That's not Karma - THIS - is Karma - !!

[TaraMaiden]

" There is a transforming process between the white and the black substances. ....Both substances can be found in the human body."

 

This is total fantasy, and has no foundation in Buddhist thinking.

It is not Buddhism. Buddhists do not prescribe to this nonsense.

 

I'm sorry, I try to not respond to trolls, but I had to interject here.

 

It's complete rubbish.

[Eve]

Alternative perspectives are always good, especially as this is not my cultural heritage being discussed.

 

It seems like ufrocks1969 was quoting from the Falun Gong? I have never heard of this personally so was intrigued. I knew buddhism wasn't without differing interpretations but was not sure who, how or what. Not sure about the whole being punished for not quoting verbatim though. That does not sound very nice, lol.

 

As far as I can see this seems to be an alternate view of karma, with some other stuff chucked in for full measure. The fourth book looks at the history of buddhism. I am not sure how accurate this is but it is pretty interesting stuff.

 

H'mmm.. there is something about buddhism which always catches my eye but I have never come across any of it's scriptures to look any further. That was my interest here.

 

Teachings of Falun Gong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Take care,

Eve x

[TaraMaiden]

I can not just freely say anything from the book. Because those wouldn't my words. I can only state my understand after quoting the text.

I am not attacking the OP and it was directly related to the subject. I am only trying to do the right thing that's all.

 

If I was to just say things from the book without quoting I would be punished.

Punished for what?

By whom?

Why??

 

HOW - ??

 

It astounds me that something designed to liberate one from Suffering is taken so anally and strictly as to incite fear of reprisals and punishment.

This is not the way The Buddha sought to pass on his wisdom.

 

It is ridiculous to be so tied and confined so that to interpret teachings is thought to commit a punishable sin.

 

He expressedly advised people to avoid such restrictive thinking, and to express and discern for themselves what worked and what didn't.

Such strict adherence to a policy basically only in existence since the early 90's is to deny and denounce everything the Buddha taught through his disciples, in the preceding 2,500 years.....

 

Incidentally, I am also a qualified Qi Gong Teacher.

Edited May 5, 2013 by TaraMaiden

[th90]

Ufcrocks1969, please dont hijack this thread. You can bring your discussion elsewhere, maybe in your own new thread?

 

For all we know, falun dafa isnt buddhism. It's like bringing christianity into the subject of buddhism and commence a pointless argument.

 

We all are subjected to our own opinions and we can choose whichever religion we want to. As for buddhism, we are encouraged to share the gift of the dharma. Please understand buddhism is buddhism, it's an entirely different religion from falun dafa, taoism, hinduism, sikhism, etc.

[th90]

Well OP did mention Hinduism. No and I'm not highjacking the thread. She is talking about Karma and mixing with Hinduism with Buddhism. Maybe you should read the OP's first before commenting.

 

Yes. But she mentioned it to distinguish the different concepts of karma in buddhism and hinduism. People tend to mix these religions up since they come from the same place of origin. Mind you, she did not mix, she distinguished them for our understanding.

 

On the other hand, you clearly disagree with OP's kind initiatives to share her knowledge of karma and dharma by bringing in your perceptions of falun dafa which isnt buddhism.

 

Like i said, we are entitled to our own opinions. However bringing in a different religion when discussing another religion is rather senseless. Which is why i suggested to you that you should start your on thread on falun dafa if you wanted to discuss about its teaching than to question the OP's ways of buddhism.

[CompleteFailure]

Why is it saddening?

It should be an absolute joy - a 'lightbulb' moment!

 

Suddenly we see it clearly - happiness, contentment and personal peace begins with ourselves - our exes may be screwed up - but we see clearly how - and why - this has all come about - and we can accept it as something that just happens - and rise above it!

 

To have a realisation of this kind is actually extremely 'character-building'.

We 'get it'.

And by getting it - we actually enable ourselves to digest matters more maturely.....

 

we have the ability - and perfect, golden opportunity - to Transform.

 

That's a pretty big moment, right there.....

 

It's saddening because if you don't believe in it(but it indeed exists) or you aren't ready/willing to change, it's still building up against you until finally the straw breaks and you get screwed again. *dumpees perspective here*

[TheFinalWord]

Overall, very informative post TaraM. It's cool to see others of different spiritual persuasions putting their beliefs out there for all to read, review, and critique.

 

I'm sorry, I try to not respond to trolls, but I had to interject here. It's complete rubbish.

 

As I have found in attempting to educate about my beliefs here, no good deed goes unpunished

 

Ufcrocks1969, I have found that if there is a disagreement about religion/spirituality, it is best to try to be as considerate as possible (spirituality is the deepest part of a person's being...their core, if you will; criticizing a person's spirituality is often viewed as a very personal attack; tact is required. If the person is sincerely asking questions or disagrees with respect, it goes a long way). Sometimes your posts come across as accusatory. When that happens, the discussions go down hill and basically turn into "my dad can beat up your dad" until eventually someone makes a comparison to Hitler and then Godwin's law applies. Just my two cents. Tara has been studying this belief a long time; maybe you have too. But you might begin by laying out your opinion for review as well, while respecting the belief that Tara holds. "Seek to understand, then to be understood" -- Stephen Covey (RIP). Peace.

Edited May 6, 2013 by TheFinalWord

[TaraMaiden]

Well OP did mention Hinduism. No and I'm not highjacking the thread. She is talking about Karma and mixing with Hinduism with Buddhism. Maybe you should read the OP's first before commenting.

 

I didn't mix Hinduism with Buddhism.

I DIFFERENTIATED between Hinduism and Buddhism.

 

Buddhism has a different take on the matter. The Buddha taught that we have the ability to exercise free Will.

 

Maybe YOU should read the OP's first post before commenting.

[TaraMaiden]

It's saddening because if you don't believe in it(but it indeed exists) or you aren't ready/willing to change, it's still building up against you until finally the straw breaks and you get screwed again. *dumpees perspective here*

 

The whole point is to first know about it.

If you're unaware, then you're not going to be able to digest it.

 

Someone who is in a high state of distress, and has a broken heart and emotions all over the place, is not going to be receptive to this, in that state of mind.

And it would be wrong to try to impress it upon them...

One has to pick one's moments....!

 

It's rather like the tragedy of 9/11.... Shortly after it happened, Richard Gere publicly commented on the catastrophe and urged people to find compassion in their hearts and not speak of revenge or hatred.

 

Good message.

Bad timing.

Really bad.

No, I mean, really, REALLY bad.

 

Quite naturally, he was slated for it.

And although I agree with his point - the timing of his message could not have been worse.

I have a reputation for being very 'in your face', 'tell-it-like-it-is' almost ruthless.

 

But I can only assure you honestly, that every time I whup someone's ass, I do it with Metta and Karuna. (Look 'em up )

 

(I do have a tendency though, to get a bit impatient when they persist in dwelling in the "Woe is me" attitude..... Might need to work on that aspect a bit more..... )

Edited May 6, 2013 by TaraMaiden

[TaraMaiden]

Who's your master? Which Qi Gong style?

Sadly, I have a feeling that even if I told you, you wouldn't consider it legitimate, bona fide or correct.

And you have not responded to my prior question to you with regard to this 'punishment' you fear...

But then, I suppose you could cite the same rationale as I....

 

I think you're confused.

 

I am now.... I have no idea what you mean by this.

[TaraMaiden]

...And I would add, that if you're where you say you are, any fear of punishment or retribution, is completely unfounded, and irrational.

 

There is no Punishment meted out for free-thinking, in Canada.

[TheFinalWord]

TaraM,

 

Is it accurate to say Karma is cause and effect; that we are the cause and Karma is the effect? Or is that a misrepresentation? Thanks.

[TaraMaiden]

TaraM,

 

Is it accurate to say Karma is cause and effect; that we are the cause and Karma is the effect? Or is that a misrepresentation? Thanks.

 

Loosely speaking, Karma' is cause, 'Vipaka' is effect...

Whatever we do volitionally - on purpose, with aforethought, deliberately - is karmic.

in a way, I've opened up a can of worms, because Karma is a huge subject - it has Buddhists engaging in debates, discussions and even arguments in its profundity.

 

The bottom line is, the buck stops *here*.....

 

The Buddha taught:

 

There are these five facts that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained. Which five?

 

I am subject to ageing, have not gone beyond ageing.

I am subject to illness, have not gone beyond illness.

I am subject to death, have not gone beyond death.

I will grow different, separate from all that is dear and appealing to me.

 

I am the owner of my Karma, heir to my Karma, born of my Karma, related to my Karma. Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir.

Basically - the responsibility for ourselves, in our entirety - is ours, and ours alone.

 

 

 

Basic lines of karma involve cause and effect. In practice I believe one finds the causation of effects to be completely internal, and not an external experience. There is no "She cheated on me, now he will cheat on her" machine in the sky, controlling cause and effect and ensuring there is balance throughout the universe.

 

All is chaos. To chaos, all will return. Not to jack Tara's reply. The basic wish thinking premise of karma is described as "reap what you sow" but again this applies only to the wish thinking, seething mass of bitter humanity. Not many out there want to take responsibility for their actions.

 

Good points.

Thanks for sharing that.

[TheFinalWord]

Loosely speaking, Karma' is cause, 'Vipaka' is effect...

Whatever we do volitionally - on purpose, with aforethought, deliberately - is karmic.

 

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks.

 

in a way, I've opened up a can of worms, because Karma is a huge subject - it has Buddhists engaging in debates, discussions and even arguments in its profundity.

 

The bottom line is, the buck stops *here*.....

 

That's totally understandable. Christianity (as I'm sure you know lol) is the same way. Not only are some of the "higher" theological concepts difficult to summarize in a thread/post a lot of the understanding is qualitative in nature. If you have studied this topic for a few decades, it is difficult to translate all of that knowledge to a new comer in a post...or even series of posts. That is because a lot of spiritual growth and understanding occurs through study, rumination, application, and reflection.

 

For example, with Christian theology, the ability to synthesize various concepts and principles is important to understanding doctrine. That is one reason why it is hard to debate someone that has only conducted a cursory study of a religion, b/c their understanding is basically siloed. Plus for most belief systems, one can get caught up becoming an expert in theology and practical application is lost.

 

For myself, if someone can back up what they say with practical application that amplifies the main tenants of a belief system, it is good for me (I personally think that is the best outcome you can hope for in an Internet dialogue). You've done that for me with this thread. Thanks for your time

[TaraMaiden]

I think you sum it up very nicely.

It's almost impossible for me to communicate what I know, and engage in an expansive discussion - for precisely the reasons you state.

 

I am particularly careful to always advise those who engage in a discussion with me, on such matters, to also research the specific topic in question, for themselves; to not take my word for it as verbatim - because there is more than one way to skin the rabbit.

 

but I pass on what I know, and what works for me with every good intention, and honesty.

 

Thank you for reading.

 

[Grumpybutfun]

I pass on what I know, and what works for me with every good intention, and honesty.

 

 

 

 

That is the only way people can truly learn about different religions, beliefs or ideaologies without becoming alienated, confrontational or offended.

This thread is very informative and I have really liked how the OP didn't debate, but shared her knowledge and her personal experiences with those who asked very poignant questions.

Great conversations here.

Grumps

[TaraMaiden]

Thank you Grumpy.

 

[youdunsay]

Alternative perspectives are always good, especially as this is not my cultural heritage being discussed.

 

It seems like ufrocks1969 was quoting from the Falun Gong? I have never heard of this personally so was intrigued. I knew buddhism wasn't without differing interpretations but was not sure who, how or what. Not sure about the whole being punished for not quoting verbatim though. That does not sound very nice, lol.

 

As far as I can see this seems to be an alternate view of karma, with some other stuff chucked in for full measure. The fourth book looks at the history of buddhism. I am not sure how accurate this is but it is pretty interesting stuff.

 

H'mmm.. there is something about buddhism which always catches my eye but I have never come across any of it's scriptures to look any further. That was my interest here.

 

Teachings of Falun Gong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Take care,

Eve x

 

Please note: Falun Gong isn't Buddhism and has nothing to do with it. It is a cult not a religion, created by some people trying to deceit their followers to acquire some form of power by performing their cult practices, which are illegal. Google through the 90s news you'll see it.

[TaraMaiden]

Thanks for your contribution.

You're absolutely right.

What actually happened is that we had an enthusiast/exponent of falun Gong on here who basically 'mass-trolled' the thread with a huge amount of 'propaganda'.

Their posts have been removed, and they're no longer a member.

[TaraMaiden]

In the first post of this thread, I explained that the Buddha sought to help those over-thinking the subject, and advised that the matter of Karma and its workings is 'an Unconjecturable'.

 

However, if it helps, he also contributed this, and I hope it helps further....

 

" 'I am subject to aging, have not gone beyond aging.' This is the first fact that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained.

 

'I am subject to illness, have not gone beyond illness'. This is the second fact...(continues as above).

 

'I am subject to death, have not gone beyond death'. This is the third fact...(continues as above).

 

'I will grow different, separate from all that is dear and appealing to me'. This is the fourth fact...(continues as above).

 

'I am the owner of my actions (KAMMA/KARMA), heir to my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, and have my actions as my arbitrator. Whatever I do, for good or for evil, to that will I fall heir'. This is the fifth fact...(continues as above).

 

These are the five facts that one should reflect on often, whether one is a woman or a man, lay or ordained."

 

[AN 5.57]

Edited March 31, 2014 by TaraMaiden

[fritilaria]

Very nice thread. I think you must have done a Goenka retreat or two, Tara?

 

Whenever people ask me about karma I throw out the old "For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" as it does give a good basic idea of what kamma/karma is about and is an easy-to-remember quote that also builds Buddhist-Christian bridges. Lord [whichever you choose] knows we need to find things in common…

[angel.eyes]

In re-reading this resurrected thread, I'm wondering about the name of the book your mom sent you, TaraMaiden. Would you be open to sharing the title?

 

.....

Then, one day, (1992) my Roman Catholic mother (of all people) sent me a book.

A Buddhist book. With a note.

 

"I thought you might like to read this, it's very interesting."

 

BOOM.

 

Every single word I read, had a massive impact, resonated, had meaning and hit me square between the eyes.

I felt as if this book had been written with the sole purpose of my reading it - it had been published exclusively for me.

I began to highlight all the passages I found instructive - but gave up.

There was more highlighted than not, and truly, the book began to look ridiculous....

[Allumere]

very informative thread...thanks TaraM. I enjoy learning about other religions and belief systems....caught a short blip on Saturday about Sikhism and was fascinated. I think I get drawn in as there are often such strong cultural components and it commonalities interest me.

[angel.eyes]

Thanks, TM. I downloaded the book. I'm sure it will be an interesting read.