Not getting easier...omg

[BrokenPrincess]

I can sympathize. There are days that I will sit and rehash things he's said to me in an effort to convince myself that he misses & thinks of me too. And though it does suck to think that after d-day he regrets he'd ever met me, as time passes it becomes more and more comforting.

 

I thought this too during NC after Dday...it hurt me so much to imagine that he was sitting at home with his W regretting all the time we spent together.

 

I wished I would hear from him again and really believed I never would. But he did end up breaking NC after 4 months and hearing the reality of what he'd been thinking for the past few months was comforting in its own way. He may be a man, but he is still human and he did open up and share a relationship with you that isn't just turned off when the A ends. When he's out with a mutual friend or coworker or at a place you'd been together, he was thinking of you.

 

But at the end of the day, he's still married to someone else and breaking NC just makes it hurt so much all over again.

[SweetBella1]

I thought this too during NC after Dday...it hurt me so much to imagine that he was sitting at home with his W regretting all the time we spent together.

 

I wished I would hear from him again and really believed I never would. But he did end up breaking NC after 4 months and hearing the reality of what he'd been thinking for the past few months was comforting in its own way. He may be a man, but he is still human and he did open up and share a relationship with you that isn't just turned off when the A ends. When he's out with a mutual friend or coworker or at a place you'd been together, he was thinking of you.

 

But at the end of the day, he's still married to someone else and breaking NC just makes it hurt so much all over again.

 

Broken Princess, how long did your A last? And how did he contact you, via email?

[SweetBella1]

I spend far too much time wondering if he's thinking about me, missing me, hurting for me as I hurt for him. Sadly, we have dozens (maybe hundreds) of friends and acquaintences in common, so I have to hear things from a coworker like, "Hey, I was out with [AP] and [bS] last night! It was so fun!" and I completely die a million deaths inside.

 

But I've heard that sometimes the effect of a DDay, which he had and I did not, can actually eradicate the feelings for the AP in the person who has the DDay. They become so crushed at the thought of losing their spouse, the affair bubble bursts, and they retreat without looking back.

 

That thought kills me.

 

I've heard that too, about D Day shocking someone out of their feelings for the AP. They go into survival mode and it overrides everything else. But I also read something else. If a person has had a big impact on you, chances are great that you've also had a big impact on them too. There was a reason he wanted to be with you, there was a reason for it all and that doesn't die just because the affair is over. Unfortunately we're just kept guessing when there's NC.

 

Also, time will diminish some of the shock and stress he's under right now. When it does, it'll be easier for him to remember the good things.

[BrokenPrincess]

Broken Princess, how long did your A last? And how did he contact you, via email?

 

The A was 7 months, with 24/7 talking and PA. After DDay, it was 4 months NC until a strange # called me a couple times one week. He then out of the blue emailed me at work under a super platonic false pretense and asked if I could talk. I thought I was hallucianting when I saw his name in my inbox. It turned out the weird # was a prepaid phone he finally figure out as a safe way to contact me but then thought I might not be answering because I didn't recongize it.

 

We've been back in an EA underground for 2 months but the stress is much worse and the communication is much harder.

[SweetBella1]

Wow!

 

Here is the deal: If I broke up with someone and I knew she was pining for me it would be awful. Knowing that she is hurting for me would make my recovery very difficult because I woud have some hope.

 

OTOH, if I knew she was not thinking about me at all my recovery would be very fast because there would be no hope.

 

 

Pierre, I read this perspective of yours the other day and still find it interesting and contrary to most men I've known/dated. Maybe because I'm drawn to narcissistic buffoons? Or surrounded by them in my day to day life?

 

When you break up with a girl you must empathize a lot with her. (Sweet.) I can say that is not the norm, though, based on my brothers, male cousins, H, BILs, guy friends, etc. When all of them have been the "dumper" in breaking up with girls, they just don't spend a whole lot of time contemplating her feelings. They just want OUT. I've found that guys tend to be more impacted - and may become interested in the woman again - when they feel that the woman has moved on...that she's NOT pining. So it's interesting that the woman's behavior affects your recovery. That's not typical, from my years of experience and observation on the dating/love circuit.

 

OTOH, most of guys feel annoyed & push away a woman who is pining and clinging to him. He might feel suffocated, like "Get a life. We broke up." (A lot of my GFs would break NC and acted all heartbroken around the guy, and the guys were always like, Ew Go Away.) The more she pined, the less attractive she became to him, the quicker he could get over her. So opposite of your reaction. You're an interesting person!

 

Every boyfriend I ever had came back to me at some point, sniffing around for another chance. I feel that is because I'm a NC Queen, they don't ever see me pine and I don't crack. Ex MM might be the first who doesn't come back but that's because he's totally insecure and 500 Shades of Narcissistic.

Edited May 3, 2013 by SweetBella1

[jezebella]

Wow!

 

I read some of the above quotes and it made me very sad.

 

Here is the deal: If I broke up with someone and I knew she was pining for me it would be awful. Knowing that she is hurting for me would make my recovery very difficult because I woud have some hope.

 

OTOH, if I knew she was not thinking about me at all my recovery would be very fast because there would be no hope.

 

I think the above poster simply wants to be validated. And going through life seeking validation from others is pure hell.

 

My life is pure hell right now, but my life is not pure hell in general. I don't "go through life seeking validation from others," though I may want it right now from one person.

 

I have always found comfort in empathy. In breakups with boyfriends in the past, we might call to share our struggle in getting over each other, but that does not mean we got back together. It gave me solace because to me it meant that what we had was real, it mattered, it matters, and we are in it together - even through the breakup. I am still friends with all but one of my old boyfriends, and all my breakups were gentle, whether initiated by me or the boyfriend.

 

This is all unfamiliar and unpleasantly new to me. It's uncharted water. I have never been just cut off. I am honoring NC, and always will, but I struggle with promises he made to me about how we would end this, about getting closure, and about saying goodbye that he never honored.

[Praying4Peace]

SweetBella- I think Pierre was referring to a situation where he is the DUMPEE , not the DUMPER. If he is the DUMPEE and knows the girl isn't thinking of him, it's easier to move on bc you lose all hope. When a DUMPER sees a woman move on, he might second guess himself (as opposed to being turned off bc she is being pathetic and clingy).

 

In this case- we are DUMPEES so Pierre is saying its easier if we don't imagine him pining. Especially since A's are different and it didn't end bc one or the other got tired of each other (mostly). Ends on a high and all that.

 

Hope I interpreted that correctly.

[who_am_i]

Wow!

 

I read some of the above quotes and it made me very sad.

 

Here is the deal: If I broke up with someone and I knew she was pining for me it would be awful. Knowing that she is hurting for me would make my recovery very difficult because I woud have some hope.

 

OTOH, if I knew she was not thinking about me at all my recovery would be very fast because there would be no hope.

 

I think the above poster simply wants to be validated. And going through life seeking validation from others is pure hell.

 

 

Pierre

 

I guess I'm just a little confused. You state here that if you broke up with someone and knew they were hurting you too would hurt and have hope. But how can this be? Why would you break up then to begin with?

 

I feel like here on LS we are told things like...if he missed you he'd call, or...after the affair "fog" most MM grow to resent eventually their AP. Some BS say that their husbands laugh at the OW or find her pathetic as she was only being used.

 

Then I've read you tell some APs that their MM must have had feelings for them. That they compartmentalize to reconcile...but the feelings were true. Regardless...it's over.

 

So what's a girl to think? No one wants to think their xMM is laughing with their wife at APs expense over a lovely home cooked meal. I think this is what makes moving on so difficult...the possibilities are endless. We spend our time trying come up with the outcome of every potential scenario.

[SweetBella1]

Pierre

 

I guess I'm just a little confused. You state here that if you broke up with someone and knew they were hurting you too would hurt and have hope. But how can this be? Why would you break up then to begin with?

 

I feel like here on LS we are told things like...if he missed you he'd call, or...after the affair "fog" most MM grow to resent eventually their AP. Some BS say that their husbands laugh at the OW or find her pathetic as she was only being used.

 

Then I've read you tell some APs that their MM must have had feelings for them. That they compartmentalize to reconcile...but the feelings were true. Regardless...it's over.

 

So what's a girl to think? No one wants to think their xMM is laughing with their wife at APs expense over a lovely home cooked meal. I think this is what makes moving on so difficult...the possibilities are endless. We spend our time trying come up with the outcome of every potential scenario.

 

Well written.

 

You're right, we're given such conflicting information by kind, well-intentioned individuals...but it can leave us very confused. I've gained a lot of insight here on LS but the information/advice is subjective. We don't personally know each other (or the APs) so a lot of speculation takes place, so the info might not always apply. Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Some say, "He'll call" then others say "You meant nothing to him. He's already replaced you."

 

It's very easy to herd people into categories & reduce them to scripted outcomes. But humans are way more complex than that. And we don't really know the ppl involved, only written descriptions (also subjective.) Yes, some generalizations may prove accurate, but there are always exceptions. I have experienced it firsthand.

 

So I agree with you, your last sentence is exactly right. I conceptualize every possible aspect, variable & potential outcome. It's exhausting & heartbreaking, over & over. I'm planning to limit my LS time soon...it's time to stop fixating.

[SweetBella1]

I would not break up if everything is finer and dandy.

 

However, if I am dumped I want to be dumped with no hope. I want to be dumped knowing she is 100% done with me. In that manner I can move on very quickly.

 

 

 

If a woman dumps me, but gives me hope (by calling, pining for me, hesitating, etc) then my recovery is markedly delayed.

 

It is rather simple.

 

Now I get it. At least my xMM is making himself clear! (And me too, holding NC.)

[jezebella]

I'm not sure I am on the same page. I don't feel that I got "dumped," nor do I feel that I dumped him. We were deeply in the throes of the A with planned events, discussions of our future, love poems, and lots of contact when we were discovered. We had a week of progressive discoveries by his W, all of which he tried to explain away. The last was too damning. There was no explanation. The BS forced the NC - she deleted his accounts, cut him off. She made him call me on speakerphone to say it was over.

 

We had to see each other due to certain circumstances that were unavoidable for a couple days after, and we both were distraught. He told me he was in hell; that he loves me.

 

But we mutually agreed this was the right thing to do - there was no choice. If I had pushed, she'd have told my H. If he had done anything (she is very smart and found deeply buried things, things we thought were deleted, etc.), she would divorce him and he'd lose his family. Neither of us wanted that from the get-go; we always said our families would come first if anything happened. I do love my H; and he loves his W.

 

So we parted without any animosity between us, but not without a lot of hurt.

 

I am still in love, and my thoughts jump around irrationally. When I hear he's out and about, I start to think he's just forgotten about me. I don't know that this is true, and I never will. It could be completely false. But my brain can't stop running "scenarios." I am out and about too, and all I do is hurt for him, so this is all crazy thinking. I just come here to vent and seek support, knowing what I did was wrong; knowing that what's happening now is right; knowing that in time I'll heal; and knowing that at least some folks on here know exactly what I'm going through.

 

What scares me, and what I don't know, is what I'd do if he recontacted me, or if I'm truly immune from doing this again in the future. I hope the pain doesn't fade ala childbirth, and you think "that wasn't so bad, I can handle it next time around" (this from someone who had her children without drugs!). I truly hope I've internalized this huge life lesson.

[SweetBella1]

Exactly! This OM is doing you a huge favor.

 

 

You Keep me Hanging On

 

Set me free, why don't cha babe

Get out my life, why don't cha babe

'Cause you don't really love me

You just keep me hangin' on

You don't really need me

But you keep me hangin' on

 

 

It could be 100 times worse. Count your blessings.

 

It'll be a relief when I actually *feel* like he did me a favor, that this is all for the best. Unlike you, for me being dumped cold, left open hearted & vulnerable while he doesn't look back...that makes it *harder* for me to recover. It's ego diminishing AND heartbreaking. I am discarded & like Jezebella said above, not important enough to him. We had no looming D Day, we were doing fine, at the height of our A, totally smitten. Never in a million years did I think xMM was capable of cutting me off so unexpectedly & thoroughly. I obviously overestimated our connection or underestimated his emotional fragility/volatility. Probably both.

[jezebella]

Stop the future faking. It was fake. Does he loves you, yes, but this is insane love in another universe. Nothing more than a change in brain chemistry and you are addicted.

 

 

The wife has no special powers, she is not that powerful. Your guy simply wants to stay married.

 

Romantic Infidelity

 

Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continue living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate—someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own—is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your life, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.

 

Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/beyond-betrayal-life-after-infidelity

 

I agree he wanted to stay married; so do I. I have no illusions about that. The thought of losing my husband on dday when his wife could have told him made me pass out for the one and only time in my life. I'm still clinging to my H in ways I know confuse him.

 

I don't know what you mean about "future faking" (honestly). I just said we were deep into the A - neither of us were talking about cooling it off, or backing off. In fact, it was escalating, and I'm actually glad we didn't have a chance to take the further risks we were discussing. It was snowballing. Did I think it would last forever - of course not - but when you're in it, you don't think of the end, either.

 

The quote is VERY accurate, however, for where my head was. As I posted elsewhere, I had a trifecta of traumatic events and I can trace my urge to cheat directly to that point in time two years ago. I went into IC immediately, but it did nothing to prevent the A, nor did it help me get out of it. I'm still in it but I have to find another way. Someone listening and nodding and repeating what I say is really not moving the dial.

[SweetBella1]

This is so sad. An intelligent attractive woman basing her worth on the whims and desires of a pathetic, narcissistic, controlling, below her league philanderer. A classic POS. And yet, you base your worth on this???????

 

What??????????????????:eek:

 

I agree. It's ridiculous. I may stumble around after rejection but at the end of the day I do know my worth. It sounds supremely arrogant but when I think of myself as objectively as possible; who I am as a whole person inside and what I look like externally, then I think of xMM inside and out, it seems ludicrous. Yes he is physically attractive but his other qualities are so worrisome.

 

Comparing us as two separate people, strangers, outside of the A, it's just not a match. He could never snag me in a legitimate long term relationship...I don't do well with being controlled, obviously. But I was never thinking of him as husband material so I didn't want a super intense connection. That's why his demands for exclusivity and constant communication concerned me. I wasn't looking for another H, I was looking for a friend.

 

And you know what, Pierre, based on the insecurities he showed me, I suspect he felt that he was playing out of his league the whole time, probably a big reason why he's gone. I've read a lot about narcissism recently and if he's truly a narcissist/sociopath and/or has those tendencies, the moment he sensed trouble he'd actively seek to be the "rejector" vs waiting around to be rejected. I think he liked me a lot...why wouldn't he, I made him feel really really good! But he knew he was running the risk of getting rejected by someone out of his league. There is no way a narcissist will stick around and potentially allow anyone to diminish his manufactured ego, his grandiose self perception. It's the only thing he can count on.

 

That insipid secret profile, while benign in my eyes, was translated by xMM as an indicator that he might get dumped at some point. Didn't matter that I was spending all of my free time with him, and in contact with him all day, every day. He felt I must be looking for other guys to replace him. (And I can see how he would think that, but he had the choice to believe me that it wasn't the case, and stay.) But no, he left to pre-emptively escape an impending blow to his grandiosity.

 

Did you read your own testimony about how you functioned during the affair. That was a florid description of the most pathetic existence I have read in my life, You acted like a drug addict in the gutter and yet you yearn for that. The contradiction are staggering. Please wake up and use your brain.

 

Oh yes, I recall very well the subsistence of my life during the A and how it affected those around me. I often wondered how long I could possibly keep that up, just barely functioning in my "real" life and my BRAIN is grateful that it was only 3 months. However, my emotional side is most unreasonable.

 

Let me put it this way, my life seemed like it was in COLOR during the A (a jumbled up mess, but in COLOR) now my life seems black and white, colorless. That is just how it *feels*, not how it really is. I realize that. My life is not yet restored to its once organized clarity because while the A is over, I'm still withdrawing and subsequently not as productive and I can be. I think of this as rehab time...it's going to take a few months I think. I'll have a good day, I'll feel great about myself, think, "Boy, xMM was LUCKY that I gave him the time of day, let alone what all I did give him!" Then the next day I'll have a rough day and pine. It's not logical, it doesn't make sense and I can't wait until it's over.

 

I clearly see the issues here and wish I could feel differently, but for now this is how I feel and I suppose time will heal that. I write things in a journal to remind myself of the realities, and that helps.

 

I *was* an addict in an emotional gutter for three months. I am 3.5 weeks out from the A and I'd assume still under some type of subconscious delusion that xMM was doing me a favor by helping me escape my depression. You know how most drug addicts have dramatic stories that lead up to their addiction? Abuse, neglect, trauma....well those can lead up to an emotional & physical addictions too. And in that case, "use your brain" just doesn't snap people out of it. It takes rehab, therapy, and time. But tough love IS necessary to keep the right perspective. So I'm thankful that you're helping me.

 

You know that passage that you quoted above, about falling in love in order to escape depression? I know definitively that's what I was doing. We don't have enough bandwidth for me to describe the events of my life leading up to this A, but suffice it to say that I was desperately seeking any kind of escape from pervasive depression and anxiety. (And yes, I've been IC and antidepressants, all of it. I've tried all.of.it.)

 

Even my pop psych therapist said, "We need to figure out what void you were trying to fill, what sadness you were trying to escape, with this affair." The sad fact is that I know exactly what void I was trying to fill, what I was trying to escape. And it's never going to go away. I have to learn to live with the void, live with the sadness, until I die. I hadn't accepted that yet and the A was a pitiful attempt at escaping that reality. Obviously this phenomenon isn't not unheard of...after all it's being discussed in Psychology Today.

 

Sorry for being harsh, but I think you need a big wake up call.

 

I agree. I've gotten some really good wake calls, some from myself and many of them from you. I hear them in my foggy sleep, I recognize their validity. I can't wait until I wake up.

[ComingInHot]

jezzabella wrote, "... but it did nothing to prevent the A, nor did it help me get out of it. "

 

Both the strength & weakness of human will Never cases to amaze me.

[BrokenPrincess]

Let me put it this way, my life seemed like it was in COLOR during the A (a jumbled up mess, but in COLOR) now my life seems black and white, colorless. That is just how it *feels*, not how it really is. I realize that. My life is not yet restored to its once organized clarity because while the A is over, I'm still withdrawing and subsequently not as productive and I can be. I think of this as rehab time...it's going to take a few months I think. I'll have a good day, I'll feel great about myself, think, "Boy, xMM was LUCKY that I gave him the time of day, let alone what all I did give him!" Then the next day I'll have a rough day and pine. It's not logical, it doesn't make sense and I can't wait until it's over.

 

You articulated this much better than I could have. This is exactly how I felt...with MM, I felt like I was alive again. How can I get that with my H?

 

I agree he wanted to stay married; so do I. I have no illusions about that. The thought of losing my husband on dday when his wife could have told him made me pass out for the one and only time in my life. I'm still clinging to my H in ways I know confuse him.

 

Same here. After DDay I was physically sick with worry for a couple weeks about his W telling my H. Since we rekindled & heard she'd actually not ever even once brought my name up again after the initial days after, I don't feel that anxiety that he's going to confess or anything and that she'll want to talk to me or H.

 

However, I have been clinging to H today, desperate to feel better and desperate to feel with him what I did with MM.

[jezebella]

I agree. It's ridiculous. I may stumble around after rejection but at the end of the day I do know my worth. It sounds supremely arrogant but when I think of myself as objectively as possible; who I am as a whole person inside and what I look like externally, then I think of xMM inside and out, it seems ludicrous. Yes he is physically attractive but his other qualities are so worrisome.

 

Comparing us as two separate people, strangers, outside of the A, it's just not a match. He could never snag me in a legitimate long term relationship...I don't do well with being controlled, obviously. But I was never thinking of him as husband material so I didn't want a super intense connection. That's why his demands for exclusivity and constant communication concerned me. I wasn't looking for another H, I was looking for a friend.

 

Oh yes, I recall very well the subsistence of my life during the A and how it affected those around me. I often wondered how long I could possibly keep that up, just barely functioning in my "real" life and my BRAIN is grateful that it was only 3 months. However, my emotional side is most unreasonable.

 

Let me put it this way, my life seemed like it was in COLOR during the A (a jumbled up mess, but in COLOR) now my life seems black and white, colorless. That is just how it *feels*, not how it really is. I realize that. My life is not yet restored to its once organized clarity because while the A is over, I'm still withdrawing and subsequently not as productive and I can be. I think of this as rehab time...it's going to take a few months I think. I'll have a good day, I'll feel great about myself, think, "Boy, xMM was LUCKY that I gave him the time of day, let alone what all I did give him!" Then the next day I'll have a rough day and pine. It's not logical, it doesn't make sense and I can't wait until it's over.

 

I clearly see the issues here and wish I could feel differently, but for now this is how I feel and I suppose time will heal that. I write things in a journal to remind myself of the realities, and that helps.

 

I *was* an addict in an emotional gutter for three months. I am 3.5 weeks out from the A and I'd assume still under some type of subconscious delusion that xMM was doing me a favor by helping me escape my depression. You know how most drug addicts have dramatic stories that lead up to their addiction? Abuse, neglect, trauma....well those can lead up to an emotional & physical addictions too. And in that case, "use your brain" just doesn't snap people out of it. It takes rehab, therapy, and time. But tough love IS necessary to keep the right perspective. So I'm thankful that you're helping me.

 

You know that passage that you quoted above, about falling in love in order to escape depression? I know definitively that's what I was doing. We don't have enough bandwidth for me to describe the events of my life leading up to this A, but suffice it to say that I was desperately seeking any kind of escape from pervasive depression and anxiety. (And yes, I've been IC and antidepressants, all of it. I've tried all.of.it.)

 

Even my pop psych therapist said, "We need to figure out what void you were trying to fill, what sadness you were trying to escape, with this affair." The sad fact is that I know exactly what void I was trying to fill, what I was trying to escape. And it's never going to go away. I have to learn to live with the void, live with the sadness, until I die. I hadn't accepted that yet and the A was a pitiful attempt at escaping that reality. Obviously this phenomenon isn't not unheard of...after all it's being discussed in Psychology Today.

 

 

 

I agree. I've gotten some really good wake calls, some from myself and many of them from you. I hear them in my foggy sleep, I recognize their validity. I can't wait until I wake up.

 

 

Though our A's were different, we are completely alike in how we felt about them, and how they've affected our lives. It's both comforting and shocking to me. Email me if you want to share more - I sent you a quick note.

 

And FWIW, I was also "out of my AP's league," which he said on many occasions. When I would think about being exposed, I would often think how embarrassed I'd be for our mutual friends to find out. I knew they'd think "how in the world is SHE with HIM??" He was also a narcissist and known egomaniac. And I am way better looking as a woman than he is as a man.