiding scams isn't all that difficult I was just pointing out scamming is highly prevalent.

 

You are right I have no official statistics on these things (do they even have statistics for this?), my assertions come from what I've heard, documentaries people have done and such.

 

As for the money thing, wouldn't one trip be too little? You are choosing your wife you presumably want to be with "until death do us part". I would think you would most likely make several trips before rushing for the marriage. As you can get far more information about her out of face to face meetups then through mail/online. Plus she'd most likely want to make sure you aren't some crazy abuser before she goes and lives with you in an unfamiliar country.

[taiko]

They have statistics on the rates of marriage survival stemming from spousal visas and they are higher then the general rate for marriages. I doubt if there are any concerning people who met through an agency first.

[Necris]

besides buying a slave from a picture posted on the internet.

 

I'm pretty sure that isn't how it works.

 

Though sadly sex trafficking does happen, but that's an entirely different subject.

 

The whole "mail-order" bride thing is really just international OLD.

Edited May 3, 2013 by Necris

[taiko]

I'm pretty sure that isn't how it works.

 

Though sadly sex trafficking does happen, but that's an entirely different subject.

 

The whole "mail-order" bride thing is really just international OLD.

Its not I was posting from my phone without the smilies available. But it is the public perception that she, the "mail order bride" is a sex slave with no say in who she will marry or will marry anyone. Or that she is a prostitute with one customer who will retire the day she gets permanent residency approved.

[Necris]

Its not I was posting from my phone without the smilies available. But it is the public perception that she, the "mail order bride" is a sex slave with no say in who she will marry or will marry anyone. Or that she is a prostitute with one customer who will retire the day she gets permanent residency approved.

 

The whole sex slave thing is a terrible misconception but from what I've heard its basically OLD just international but the whole leaving you in 2 years thing is a very real possibility.

[KathyM]

There are no reliable, unbiased statistics on the subject of percentage of divorces among mail order brides. I'm just suggesting you be cautious, because there will be some who are just looking for the green card. Most come from Eastern Asia or Russia. Many don't speak English and need an interpreter in order to communicate. That kind of defeats the purpose of finding a companion if you can't communicate with her without an interpreter. Some might know very minimal English, enough to put a profile up. When you marry someone you don't know, then you really have no idea if you will be compatible, and meeting them once on a group outing is not a place you can really get to know someone. If you think finding someone from another country is your only option, you would be better off with regular OLD that is from an international site, where you can find a woman's profile, start talking to her online and getting to know her that way, and then traveling to the country for extended visits and taking your time in getting to know this person without the obligation or expectation of marrying them. And the regular international OLD sites don't cost much, and there is no obligation to "buy" a spouse or marry this person. I think that would be your best option, IMO. It would give you more time to get to know the person, and you would have no obligation for a quick marriage to someone you don't know. And it wouldn't cost thousands of dollars either. Try the international OLD sites, rather than the mail order bride sites, and take your time with it.

[outsidethebox]

I agree somewhat with KathyM's advice, the gist of it anyway. A couple of clarifications:

 

I don't understand any aspect of "international OLD" sites, as if women in Russia / Ukraine post profiles as if on OKC? There are numerous problems with this concept, if a legitimate one even exists. Dealing with a profile with no way to verify who you're dealing with is basically scam bait. It's ridiculous to even suggest. You would communicate, build trust, etc. and they would have a girl who would talk on phone through an interpreter if you tried to verify with phone calls. But basically that's where the scammers operate, through unverified sites like that. And guys will send money and lose as much as they can bilk you for. Not sure why anyone would suggest this unless they just totally have no idea what they're talking about.

 

The large agencies have offices over there and networks of people, and verify the profiles. That's one of their most important functions.

Money. Keeps getting mentioned. The cost of traveling overseas is the cost. It's a US immigration requirement that it be done. Doing it on your own will likely be more expensive and much more difficult.

 

Multiple trips overseas is certainly ideal but not many will not have the money to do that, while also preparing a home for a bride and losing income on multiple extended leaves. So how is it done in one trip?

 

The extended communications before and after trip is necessary, and on the trip you will meet multiple women, at least on a tour with an agency. And when you do make the fiance visa commitment, it's for a 90 day stay so there's an opportunity to get to each other as it will be after marriage and avoid a complete disaster.

 

Lastly, internet access can be somewhat limited and the agency provides that for the women.

 

There's probably more but that's a start.

[outsidethebox]

A poster above said there were spousal statistics for fiance visa. I know government wants to avoid problems in this area, so it is not an unknown as suggested.

 

AFA keeps statistics of their clients, and I would suggest they are less biased than certain posters.

[Necris]

I agree somewhat with KathyM's advice, the gist of it anyway. A couple of clarifications:

 

I don't understand any aspect of "international OLD" sites, as if women in Russia / Ukraine post profiles as if on OKC? There are numerous problems with this concept, if a legitimate one even exists. Dealing with a profile with no way to verify who you're dealing with is basically scam bait. It's ridiculous to even suggest. You would communicate, build trust, etc. and they would have a girl who would talk on phone through an interpreter if you tried to verify with phone calls. But basically that's where the scammers operate, through unverified sites like that. And guys will send money and lose as much as they can bilk you for. Not sure why anyone would suggest this unless they just totally have no idea what they're talking about.

 

The large agencies have offices over there and networks of people, and verify the profiles. That's one of their most important functions.

Money. Keeps getting mentioned. The cost of traveling overseas is the cost. It's a US immigration requirement that it be done. Doing it on your own will likely be more expensive and much more difficult.

 

Multiple trips overseas is certainly ideal but not many will not have the money to do that, while also preparing a home for a bride and losing income on multiple extended leaves. So how is it done in one trip?

 

The extended communications before and after trip is necessary, and on the trip you will meet multiple women, at least on a tour with an agency. And when you do make the fiance visa commitment, it's for a 90 day stay so there's an opportunity to get to each other as it will be after marriage and avoid a complete disaster.

 

Lastly, internet access can be somewhat limited and the agency provides that for the women.

 

There's probably more but that's a start.

 

I know agencies are supposed to provide a way for you two to both contact each other, offer possible translation services, allegedly verify profiles, and help with foreign tours. You have more knowledge than me on these matters but I think international OLD is the closest analogy just with a little extra.

 

Now what I don't get is why would someone tell a struggling guy to try the "mail-order" bride thing? If anything it sounds far more difficult than even regular dating. I could see people using it going through agencies and such if they are experienced but for whatever reason can't seem to find the right woman in their own home country or perhaps they want to experience something different so they try it.

[KathyM]

I agree somewhat with KathyM's advice, the gist of it anyway. A couple of clarifications:

 

I don't understand any aspect of "international OLD" sites, as if women in Russia / Ukraine post profiles as if on OKC?

Yes, they post profiles, just like they do on OKC and any other OLD site. No different. You will have the same risks just like everyone else who does OLD. Some profiles will be fake. The mail order bride sites have some fake profiles as well. And some are scams.

There are numerous problems with this concept, if a legitimate one even exists.

Plenty of international OLD sites. We even see them advertised on LS.

Dealing with a profile with no way to verify who you're dealing with is basically scam bait. It's ridiculous to even suggest.

You would verify just like you do with any OLD site. Phone calls, webcam, and eventual meetings.

And guys will send money and lose as much as they can bilk you for. Not sure why anyone would suggest this unless they just totally have no idea what they're talking about.

I'm not suggesting anyone send money. On the contrary, the international OLD websites are either free or low cost. The mail order bride sites, on the other hand, cost a ton of money.

The large agencies have offices over there and networks of people, and verify the profiles. That's one of their most important functions.

So in other words, you are paying the mail order bride sites to do what you can do yourself. Verify the identity of the women. I think I'd rather trust myself to verify information than pay thousands of dollars for an agency that could be a scam to be claiming to have verified the woman's identity.

Money. Keeps getting mentioned. The cost of traveling overseas is the cost. It's a US immigration requirement that it be done. Doing it on your own will likely be more expensive and much more difficult.

It's not difficult to fly to another country. It's not rocket science. And it's a lot cheaper than hiring these mail order bride agencies.

 

Multiple trips overseas is certainly ideal but not many will not have the money to do that.

If they have the thousands required to hire these mail order bride companies, they would have the money to pay for their own plane ticket to visit. They don't need a middle man to charge a fortune for this.

losing income on multiple extended leaves. So how is it done in one trip?

There is such a thing as paid vacations, you know. And I would not suggest making such a decision as important as marriage after just one visit.

The extended communications before and after trip is necessary, and on the trip you will meet multiple women, at least on a tour with an agency. And when you do make the fiance visa commitment, it's for a 90 day stay so there's an opportunity to get to each other as it will be after marriage and avoid a complete disaster.

Huh? You have to commit to marry them with mail order bride companies and pay these companies thousands of dollars before the woman will travel to your country, and then you have ninety days to marry her, or she will have to go back. That's making a huge financial obligation BEFORE really getting to know the person well enough to decide to marry them.

Lastly, internet access can be somewhat limited and the agency provides that for the women.

 

There's probably more but that's a start.

There's no commitment or promise to marry if you go the normal OLD route. You have plenty of time to get to know the woman, through correspondence, through webcams, through other forms of verification, and through visiting them in person as often and as long as you are interested/able to do so. No pressure. No obligation. Women from a different culture that would be interested in getting to know you without any middle man charging thousands of dollars who may, in fact, be a scam, and where there is way too short of a time to make such a huge commitment as marriage. I sure wouldn't pay an agency for something I could do myself (communicate with and meet women from other countries). And I sure wouldn't want to "purchase" a spouse and make such a huge commitment as marriage in such a short time. A lot of these mail order bride companies are also engaging in human trafficking. Where there is profit to be made, there are often exploiters, and this is one industry that engages in human trafficking.

Edited May 3, 2013 by KathyM

[outsidethebox]

I know agencies are supposed to provide a way for you two to both contact each other, offer possible translation services, allegedly verify profiles, and help with foreign tours. You have more knowledge than me on these matters but I think international OLD is the closest analogy just with a little extra.

 

Now what I don't get is why would someone tell a struggling guy to try the "mail-order" bride thing? If anything it sounds far more difficult than even regular dating. I could see people using it going through agencies and such if they are experienced but for whatever reason can't seem to find the right woman in their own home country or perhaps they want to experience something different so they try it.

 

Because you are guaranteed to find someone that is willing to talk to you and marry you if you're not worse than what they have at home, and they really don't have many options at home. If one does not get greedy and go for a luscious babe (as hard as that is not to do) then the "options" you folks are so fond of talking about for the foreign bride are not so great that guys are after her to leave you.

 

As for the list at top of your post, agencies are businesses. They offer services to help make their business a success. They don't want to see failures and proactively help avoid them.

[bac]

Funnily enough earlier today I got a call from my parents and somehow the conversation came back to my total lack of any dating success with women, and my dad suggested trying the whole mail-order bride thing. I simply laughed and dismissed it as a joke, he was actually serious surprisingly.

 

I'm not going to do it (perhaps when I'm 40 and still in the same situation it may look more attractive), though I was curious how does that work? Isn't that just basically extremely long-distance generally online dating with people in developing countries mixed with hefty amounts of scamming to separate you from your money?

 

What country do you have in mind? How old are you?

You do not need any agency. You can go online to talk with foreign women from dating sites. If you have good conversations with a girl, call her. Then, go to the foreign country and meet the girl in a few months of the conversations. Then, if you want to get married, ask the girl to marry you. She will probably say 'Yes'.

Edited May 4, 2013 by bac

[bac]

So, basically like I said isn't this essentially the same as "regular" online dating except you are generally dealing with poorer women a long distance away, and just with more scamming, far more expensive RL dates, and of course more gold-digging and more language barriers?

 

Not sure why this seems like an attractive option to the guys who go through with it.

 

It is about the same as regular dating. More language barriers is great because the foreign women would never know that the american guy is hopeless loser and jerk. They would not be able to figure out how terrible the guy is because of the language barriers. So, all the beautiful young women would treat you as you are an alpha man of their dreams. The dating would be amazing because you both will have no clue about each other.

As for gold-digging, there are no gold-digging in dating the poorer women.

A man just pays for everything with no exceptions. That is very expensive but it puts a man in position of absolute power. Your woman is going listen to you and do whatever you want because you are the one who pays for everything.

[PogoStick]

^^^ So wrong as you'll see in my reply.

 

I'll throw in that I married a Russian woman (A Ukrainian/Tatar woman who grew up in Uzbekistan, if you want to get technical) who I met in a college statistics class. We studied and did homework together, and the rest is history. I can't count how many times we were insulted by someone asking/joking if she was mail-order. It's crazy how people don't think before they speak.

 

I found Russia to be very much a mirror image of the US, which made the cold war seem so crazy. The family unit, their goals and lifestyle are quite similar to the western world. Part of the reason mail order became popular was because so many men were lost to the military, and others to alcoholism; simple math of not enough men.

 

Here's what I'll stereotype about Russian women. They come from hugely varying backgrounds so some may come from very desperate conditions. However, many know English pretty well, and have a strong education (often better than Americans despite the poor conditions). They're very loving and have close small families, with less money it's important for relatives to all help each other. On a negative note, they can be materialistic as it's important to display one's status via cars, jewelry, clothes, etc.

 

But here's the problem for a man resorting to mail order. Russian women are very strong willed and have high expectations of their man. They are intelligent, sophisticated, and classy. If you can't woo a woman in the US then what makes you think you can do it with a foreign woman? In their country, money is scarce which makes social skills even more important. Finding women in this manner just magnifies your lack of such skills. In the end, she may let you provide for her financially and even have your children, but she'll likely despise you, rarely agree to have sex with you, and quite possibly have an affair with a man who knows how to attract a woman in the first place.

[outsidethebox]

in other words, just like American women if your behavior warrants it.

 

But you will find someone to agree to try. The rest is up to you.

 

Congrats on marrying the Ukranian woman. I have the highest respect for them.