Kids - which is worse, high conflict or A and leave?

[Henni]

A bad marriage with an affair and the WS leaves and is happy...what happens to the BS? Is he/she in the kids lives? Is he/she angry and bitter and broken and showing this daily to the kids? I don't think its healthy for parents to pit against each other, even unintentionally. When you talk bad about a parents its always hurtful to a child bc that person is a part of them.

Assuming that doesn't happen- kids just want to be in a happy environment. It can be a blended family or a situation where parents aren't together. As long as the kids see a happy parent who gives them the attention that they are due and makes them feel loved and a priority.

 

A toxic marriage without an affair. This is interesting because I got a call from a friend today in one of these. Its escalated out of control with phases of either cold silence (they only will email), snakiness, or out of control fighting. This has been the case for the kids whole lives. Their 10 year old daughter has so many problems. Always nauseous, high anxiety and other problems that the therapist says are caused by environment. She has bad dreams nightly. The son is just aggressive, but he's younger.

 

In my childhood I lived with two parents who did not get along. It was always tense...like at least 60% of the time. I would literally hate eating dinner or being in a room with them because I always was afraid something was going to happen. I can still remember when the tone of voice would change and I'd get a knot in my stomach...like 'oh crap is this going to be a big, medium or small fight and how long will it last and its after affects (cold war silent treatment)'

 

I remember wishing that if i could have anything in the world i'd have parents who loved each other enough for it to show. If I saw them hug it was the best day in the world. I used to feel upset that they had so much power over my emotional world...why couldn't they just get along or split up?

 

There were times when my dad had to travel...the whole world used to light up and it seemed like that whole house was different. It would've been hard to adjust to them living apart but it wouldn't have been the end of the world.

 

In my A, my exMM used to say the kids would get so upset when they would fight that the 9 year old would cry that he didn't want them living together and the older kids would take the younger ones into a room and close the door to protect them. I know what that kind of stress feels like. It affects you the rest of your life.

 

I am newly D due to my A. I personally feel sad and terrible but my kids are thriving after 8 months of us living apart. I look at them and realize that I want them to dream big when it comes to love and relationships. I don't want them to think a marriage is how ours was at the end. Kids model what they see.

 

At the end of the day- I'd rather be from a broken home than live in one.

 

Thanks for your post, your situation with your parent's marriage sounds very similar indeed to the situation of the children I'm concerned for.

[Henni]

Yes...it is more desirable than an affair. Crazy with integrity trumps crazy without.

 

I'm talking about a subsequent loving relationship, not a crazy one. Obviously, if both situations involve crazy relationships, that's a different situation.

[Praying4Peace]

Yes...it is more desirable than an affair. Crazy with integrity trumps crazy without.

 

But I think she said to assume a situation where the subsequent relationship is happy and healthy...not crazy? Just trying to stick to the OP's question.

 

I vote for NO TOXIC MARRIAGE! You can plant the most beautiful flower but if the soil is rotten nothings going to come up healthy.

 

The kids might be upset now but as long as everyone acts respectful to each other AND them and their feelings (don't have the AP try and replace a parent) when they grow up they will know what love looks like.

[Furious]

No, i'm not implying that my MM would not be divorcing if I had not come along. It was already in the plans. I agree that the marriage ending first is preferable, but that's not the way it is, which is why i've defined the two circumstances I would like to compare pretty clearly.

 

 

Actions speak louder than words, if he wanted to leave his marriage it seems quite coincidental he decides to divorce after being in an affair.

 

If a parent is truly concerned for their children's well being and does not want them to suffer one day longer in a dysfunctional home it would be their primary goal and not be sidestepped into an affair.

 

I know if my children were witnessing a toxic home life I'd be focused on them and not partaking in an affair.

[Henni]

My parents marriage became toxic because of my father's affair and him continuing the affair for many years. I don't recall fighting or great discord before his affair, it just wasn't there but it was hell after.

 

Ok, so this wasn't a high conflict marriage before the affair and there wasn't an exit to a loving relationship after it? If so, then it's not either of the circumstances I want to compare.

[Spark1111]

Thank you. That sounds really hard for both your parents.

 

For you, as a child, do you think it was better or worse for your long term happiness that they chose to separate? Was the marriage high conflict when they were together? Just trying to figure out which of the two circumstances i've defined was your experience, and if there was a high conflict marriage, which you were witness to, do you think this situation would have been preferable to a break up, even with the break up being preceded by an affair? I'm genuinely asking this with good reasons.

 

I understand.

 

The tensions between them had built to the point where, initially, I felt relief when they separated. tension, which you could cut with a knife,at times, was,gone.....

 

BUT, as a child, as In ALL relationships, I could only remember the good times....and I mourned the loss of those.... For a very long time.

 

Plus, in my sitch, they were never as good, as strong, as happy with others....as they had been during the best times when they had been together, with me, my parents.

 

of course my perception was skewed and biased as their child. But, like I have posted before, I did not care about their romantic happiness so if they did achieve that with another....I could have cared less.

 

Like ALL children, I could only remember mom and dad at their best: In love with each other, happy and loving and supporting me.

 

Those are the memories all children will hold on to....no matter what happens to the marriage.

[Praying4Peace]

I just wanted to add...kids fear the Unknown just as much as adults do.

 

If a parent is with a new partner there is fear because its a big change. Will my parent love me like they used to? What will happen? Etc. Its the parents job to alleviate these fears.

 

As compared to living in the war zone...its not as scary because its 'same old, same old."

 

The war zone gives short term comfort and long term damage.

The new relationship gives short term fear and long term comfort.

 

Just my opinion, I do enjoy reading everyone's comments.

[Henni]

Actions speak louder than words, if he wanted to leave his marriage it seems quite coincidental he decides to divorce after being in an affair.

 

If a parent is truly concerned for their children's well being and does not want them to suffer one day longer in a dysfunctional home it would be their primary goal and not be sidestepped into an affair.

 

I know if my children were witnessing a toxic home life I'd be focused on them and not partaking in an affair.

 

He decided to divorce before the affair, actually, but of course it became more urgent to do so once we realised our feelings for each other.

[William]

Pursuant to the title and location of the thread, it will focus on the children and how they relate to marital dynamics. This will not be a thread to discuss affairs, rather differing marital dynamics and which is 'worse' for children, specifically 'high conflict' or 'A and leave', relevant to children. Thanks.

[Henni]

 

If a parent is with a new partner there is fear because its a big change. Will my parent love me like they used to? What will happen? Etc. Its the parents job to alleviate these fears.

 

As compared to living in the war zone...its not as scary because its 'same old, same old."

 

The war zone gives short term comfort and long term damage.

The new relationship gives short term fear and long term comfort.

 

 

I think I can agree with that, P4P.

[Spark1111]

I just wanted to add...kids fear the Unknown just as much as adults do.

 

If a parent is with a new partner there is fear because its a big change. Will my parent love me like they used to? What will happen? Etc. Its the parents job to alleviate these fears.

 

As compared to living in the war zone...its not as scary because its 'same old, same old."

 

The war zone gives short term comfort and long term damage.

The new relationship gives short term fear and long term comfort.

 

Just my opinion, I do enjoy reading everyone's comments.

 

maybe......

 

again I return to how the leaving parent handles both the marriage, the stbx spouse and the transition period to a new normal.

[Henni]

I understand.

 

The tensions between them had built to the point where, initially, I felt relief when they separated. tension, which you could cut with a knife,at times, was,gone.....

 

BUT, as a child, as In ALL relationships, I could only remember the good times....and I mourned the loss of those.... For a very long time.

 

Plus, in my sitch, they were never as good, as strong, as happy with others....as they had been during the best times when they had been together, with me, my parents.

 

of course my perception was skewed and biased as their child. But, like I have posted before, I did not care about their romantic happiness so if they did achieve that with another....I could have cared less.

 

Like ALL children, I could only remember mom and dad at their best: In love with each other, happy and loving and supporting me.

 

Those are the memories all children will hold on to....no matter what happens to the marriage.

 

I can imagine that children will mourn happier times between mom and dad, but, I can also imagine that many children whose parents were high conflict will also hold on to memories of the fear and tension they felt. Especially if there were no super happy times during their lifetime. No?

[bentnotbroken]

I'm talking about a subsequent loving relationship, not a crazy one. Obviously, if both situations involve crazy relationships, that's a different situation.

 

 

Yes...crazy relationship trumps loving cheating.

[Spark1111]

Again, I reiterate that children are no different than those among us who hate change, not of our own volition, being fostered upon us faster that our own choosing.

 

The DEVIL you know is better that the one you do not know. For children who find routine translating into security, it is maybe even more true.

 

So, generally, when people fall in love and want to share their feelings with their children....hum, no....it is not going over well. it is too much too quickly for kids.

 

I just want see adults exercise PATIENCE and discretion when it comes to kids. few do and THAT rush to personal romantic happiness damages kids. IT is too much too soon. It overwhelms children and causes damage.

[Furious]

This is not related to the question I posted for discussion.

 

Ok, let me say that a parent who is concerned for their children's well being and see's that their home life is toxic then they'd not delay their children's best interest by choosing to have an affair and then find the time to divorce their spouse.

 

If a parent is concerned for what' best for their children that would be their focus.

[Henni]

I wouldn't want my kids to grow up thinking cheating and lying is what love looks like.

 

No, neither would I. I wouldn't want them to grow up thinking constant conflict is what love looks like either. That's why I want to compare that the situation where there is an affair, the WS leaves, and there is a subsequent loving relationship, i.e. a new relationship without lying and cheating or conflict.

[Henni]

Yes...crazy relationship trumps loving cheating.

 

Well, they are not cheating anymore once the marriage is over, that's a temporary thing while getting divorced.

 

Do you still think in those circumstances it's healthier for the kids to stay in a high conflict home?

[bentnotbroken]

Well, they are not cheating anymore once the marriage is over, that's a temporary thing while getting divorced.

 

Do you still think in those circumstances it's healthier for the kids to stay in a high conflict home?

 

 

If the cheater married the person they cheated with....my answer is the same.

[Henni]

Ok, let me say that a parent who is concerned for their children's well being and see's that their home life is toxic then they'd not delay their children's best interest by choosing to have an affair and then find the time to divorce their spouse.

 

If a parent is concerned for what' best for their children that would be their focus.

 

Again, as I've stated many times now, I agree that first divorcing then having a new, loving relationship is ideal, but it is not one of the circumstances I've described in the original post.

[Henni]

If the cheater married the person they cheated with....my answer is the same.

 

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I did think this opinion was out there, that even if there's a divorce from a high conflict marriage, and subsequently a healthy loving relationship with a new person, some people think that it's better for the kids if they had stayed in the high conflict marriage. I assume this holds for you whether or not the kids and BS know about the affair?

[Henni]

As a child I would have felt much more secure in the presence of honest out in the open bickering than I ever would with a parent I had discovered lied to me and/or my other parent, carrying on a secret life. I wouldn't be able to trust that parent again.

 

Is a high conflict home something you've actually experienced?

[Spark1111]

I can imagine that children will mourn happier times between mom and dad, but, I can also imagine that many children whose parents were high conflict will also hold on to memories of the fear and tension they felt. Especially if there were no super happy times during their lifetime. No?

 

it depends....define happiness.

 

if you have no basis of comparison, it could take years, if not a lifetime, to know what our parents had is not the way it should be between two people. We may feel the tension as a child, not like the feeling.....but when would we realize that is NOT how it should be between mommy and daddy?

 

couple that with wanting our nuclear family intact, no matter what, which is called confirmation bias, it could TAKE YEARS to realize that what mom or dad has with their new partner is better, more loving.

 

Again, I am back to: As a child, why would I even care that mom or dad are happier with a new partner?

 

kids are ego-centric. The do not care about your personal romantic happiness.

 

Your comparative scenarios? I could deduce that with the wisdom of hindsight, introspection and adulthood.

 

as a child under the age of....22...I could not care less. Mommy and daddy together, toxic even, trumps all.

[Henni]

Yes because lying and cheating is wrong and that should not be set as the example on how to improve a situation. The affair is not a temporary thing. You don't suddenly get a do over and your relationship started honestly. It will always have started at the cost of hurting and lying and cheating others, no matter how happy you tell yourselves you are.

 

Some people, including me, might say that a high conflict marriage continues at the cost of hurting others, like the kids. It may also continue at the cost of the married couple's own happiness, but that's not the topic here.

[Furious]

Well, they are not cheating anymore once the marriage is over, that's a temporary thing while getting divorced.

 

Do you still think in those circumstances it's healthier for the kids to stay in a high conflict home?

 

 

The high conflict home was there before you came along, if the children are being subjected to dysfunction how is that the concerned parent who see's this takes the time to have an affair and prolong that dysfunction and distress by engaging in an affair.

 

How would that patent explain to their children that what's another 6 months or year of suffering to those very children while I get me some romance.

[bentnotbroken]

Ok, thanks for clarifying. I did think this opinion was out there, that even if there's a divorce from a high conflict marriage, and subsequently a healthy loving relationship with a new person, some people think that it's better for the kids if they had stayed in the high conflict marriage. I assume this holds for you whether or not the kids and BS know about the affair?

 

 

You gave two extreme choices with nothing in between. I answered based on "your" parameters (which by the way I felt was done to elicit a certain response...which I gave you). Do I feel this way....only in your scenario....nowhere else. By the way....I do not believe healthy loving people lie and deceive...but that is just me.